Ukraine drained US stockpiles

[Mac-7]

Tell me when the US recognized Taiwan as a sovereign nation.

We havent done so yet

But probably will if war breaks out

Its only the threat of war with china that prevents acknowledgement of Taiwan sovereignty now

 

[ESay]

We havent done so yet

But probably will if war breaks out

Its only the threat of war with china that prevents acknowledgement of Taiwan sovereignty now

If you will not, the war won't break out. I think that even if you will, the war won't start immediately. China will spend another 5, 10 or 50 years or how much is needed to get prepared for that. They will take their time, and the will crush the island.

 

[Zavulon]

I dont foresee a large ground war with china

Did you foresee any of the current conflicts?

Where would this war take place?

For example, in Texas, California, New Mexico, Arizona, Nevada, Utah, Colorado and part of Wyoming, invaded by Mexico (and backed with BRICS). Proxy war with Russia, China and more or less united Latin America.

There is no sensible scenario where that would happen

Really? It's just your lack of fantasy.

 

[Zavulon]

Well, as much as I despise them for this their 'strategy' , I should agree that they are correct about it, from their point of view. As I said above, if there are idiots who are ready to fight a war for them, they don't need to change anything. Slowly fuel this war, and watch how your rival wastes people and recourses on it.

And just allow Russians, at the certain point, attack the USA directly.

 

[AZrailwhale]

Why are you bragging about these figures? Your goal was a genocide of the North Koreans and Chinese? I suppose that not. Despite heavy loses and a scorched land tactic employed by the US, the North managed to end this war with a draw.

Vietnam. After a humiliating treaty, there was a humiliating retreat. Then again, after a scorched land tactic. The Vietnam war was a disgrace for the US. You had better forget it, not bragging about.

Those numbers were all COMBAT TROOPS, not civilians. The armed North Koreans and Chinese got their butts kicked.

 

[AZrailwhale]

My bet is the Chinese tactics will be sea and aerial blockade of the island, eliminating military targets there, and after that a landing operation.

That is, if they decided to resolve this issue by military force.

China can’t blockade Taiwan. Any PLAN surface ships will be sunk by either Taiwanese AirPower, or Taiwanese, Korean or Japanese diesel electric subs IF the US decides to stay out of the war. If the US enters the PLAN will join the Russian Black Sea fleet as artificial reefs, the PLAN is a frigate navy without the ability to project power over the horizon of China’s shores,

 

[AZrailwhale]

With all its internal problems, I can’t see China lasting another ten years.

 

[ESay]

Those numbers were all COMBAT TROOPS, not civilians. They armed North Koreans and Chinese got their butts kicked.

The number of civilian casualties was also huge.

 

[ESay]

China can’t blockade Taiwan. And PLAN surface ships will be sunk by either Taiwanese AirPower, or Taiwanese, Korean or Japanese diesel electric subs IF the US decides to stay out of the war. If the US enters the PLAN will join the Russian Black Sea fleet as artificial reefs, the PLAN is a frigate navy without the ability to project power over the horizon of China’s shores,

All that is wishful-thinking. America's combat history isn't that impressive at all. It is more about buffoonery and propaganda.

 

[AZrailwhale]

All that is wishful-thinking. America's combat history isn't that impressive at all. It is more about buffoonery and propaganda.

Contrast that to China and Russia. China has NO naval combat history and the USSR's navy essentially rusted at its moorings in WWII with the exception of a few Italian designed destroyers that provided coastal escorts for the Murmansk convoys on the last leg of their journey. Neither have any history of blue-water warfare. In the Russo-Japanese War both Russian fleets were destroyed with little loss by the Japanese who couldn't even build their own warships at the time.

 

[ESay]

Contrast that to China and Russia. China has NO naval combat history and the USSR's navy essentially rusted at its moorings in WWII with the exception of a few Italian designed destroyers that provided coastal escorts for the Murmansk convoys on the last leg of their journey. Neither have any history of blue-water warfare. In the Russo-Japanese War both Russian fleets were destroyed with little loss by the Japanese who couldn't even build their own warships at the time.

