U.S in decline

[disciple2184]

By Alan Silverleib
CNN

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- A government report released Thursday paints an alarming picture of an unstable future for international relations defined by waning American influence, a fragmentation of political power and intensifying struggles for increasingly scarce natural resources.
The report aims to better inform policymakers, starting with the administration of President-elect Barack Obama .

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/11/20/global.trends.report/index.html

 

[Gunny]

* Story Highlights
* Report says China will have growing impact, second largest economy by 2025
* There will be an unprecedented global transfer of power because of oil, report says
* Indonesia, Iran, Turkey, will likely see power, desire for natural resources increase
* "Unprecedented" growth means demand for basic resources will outweigh supply
* Next Article in Politics »

By Alan Silverleib
CNN
Decrease font Decrease font
Enlarge font Enlarge font

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- A government report released Thursday paints an alarming picture of an unstable future for international relations defined by waning American influence, a fragmentation of political power and intensifying struggles for increasingly scarce natural resources.
The report aims to better inform policymakers, starting with the administration of President-elect Barack Obama .

The report aims to better inform policymakers, starting with the administration of President-elect Barack Obama .

You cannot post links until you have 15 posts on the board.

You cannot post copyrighted articles without links.

 

[William Joyce]

America is a First-World country with Third-World aspirations.

 

[disciple2184]

America is a First-World country with Third-World aspirations.

It forgot what "first world" meant a long time ago

 

[Diuretic]

Look, you might get a reality check but you won't go that far backwards, you just can't.

It's a bit like us in Aus. We're lucky in that we have a lot of resources in a big land mass with a small population. Even the idiots in our governments can't COMPLETLEY stuff things up!

You'll be okay, bit of a wobble and you'll be up and about in no time.

 

[editec]

It argues that the world is in the midst of an unprecedented "transfer of global wealth and power" -- from West to East -- that is being fueled by long-term "increases in oil and commodity prices" along with a gradual shift of manufacturing and certain service industries to Asia.

Solutions?
1. Greener energy cration and use: AND?

2. Stop FREE TRADING policies with nation which impose tariffs on our goods. FYI that's pretty much EVERY NATION WE TRADE WITH, folks.

And yet, while American power and influence are projected to decline, America's burdens are not.

"Despite the recent rise in anti-Americanism, the U.S. probably will continue to be seen as a much-needed regional balancer in the Middle East and Asia," the report notes.

Whose fault is that? OURS!

The American military will continue to be expected to play a leading role in the war against global terrorism, though the United States as a whole will be less able to "call the shots without the support of strong partnerships."

Whose fault is that? OURS!

America's biggest rival by 2025, the reports says, will be China.
"China is poised to have more impact on the world over the next 20 years than any other country," it notes.

Whose fault is that? OURS!

The report projects that China will have the world's second largest economy by 2025 and will be a leading military power.

Equally problematic for U.S. policymakers is the fact that China is expected to become the world's biggest polluter and largest importer of natural resources.

And STILL we keep giving them trade advantages. ARe our masters totally nuts? Only an investigation of their balance sheets will tell us for sure. I suspect what we would discover is their balance sheets improve as America's financial problem grow because of their stupid stupid trade policies for AMERICA.

China will not be alone, however, in terms of its desire to provide a consumption-oriented American lifestyle to a rapidly growing population. Countries such as India and, to a lesser extent, Indonesia, Iran and Turkey, will also likely see their power -- and desire for natural resources -- increase.

We have shitloads of natural resources. Of course as we're becoming a colony, a third world, one with no manufacuturing, we can expect to see those resorces shipped offshore to come back to us as finished goods later.

We have nobody to blame but our own leaders, folks.

The report predicts that, the recent economic downturn aside, "unprecedented global economic growth" will mean that the demand for basic resources such as food, water and oil "will outstrip easily available supplies" over the next decade.

They will if we continue to elect leaders who care more about the GLOBAL economy, than about the AMERICAN economy, that's for damned sure.

As an estimated 1.2 billion people are added to the world population over the next 20 years, the demand for food will rise by 50 percent, the report projects.

The lack of access to stable water supplies will also worsen due to rapid global urbanization, it says.

And if we keep bringing in illegal aliens, we will piss away the natural resources advantage that this nation is blessed with, too.

Further complicating matters is the fact that while demand for energy is projected to rise, oil and gas production will continue to be "concentrated in unstable areas," it says. The world in 2025 is therefore likely to find itself in the midst of a "fundamental energy transition away from oil toward natural gas, coal and other alternatives."

