U.S getting spyed on by ally AGAIN?!!!

[marsnow]

Are you upset that this might have happened or that it wasn't your Messiah Obama doing it? You and him both just hate them Dirty Jews.

good non-response. Thjey were caught spying on this great nation AFTER they said they would stop after 9-11. They were also caught selling U.S. military hardware secrets to China. Care to address those two issues? If not, GTFO of the thread & stop wasting my time w/ your weak deflections son

You will of course have to forgive me if I dont believe a source that hates Jews as valid.

All three faiths are outdated. The stories were nice while they lasted but its time for all of us to move on including our jewish human brothers and sisters. As Disney says: Let's all just let it go, let it go, can't hold us back anymore.

If George Washington was alive today you would probably say he hates the Jews.

"It is our true policy to steer clear of permanent alliance with any portion of the foreign world": it was George Washington's Farewell Address to us. The inaugural pledge of Thomas Jefferson was no less clear: "Peace, commerce, and honest friendship with all nations-entangling alliances with none."

 

[Beelzebub]

Many in USA saw Va'anunu as a hero, while we hated him...

I really really don't get Israel on this one.

A nuclear weapon can be two things. A highly effective deterrent, or a method to destroy very many people and a significant amount of land, with non-combatants impacted for decades.

To have the nukes and keep them secret meant their only used could be for a surprise attack.

Wow! Is it really the case that Israel wanted to engineer a situation where it could carry out a nuclear surprise attack on its enemies? Talk about an immoral nation!

When you want to change things you do them from the inside.

Just like you don't appreciate people telling your secrets from inside in America, we don't appreciate them telling things which are not always based on truths, from Israel

Israel if wished could launch whatever, it could by now, it didn't because it knows things don't work this way. Trying to pain it like we're to launch a bomb on countries of populations is stupid and not true.

You know as well as anyone that even with 200 to 500 nukes Israel could not kill more enemies than it made, it the plan were to indiscriminately bomb cities.

What it would have needed would have been a replay of the Yom Kippur war.
If nations didn't know about the nukes, an approximation of that could be engineered.

So I will ask directly:
What is the point of having a nuclear capability in excess of 200 weapons, and keeping it quiet, if not to use the weapons as a surprise attack / counter attack?

Could have been a way to clear Gaza, for sure. Tell me there is a better theoretical reason to keep 'em secret. Please.

 

[thanatos144]

facts are facts. Their spying record is well documented as well as the military tech transferrence to China but you knew that right

http://defensetech.org/2013/12/24/report-israel-passes-u-s-military-technology-to-china/

Go post your blatherings on someone else's thread who will buy it.

Again I dont see how you get Israel was doing this.

 

[Beelzebub]

Are you deploying the 'Shaggy' defence, Thanatos?

 

[thanatos144]

Are you deploying the 'Shaggy' defence, Thanatos?

It is so hard for you haters to use logic

tapatalk post

 

[Dot Com]

Are you deploying the 'Shaggy' defence, Thanatos?

he's basically saying that they're beyond reproach DESPITE their documented track record. Know what that makes him? an accomplice (leagal term)

Seiously son, everyone here knows you're a thumper & you only side w/ them for the same reason Raygun did to bring about their destruction so your sky pixie's rapture can occur. Every school child knows this.

Sooo..... your subjectivity is noted. Go sell your biased views somewhere else because this OP aint buyin' 'em

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

I really really don't get Israel on this one.

A nuclear weapon can be two things. A highly effective deterrent, or a method to destroy very many people and a significant amount of land, with non-combatants impacted for decades.

To have the nukes and keep them secret meant their only used could be for a surprise attack.

Wow! Is it really the case that Israel wanted to engineer a situation where it could carry out a nuclear surprise attack on its enemies? Talk about an immoral nation!

Does Israel have nuclear weapons? If she does she is only going to use them if someone tries to over run her borders in order to decimate the population and take Israel. What is the problem? Leave Israel alone and no one gets hurt.

It's like a big bully complaining his victim has a gun to protect himself with and it just isn't fair!!

link?

You're a christian thumper anyway so EVERYONE knows why people like you & Reagan supported Israel to hasten their destruction to bring about the rapture. You people & your sky pixies

What is this people like me stuff? You think only Christians support Israel? You couldn't be more wrong about that. Why do you think the Jews are abandoning the Democrat Party in increasingly large numbers? Because the Democrat party has turned on the Jews. It's very hurtful to the Jewish people that the DNC has taken their money, their hard work, their good ideas and then turned around and state at the Dem. convention... we do not suppport Jerusalem as the capitol of Israel..... we've decided to leave Israels concerns out of the equation... this is not the way we treat our friends. You should know better! tsk... tsk.... How many votes did it take? Three? To feign / eek out some sort of faint support? And the Jews got the message loud and clear on that one. They are very bright people.

oh! And I don't believe in the rapture. It isn't in the bible anywhere..... so much for that one. Do you have anything else for me or is this it?

If it is? Move along....

Next!

