Ukraine Agrees to 30 Day Ceasefire; Rubio Will Take the Deal to Russia

[AveMarica]

Nothing but games. And insults.

Yep, that is what you came into the thread with. The rest of us just have to bear you.

 

[sealybobo]

Pointing out this war has not ended is not whining, you saying that just tells everyone you're uncomfortable with the subject so must attack blindly.



This is false, you're inventing extreme opinions for others.



Yet another false dilemma fallacy, good job!



Hah and this is what your entire schtick is about. Hero worship.



No games here, just pointing out the war isn't over and now enjoying pointing out the flaws in your low-IQ responses.

One way to end the war is give Russia everything it wants. Should Ukraine do that to "end the war?"

And Trump acts like the only other alternative is WW3. If Ukraine doesn't give up, they are risking WW3! Trump says.

How about they keep fighting because Russia is 100% wrong. Russia invaded. Of course we can't say much after we invaded a sovereign nation ourselves in 2003.

 

[Correll]

One way to end the war is give Russia everything it wants. Should Ukraine do that to "end the war?"

Nope. The only people saying that are russians and lying leftards.

And Trump acts like the only other alternative is WW3. If Ukraine doesn't give up, they are risking WW3! Trump says.

RISKING ww3, is not implying that that is the only other alternative. It is saying it is a risk.

And it is a risk. We should discuss the risks of a policy when we discuss the policy. But you lied about what the comment meant, so that you could AVOID discussing the risk while you argue in favor of the policy.

That is pretty shitty of you. Especially when people are dying in large numbers AND ww3 is a real risk that is on the table.

How about they keep fighting because Russia is 100% wrong. Russia invaded. Of course we can't say much after we invaded a sovereign nation ourselves in 2003.

That is another option. Sure. Of course, what if they run out of men? Losing everything is a real risk if they keep fighting.

Not to mention, ejecting russia seems very, very unlikely. So, what exactly are they fighting for?

 

[AveMarica]

One way to end the war is give Russia everything it wants. Should Ukraine do that to "end the war?"

And Trump acts like the only other alternative is WW3. If Ukraine doesn't give up, they are risking WW3! Trump says.

How about they keep fighting because Russia is 100% wrong. Russia invaded. Of course we can't say much after we invaded a sovereign nation ourselves in 2003

Of course not for various reasons including keeping some tech out of foreign hands and needing to retain its own stock of weapons to maintain their own warfighting goals. However ATACMs are quite old are in the process of being replaced by PrSM, they should have been made available immediately instead of dilly dallying for two years. He shouldn't have hamstrung Ukraine with limitations on being allowed to fire into Russian territory, which Russia used to great advantage. He should have approved armor M-1s and M-2s earlier instead of waiting, Ukraine could have used that to better exploit their gains in late 2022. He should have allowed the F-16s much earlier. Either commit to it or don't.

Subject I'm commenting on that you responded to = Biden being timid in Ukraine. WhataboutTrump doesn't change that.

Yes, they should keep fighting because Russia is 100% wrong and Russia invaded. That fighting would have been more in favor of Ukraine if Biden wasn't so timid.

Furthermore, Trump should approve JASSM for Ukraine. USA still has hundreds of the older shorter range versions of JASSM in their stocks and LM is producing over 700/year of the newer JASSM-ER. Ship the older JASSMs to Ukraine, they would love to add a big batch of 230 mile range cruise missiles with 1,000lb warheads added to their arsenal.

 

[sealybobo]

Of course not for various reasons including keeping some tech out of foreign hands and needing to retain its own stock of weapons to maintain their own warfighting goals. However ATACMs are quite old are in the process of being replaced by PrSM, they should have been made available immediately instead of dilly dallying for two years. He shouldn't have hamstrung Ukraine with limitations on being allowed to fire into Russian territory, which Russia used to great advantage. He should have approved armor M-1s and M-2s earlier instead of waiting, Ukraine could have used that to better exploit their gains in late 2022. He should have allowed the F-16s much earlier. Either commit to it or don't.

Subject I'm commenting on that you responded to = Biden being timid in Ukraine. WhataboutTrump doesn't change that.

Yes, they should keep fighting because Russia is 100% wrong and Russia invaded. That fighting would have been more in favor of Ukraine if Biden wasn't so timid.

