Uh Oh…The Spanner’s About To Hit The Spinners

[PoliticalChic]

It was the misfortune of black Americans that they were just on the verge of passing through the immigrant experience when damaging ideas about welfare and the lenient attitude about crime took hold. It could have happened to the Italians, Germans, Jews or Irish, but luckily for them, there were no Liberals around to “help” when they arrived. Coulter

When exactly were black Americans on the verge of passing through the immigrant experience? Was it 1865 when they were freed? Was it 1965 at the beginning of the Great Society? Or should they have just been patient for another 100 years?

"Was it 1865 when they were freed?"


Remind me.....which party freed the slaves?


And......which party do you vote for???

 

[alang1216]

It was the misfortune of black Americans that they were just on the verge of passing through the immigrant experience when damaging ideas about welfare and the lenient attitude about crime took hold. It could have happened to the Italians, Germans, Jews or Irish, but luckily for them, there were no Liberals around to “help” when they arrived. Coulter

When exactly were black Americans on the verge of passing through the immigrant experience? Was it 1865 when they were freed? Was it 1965 at the beginning of the Great Society? Or should they have just been patient for another 100 years?

"Was it 1865 when they were freed?"


Remind me.....which party freed the slaves?


And......which party do you vote for???

As usual you dodge and deflect any questions.

Feel free to dodge this question too:
Which party in 1865 was in favor or reparations for freed slaves? (spoiler alert, it was the GOP)

And......which party do you vote for???

 

[l.todd]

Thank you for raising this book and topic PC. In reality, no one can refute Murray's statistics and what they mean. There will be a lot of reasoning as to why it is, but his research is impeccable and clear cut. I have not read the book, but have read articles about it and analyses of it. No one, from what I have seen, has been able to impugn his research. They just impugn his character and his motives. The reality is though, that no matter how many laws we pass, no matter how much money we throw at the problem, it will not be resolved. Government can not do it. If it can be done at all, it has to be done by society, particularly the black community.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Thank you for raising this book and topic PC. In reality, no one can refute Murray's statistics and what they mean. There will be a lot of reasoning as to why it is, but his research is impeccable and clear cut. I have not read the book, but have read articles about it and analyses of it. No one, from what I have seen, has been able to impugn his research. They just impugn his character and his motives. The reality is though, that no matter how many laws we pass, no matter how much money we throw at the problem, it will not be resolved. Government can not do it. If it can be done at all, it has to be done by society, particularly the black community.

While I greatly appreciate this post, and agree about how irrefutable Murray's work is, in chapter three he more than suggests that those statistics mean less than you and I might believe.


I'll get around to posting what he says.....but may be a sample:

" For example, two students at the 43rd and 56th percentiles of cognitive ability are 13 percentiles apart and about 5 IQ points apart, a difference of 0.33 SDs. Substantively, the difference in cognitive ability between the two students is so small that even the most perceptive teachers cannot easily guess which student has which score.


...overlap exists in the distributions. It is not a threatening picture. Yes, differences exist, but it is also true that millions of Africans and Latins have higher cognitive ability than millions of Europeans and Asians. "



I still find it a difficult subject to broach.


But I'll get to it.

 

[l.todd]

That makes sense but..... aren't the average cognitive abilities between blacks and whites closer to 1 standard deviation? No doubt there are outliers, as there always are, but if the average is truly 1 SD, that is pretty statistically significant. I may be wrong on that, but i think I read that somewhere.

 

[PoliticalChic]

That makes sense but..... aren't the average cognitive abilities between blacks and whites closer to 1 standard deviation? No doubt there are outliers, as there always are, but if the average is truly 1 SD, that is pretty statistically significant. I may be wrong on that, but i think I read that somewhere.

The gap has narrowed to under one SD....

"Using tests administered during the 2010s, which in effect means NAEP, the mean European–African difference was 0.85 SDs, the mean European–Latin difference was 0.62 SDs, and the mean European–Asian difference was –0.30 SDs. Assuming a mean of 100 and SD of 15 for IQ, the corresponding equivalents in IQ points are 12.75, 9.30, and 4.50 respectively."


The real question becomes how those points translate into life results.

This is from a post I was working on.

“Nothing in the world can take the place of Persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful men with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts.