 

[marsnow]

Does Israel have nuclear weapons? If she does she is only going to use them if someone tries to over run her borders in order to decimate the population and take Israel. What is the problem? Leave Israel alone and no one gets hurt.

It's like a big bully complaining his victim has a gun to protect himself with and it just isn't fair!!

link?

You're a christian thumper anyway so EVERYONE knows why people like you & Reagan supported Israel to hasten their destruction to bring about the rapture. You people & your sky pixies

What is this people like me stuff? You think only Christians support Israel? You couldn't be more wrong about that. Why do you think the Jews are abandoning the Democrat Party in increasingly large numbers? Because the Democrat party has turned on the Jews. It's very hurtful to the Jewish people that the DNC has taken their money, their hard work, their good ideas and then turned around and state at the Dem. convention... we do not suppport Jerusalem as the capitol of Israel..... we've decided to leave Israels concerns out of the equation... this is not the way we treat our friends. You should know better! tsk... tsk.... oh! And I don't believe in the rapture. It isn't in the bible anywhere..... so much for that one. Do you have anything else for me or is this it?

If it is? Move along....

Next!

Factually incorrect.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

I really really don't get Israel on this one.

A nuclear weapon can be two things. A highly effective deterrent, or a method to destroy very many people and a significant amount of land, with non-combatants impacted for decades.

To have the nukes and keep them secret meant their only used could be for a surprise attack.

Wow! Is it really the case that Israel wanted to engineer a situation where it could carry out a nuclear surprise attack on its enemies? Talk about an immoral nation!

When you want to change things you do them from the inside.

Just like you don't appreciate people telling your secrets from inside in America, we don't appreciate them telling things which are not always based on truths, from Israel

Israel if wished could launch whatever, it could by now, it didn't because it knows things don't work this way. Trying to pain it like we're to launch a bomb on countries of populations is stupid and not true.

You know as well as anyone that even with 200 to 500 nukes Israel could not kill more enemies than it made, it the plan were to indiscriminately bomb cities.

What it would have needed would have been a replay of the Yom Kippur war.
If nations didn't know about the nukes, an approximation of that could be engineered.

So I will ask directly:
What is the point of having a nuclear capability in excess of 200 weapons, and keeping it quiet, if not to use the weapons as a surprise attack / counter attack?

Could have been a way to clear Gaza, for sure. Tell me there is a better theoretical reason to keep 'em secret. Please.

Where is your evidence that Israel has in excess of 200 weapons? This is all speculation - there is no sense in discussing such hypothetical situations, is there?

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

link?

You're a christian thumper anyway so EVERYONE knows why people like you & Reagan supported Israel to hasten their destruction to bring about the rapture. You people & your sky pixies

What is this people like me stuff? You think only Christians support Israel? You couldn't be more wrong about that. Why do you think the Jews are abandoning the Democrat Party in increasingly large numbers? Because the Democrat party has turned on the Jews. It's very hurtful to the Jewish people that the DNC has taken their money, their hard work, their good ideas and then turned around and state at the Dem. convention... we do not suppport Jerusalem as the capitol of Israel..... we've decided to leave Israels concerns out of the equation... this is not the way we treat our friends. You should know better! tsk... tsk.... oh! And I don't believe in the rapture. It isn't in the bible anywhere..... so much for that one. Do you have anything else for me or is this it?

If it is? Move along....

Next!

Factually incorrect.

I knew that was coming which is why I pulled up this video for you. The DNC voted 3 times because they were divided straight down the middle on whether to acknowledge Jerusalem as the capitol of Israel or not. [ame=http://youtu.be/cncbOEoQbOg]Amidst Boos And Multiple Votes, DNC Reverses Position And Reinstates Jerusalem - YouTube[/ame]

Listen for the yes vote and the no vote... notice it's impossible to tell yes or no.. they are divided. Guess which side the Jews were on for that vote, Doll? That's right. You have anything to refute this evidence with? If not - it would be you that is factually incorrect.

Keeping it real here. Later, Gator!

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

This is why my Democrat Jewish friends are voting Republican. They stayed registered as Dems but vote Republican. It's becoming a big trend. Wait until 2014 elections. You're going to see what I'm talking about more then. Alot of your career politicians offended the wrong people and are about to be put out. Expect some big changes. Huge ( actually )

 

[Lipush]

I really really don't get Israel on this one.

A nuclear weapon can be two things. A highly effective deterrent, or a method to destroy very many people and a significant amount of land, with non-combatants impacted for decades.

To have the nukes and keep them secret meant their only used could be for a surprise attack.

Wow! Is it really the case that Israel wanted to engineer a situation where it could carry out a nuclear surprise attack on its enemies? Talk about an immoral nation!

When you want to change things you do them from the inside.

Just like you don't appreciate people telling your secrets from inside in America, we don't appreciate them telling things which are not always based on truths, from Israel

Israel if wished could launch whatever, it could by now, it didn't because it knows things don't work this way. Trying to pain it like we're to launch a bomb on countries of populations is stupid and not true.

You know as well as anyone that even with 200 to 500 nukes Israel could not kill more enemies than it made, it the plan were to indiscriminately bomb cities.

