U.S. Military Preparing for Domestic Disturbances

[PubliusInfinitum]

Nah, I'm gonna say that despite a small and potentially violent criminal element in it, short bursts of mob mentality or rioting that occur, etc. I trust my fellow American citizens much more than I trust the government.

Once martial law is declared, there is not a thing stopping a well-armed, well-trained military who have already intentionally and systematically had much of their critical thinking and human compassion trained out of them from killing any and all persons at their discretion.

With no police or military, the civilian population is more likely to band together in at least groups akin to neighborhood watch to look out for their collective self-interest and safety. Bad things would surely happen in such a situation, but they'd be more contained and limited than if we have tanks rolling through America's streets.

If I find any mobs rioting in my sphere of influence... I intend to mow them down where they stand... and walk through the fallen capping them in their leftist heads where they lay.

Frankly I can't wait... the sooner you losers start with the riots, demanding your unearned entitlements, the sooner we can get this country back on track minus the DEAD WEIGHT of the ideological left...

 

[eots]

sure lets turn this into a illusion of left /right as they steal your money and turn the military on you when you protest

 

[Paulie]

Yeah, what's this thread even REMOTELY got to do with the credit crisis?

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Nah, I'm gonna say that despite a small and potentially violent criminal element in it, short bursts of mob mentality or rioting that occur, etc. I trust my fellow American citizens much more than I trust the government.

Once martial law is declared, there is not a thing stopping a well-armed, well-trained military who have already intentionally and systematically had much of their critical thinking and human compassion trained out of them from killing any and all persons at their discretion.

With no police or military, the civilian population is more likely to band together in at least groups akin to neighborhood watch to look out for their collective self-interest and safety. Bad things would surely happen in such a situation, but they'd be more contained and limited than if we have tanks rolling through America's streets.

The fact that having US troops stationed on and intended for use against the US population is COMPLETELY ILLEGAL and in direct violation of the 1878 Posse Commitus Act should be enough for everyone, even those who don't fear their government at all, to oppose it.

With the military used in situations of "civil unrest and crowd control" there is nothing to stop any president from becoming fully tyrannical, declaring that the American people who want him out are involved in insurrection, and becoming a full-blown military dictator. Sure, that is a worst case scenario, but this establishes that precedent and makes it possible, even planned for.

Another dumbshit. American troops have not been trained not to think or feel or turned into killing machines. But you dumb ***** can not fathom that at all.

When society collpaes cause of the lose of the power of money we better hope the military is around to salvage something out of the ensuing mess. The cities will go up like dry grass in a firestorm.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Deregulation is a policy of the right. The left generally calls for greater regulation of the financial sector.

If you're parroting the absurd notion that a few low-income people defaulting on home loans caused a massive recession, then take an actual look at the progression of our financial situation and how wholly insignificant and minor that is.

Otherwise, explain yourself.

Then explain why Dobbs and franks went out of their way to PREVENT new regulations to control this crisis BEFORE it happened? Franks was insiting even earlier this year there was no problem.

 

[Chris]

You are a ******* retard. Excessive spending on Domestic problems is by far the worst problem that and the fact the Democrats caused the melt donw of our banking industry.

Reagan and Bush created 90% of the National Debt by cutting taxes and increasing military spending by huge amounts.

ReaganBushDebt.org

 

[QUENTIN]

Another dumbshit. American troops have not been trained not to think or feel or turned into killing machines. But you dumb ***** can not fathom that at all.

I went through the ten week Marine Corps Officer Candidate Course in Quantico. I didn't say they were trained not to think or feel or were turned into killing machines and I wasn't speaking from anything but experience. Your hyperbolic restatement of what I wrote is an inaccurate misrepresentation. If you are truly a RetiredGySgt, then you do recognize that a chief role of basic and the early stages of military service is to "intentionally and systematically ...train out soldiers'... critical thinking and human compassion"

The mission of every US soldier is to follow orders. Because they are intended for use in war and war is chaos, they are taught to suppress critical thinking and compassion and ACT IN THE MOMENT. Just follow the order. In most human beings, there is a natural, innate or taught, hesitancy to take human life. For the military to be effective in its deployment, this is trained out of recruits.

That doesn't mean they then become kill crazy terminators or anything of the sort. I was still a fully capable and rational person who did not want to murder people when I decided not to sign. My father is a 21+ year vet who also is far from a "killing machine" despite the fact that he did take part in lethal engagements. My point is that in your average citizen, even in a state of chaos, there is a strong instinct and disincentive to kill your fellow citizen. In military personnel who function on snap command, this is considerably less so. This makes them more dangerous.

