Ukraine: What's the big deal?

[Zavulon]

BS Ivan. Its been about ocean front property since day 1

But even if accept the point of view that all wars are about "ocean front property" there is the difference between motivations of "raid in foreign lands" - "we are searching balance between losses and incomes, and incomes should be larger than losses", "elimination of a threat" - "they want to kill us and take our property, and we collectively defend ourselves", "war-rebellion" - "they rule us wrong way, and we have right to fight against this government" and "war counter-rebellion" - "they rebel against our rule, and we have right to supress this violation of order".


And from this basic motivations most of conflicts are raising. But those conflicts are different and motivations of participating sidies are different. Like, you know, there were differences between American Revolutionary War, Indian Wars, American-Mexican war, American Civil War, American participation in Philippine's conflict, WWII, Caribbean Missile Crisis, Vietnam war, War on Terror and so on...

 

[Ringo]

The British were outraged by the reconstruction of Mariupol. What a bunch of jerks...

Access Restricted

 

[Ringo]

 

[Ringo]

The Russian language, spoken by a significant number, and in fact the majority in Ukraine, was systematically destroyed.

There was no single line saying “ban Russian.”
There was a machine.

-Russian schools were closed.
-Russian media was purged.
-Books without translation were banned.
-Fines were introduced for speaking Russian.
-People were fired for speaking Russian.
-Russian was pushed out of courts and government agencies.

This is not politics.
This is linguistic cleansing.

Russian was made marginal.
Russian speakers were made second-class citizens.

Without gas chambers.
Through fines, pressure, and fear.

This is what “European democracy” looks like.

 

[Deadstick]

The Russian language, spoken by a significant number, and in fact the majority in Ukraine, was systematically destroyed.

There was no single line saying “ban Russian.”
There was a machine.

-Russian schools were closed.
-Russian media was purged.
-Books without translation were banned.
-Fines were introduced for speaking Russian.
-People were fired for speaking Russian.
-Russian was pushed out of courts and government agencies.

This is not politics.
This is linguistic cleansing.

Russian was made marginal.
Russian speakers were made second-class citizens.

Without gas chambers.
Through fines, pressure, and fear.

This is what “European democracy” looks like.

They even banned history books that didn't give the Nationalist bullshit view of history, even Russian classics were taken off the shelves.

 

[Zavulon]

The Russian language, spoken by a significant number, and in fact the majority in Ukraine, was systematically destroyed.

There was no single line saying “ban Russian.”
There was a machine.

-Russian schools were closed.
-Russian media was purged.
-Books without translation were banned.
-Fines were introduced for speaking Russian.
-People were fired for speaking Russian.
-Russian was pushed out of courts and government agencies.

This is not politics.
This is linguistic cleansing.

Russian was made marginal.
Russian speakers were made second-class citizens.

Without gas chambers.
Through fines, pressure, and fear.

This is what “European democracy” looks like.

And the most effective ukrainisator was your beloved Soviet and post-Soviet bureaucracy. At the free market (when it was more or less free between 1991-2014) fiction books, music concerts and TV shows were at least 90% Russian. "Bablo pobejdaet zlo" (Money defeat evil) as they say.

 

[Ringo]

They even banned history books that didn't give the Nationalist bullshit view of history, even Russian classics were taken off the shelves.

The ukrainian government did not recognize russian (which is known by 95% of Ukraine's population, except for the most backward peasants) as the second official language, but instead recognized english, which almost no one knows.
“What idiots!” you might say.
“No, an anti-people government,” I would reply.