Persistence and Determination alone are omnipotent. The slogan “Press On” has solved and will always solve the problems of the human race.”
Coolidge




I don't believe that IQ explains this:

 

[l.todd]

That makes sense but..... aren't the average cognitive abilities between blacks and whites closer to 1 standard deviation? No doubt there are outliers, as there always are, but if the average is truly 1 SD, that is pretty statistically significant. I may be wrong on that, but i think I read that somewhere.

The gap has narrowed to under one SD....

"Using tests administered during the 2010s, which in effect means NAEP, the mean European–African difference was 0.85 SDs, the mean European–Latin difference was 0.62 SDs, and the mean European–Asian difference was –0.30 SDs. Assuming a mean of 100 and SD of 15 for IQ, the corresponding equivalents in IQ points are 12.75, 9.30, and 4.50 respectively."


The real question becomes how those points translate into life results.

This is from a post I was working on.

“Nothing in the world can take the place of Persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful men with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts.

Persistence and Determination alone are omnipotent. The slogan “Press On” has solved and will always solve the problems of the human race.”
Coolidge




I don't believe that IQ explains this:

View attachment 510630

Maybe not, but don’t the gaps look similar to what it would look like if you graphed the IQ test results?

 

[DrLove]

When I'm looking for "honest conversations about race" PoliticalChic is my go-to source!

 

[PoliticalChic]

That makes sense but..... aren't the average cognitive abilities between blacks and whites closer to 1 standard deviation? No doubt there are outliers, as there always are, but if the average is truly 1 SD, that is pretty statistically significant. I may be wrong on that, but i think I read that somewhere.

The gap has narrowed to under one SD....

"Using tests administered during the 2010s, which in effect means NAEP, the mean European–African difference was 0.85 SDs, the mean European–Latin difference was 0.62 SDs, and the mean European–Asian difference was –0.30 SDs. Assuming a mean of 100 and SD of 15 for IQ, the corresponding equivalents in IQ points are 12.75, 9.30, and 4.50 respectively."


The real question becomes how those points translate into life results.

This is from a post I was working on.

“Nothing in the world can take the place of Persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful men with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts.

Persistence and Determination alone are omnipotent. The slogan “Press On” has solved and will always solve the problems of the human race.”
Coolidge




I don't believe that IQ explains this:

View attachment 510630

Maybe not, but don’t the gaps look similar to what it would look like if you graphed the IQ test results?

 

[PoliticalChic]

That makes sense but..... aren't the average cognitive abilities between blacks and whites closer to 1 standard deviation? No doubt there are outliers, as there always are, but if the average is truly 1 SD, that is pretty statistically significant. I may be wrong on that, but i think I read that somewhere.

The gap has narrowed to under one SD....

"Using tests administered during the 2010s, which in effect means NAEP, the mean European–African difference was 0.85 SDs, the mean European–Latin difference was 0.62 SDs, and the mean European–Asian difference was –0.30 SDs. Assuming a mean of 100 and SD of 15 for IQ, the corresponding equivalents in IQ points are 12.75, 9.30, and 4.50 respectively."


The real question becomes how those points translate into life results.

This is from a post I was working on.

“Nothing in the world can take the place of Persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful men with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts.

Persistence and Determination alone are omnipotent. The slogan “Press On” has solved and will always solve the problems of the human race.”
Coolidge




I don't believe that IQ explains this:

View attachment 510630

Maybe not, but don’t the gaps look similar to what it would look like if you graphed the IQ test results?

An Inordinate Fear Of Truth…

…is propelling the hatred of Charles Murray. Politically, the first amendment notwithstanding….and scholarship taking a far second to political correctness, there are clearly subjects and facts that are forbidden, and, as the saying goes….’none dare speak their name. The motto is “no silence...

www.usmessageboard.com

 

[l.todd]

I just read another article about the book. It does seem to be gaining traction. The thing is, as an American, all I read about and see are results of cognitive tests in the US, where there is without a doubt a history of slavery, discrimination and Jim Crow laws. I haven't really researched it, but what are the results of these tests in societies that DON'T have this history of slavery? European countries? Asian countries? What is the racial breakdown of cognitive abilities there? Also, what about African countries where whites or Asians are minorities? What do the tests show there? The question that must be analyzed is whether this is a cultural/systemic issue or a genetic one? Has anyone done any testing or analysis to determine the exact reason why this difference exists? Has Murray analyzed it? If there is a way to determine this one way or the other, wouldn't it be important to do that?