You also ignore the fact that there are MANY, MANY more people in this country who in the event of lawlessness would want and forge their own collective means of protection and safety than those who would want to use the opportunity to riot, rape, pillage, etc. We're a country of 300 million people, you think we're all crazy? Either you live in a different country than I do or you have am excessively grim view of humanity.

Add that to the fact that a government maintaining power via deployment of the military against its own people is antithetical to everything America and is by definition a MILITARY DICTATORSHIP, a TYRANNY. If you're willing to accept that form of government, you have no respect for your own liberty.


As for the financial crisis and depression caused by deregulation that allowed massive speculation that inflates profits on money that does not actually exist and outright fraud, not a few thousand defaulted home loans, the answer is complex and time-consuming and deserves more time than I have on Christmas Eve. I'll be back within the next few days to offer a thorough and well-sourced explanation of how the home loan argument is a vain and flimsy attempt to push this crisis of corporate greed on the favorite whipping boy of the unfettered capitalism proponents --poor minorities --when it is in fact very clearly the fault of their speculation and unethical disregard for the impact their actions would have on the rest of the country.

 

[Paulie]

RGS will be along anytime now to use shoddy grammar, while ironically calling you a retard for thinking for yourself.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

RGS will be along anytime now to use shoddy grammar, while ironically calling you a retard for thinking for yourself.

I have an idea, go play in the highway with a plastic bag and a rubber band.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

I went through the ten week Marine Corps Officer Candidate Course in Quantico. I didn't say they were trained not to think or feel or were turned into killing machines and I wasn't speaking from anything but experience. Your hyperbolic restatement of what I wrote is an inaccurate misrepresentation. If you are truly a RetiredGySgt, then you do recognize that a chief role of basic and the early stages of military service is to "intentionally and systematically ...train out soldiers'... critical thinking and human compassion"

The mission of every US soldier is to follow orders. Because they are intended for use in war and war is chaos, they are taught to suppress critical thinking and compassion and ACT IN THE MOMENT. Just follow the order. In most human beings, there is a natural, innate or taught, hesitancy to take human life. For the military to be effective in its deployment, this is trained out of recruits.

That doesn't mean they then become kill crazy terminators or anything of the sort. I was still a fully capable and rational person who did not want to murder people when I decided not to sign. My father is a 21+ year vet who also is far from a "killing machine" despite the fact that he did take part in lethal engagements. My point is that in your average citizen, even in a state of chaos, there is a strong instinct and disincentive to kill your fellow citizen. In military personnel who function on snap command, this is considerably less so. This makes them more dangerous.

You also ignore the fact that there are MANY, MANY more people in this country who in the event of lawlessness would want and forge their own collective means of protection and safety than those who would want to use the opportunity to riot, rape, pillage, etc. We're a country of 300 million people, you think we're all crazy? Either you live in a different country than I do or you have am excessively grim view of humanity.

Add that to the fact that a government maintaining power via deployment of the military against its own people is antithetical to everything America and is by definition a MILITARY DICTATORSHIP, a TYRANNY. If you're willing to accept that form of government, you have no respect for your own liberty.


As for the financial crisis and depression caused by deregulation that allowed massive speculation that inflates profits on money that does not actually exist and outright fraud, not a few thousand defaulted home loans, the answer is complex and time-consuming and deserves more time than I have on Christmas Eve. I'll be back within the next few days to offer a thorough and well-sourced explanation of how the home loan argument is a vain and flimsy attempt to push this crisis of corporate greed on the favorite whipping boy of the unfettered capitalism proponents --poor minorities --when it is in fact very clearly the fault of their speculation and unethical disregard for the impact their actions would have on the rest of the country.

Ya cause you did not write this right?

Once martial law is declared, there is not a thing stopping a well-armed, well-trained military who have already intentionally and systematically had much of their critical thinking and human compassion trained out of them from killing any and all persons at their discretion.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Our military is reminded yearly that they have to obey LAWFUL orders and that if they chose to obey unlawful orders the defense " I was just following orders" won't work. But ya they are brainwashed indeed.

Our troops in the current wars are well aware if they obey illegal or improper orders THEY will be charged and tried for not doing the legally correct thing. Your claim that the American military will just blindly follow orders is moronic and incorrect.