We can fix this problem the moment we get the political will to get the oiliocracy out of power, folks. there's no shortage of energy, just a shortage of political BALLS.

Such a transformation, however, may not stave off armed conflict driven largely by the struggle for scarce resources, the report says.
While conflicts are still most likely to "revolve around trade, investments, and technological innovation and acquisition," the report states that "we cannot rule out a 19th century-like scenario of arms races, territorial expansion, and military rivalries."

What a shame we will have outsourced America's ability to produce the military hardware we'll need to deal with those future problem, eh?

Terrorism is also expected to remain a major issue through 2025, though its appeal could be significantly reduced if economic and political liberalization accelerates in the Middle East.

"In the absence of employment opportunities and legal means for political expression, conditions will be ripe for disaffection, growing radicalism and possible recruitment of youths into terrorist groups," the report argues.
Adding to complications in the always-volatile Middle East will be Iran's possible acquisition of nuclear weapons, which could trigger a regional nuclear arms race, the report says. Continuing tensions between India and Pakistan also add to concerns regarding nuclear proliferation, it says.

Terrorism is the least of our problems, folks.

The report highlights the need for new technological innovation to provide "viable alternatives to fossil fuels" and overcome future food and water constraints. At the moment, "all current technologies are inadequate for replacing" traditional energy sources "on the scale needed," it says.

Not one of the above problems is insoluable IF we stop electing leaders who care more about WALL STREET than MAIN STREET.

 

[Gunny]

Look, you might get a reality check but you won't go that far backwards, you just can't.

It's a bit like us in Aus. We're lucky in that we have a lot of resources in a big land mass with a small population. Even the idiots in our governments can't COMPLETLEY stuff things up!

You'll be okay, bit of a wobble and you'll be up and about in no time.

Ha! You just don't have OUR idiots. I have faith in them. They're like recuits. They could screw up boiling water.

 

[editec]

Ha! You just don't have OUR idiots. I have faith in them. They're like recuits. They could screw up boiling water.

Ah but recruits WANT to get it right.

Our leaders talk a good game about getting it right, but then their policies suggest that they really have a hidden agenda.

 

[William Joyce]

It's a bit like us in Aus. We're lucky in that we have a lot of resources in a big land mass with a small population. Even the idiots in our governments can't COMPLETLEY stuff things up!

But our land mass is being overwhelmed by Third-Worlders who have low intelligence and primitive ways... we're going for a population of a billion if present rates continue, about 10 percent of which would be white. America is turning into a shit fondue, and whites will be fighting for their lives as in South Africa and Zimbabwe.

In your own country, the whites are just as eager to hand everything over to the brown-skins of Asia.

Seems to be a white problem. You don't see whites overrunning China.

 

[Chris]

Dr. Peter Venkman: This city is headed for a disaster of biblical proportions.

Mayor: What do you mean, "biblical"?

Dr Ray Stantz: What he means is Old Testament, Mr. Mayor, real wrath of God type stuff.

Dr. Peter Venkman: Exactly.

Dr Ray Stantz: Fire and brimstone coming down from the skies! Rivers and seas boiling!

Dr. Egon Spengler: Forty years of darkness! Earthquakes, volcanoes...

Winston Zeddemore: The dead rising from the grave!

Dr. Peter Venkman: Human sacrifice, dogs and cats living together... mass hysteria!

 

[Mad Scientist]

Dr. Peter Venkman: Human sacrifice, dogs and cats living together... mass hysteria!

I love that line! I use it every time I see an article or a poster predicting the end of America. No matter what the fearmongers say, these economic numbers aren't as bad as they were after the Carter administration. We made it through that, we'll make it through this. Have some faith people.

The other line I like to use is what Cher said in that movie "Mask" when the doctor claimed her son Rusty only had 6 months to live:
"You know, if I had dug his grave every time one of you "geniuses" said that, I'd be eatin' chop suey in fuckin' China by now!"

I love that!

 

[William Joyce]

The other line I like to use is what Cher said in that movie "Mask" when the doctor claimed her son Rusty only had 6 months to live:
"You know, if I had dug his grave every time one of you "geniuses" said that, I'd be eatin' chop suey in fuckin' China by now!"

Great movie. But he did die.

 

[Missourian]

So much of our lives is based on faith and belief. We work based on the belief we will get paid. We accept slips of green cloth as payment because we have faith in the fact that they are worth something. The stock market rises and falls based on what people believe. Our governments power is based on our faith in it.

