U.S. to Pull Out of 13 German Bases

[-Cp]

It's ABOUT FRIGGIN TIME! Thanks for NOTHING Germany... Thanks for being pussies in the War on Terror...

BERLIN — The U.S. Army will pull out of 13 bases in southern Germany as part of its repositioning of American forces around the world, its European headquarters said Friday.

Eleven bases in and around the Bavarian city of Wuerzburg will be handed over to the German government by September 2007, the Army's European headquarters in Heidelberg said. Two more bases near Wuerzburg will close and be handed over in subsequent years.

The Defense Department said the changes would affect about 6,100 soldiers and 11,000 family members as well as about 1,000 Army civilian employees and 1,000 civilians employed locally.

Although facilities such as the huge Ramstein Air Base, a hub for the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, are being retained, Washington is bringing many units home and opening smaller, more flexible bases abroad to respond to new threats such as international terrorism.

The new bases will accommodate U.S.-based troops rotating through for shorter periods, without the schools and family housing that went with Cold War-era bases.

The U.S. military has about 62,000 service members based in Germany, a legacy of the Cold War. U.S. officials have said that number will fall to as few as 20,000.

The military has said a total of about 50,000 troops will be brought home from Germany and South Korea.

The closures announced Friday are part of plans calling for most of the Wuerzburg-based 1st Infantry Division to return to the United States in mid-2006 and to relocate, convert and deactivate other parts of the Army's 5th Corps.

The military also has said it will move the Wiesbaden-based 1st Armored Division — the other main element of the 5th Corps — out of Germany.

The Pentagon reiterated Friday that it intended to base a mobile Stryker Combat Brigade Team in Vilseck, also in Bavaria.

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationw...jul30,1,5106397.story?coll=la-headlines-world

 

[Gunny]

It's ABOUT FRIGGIN TIME! Thanks for NOTHING Germany... Thanks for being pussies in the War on Terror...

BERLIN — The U.S. Army will pull out of 13 bases in southern Germany as part of its repositioning of American forces around the world, its European headquarters said Friday.

Eleven bases in and around the Bavarian city of Wuerzburg will be handed over to the German government by September 2007, the Army's European headquarters in Heidelberg said. Two more bases near Wuerzburg will close and be handed over in subsequent years.

The Defense Department said the changes would affect about 6,100 soldiers and 11,000 family members as well as about 1,000 Army civilian employees and 1,000 civilians employed locally.

Although facilities such as the huge Ramstein Air Base, a hub for the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, are being retained, Washington is bringing many units home and opening smaller, more flexible bases abroad to respond to new threats such as international terrorism.

The new bases will accommodate U.S.-based troops rotating through for shorter periods, without the schools and family housing that went with Cold War-era bases.

The U.S. military has about 62,000 service members based in Germany, a legacy of the Cold War. U.S. officials have said that number will fall to as few as 20,000.

The military has said a total of about 50,000 troops will be brought home from Germany and South Korea.

The closures announced Friday are part of plans calling for most of the Wuerzburg-based 1st Infantry Division to return to the United States in mid-2006 and to relocate, convert and deactivate other parts of the Army's 5th Corps.

The military also has said it will move the Wiesbaden-based 1st Armored Division — the other main element of the 5th Corps — out of Germany.

The Pentagon reiterated Friday that it intended to base a mobile Stryker Combat Brigade Team in Vilseck, also in Bavaria.

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationw...jul30,1,5106397.story?coll=la-headlines-world

My heart bleeds that Germany is going to lose all those American dollars.

 

[Annie]

My heart bleeds that Germany is going to lose all those American dollars.

I agree. There is though, more than one way to look at this:

http://varifrank.com/archives/2005/07/pullout.php

Now that the cause is lost, America is pulling troops out of occupation duty. The foreign policy established by a President that many once considered being illegitimate and has inflamed many countries including former allies to break publicly against the nation, is finally at an end.

Of course, I’m talking of the US Army leaving Germany.

From the UK Guardian:

"Eleven bases in and around the Bavarian city of Wuerzburg will be handed over to the German government by September 2007, the Army's European headquarters in Heidelberg said. Two more bases near Wuerzburg will close and be handed over in subsequent years.

The Defense Department said the changes affect about 6,100 soldiers and 11,000 family members as well as about 1,000 Army civilian employees and 1,000 civilians employed locally.