I don't think Russia will directly take part in a war there. So, it is irrelevant. About China and their Navy capabilities, who knows. If China imposes a blockade against Taiwan, will the US intervene? If as an asymmetrical measure the North Koreans start a war against the South, will the US intervene? It shouldn't be forget that both China and the Kims already have a nuclear weapon. Will it be all worth that? Or Taiwan rejoining China on some sort of a Hong Kong scenario will be a lesser evil? Too many questions.

 

[AZrailwhale]

I don't think Russia will directly take part in a war there. So, it is irrelevant. About China and their Navy capabilities, who knows. If China imposes a blockade against Taiwan, will the US intervene? If as an asymmetrical measure the North Koreans start a war against the South, will the US intervene? It shouldn't be forget that both China and the Kims already have a nuclear weapon. Will it be all worth that? Or Taiwan rejoining China on some sort of a Hong Kong scenario will be a lesser evil? Too many questions.

The Chinese burned that possibility when they reneged on the agreement to allow Hong Kong independent government. The Taiwanese aren't going to trust China and will fight. If China goes to war with Taiwan, even if it wins, all it will get is a ruined island full of people angry with the invaders.

 

[Zavulon]

The Chinese burned that possibility when they reneged on the agreement to allow Hong Kong independent government. The Taiwanese aren't going to trust China and will fight. If China goes to war with Taiwan, even if it wins, all it will get is a ruined island full of people angry with the invaders.

Actually, a bit more than 50% of Taiwanese voted for pro-continental parties. And, even DPP declared that there will be no "Ukrainian scenario" (basically it means that they are not going to allow Americans "defend" Taiwan as they "defended" Ukraine).

 

[ESay]

The Chinese burned that possibility when they reneged on the agreement to allow Hong Kong independent government. The Taiwanese aren't going to trust China and will fight. If China goes to war with Taiwan, even if it wins, all it will get is a ruined island full of people angry with the invaders.

Yes, Beijing compromised itself with its Hong Kong policy, but the Taiwanese may not have too much choice, after all.

I don't know how this war may look like. Maybe it won't be a war with thousands missiles involved. Economic pressure, blockade, limited operations inside the island to cause disruptions and chaos. Don't forget that almost a half of people there can be called pro-Chinese. So, maybe inciting some form of a civil war there. 'A thousand cuts' tactics, in other words.

 

[Zavulon]

Yes, Beijing compromised itself with its Hong Kong policy, but the Taiwanese may not have too much choice, after all.

Everybody has the choice.

I don't know how this war may look like. Maybe it won't be a war with thousands missiles involved. Economic pressure, blockade, limited operations inside the island to cause disruptions and chaos. Don't forget that almost a half of people there can be called pro-Chinese.

Actually, 97% of Taiwan population are Chinese. The difference between CCP and DPP are hardly more significant that the difference between "Sluga Naroda" and "Edinaya Rossia".

So, maybe inciting some form of a civil war there. 'A thousand cuts' tactics, in other words.

If corse it will be a civil war. Taiwan is just a rebellious part of China, as Donbass was a rebellious part of Ukraine (or post-Maidan Ukraine is a rebellious part of Russia).

 

[AZrailwhale]

This statement "Actually, 97% of Taiwan population are Chinese. The difference between CCP and DPP are hardly more significant that the difference between "Sluga Naroda" and "Edinaya Rossia"." is where your entire view of the world is not only wrong, but evil. If the figure of 97% is correct, it doesn't matter because those are ETHNIC CHINESE. The only actual Chinese living in Taiwanese are a few immigrants. That evil view is how you justify your invasions of Georgia and Ukraine. It's also how you justify your imaginary invasion of the USA by Latin America since a large portion of our population are of Latin American heritage while only thirty million or so are actual Latin Americans, combining legal and illegal immigrants. The USA could use the same logic to invade and conquer Canada since a fairly large portion of the Canadian population are descended from slaves transported there by the Underground Railway and boys who fled there to avoid the Vietnam era draft. China could use the same logic to invade and conquer Siberia since a large portion of the residents are either ethnic Chinese, or actual Chinese illegal immigrants.

 

[whitehall]

How do you get rid of old junk haz-mat explosives? Send it to Ukraine. At least they re good for something.

