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November 4, 2007
A Battle Rages in London Over a Mega-Mosque Plan
By JANE PERLEZ
LONDON Disputes over mosques have broken out across Europe. Residents from Belgium to France to Germany have expressed unease at minarets competing in the urban landscape with the spires and stones of centuries-old cathedrals.
But the fight raging over an abandoned lot in Londons East End is of an altogether grander scale. A large and secretive Islamic sect proposed building what would have been the largest mosque in Europe, smack at the gateway to the 2012 Olympic Games, and within sight of Londons financial district.
That plan was sent back to the drawing board to be scaled down, but not before raising a furor of equal size and discomforting questions about the right of Britains Muslims to take up a public space commensurate with their growing numbers.
This summer on the Web site of Prime Minister Gordon Brown, more than 250,000 critics of the proposed mosque supported a petition initiated by a backer of the conservative British National Party. Some of them said a large mosque had no right to exist in such a prominent place in a Christian country.
When, around the same time, Karen Armstrong, a historian of religion, wrote an article in the liberal Guardian newspaper commenting favorably about the mosque, the papers Web site was deluged with complaints.
In Newham, the borough where the mosque would stand, Alan Craig, the leader of the Christian Peoples Alliance Party in the East End, started a one-man campaign against the mosque a year ago that has grown and gained national prominence.
He began by emphasizing the size of the mosque. But now he focuses on its sponsor, Tablighi Jamaat, a worldwide evangelical Islamic group based in Pakistan with millions of followers that professes to encourage Muslims to be more loyal to their faith.
American and European law enforcement officials say Tablighi Jamaats simple message masks a fertile recruiting ground for terrorists. Two of the suicide bombers who attacked the London transit system in July 2005 had attended Tablighi Jamaat gatherings, British security officials said.
Tablighi Jamaat is a separatist organization, Mr. Craig said in an interview in his living room where a picture of the crucifixion of Christ hung on a wall, a cross rested on a bookshelf, and a Bible lay on the coffee table.
They refer to us as kafir, a term of contempt, he added. Thats not what we need. We dont want this mosque in East London. It will be disastrous. ...
I have no idea what made you think the countries that brought us german fascism, french gaullism, and british imperialism, would be melting pots of racial tolerance. One of the europeans flaws is overt xenophobia.
For all our flaws, that's one of the greatest things about the united states: tolerance, diversity, and a melting pot of talent and cultures.
Where is the tolerance?
The architects vision is of a 21st-century Alhambra, a place for prayer, education, debate and the celebration of Islamic culture.
But the plan to build Europes biggest mosque beside the London 2012 Olympic Park is attracting opposition from the Muslim community.
The concern is not the building, but the activities of Tablighi Jamaat, the ultra-orthodox sect that is behind the huge mosque.
A petition against the scheme, organised by Muslims in the East London borough of Newham, attracted 2,500 signatures in only ten days and is continuing to draw support. It says that allowing Tablighi Jamaat to build the mosque would aggravate community tensions.
Ruth Kelly, the Communities and Local Government Secretary, who is currently redrawing the Governments approach to engagement with the Muslim community, is aware of the East London petition. She has the power to subject the plans to a public inquiry.
The scheme for the mosque, drawn up by the award- winning architects, MYAA, envisages a complex containing an Islamic garden, school and prayer space for as many as 70,000 worshippers 23 times greater than the capacity of Liverpool cathedral, Britains largest Christian place of worship.
Newham Council signed a memorandum of agreement in 2001 with the charity behind the scheme, the Anjuman-E- Islahul Muslimeen, which states it has no objection in principle to . . . a major new, high-quality mosque.
But there are mounting concerns about Tablighi Jamaat and its strict interpretation of Islam.
A leaked FBI memo, obtained by US news media in 2005, raised fears that al- Qaeda was using membership of Tablighi Jamaat as cover . . . to network with other extremists in the US.
A number of British terrorists have had associations with the organisation, including Richard Reid, the shoe bomber now in prison in the US. Mohammad Sidique Khan and Shehzad Tanweer, two of the July 7 bombers, had links with the large Tablighi Jamaat mosque in Dewsbury, West Yorkshire.
The sects leading scholars encourage its followers to be aloof from politics and the secular world, but security agencies fear that its brand of orthodoxy provides a fertile recruiting ground for terrorists.
Dr Irfan al-Alawi, Europe director of the Centre for Islamic Pluralism, is extremely concerned about the spread of Tablighi Jamaat and recently addressed a seminar at the Policy Exchange think-tank about the mosque plans. Tablighi are not moderate Muslims, they are a separatist movement, he said.
If this mosque were to go ahead it will be strictly run by the Tablighis; there will be no room for moderates.
Asif Shakoor, chairman of Sunni Friends of Newham, said the petition was a response to a feeling that the voices of most Muslims in the area were not being heard. The petition text states: We propose that when and if planning permission is granted . . . that all Muslim groups be equally represented at the proposed place of worship that is to celebrate the 2012 Olympic Games in London.
Temporary planning permission for a makeshift mosque on the site has expired and a formal application for the new complex has not yet been lodged.
A spokesman for Newham council said: We are keen to enter into fresh discussions about the future of the project.