 

[sparky]

so lemme see, we have the right blaming the left, the left blaming the right, a faction that just won't accept our governance has contingency plans to come down on it's populance, even though it's documented in plain day, and another faction that maintains it'll rise up against a governance that violates them, then the most prevalant faction that believes they're part of the home team no matter what here....


dunno 'bout you folks, but that really seems to fit the term anarchy to me, at least in as far as political stripe goes

just add bad times, bake for a year or so, and i'd say those fema camps will be full of us blaming each other for being there....

 

[eots]

you got it sparky

 

[QUENTIN]

Ya cause you did not write this right?

Once martial law is declared, there is not a thing stopping a well-armed, well-trained military who have already intentionally and systematically had much of their critical thinking and human compassion trained out of them from killing any and all persons at their discretion.

Of course I did. I stand by that, it's true. It is also very different than your mischaracterization that I said:

American troops have... been trained not to think or feel or turned into killing machines.

Demonstrably different, and further differentiated by the more thorough explanation your post triggered.

Our military is reminded yearly that they have to obey LAWFUL orders and that if they chose to obey unlawful orders the defense " I was just following orders" won't work. But ya they are brainwashed indeed.

Our troops in the current wars are well aware if they obey illegal or improper orders THEY will be charged and tried for not doing the legally correct thing. Your claim that the American military will just blindly follow orders is moronic and incorrect.

That's the whole point of why this is a problem. With this action, which disregards Posse Commitus, the orders to fire upon the citizenry of the United States would be legal. The discretion is now in the hands of the president to decide how they can be used and order them as such.

Although unconstitutional and in direct violation of other laws, this presents a legal challenge that once the president declares a state of emergency or civil unrest, any orders he gives are legal.

No, I don't think the military would wage open war on the American people. But ordered to fire upon and kill a peaceful crowd only exercising their rights? Especially if that group was openly calling for or attempting to remove a tyrannical government? Well 230 years of history show they're more than willing to do that when ordered to and many hundreds of innocent murder victims are the results (see the Great Railroad Strike of 1877, the 1913 Ludlow Massacre, 1927 Columbia Mine Massacre, all the way down to Kent State).

In other words, military men are more likely, ready, willing, and able to kill their fellow citizens than your average civilian and as such (and for many other reasons) martial law is a scarier and more dangerous proposition than lawlessness coupled with a lack of conventional police/military order.

Military men acting independently and utilizing their training, leadership, etc not beholden to the orders of the president and higher ranking government/military officials to help out in the chaos? That would actually be beneficial and appreciated in such a situation, they would make natural heads of such neighborhood watch/crime prevention groups, but that'ss very different than what is being prepared for.

 

[QUENTIN]

so lemme see, we have the right blaming the left, the left blaming the right, a faction that just won't accept our governance has contingency plans to come down on it's populance, even though it's documented in plain day, and another faction that maintains it'll rise up against a governance that violates them, then the most prevalant faction that believes they're part of the home team no matter what here....


dunno 'bout you folks, but that really seems to fit the term anarchy to me, at least in as far as political stripe goes

just add bad times, bake for a year or so, and i'd say those fema camps will be full of us blaming each other for being there....

Yup. As long as we can keep in-fighting, we won't notice our "democracy" is turning into an open military dictatorship.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Yup you dumb shits are beyond help. Lets let the Country drop into Anarchy while the military sits idly by cause you see conspiracy every where.

IF the Government acts without cause the military will split. The American people will rise up and oppose the Government and all those guns we own will come in handy.

Some of the military will follow the Government and some won't. Assuming the action is uncalled for. The military are not blind and stupid and they are made up of loyal American citizens.

But you go on thinking our Military are a bunch of mercenaries trained to just blindly follow orders.

 

[dilloduck]

Yup you dumb shits are beyond help. Lets let the Country drop into Anarchy while the military sits idly by cause you see conspiracy every where.

IF the Government acts without cause the military will split. The American people will rise up and oppose the Government and all those guns we own will come in handy.

Some of the military will follow the Government and some won't. Assuming the action is uncalled for. The military are not blind and stupid and they are made up of loyal American citizens.

But you go on thinking our Military are a bunch of mercenaries trained to just blindly follow orders.

Agreed--way beyond help. And zero understanding of our military.

 

[eots]

Yup you dumb shits are beyond help. Lets let the Country drop into Anarchy while the military sits idly by cause you see conspiracy every where.

IF the Government acts without cause the military will split. The American people will rise up and oppose the Government and all those guns we own will come in handy.