Furthermore, Trump should approve JASSM for Ukraine. USA still has hundreds of the older shorter range versions of JASSM in their stocks and LM is producing over 700/year of the newer JASSM-ER. Ship the older JASSMs to Ukraine, they would love to add a big batch of 230 mile range cruise missiles with 1,000lb warheads added to their arsenal.

Republicans would have said Biden was starting WW3.

So let's see if Trump does what you are saying he should do. OR, will Russia and Trump split up Ukraine 50 20%?

 

[AveMarica]

Republicans would have said Biden was starting WW3.

Again, I'm not interested in political scorecards like you are so I don't care what someone said.

I'm talking about Biden's approach to Ukraine, his actions, and his decisions.

So let's see if Trump does what you are saying he should do. OR, will Russia and Trump split up Ukraine 50 20%?

Whatever Trump does will not change what Biden did, you can try to divert the discussion to Trump whataboutism in every single response, it doesn't change that I'm talking about Biden's actions regarding Ukraine.

You wanted to know what Biden could have done that might have affected the war in a way that would have been more positive and I told you. Biden was very supportive of Ukraine but he was overly cautious on delivery of many weapon systems that could have made a huge difference.

 

[sealybobo]

Again, I'm not interested in political scorecards like you are so I don't care what someone said.

I'm talking about Biden's approach to Ukraine, his actions, and his decisions.



Whatever Trump does will not change what Biden did, you can try to divert the discussion to Trump whataboutism in every single response, it doesn't change that I'm talking about Biden's actions regarding Ukraine.

You wanted to know what Biden could have done that might have affected the war in a way that would have been more positive and I told you. Biden was very supportive of Ukraine but he was overly cautious on delivery of many weapon systems that could have made a huge difference.

Overly cautious for a reason. In Biden's last days, knowing Trump would not support Ukraine, the U.S. finally allowed Ukraine to use American-supplied longer-range weapons to conduct strikes inside Russian territory, a long-sought request by Kyiv.

The U.S. had long opposed the move, with Biden determined to avoid any escalation that he felt could draw the U.S. into direct conflict with Russia. The Kremlin warned that the decision added “fuel to the fire.”

The decision comes in the waning days of Joe Biden’s presidency, before Trump took over, who has said he would bring about a swift end to the war that many fear could force unpalatable concessions from Kyiv.

Biden was being careful not to start WW3 without giving Russia what it wants. Trump's going to give Russia what it wants.

 

[Thunderbird]

Looks like this stupid, avoidable war is finally coming to a close.

https://thehill.com/opinion/5198022-ukraine-conflict-disinformation/

The neocon chicken hawks are screeching with anger.

 

[AveMarica]

Overly cautious for a reason. In Biden's last days, knowing Trump would not support Ukraine, the U.S. finally allowed Ukraine to use American-supplied longer-range weapons to conduct strikes inside Russian territory, a long-sought request by Kyiv.

Too cautious. Many weapons he eventually got around to permitting should have been done earlier, and his hesitancy cost lives and territory.

The Kremlin warned that the decision added “fuel to the fire.”

The Kremlin has warned that about everything, yet whenever the latest "red line" was crossed by Biden deciding to commit more it turned out to be just more empty Russian threats. Biden fell for it again and again.

Biden was being careful not to start WW3 without giving Russia what it wants.

He gave Russia what they wanted, a President too wishy washy to send the arms Ukraine needed without first mullling it over for months or years.

 

[sealybobo]

Too cautious. Many weapons he eventually got around to permitting should have been done earlier, and his hesitancy cost lives and territory.


The Kremlin has warned that about everything, yet whenever the latest "red line" was crossed by Biden deciding to commit more it turned out to be just more empty Russian threats. Biden fell for it again and again.



He gave Russia what they wanted, a President too wishy washy to send the arms Ukraine needed without first mullling it over for months or years.

What do you think of all the Republicans who would have said Biden was WRONG for doing what you are suggesting?

Luckily for us Trump's handling this now.

Russia strikes Ukraine hospital hours after Trump says Putin agreed to halt attacks on infrastructure​

Russia launched a series of drone strikes that struck civilian areas overnight and damaged a hospital in Ukraine following a phone call between Presidents Trump and Putin during which the Russian leader refused to back a full 30-day ceasefire. Trump had said that Putin agreed during the call to immediately halt attacks "on all energy and infrastructure" in Ukraine.