Americans believe America is in decline, and no longer have faith in the government. It is a self-fulfilling prophecy. The belief makes it so.

 

[indago]

Missourian wrote:
---------------------------------------------------
We work based on the belief we will get paid. We accept slips of green cloth as payment because we have faith in the fact that they are worth something.
---------------------------------------------------


Actually, a worker gets a piece of paper with numbers on it. He takes it to the bank and deposits it and he gets another piece of paper with numbers on it. He may even get several pieces of paper with numbers on them. It is a numbers game, and whoever said playing the numbers was illegal?

 

[Againsheila]

Look, you might get a reality check but you won't go that far backwards, you just can't.

It's a bit like us in Aus. We're lucky in that we have a lot of resources in a big land mass with a small population. Even the idiots in our governments can't COMPLETLEY stuff things up!

You'll be okay, bit of a wobble and you'll be up and about in no time.

I sincerely doubt that. We've shipped most of our factories overseas. What saved us during WWII was that we were able to refit our factories so fast and we were basically self sufficient. We rely too much on imports now. Plus most of our government and private business are run by computers, those computers go down and everything comes to a halt. All it takes is one big EMP, and we are back to the stone age. Sadly our educational system is so bad that most highschool kids can't even add and subtract without a calculator.

 

[editec]

I sincerely doubt that. We've shipped most of our factories overseas. What saved us during WWII was that we were able to refit our factories so fast and we were basically self sufficient. We rely too much on imports now. Plus most of our government and private business are run by computers, those computers go down and everything comes to a halt. All it takes is one big EMP, and we are back to the stone age. Sadly our educational system is so bad that most highschool kids can't even add and subtract without a calculator.

What I find amusing and at the same time alarming is that much of American wealth now is based on patents and copyrights, too.

It won't take an EMF to turn us into a colony, all it will really take is the dcision of one supereconomy (like China for example) deciding that all patents and copyrights are meaningless, and poof! there goes that intellectual property advantage that so many of our master class think make them leaders of the pack.

Our master class is setting us up to become third worlders, and that's terrible.

but while they are doing that they are also making themselves entirely dependent on foreign nations playing by the rules that still give them advantages...advantages that are leargely based on those nation playing by the rules.

Take the pharmaceutical industry for example.

They're rick because other nations agree not to steal their formulas and make those med cheaper.

It take nothing more than a large enough nation telling American to go pound sand with their patent protections and copyright protections and a huge number of very wealthy (so called) American industrialists are bascially bankrupted.

We are systematically making the United States entirely dependent on the good will of other nations for its survival.

This is stupid beyond all understanding UNLESS, you ascribe to my theory that the master class is really all about the business of ending the nation state system.

If you believe that they are really about the bueinss of creating a world wide international feudal state then everything they are doing is sensible TO THEM.

ATlas shrugged folks.

Read it or read it again and understand that the person who wrote that believed that all governments were basically bad.

Bear in mind that the form of government which Ayn Rand though was best was the TSARIST RUSSIAN form of industrial feudalism.

Ayn Rand was a sick sick woman who basically hated people.

She fear democracy, thought it was a terrible idea, and if you read deeply into her novels you very quickly see just exactly how much she dispised all forms of representational government.

And SHE is the heroine of the FREE TRADERS, the Libertopians, the Austian School of economics and all those who ascribe to the theory that her so-called free markets are the best way to organizate our society.

 

[disciple2184]

But our land mass is being overwhelmed by Third-Worlders who have low intelligence and primitive ways... we're going for a population of a billion if present rates continue, about 10 percent of which would be white. America is turning into a shit fondue, and whites will be fighting for their lives as in South Africa and Zimbabwe.

In your own country, the whites are just as eager to hand everything over to the brown-skins of Asia.

Seems to be a white problem. You don't see whites overrunning China.

World wide immigration patterns are directly related to European Colonialism and Imperialism, and Capitalistic imperialism today.

 

[disciple2184]

So much of our lives is based on faith and belief. We work based on the belief we will get paid. We accept slips of green cloth as payment because we have faith in the fact that they are worth something. The stock market rises and falls based on what people believe. Our governments power is based on our faith in it.