Some of the military will follow the Government and some won't. Assuming the action is uncalled for. The military are not blind and stupid and they are made up of loyal American citizens.

But you go on thinking our Military are a bunch of mercenaries trained to just blindly follow orders.

I tend to agree with you..but I belive they are going to try it anyway..and they already have you half way there with statements like... assuming the action is uncalled for....

 

[sparky]

Yup. As long as we can keep in-fighting, we won't notice our "democracy" is turning into an open military dictatorship.

seems to be what most people want do, instead of looking upstairs, or even trying to understand the real movers and shakers that shape our lives

myself, i'd say take a good hard look at the disparity here, that usually creates lots of unrest in any other country experiencing the same problems

IF the Government acts without cause the military will split. The American people will rise up and oppose the Government and all those guns we own will come in handy.

and hard times isn't a bona fide cause Sarge? people loosing their homes, jobs, watching their kids go hungry?

seems i can think of a few countries experiencing that phenomenon right now, it's simple human nature to rebel when things suck

so i gotta ask, do you think Americans are any different?

don't you think the military will 'keep the peace' by any means necessary?

and bout those guns Sarge, i really gotta tell you that that's beyond humerous to think anything i own (and i'll bet i'm armed better than most) could take on what the military has

oh and, does anyone here think that after the Patriot Act, you know the law that can put any of us away anytime, that our government will be full of integrity mitigating economic and/or enviromental kaos

you've been shown bona fide contingency plans, they are no secret, no conspiracy, and no surprise to anyone who forgo's the star spangled glasses here either

 

[mash107]

Yup you dumb shits are beyond help. Lets let the Country drop into Anarchy while the military sits idly by cause you see conspiracy every where.

IF the Government acts without cause the military will split. The American people will rise up and oppose the Government and all those guns we own will come in handy.

Some of the military will follow the Government and some won't. Assuming the action is uncalled for. The military are not blind and stupid and they are made up of loyal American citizens.

But you go on thinking our Military are a bunch of mercenaries trained to just blindly follow orders.

Vietnam and Iraq were uncalled for, hardly in our interests, and look where we are now. Rounding up Americans without habeas corpus is uncalled for, but look where the courts are ruling. All because we've long abandoned the Constitution. It's not a perfect Constitution, as it surely didn't safeguard against being trampled on like this one did. But the founders knew that the threats to liberty and prosperity only come from the government. Anarchy would, sadly, be a fresh breath of air as opposed to all this government. Best yet would be a Constitutional government that safeguards against threats to life, liberty and property.

Also it's not like you offer anything substantially different, in terms of policy, than your Democratic opponents. Borrowing money -is- a form of taxation, as it takes capital that would've been spent on jobs and destroys it to fund unnecessary wars-- only that it comes with a promise of being repaid, eventually. I fail to see how wasting money on a missile is anymore useful than wasting money on all those bullshit proposals Obama has in store for us. Obviously, printing money for whatever wars or large spending projects is even worse, still. Keynesian spending, by the government, is why we're going to face hard times in the next few years. We should've learned the hint from the collapse of the Soviet Union that government interventionism and wars simply doesn't produce a prosperous economy.

As far as this particular financial crisis is concerned, it was created solely by the government. Just as much as someone spiking the punch bowl at a prom w/ vodka would result into belligerently drunk kids, that otherwise would normally act in their own best interests; the Federal Reserve pumping in easy credit (with 1% interest rates in 2003), caused people to take risks they otherwise wouldn't have taken. It's not fair to blame this problem on the people that were tricked into buying a home they couldn't afford, if the government was working feverishly for that end.

Evidence:
mises.org/story/3252

Regulations are only good if they come from within. Just as one wouldn't drink on the job, for fear of losing it, that's how all markets should be. But the federal government takes away this rational fear, and tries to replace with what they think should be regulated. Hence, you ultimately end up with is a poorly regulated market, if this crisis isn't evidence enough. The recent Maddoff scandal alludes to how not only useless the government is, but harmful to our interests. If people didn't think the U.S. government had their backs in terms of eliminating fraud through the SEC, they would've paid more diligence to where they were investing their money. I sure as hell would've questioned how a fund can earn 10% annually, even during recessions, but I could see a lot of investors waiving off their concerns because of the SEC.

Laissez-faire economics is the only sensible solution to the mess created by government. I believe any unrest will come from an economic collapse that cold be avoided by just following the Constituion!