 

[PoliticalChic]

I just read another article about the book. It does seem to be gaining traction. The thing is, as an American, all I read about and see are results of cognitive tests in the US, where there is without a doubt a history of slavery, discrimination and Jim Crow laws. I haven't really researched it, but what are the results of these tests in societies that DON'T have this history of slavery? European countries? Asian countries? What is the racial breakdown of cognitive abilities there? Also, what about African countries where whites or Asians are minorities? What do the tests show there? The question that must be analyzed is whether this is a cultural/systemic issue or a genetic one? Has anyone done any testing or analysis to determine the exact reason why this difference exists? Has Murray analyzed it? If there is a way to determine this one way or the other, wouldn't it be important to do that?

I believe you will find this thread interesting.

An Inordinate Fear Of Truth…

…is propelling the hatred of Charles Murray. Politically, the first amendment notwithstanding….and scholarship taking a far second to political correctness, there are clearly subjects and facts that are forbidden, and, as the saying goes….’none dare speak their name. The motto is “no silence...

www.usmessageboard.com

 

[candycorn]

Self portrait?

 

[PoliticalChic]

Self portrait?

Why is it that none of you on the Left can post a substantive refutation of the truth that hurts you so mightily?

IQ?

Education?

Deficiency?

Addiction?

 

[PoliticalChic]

Self portrait?

Try again:


About that title…a Brit colloquialism referring to a wrench in the machinery, or….some people will be upset by this thread.

But I’ve been told we need an honest conversation about race. And so, this will be.





1.I’m really uncomfortable about the facts in this this thread, judgements about entire racial groups, rather than about individuals. But the Democrats/Progressives have made race the franca lingua in our discussions, I suppose this is the accepted mode.

My outlook on all things is a function of the facts, of reality. In posting this thread, I admit that it hurts in that my most deeply held belief is that all human, even when defined by group membership, have the same innate abilities, and, therefore, the same chances for success and happiness, and that it may alter my views.

Charles Murray’s well documented and scholarly treatise has shaken some of those beliefs. And he is brave to advance what he has proven.



2.The First Amendment notwithstanding it is dangerous, often fatal to one’s career, reputation, and livelihood to speak one’s mind….or even think unorthodox and unauthorized, by the Democrat Party, thoughts.

3. And in the light of this current milieu, authors like Charles Murray should be celebrated: he voices, writes, what so many sense to be true, but dare not say it. Let’s have that national discussion!

And here is the paradox….the majority party is enveloped in Identity Politics, racial politics, which portrays entire groups, claiming that all have the very same aspirations, characteristics, and grievances, and need be viewed as cookie-cutter representatives of their group.

Murray uses that belief to state that if we must discuss all as groups, there are also group cognitive abilities….and group relationships with the law and law enforcement.

But under Democrat rule, those two areas are ‘verboten’…must not be mentioned if they don’t put their authorized groups in a favorable light.

Or else!!



The following is from Murray’s book “Facing Reality.”

I’d love to hear any disagreement beyond vituperation.

 

[Crepitus]

Self portrait?

Why is it that none of you on the Left can post a substantive refutation of the truth that hurts you so mightily?

IQ?

Education?

Deficiency?

Addiction?

The massive lies you tell are so obviously foreign propaganda that all we can do is laugh.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Self portrait?

Why is it that none of you on the Left can post a substantive refutation of the truth that hurts you so mightily?

IQ?

Education?

Deficiency?

Addiction?

The massive lies you tell are so obviously foreign propaganda that all we can do is laugh.

Why is it that none of you on the Left can post a substantive refutation of the truth that hurts you so mightily?

IQ?

Education?

Deficiency?

Addiction?

 

[Crepitus]

Self portrait?

Why is it that none of you on the Left can post a substantive refutation of the truth that hurts you so mightily?

IQ?

Education?

Deficiency?

Addiction?

The massive lies you tell are so obviously foreign propaganda that all we can do is laugh.

Why is it that none of you on the Left can post a substantive refutation of the truth that hurts you so mightily?

IQ?

Education?

Deficiency?

Addiction?

What "Truth" would that be?

 

[PoliticalChic]

Self portrait?