For what it's worth, a liberal English lady I was out with recently worried that her country was "sleepwalking" into a big problem with all the Muslims.
"I have no idea what made you think the countries that brought us german fascism, french gaullism, and british imperialism, would be melting pots of racial tolerance. One of the europeans flaws is overt xenophobia.
For all our flaws, that's one of the greatest things about the united states: tolerance, diversity, and a melting pot of talent and cultures. Muslim immigrants here are generally welcomed, and thrive, with the exception of overt hostility from hard core republicans."
Dead Can Dance
Wow. That has to be one of the most dumbly glib posts I've seen in a while. It manages to ovelook America's history of slavery and Indian genocide (to echo the left) and Europe's total absence of either, and manages to, as tb notes, engage in a stereotype of its own and rally that neocon brand of stupidity. Europe is pretty pathetically left/socialist compared to the U.S. on many issues, and the UK more "politically correct" than the US, if that's even possible, on race. From the right, it overlooks the fact that Muslims are responsible for deadly acts of terrorism that have not struck Europe with nearly the same force. From the white nationalist perspective, it overlooks the fact that no nation is really a "melting pot" in which races all get along.
Gee, what's missing?
Muslim immigrants here are largely successful and welcome. Many of them are doctors, engineers, nurses, and small business euntrepeneurs.
Muslims in many european countries live in ghettos, and outside the mainstream of the european economy. You're dreaming if you think european universal healthcare is a reflection of some PC utopian culture.
Europeans engaged in the slave trade for hundreds, indeed thousands of years, and Europe's history of genocide remains unchallenged to this day.For what it's worth, a liberal English lady I was out with recently worried that her country was "sleepwalking" into a big problem with all the Muslims.
"I have no idea what made you think the countries that brought us german fascism, french gaullism, and british imperialism, would be melting pots of racial tolerance. One of the europeans flaws is overt xenophobia.
For all our flaws, that's one of the greatest things about the united states: tolerance, diversity, and a melting pot of talent and cultures. Muslim immigrants here are generally welcomed, and thrive, with the exception of overt hostility from hard core republicans."
Dead Can Dance
Wow. That has to be one of the most dumbly glib posts I've seen in a while. It manages to ovelook America's history of slavery and Indian genocide (to echo the left) and Europe's total absence of either, and manages to, as tb notes, engage in a stereotype of its own and rally that neocon brand of stupidity. Europe is pretty pathetically left/socialist compared to the U.S. on many issues, and the UK more "politically correct" than the US, if that's even possible, on race. From the right, it overlooks the fact that Muslims are responsible for deadly acts of terrorism that have not struck Europe with nearly the same force. From the white nationalist perspective, it overlooks the fact that no nation is really a "melting pot" in which races all get along.
Gee, what's missing?
You've painted a clear juxtaposition here. I would seem that from this you mean to infer that in the United States the majority of muslims are successful professionals, while in Europe the majority are living in isolated ghettos. And your basis for this observation would be....what? I'm hoping you'll provide something substantive (perhaps with a link) rather than another "Everybody knows....".
Europeans engaged in the slave trade for hundreds, indeed thousands of years, and Europe's history of genocide remains unchallenged to this day.
My bad. I thought I was on the 'Current Events' board.
Why do you hate america? Must I continue to defend america here.
If you are unaware of the muslim ghettos, and muslim riots in France, then its not up to me to educate you about the ghettoization and marginalization of many muslims in europe.
By contrast, we are a society that largely accepts and is tolerant of legal immigranst from every corner of the planet. Naturalized muslim americans have thrived here. Many of them are professionals or small business euntrepeneurs. I would wager that they are one of the most peaceful and law-abiding immigration demographics in the country. Hello? Russian Mafia? Mexican Mafia? Italian Mafia? When's the last time you heard of naturalized muslim american citizens engaging in large scale organized crime, or car jackings? The answer: you haven't.
Yikes. The ethnic cleansing of balkan muslims, the discrimination against algerians in france, and the ghettoization of turkish muslims in germany is well documented, and are current events. Please do try to keep up.
Wow. That has to be one of the most dumbly glib posts I've seen in a while. It manages to ovelook America's history of slavery and Indian genocide (to echo the left) and Europe's total absence of either, and manages to, as tb notes, engage in a stereotype of its own and rally that neocon brand of stupidity.
My bad. I thought I was on the 'Current Events' board.
The part about the slave trade is not entirely correct. Between 1640 and 1820 there were 10 million slaves sold to the West by the African Bantu's. 170,000 of them were shipped to Europe, and naturally, slavery grew from that population until it was abolished. Remember, the slave trade was abolished by most nations by the 1820's. I wrote my history mid-term on the slave trade, so I know the break-down: 170,000 (Europe), 3.5 million (Portugese Brazil), 1.7 million (British Caribbean), 1.7 million (French Caribbean), 1.6 million (Spanish America), 500,000 (Dutch America), 400,000 (British North America), 28,000 (Danish West Indies).
Also, Post-Roman Europe emerged out of genocide committed against and amongst the European barbarian tribes (Gauls, Ostrogoths, Visigoths, Vandals, Angles, Saxons, Jutes, Lombards, etc.). It later committed genocide in Latin America and Africa. Hitler, an Austrian, committed genocide in the 20th Century.