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy said Wednesday, however, that Russia's attacks continued to hit his country's civilian and energy infrastructure, despite Putin's purported agreement with Mr. Trump.

Mr. Trump and Zelenskyy spoke by phone for roughly an hour Wednesday morning, with the U.S. leader describing the call as "very good."

"Much of the discussion was based on the call made yesterday with President Putin in order to align both Russia and Ukraine in terms of their requests and needs. We are very much on track," he said in a statement on Truth Social.

Doesn't sound like Trump is taking any of your advice.

 

[sealybobo]

Too cautious. Many weapons he eventually got around to permitting should have been done earlier, and his hesitancy cost lives and territory.


The Kremlin has warned that about everything, yet whenever the latest "red line" was crossed by Biden deciding to commit more it turned out to be just more empty Russian threats. Biden fell for it again and again.



He gave Russia what they wanted, a President too wishy washy to send the arms Ukraine needed without first mullling it over for months or years.

Remember, Biden was trying to prevent WW3.

Trump to Zelenskyy: ‘You’re gambling with World War III’​

If that's true, then so would Biden have been had he given Ukraine more weapons that btw, Republicans did not want to give.

 

[AveMarica]

Remember, Biden was trying to prevent WW3.

Trump to Zelenskyy: ‘You’re gambling with World War III’​

If that's true, then so would Biden have been had he given Ukraine more weapons that btw, Republicans did not want to give.

I'm not doubting Biden's motivations, I'm doubting his decisions. They were poor.

For at least the 10th time, I'm not interested in what you say the Republicans would do, I'm here discussing what Biden did.

 

[AveMarica]

What do you think of all the Republicans who would have said Biden was WRONG for doing what you are suggesting?

I don't care what the Republicans would have said, we're discussing what Biden did. You don't seem capable of doing that without trying to steer the conversation towards political scoring.

Luckily for us Trump's handling this now.

What Trump does now does not change that Biden made poor decisions by holding back and being intimidated by the "red line" threats.

Doesn't sound like Trump is taking any of your advice.

I'm talking about Biden.

 

[sealybobo]

I'm not doubting Biden's motivations, I'm doubting his decisions. They were poor.

For at least the 10th time, I'm not interested in what you say the Republicans would do, I'm here discussing what Biden did.

Biden should have done what Trump's doing. Telling Reporters that he's "very angry at Putin". "pissed off". Let's see if his threats scare Putin

“If Russia and I are unable to make a deal on stopping the bloodshed in Ukraine, and if I think it was Russia’s fault — which it might not be — but if I think it was Russia’s fault, I am going to put secondary tariffs on oil, on all oil coming out of Russia,”

“If you buy oil from Russia, you can’t do business in the United States,” Trump said. “There will be a 25% tariff on all oil, a 25- to 50-point tariff on all oil.”

Biden already banned Russian oil imports. Since then, the amount of Russian oil imported to the US has plummeted, to only 10,000 barrels of Russian crude oil and petroleum products in 2023

A few of the top importers of Russian oil products include China, Turkey, Brazil and India. They could be among the countries seeing impacts of secondary tariffs.

Let's see if China, Turkey, Brazil and India are scared. Seems Trump's picking a fight with everyone. Reminds me of someone. Who? Hitler!

 

[AveMarica]

Biden should have done what Trump's doing. Telling Reporters that he's "very angry at Putin". "pissed off". Let's see if his threats scare Putin

“If Russia and I are unable to make a deal on stopping the bloodshed in Ukraine, and if I think it was Russia’s fault — which it might not be — but if I think it was Russia’s fault, I am going to put secondary tariffs on oil, on all oil coming out of Russia,”

“If you buy oil from Russia, you can’t do business in the United States,” Trump said. “There will be a 25% tariff on all oil, a 25- to 50-point tariff on all oil.”

I'm talking about what Biden did making poor decisions in slow walking needed weapon systems to Ukraine.

I've already noted you attempt to distract by making the conversation about Trump, it won't work.