Why is it that none of you on the Left can post a substantive refutation of the truth that hurts you so mightily?

IQ?

Education?

Deficiency?

Addiction?

The massive lies you tell are so obviously foreign propaganda that all we can do is laugh.

Why is it that none of you on the Left can post a substantive refutation of the truth that hurts you so mightily?

IQ?

Education?

Deficiency?

Addiction?

What "Truth" would that be?

Exactly what brought you crawling in.


About that title…a Brit colloquialism referring to a wrench in the machinery, or….some people will be upset by this thread.

But I’ve been told we need an honest conversation about race. And so, this will be.





1.I’m really uncomfortable about the facts in this this thread, judgements about entire racial groups, rather than about individuals. But the Democrats/Progressives have made race the franca lingua in our discussions, I suppose this is the accepted mode.

My outlook on all things is a function of the facts, of reality. In posting this thread, I admit that it hurts in that my most deeply held belief is that all human, even when defined by group membership, have the same innate abilities, and, therefore, the same chances for success and happiness, and that it may alter my views.

Charles Murray’s well documented and scholarly treatise has shaken some of those beliefs. And he is brave to advance what he has proven.



2.The First Amendment notwithstanding it is dangerous, often fatal to one’s career, reputation, and livelihood to speak one’s mind….or even think unorthodox and unauthorized, by the Democrat Party, thoughts.

3. And in the light of this current milieu, authors like Charles Murray should be celebrated: he voices, writes, what so many sense to be true, but dare not say it. Let’s have that national discussion!

And here is the paradox….the majority party is enveloped in Identity Politics, racial politics, which portrays entire groups, claiming that all have the very same aspirations, characteristics, and grievances, and need be viewed as cookie-cutter representatives of their group.

Murray uses that belief to state that if we must discuss all as groups, there are also group cognitive abilities….and group relationships with the law and law enforcement.

But under Democrat rule, those two areas are ‘verboten’…must not be mentioned if they don’t put their authorized groups in a favorable light.

Or else!!



The following is from Murray’s book “Facing Reality.”

I’d love to hear any disagreement beyond vituperation.

 

[Crepitus]

Self portrait?

Why is it that none of you on the Left can post a substantive refutation of the truth that hurts you so mightily?

IQ?

Education?

Deficiency?

Addiction?

The massive lies you tell are so obviously foreign propaganda that all we can do is laugh.

Why is it that none of you on the Left can post a substantive refutation of the truth that hurts you so mightily?

IQ?

Education?

Deficiency?

Addiction?

What "Truth" would that be?

Exactly what brought you crawling in.


About that title…a Brit colloquialism referring to a wrench in the machinery, or….some people will be upset by this thread.

But I’ve been told we need an honest conversation about race. And so, this will be.





1.I’m really uncomfortable about the facts in this this thread, judgements about entire racial groups, rather than about individuals. But the Democrats/Progressives have made race the franca lingua in our discussions, I suppose this is the accepted mode.

My outlook on all things is a function of the facts, of reality. In posting this thread, I admit that it hurts in that my most deeply held belief is that all human, even when defined by group membership, have the same innate abilities, and, therefore, the same chances for success and happiness, and that it may alter my views.

Charles Murray’s well documented and scholarly treatise has shaken some of those beliefs. And he is brave to advance what he has proven.



2.The First Amendment notwithstanding it is dangerous, often fatal to one’s career, reputation, and livelihood to speak one’s mind….or even think unorthodox and unauthorized, by the Democrat Party, thoughts.

3. And in the light of this current milieu, authors like Charles Murray should be celebrated: he voices, writes, what so many sense to be true, but dare not say it. Let’s have that national discussion!

And here is the paradox….the majority party is enveloped in Identity Politics, racial politics, which portrays entire groups, claiming that all have the very same aspirations, characteristics, and grievances, and need be viewed as cookie-cutter representatives of their group.

Murray uses that belief to state that if we must discuss all as groups, there are also group cognitive abilities….and group relationships with the law and law enforcement.

But under Democrat rule, those two areas are ‘verboten’…must not be mentioned if they don’t put their authorized groups in a favorable light.

Or else!!



The following is from Murray’s book “Facing Reality.”

I’d love to hear any disagreement beyond vituperation.

There's no truth there to refute.

Your handlers give you nothing but lies to post.