The closures announced Friday are part of plans for most of the Wuerzburg-based 1st Infantry Division to return to the United States in mid-2006 and plans to relocate, convert and deactivate other parts of the Army's 5th Corps. The military also has said it will move the Wiesbaden-based 1st Armored Division - the other main element of 5th Corps - out of Germany..."

The last European war, fought 60 years ago, resulted in an occupation and a rebuilding of a foreign nation at unprecedented levels. The long term occupation of a sovereign nation by foreigners who didn’t speak the language didn’t understand the culture, who before they occupied their nation exposed it to a ferocious bombing, killing hundreds of thousands of its civilians, then placing their nations leaders on trial and executing them for their crimes.

What was the result? A nation at the center of Europe that is now at peace with its neighbors for the first time in millennia. A nation that was once the center of strife for every European generation since 1870 is now a nation so pacifist that it redefines the center of the leftist world. The German Green party and its Communist allies are strongest of all in Germany.

To be sure, Germany still has a military and its members are professional and experts in their field, but to say that the German military and the German people hold onto any illusions about the role of the military in a free democracy as they one did is to misunderstand everything that Germany has learned.

There was a time when the leader of Germany believed that the people in America were weak degenerates, who because of their low breeding and love of democracy could not stand against the strong will of the German superman. He was not alone, many people, smart people, people who should’ve known better, people who in other roles were my heroes, also thought that we didn’t stand a chance against the might of German Nazi ideology.

At the core of the war our grandfathers fought was a simple idea, that idea was “Are humans the instrument of the state, or is the state the instrument of the people”? Most of the rest of the world though that the battle was ‘Fascism vs. Communism”, but the battle was actually freedom against slavery. However, Americans spent the early years of the war, simply wishing nothing more than to be left alone. While our English cousins were being bombed in their homes with iron provided to the Nazis from the Soviet Union, our government, many celebrities and “progressives” worked day and night to stop our President from aiding the English in their struggle against Nazi tyranny...

 

[Gunny]

We need the manpower elsewhere. Manning an obsolete defensive perimeter while other troops are pushed to teh limit with short deployment turnaround is not what I'd call efficient.

Manning that perimeter and supporting local economies in a Nation that has been openly critical of the US and voted against us in the UN just simply doesn't make sense to me.

The only threat of invasion Germany currently faces is that of the mediocrity brought on by socialism.

 

[Annie]

We need the manpower elsewhere. Manning an obsolete defensive perimeter while other troops are pushed to teh limit with short deployment turnaround is not what I'd call efficient.

Manning that perimeter and supporting local economies in a Nation that has been openly critical of the US and voted against us in the UN just simply doesn't make sense to me.

The only threat of invasion Germany currently faces is that of the mediocrity brought on by socialism.

As I said, I agree. There is more than one way to look at this, though.

 

[Gunny]

As I said, I agree. There is more than one way to look at this, though.

LOL .... okay ..... I'm having a blonde moment ... what specifically are you looking at?

 

[Annie]

LOL .... okay ..... I'm having a blonde moment ... what specifically are you looking at?

'Connections' on the term 'pullout' same as in Iraq. What it 'really' means.

 

[hylandrdet]

It was about time anyway. I was stationed in Darmstadt, a small town just to the south of Frankfurt. I enjoyed my time there; the idea of going to McDonalds to get a Big Mac, pommes frites and a lager, still kicks butt in my mind.

My only concern is the future of US/foreign relations. Many of lessons our soldiers had learned, when dealing with other cultures, came from living amongst them.

We're not just removing bases, we're removing vitural classrooms from our soldiers. Just a thought!

 

[Annie]

It was about time anyway. I was stationed in Darmstadt, a small town just to the south of Frankfurt. I enjoyed my time there; the idea of going to McDonalds to get a Big Mac, pommes frites and a lager, still kicks butt in my mind.

My only concern is the future of US/foreign relations. Many of lessons our soldiers had learned, when dealing with other cultures, came from living amongst them.

We're not just removing bases, we're removing vitural classrooms from our soldiers. Just a thought!

My guess, the locations of the classrooms will change. Not a bad idea. New world, rather than spent.

 

[hylandrdet]

My guess, the locations of the classrooms will change. Not a bad idea. New world, rather than spent.

Well, Kathy, I have no intention of protesting the withdrawls, it's about time. I'll never regret my experience there.