Americans believe America is in decline, and no longer have faith in the government. It is a self-fulfilling prophecy. The belief makes it so.

that and being unemployed and getting evicted. The mind does not create "reality" only responds to it

 

[Tech_Esq]

I think some of this is just natural evolution from an unnatural state of affairs. Meaning, Post-WWII the US was in an unnatural position as the sole surviving industrial power with all of its infrastructure in tact and operating at peak production. We pumped money into Europe and Japan as a bulwurk against communism, but that also had the effect of creating markets. With those economies slow rising, where would they turn to get most of there goods? The US of course. Through the years this has become less and less true.

The reasons for that are manifold. Our unions and trade policies made American labor economically inefficient. Bascially, we had a choice, put up trade barriers and do little if any trade overseas. This would have protected our inefficient labor and our old factories from international competition and pressure to improve. We would have had a relatively (as compared to now) small industrial labor force as the consumption of even the US is finite. But, the industrial base would have been protected. International outrage with these policies would have been high as we damaged the economies of those other countries (at least prevented free trade from improving them).

Aside from labor and trade policies, these other industrial economies were unnaturally stunted by WWII and were always going to rebuild to larger and stronger economies than the ones that were destroyed. In addition, there are economies that have been developing for and are finally catching up while the world recovered from the war. India, China, Indonesia and Russia are among these. Of course, Russia and China were themselves stunted by their experiments with communism and the wasting of vast amount of human resources because of it. But, this was a pressure that was going to happen no matter what.

One bright side that kept us ahead of where this convergence might have been expected to occur was technology. Our ability to innovate and create new products that the world market desired, allowed us to stay one step ahead even as our ability to produce the end products of this innovation evaporated. This is because even though we produce a widget in Taiwan, the income from that production returns to the US. It helps their industrial base but they own nothing. Similar to our relationship to Toyota, Honda, BMW and Mercedes plants here. We still have lots of industrial plants here, we just don't own any of them. Labor ought to ask itself why that is.

I'm one of those who believes that we can leverage the impending contention for limited resources to innovate solutions. We know energy supplies will be extremely limited, so let's create cheap nuclear, effective solar and wind, innovate in transportation and uses of new types of energy and sell it to the world. The same applies to water. We need to innovate in the area of desalinization plants, water catchment systems etc. and sell that to the world.

If we can do that, we will again stay ahead of parity. But, the other thing this brings up is that other countries in the world need to step up and start paying for world programs. World defensive operations, world hunger programs, medical care and the rest. As economic parity is achieved, the US responsibility for these should be lessened. And, of course, US leadership strategies should be modified to recognize this parity. This will give us the oportunity to focus our resources in a way that we haven't been able to do in the last century.

 

[editec]

I think some of this is just natural evolution from an unnatural state of affairs. Meaning, Post-WWII the US was in an unnatural position as the sole surviving industrial power with all of its infrastructure in tact and operating at peak production.

I concur. Much of the industrialized world was in ruins. plus our allies were basically broke, and they owed the USA enormous debts, too

We pumped money into Europe and Japan as a bulwurk against communism, but that also had the effect of creating markets.

With those economies slow rising, where would they turn to get most of there goods? The US of course. Through the years this has become less and less true.

Good theory, not really supported by the trade numbers though.

For a VERY LIMITED number of industries, yes they did get stuff from us.

Which ones?

Mostly our arms industries. But no real benefit came of that because we the US taxpayers (many of who were working in those antiquated US industries at the times) PAID for that hardware they were buying from our arms merchants, even while those same American Taxpayers were ALSO paying for those nations security, too.

Nice for Japan and Germany but one that was terribly, expensive for us as a whole.

The reasons for that are manifold. Our unions and trade policies made American labor economically inefficient.

Inefficient? We had the most efficient industries on earth until we BOUGHT other nations their newer industries. We could have invested that money in the USA but that didn't jibe with our foreign policy.

WE BOUGHT most of the so called allies we had during the cold war. We bought them by giving away our industrial base.

Bascially, we had a choice, put up trade barriers and do little if any trade overseas.

You mean EXACTLY like they did and STILL do to us, you mean?

Oh boo hoo hoo. Look at the balance of trade and get back to me would you?

This would have protected our inefficient labor and our old factories from international competition and pressure to improve. We would have had a relatively (as compared to now) small industrial labor force as the consumption of even the US is finite.

The percentage of industrial workers in America was 30% then. It's 6% now.

Everything you say makes sense except it is not supported by the numbers, amigo. It's a grand theory, but its not true.

But, the industrial base would have been protected. International outrage with these policies would have been high as we damaged the economies of those other countries (at least prevented free trade from improving them).