Biden already banned Russian oil imports. Since then, the amount of Russian oil imported to the US has plummeted, to only 10,000 barrels of Russian crude oil and petroleum products in 2023

A few of the top importers of Russian oil products include China, Turkey, Brazil and India. They could be among the countries seeing impacts of secondary tariffs.

Let's see if China, Turkey, Brazil and India are scared. Seems Trump's picking a fight with everyone. Reminds me of someone. Who? Hitler

Yes, Biden did well in banning energy imports from Russia.

What he did poorly in was waiting so long to approve M-1 tanks, M-2 apcs, ATACMs, F-16s, etc.

 

[sealybobo]

I'm talking about what Biden did making poor decisions in slow walking needed weapon systems to Ukraine.

I've already noted you attempt to distract by making the conversation about Trump, it won't work.



Yes, Biden did well in banning energy imports from Russia.

What he did poorly in was waiting so long to approve M-1 tanks, M-2 apcs, ATACMs, F-16s, etc.

You assholes questioned even helping Ukraine. And Biden had to deal with Congress. And he didn’t want to piss putin off so he uses nukes.

Diplomacy

Are republicans sending all these things to Ukraine or are they slow walking our help? How’s that war going btw?

 

[AveMarica]

You assholes questioned even helping Ukraine. And Biden had to deal with Congress. And he didn’t want to piss putin off so he uses nukes.

I'm not talking about whoever you are saying questioning it, I'm questioning what Biden actually did. Your 12th attempt at a red herring has failed.

Biden did not have to get congressional approval to approve weapon systems, and all those weapons systems were eventually delivered without anyone using nukes.

Diplomacy

Are republicans sending all these things to Ukraine or are they slow walking our help? How’s that war going btw?

The republicans weren't the ones making decisions on what to send when Biden was President. Your 13th attempt at a red herring has also failed.

 

[Edgetho]

I'm not talking about whoever you are saying questioning it, I'm questioning what Biden actually did. Your 12th attempt at a red herring has failed.

Biden did not have to get congressional approval to approve weapon systems, and all those weapons systems were eventually delivered without anyone using nukes.


The republicans weren't the ones making decisions on what to send when Biden was President. Your 13th attempt at a red herring has also failed.

You realize you're arguing with a troll (paid or otherwise), don't you?

 

[sealybobo]

Again, I'm not interested in political scorecards like you are so I don't care what someone said.

I'm talking about Biden's approach to Ukraine, his actions, and his decisions.



Whatever Trump does will not change what Biden did, you can try to divert the discussion to Trump whataboutism in every single response, it doesn't change that I'm talking about Biden's actions regarding Ukraine.

You wanted to know what Biden could have done that might have affected the war in a way that would have been more positive and I told you. Biden was very supportive of Ukraine but he was overly cautious on delivery of many weapon systems that could have made a huge difference.

Are you saying Russia wouldn't have invaded Ukraine if Trump was POTUS. We know that's not true because when Trump was trying to end the Ukraine war, Putin bombed the shit out of Ukraine and all Trump did was say Putin is crazy and maybe I should walk away and let them fight it out.

And if it is true that Putin wouldn't have invaded if Trump was POTUS, then Israel would not have bombed Iran if Kamala was president.

Trump is going to get us into WW3, idiot.

 

[CowboyTed]

Are you saying Russia wouldn't have invaded Ukraine if Trump was POTUS. We know that's not true because when Trump was trying to end the Ukraine war, Putin bombed the shit out of Ukraine and all Trump did was say Putin is crazy and maybe I should walk away and let them fight it out.

And if it is true that Putin wouldn't have invaded if Trump was POTUS, then Israel would not have bombed Iran if Kamala was president.

Trump is going to get us into WW3, idiot.

Putin invaded Ukraine because he wrongly assumed that NATO was to fragmented to give a response... Putin was dead wrong.

He didn't do it during Trump Presidency because he knows it would have weakened Trump. Putin wants Trump in power, Trump at an international level is considered weak... Trump is usually not prepared and doesn't understand issues. He doesn't even know who his allies are and is a bit of a sucker to flattery and expensive gifts..

As the they say in EU right now, US isn't a serious country... You can't have serious conversations with someone who is not serious.. Trump is generally ignorant of the subjects at hand and his staff are there just to please him, not inform him, tell him consequences,... Thus not serious.