I'd learned that the Germans were not all evil; I'd learned that many of them were executed, along with the Jews, for fighting against Hitler. Most important, I'd learned that Germany had put forth the strongest campaign to apologize for the holocaust; which is better than any other nation had ever done for apologizing for previous atrocities, including the US's role in slavery.

They'd paid their dues; our mission is done there. It's time to come home.

 

[Gunny]

Well, Kathy, I have no intention of protesting the withdrawls, it's about time. I'll never regret my experience there.

I'd learned that the Germans were not all evil; I'd learned that many of them were executed, along with the Jews, for fighting against Hitler. Most important, I'd learned that Germany had put forth the strongest campaign to apologize for the holocaust; which is better than any other nation had ever done for apologizing for previous atrocities, including the US's role in slavery.

They'd paid their dues; our mission is done there. It's time to come home.

You ever own any slaves? Just wondering why you think the US should apologize for it when no one living was a slave, nor owned any.

I also don't think the US's role is slavery compares AT ALL to what the Nazis did to the Jews.

 

[hylandrdet]

You ever own any slaves? Just wondering why you think the US should apologize for it when no one living was a slave, nor owned any.

You don't think so.

Were you at Auschwitz? Just wondering if the Germans should continue to apologize for it when every political figure responsible for the atrocity are now dead. So what you saying is keep the the halocaust alive, in our minds, while try and bury the US's role in slavery, which once you do your homework, you'll find to be more bloodier than anything Hitler had ever done.

http://www.innercity.org/holt/slavechron.html

I also don't think the US's role is slavery compares AT ALL to what the Nazis did to the Jews.

I agree. Slavery was far more worse in terms of death and length of time.

 

[pegwinn]

Well, My Partisanship is gonna show. General James L Jones (former Commandant of the Marine Corps) the current SACEUR was proposing this from jump street when he went over. He is the architect of moving Marines to different bases than the traditional Okinawa as well. Looks like someone listened. And, General Peter Pace will become the first Marine chairman of the JCS. This is shaping up to be a good century.

Now, as to apologies? None, nada, etc. Rather than apologize the Germans should have done as the US did after slavery. DEEDS, NOT WORDS.

 

[Gunny]

You don't think so.

Were you at Auschwitz? Just wondering if the Germans should continue to apologize for it when every political figure responsible for the atrocity are now dead. So what you saying is keep the the halocaust alive, in our minds, while try and bury the US's role in slavery, which once you do your homework, you'll find to be more bloodier than anything Hitler had ever done.

http://www.innercity.org/holt/slavechron.html

I've done my homework ....for years, so I'll stand on my statement. Your statement is illogical.

If slave owners actually mistreated their slaves they would be harming themselves financially. This is just another case of "Abu Ghraib-ism." The criminal minority for some reason represent the majority. Most slave owners needed their property in good health.

Perhaps YOU should research the subject a tad more, and stop judging 18th-19th century men by today's morals? Just a thought.
And no, I don't believe the current German government owes Jews an apology for the acts of criminals who were with few exceptions punished by death for their crimes.

I agree. Slavery was far more worse in terms of death and length of time.

 

[hylandrdet]

http://www.bellaonline.com/articles/art18910.asp
http://www.usnationalslaverymuseum.org/home.asp

Perhaps you need to research a little bit more yourself. You see, the amendment that declared the african slaves a 3/5 human was a proclamation that the slaves were declared by law as "animals" by the north and therefore was treated as such. The "humane" treatment you speak of is the the form of treatment a "master" gave to his' "pet". Anytime you feel like it you can go to the national slavery museum and see the reproduction of the branding procedures.

I'm sorry, but no REAL CHRISTIAN AMERICAN, can look back at the history of slavery and not feel some sense of shame. This is my last response on this issue because I am clearly talking to a brick wall.

Now back on the subject. I feel a great sense of pride, yet a sense of sorrow, in our troops leaving Germany. We did our job, yet I feel a significant bond will be broken. I hope we can at least leave one base there.

Germany had sinned a great sin, paid the awful prices, asked for redemption and got it. Our mission is done there, it's time to leave.

 

[pegwinn]

http://www.bellaonline.com/articles/art18910.asp
http://www.usnationalslaverymuseum.org/home.asp

Perhaps you need to research a little bit more yourself. You see, the amendment that declared the african slaves a 3/5 human was a proclamation that the slaves were declared by law as "animals" by the north and therefore was treated as such. Which amendment would you be talking about? And if you wish, discuss it so your interpretation makes sense. The "humane" treatment you speak of is the the form of treatment a "master" gave to his' "pet". Anytime you feel like it you can go to the national slavery museum and see the reproduction of the branding procedures. No one is disputing that slavery is a bad thing. However, to expect me to apologize for it is a measure of unreasonable extremeism bordering on the stupid. The simple fact is that I cannot hold your kids accountable for your actions.