 

[Mushroom]

We havent done so yet

Actually we did, until 1979. Before then it was kinda hazy, as we officially recognized Taiwan but the PRC refused to deal with the US because of that. But that started to thaw after Nixon's trip.

Until that point, the US had a "Two China Policy", where we recognized both nations. However, under pressure from the PRC, Jimmy Carter changed that and we went to the "One China Policy" that we have today.

Personally, while I have mixed opinions of the Carter Administration, this was probably the worst thing that happened during his entire administration. And I wish that some President in the future would return to the US to a Two China Policy. It absolutely boggles my mind that a foreign nation that is not even an ally was able to bully the US into ending official diplomatic relations with another nation.

For myself, I believe strongly that we need to once again confer full status to Taiwan. It has been over 70 freaking years, enough of the stupid games already. Trying to pretend they are anything other than a full nation is only crap done to ease the butthurt of China. And if China does not like it, as far as I am concerned they can go piss on a rope. But to me, those that deny that Taiwan is an actual nation are the same kinds of people that deny Ukraine is an actual nation.

It is mostly a form of mental illness.

 

[Mushroom]

The Chinese burned that possibility when they reneged on the agreement to allow Hong Kong independent government.

To be honest, I am simply one of those that does not trust the PRC.

Of course, I am also old enough to remember Tiananmen Square, and watching Nixon in China. And one thing I have learned after many decades is that they are right there with North Korea and the Soviet Union/Russia when it comes to making promises, then turning right around and crapping on those promises if they think it is to their benefit (and to be fair there, the USSR had a reputation for crapping on their own citizens, but almost meticulously abiding to international treaties).

What many likely are not aware of, is at that time in the late 1980s, both the Soviet Union and PRC were undergoing a time of almost radical "Liberalization". While the Soviets had Mikhail Gorbachev, the PRC had a very similarly minded Hu Yaobang. A man who like Gorby wanted to push through reforms, and turn the nation into an actual modernized political Democracy. He was still a fervent Communist, but he believed that the party should maintain control not through force, but by the will of the people themselves. This did not sit well with the hardliners, and in January 1987 he was forced by the hardliners to resign.

This is what actually led to the 1989 protests, primarily by students that believed in Hu and wanted to see his policies enacted. Like Hu the majority were Communists, but simply wanted more of a say in their actual government. The protests themselves started off when on 8 April 1989 Hu suffered a heart attack, then kicked into high gear when he died on 15 April. The actual protests started as memorial vigils, but then mutated into trying to push for more support for his ideals.

One thing that often confuses many about my beliefs is that I do not actually have anything against Communism (although I do have a hatred of Marxism). I do not care if a government is Communist, Fascist, Theocratic, Monarchist, or a Meritocracy, Democracy, or Republic. Just so long as the people have a say in how things are run and no groups are exploited or oppressed. And towards the end of the 1980s both the USSR and CCP appeared to be moving in those directions, until the hardliners tried to step in and turn the clock back three decades. One of those events literally ended the nation, the other led to four decades of oppression that is still ongoing to this day.

 

[Mac-7]

Actually we did, until 1979. Before then it was kinda hazy, as we officially recognized Taiwan but the PRC refused to deal with the US because of that. But that started to thaw after Nixon's trip.

Until that point, the US had a "Two China Policy", where we recognized both nations. However, under pressure from the PRC, Jimmy Carter changed that and we went to the "One China Policy" that we have today.

Personally, while I have mixed opinions of the Carter Administration, this was probably the worst thing that happened during his entire administration. And I wish that some President in the future would return to the US to a Two China Policy. It absolutely boggles my mind that a foreign nation that is not even an ally was able to bully the US into ending official diplomatic relations with another nation.

For myself, I believe strongly that we need to once again confer full status to Taiwan. It has been over 70 freaking years, enough of the stupid games already. Trying to pretend they are anything other than a full nation is only crap done to ease the butthurt of China. And if China does not like it, as far as I am concerned they can go piss on a rope. But to me, those that deny that Taiwan is an actual nation are the same kinds of people that deny Ukraine is an actual nation.

It is mostly a form of mental illness.

I dont know how china would react were Taiwan to declare independence and the US recognize them

It would be ugly, but actual war would depend on whether china thinks they can win

If we keep a strong navy that helps keep the peace