Where the fuck is it written that its the reponsibility of some machinist in Indiana to give up his job so that a machine in Yokohama can have it?

Aside from labor and trade policies, these other industrial economies were unnaturally stunted by WWII and were always going to rebuild to larger and stronger economies than the ones that were destroyed.

Yes.

In addition, there are economies that have been developing for and are finally catching up while the world recovered from the war. India, China, Indonesia and Russia are among these.

Yes.

Of course, Russia and China were themselves stunted by their experiments with communism and the wasting of vast amount of human resources because of it. But, this was a pressure that was going to happen no matter what.

Yes

One bright side that kept us ahead of where this convergence might have been expected to occur was technology. Our ability to innovate and create new products that the world market desired, allowed us to stay one step ahead even as our ability to produce the end products of this innovation evaporated.

Didn't allow us to stay ahead, it merely give us still another industry to ship overseas after we'd perfected it.

How many computer chips or computers are actually made here, now?

This is because even though we produce a widget in Taiwan, the income from that production returns to the US.

Does it? No the profits return to a very very select number of Americans...who may or may not actually pay any taxes on it.

The average American gets diddlie-squat from those Tiwanese widgits

It helps their industrial base but they own nothing.

They don't huh? In most cases they own more than 50% of those industies, and now they OWN the skilled work force because their workers are doing the jobs instead of American workers.

It helps their industrial base, and the multiplier effect which an industrial base creates. The multiplier effect is even greater than the industrial base, and we don't get SHIT from that, do we?

Meanwhile their workers do NOT pay US taxes, our workers lose those VITAL SKILLS, and whole regions of our nation sit and rust.

Similar to our relationship to Toyota, Honda, BMW and Mercedes plants here. We still have lots of industrial plants here, we just don't own any of them. Labor ought to ask itself why that is.

Where are the PARTS for their cars made, champ? In America? No. All that happens is their cars are ASSEMBLED here. They're STILL mostly making the parts in Japan and Germany and Korea, amigo.


Why? Because their leaders are nationalists, that's why.

I'm one of those who believes that we can leverage the impending contention for limited resources to innovate solutions. We know energy supplies will be extremely limited, so let's create cheap nuclear, effective solar and wind, innovate in transportation and uses of new types of energy and sell it to the world. The same applies to water. We need to innovate in the area of desalinization plants, water catchment systems etc. and sell that to the world.

Good advise. Shame we bankrupted ourselves instead of investing in America, huh?

If we can do that, we will again stay ahead of parity. But, the other thing this brings up is that other countries in the world need to step up and start paying for world programs. World defensive operations, world hunger programs, medical care and the rest.

Why should they? They realize that American leadership is going to do that for them.

As economic parity is achieved, the US responsibility for these should be lessened. And, of course, US leadership strategies should be modified to recognize this parity. This will give us the oportunity to focus our resources in a way that we haven't been able to do in the last century.

Pal I fear we are all going to live long enough to see that happen.

How long do you suppose we can be a world power with no industrial base, bankrupted governments, Federal state and local, one of the the worst edcuational system in the first world, no health care for our people and so forth?

What many of us have been mistaking in some others of us here as socialism has really been our raging NATIONALISM.

But many of us have been poisoned with a load of economic horseshit disguised as ADAM SMITH economic wisdom.

Likewise I not the enormous kneejerkly stupid anti-government, anti-democratic Randian blather still enthralls many of you as being great wisdom, too.

Many of our fellow American have not only bought into that horseshit, but they're absolutely THRILLED that MOST Americans are going broke, just because we're not (not yet at least)

Shadenfreuden much?

You bet your ass that's exactly the vile conceit that many of us right here on this board examplify every damned day.

And the masters play on these class traitors' childish conceit like a Strataverious, too don't they?

A lot of us have bought a very complex theory which is completely and totally WRONG.

We haven't read Adam Smith, yet we can quote a parced out sentence or two which supports something that ADAM SMITH did NOT support.

ADAM SMITH was an economic nationalist, folks.

ADAM SMITH no more believed in FREE TRADE than King GEORGE III did.

When he talks about free trade what he's REALLY talking about is not trying to make ENGLAND a nation which grows its own cork, or grows its own GRAPES.

But he was a member of the government of England.

The very same government which OUTLAWED INDUSTRY in Nother America.

Why?

Because he KNEW what apparently some of us do not...that a nation needs to foster its own industrial development.

Not ship it to another nation as we have been doing, but protect it for its own development.