I'm sorry, but no REAL CHRISTIAN AMERICAN, can look back at the history of slavery and not feel some sense of shame. This is my last response on this issue because I am clearly talking to a brick wall. Apparently I am a brick as well. So since you offered to give me the last word....... No real American would oppose the war in Iraq. That makes more sense than the "no real Christian American" statement. I suppose that I should feel guilty for the way the Indians were treated, how women were treated, and the lack of pity for illegal immigrants as well? Because I am a white male I am supposed to develop a series of neurosis to accommodate an apologists view? Lemmie think about that........ nah.

Now back on the subject. I feel a great sense of pride, yet a sense of sorrow, in our troops leaving Germany. We did our job, yet I feel a significant bond will be broken. I hope we can at least leave one base there.

Germany had sinned a great sin, paid the awful prices, asked for redemption and got it. Our mission is done there, it's time to leave.

*

 

[padisha emperor]

about ther origin of the thread :

I find not shocking the fact that Germany wants to take back some bases.
USA were here since the end of the WWII. As occupation force. Then, the utility was for the Cold War.
but since the fall of the Soviet Empire, the utility of military bases all over Europe it quite lower...If there is a problem, USA can ask the permission to use some allied countries' bases. but the sovereign coutnries can have their own bases without creating a shame for the US eyes...

Germany was in its right.

 

[Gunny]

http://www.bellaonline.com/articles/art18910.asp
http://www.usnationalslaverymuseum.org/home.asp

Perhaps you need to research a little bit more yourself. You see, the amendment that declared the african slaves a 3/5 human was a proclamation that the slaves were declared by law as "animals" by the north and therefore was treated as such. The "humane" treatment you speak of is the the form of treatment a "master" gave to his' "pet". Anytime you feel like it you can go to the national slavery museum and see the reproduction of the branding procedures.

I have not argued against any of your points in this paragraph, and I HAVE BEEN to the National Slavery Museum, thanks. Been to the Holocaust Museum as well. I think my research on the topic far surpasses yours if for no other reason than I am not blinded by any personal agenda.

I merely made the point that it is counterproductive to harm one's assets when they are used to provide income. Mistreating slaves in that sense is overblown. That is NOT saying slavery is right, nor that slaves were treated fairly as human beings BY TODAY's standards. Judging yesterday's man by today's rule is dishonest, IMO.

I'm sorry, but no REAL CHRISTIAN AMERICAN, can look back at the history of slavery and not feel some sense of shame. This is my last response on this issue because I am clearly talking to a brick wall.

The brick wall would be YOU. I have NO REASON to feel shame for something I have not done, nor was in any way part of, and I'm not going to apologize for what others have done. I consider those of you who think I should answer for someone else's sins completely ludicrous.

Now back on the subject. I feel a great sense of pride, yet a sense of sorrow, in our troops leaving Germany. We did our job, yet I feel a significant bond will be broken. I hope we can at least leave one base there.

Read the original post. We are not withdrawing ALL of our troops. Just realigning troops to reflect the current situation in the world instead of manning bases that no longer serve a purpose.

Germany had sinned a great sin, paid the awful prices, asked for redemption and got it. Our mission is done there, it's time to leave.

Exactly. The price was paid ...time to move on. The price of slavery in the US was the utter devastation of the South, a way of life, and a generation of young men from both North and South. Account paid in full. Time to fast forward 140 years.

 

[Gunny]

about ther origin of the thread :

I find not shocking the fact that Germany wants to take back some bases.
USA were here since the end of the WWII. As occupation force. Then, the utility was for the Cold War.
but since the fall of the Soviet Empire, the utility of military bases all over Europe it quite lower...If there is a problem, USA can ask the permission to use some allied countries' bases. but the sovereign coutnries can have their own bases without creating a shame for the US eyes...

Germany was in its right.

I LOVE this. Germany was within its rights to do WHAT? The US decided to realign our troops ... we were not asked to leave.

 

[padisha emperor]

I LOVE this. Germany was within its rights to do WHAT? The US decided to realign our troops ... we were not asked to leave.

oops sorry, it seems I don't understand

apologize