What it would have needed would have been a replay of the Yom Kippur war.
If nations didn't know about the nukes, an approximation of that could be engineered.

So I will ask directly:
What is the point of having a nuclear capability in excess of 200 weapons, and keeping it quiet, if not to use the weapons as a surprise attack / counter attack?

Could have been a way to clear Gaza, for sure. Tell me there is a better theoretical reason to keep 'em secret. Please.

There are things which are in the "need to know" basis, so I'm not trying to pretend I know them or interested in them, so if you're looking for some straight answer regarding them, I'm afraid you're not gonna get it from me.

Had I known, I wouldn't have shared, anywhay, so...

But I'm not sure about the "Cleaning Gaza" part. Gaza is a thorn in our behinds, we know that. But we know there are blameless civilians among them. We don't wish to harm them, we're not Assad.

And besided that, it'll be naive to think we don't have a drawer plan somewhere. It's a known fact we have informants. Who knows what are the plans.

Simply bombing it, besides the obvious which is- it's a horrible thing to do, even with them being enemies, will also be foolish.

We need to learn to use Gaza to our advantage against the enemy. Simply bombing? It'll be such a waste.

 

[Kondor3]

Many in USA saw Va'anunu as a hero, while we hated him...

I really really don't get Israel on this one.

A nuclear weapon can be two things. A highly effective deterrent, or a method to destroy very many people and a significant amount of land, with non-combatants impacted for decades.

To have the nukes and keep them secret meant their only used could be for a surprise attack.

Wow! Is it really the case that Israel wanted to engineer a situation where it could carry out a nuclear surprise attack on its enemies? Talk about an immoral nation!

Nonsense.

A nuclear weapon can be many things, not just two things.

Your narrow range of served-up possibilities and your interpretation merely reinforce your own preconceived and biased notions and agenda.

There are a variety of other likely interpretations, equally valid and compelling.

Here's one:

Possessing a nuclear arsenal, about which little is known with any certainty, results in outsiders being obliged to deal with a case of...

Fear of the Unknown...

Potential enemies are not certain what you have, and how many, and in what mode(s) you are willing to use them, and by what criteria you are willing to release them for use.

Not knowing, it is safer not to provoke or attack at all.

Lacking provocation or outright attack, a modicum of peace is maintained, on the macro level.

Convenient.

Economical.

Practical.

Low-key.

And, most delightfully, quite probably the closest to the actual truth - actual Israeli strategic intentions - concerning their motives for keeping all that close to the vest.

Secondarily...

If you formally 'fess-up' to having a nuclear arsenal, right away, you've got ankle-biters in the international community, yammering about allowing inspectors into the country, to evaluate your arsenal.

Which destroys the mystique you've built-up around your arsenal.

Which destroys the Fear of the Unknown illustrated above.

Why would they willingly surrender that advantage?

Answer: There is no reason, with advantages sufficient to offset the loss of Fear of the Unknown.

In their shoes, I'd play it exactly the way they're playing it.

 

[Dot Com]

This is why my Democrat Jewish friends are voting Republican. They stayed registered as Dems but vote Republican. It's becoming a big trend. Wait until 2014 elections. You're going to see what I'm talking about more then. Alot of your career politicians offended the wrong people and are about to be put out. Expect some big changes. Huge ( actually )

"offended the wrong people"? Thanks for the rw SOCON POV

Those "people" are sucking the life blood out of this once great republic, through espionage & double-dealing, to benefit a country OTHER THAN THE United STATES of AMERICA & SOCONs, LIKE YOURSELF, are running interference for them simply because of..... why exactly are you doing it? [MENTION=40845]Jeremiah[/MENTION]

 

[Kondor3]

When you want to change things you do them from the inside.

Just like you don't appreciate people telling your secrets from inside in America, we don't appreciate them telling things which are not always based on truths, from Israel

Israel if wished could launch whatever, it could by now, it didn't because it knows things don't work this way. Trying to pain it like we're to launch a bomb on countries of populations is stupid and not true.

You know as well as anyone that even with 200 to 500 nukes Israel could not kill more enemies than it made, it the plan were to indiscriminately bomb cities.

What it would have needed would have been a replay of the Yom Kippur war.
If nations didn't know about the nukes, an approximation of that could be engineered.

So I will ask directly:
What is the point of having a nuclear capability in excess of 200 weapons, and keeping it quiet, if not to use the weapons as a surprise attack / counter attack?

Could have been a way to clear Gaza, for sure. Tell me there is a better theoretical reason to keep 'em secret. Please.

There are things which are in the "need to know" basis, so I'm not trying to pretend I know them or interested in them, so if you're looking for some straight answer regarding them, I'm afraid you're not gonna get it from me.

Had I known, I wouldn't have shared, anywhay, so...

But I'm not sure about the "Cleaning Gaza" part. Gaza is a thorn in our behinds, we know that. But we know there are blameless civilians among them. We don't wish to harm them, we're not Assad.

And besided that, it'll be naive to think we don't have a drawer plan somewhere. It's a known fact we have informants. Who knows what are the plans.

Simply bombing it, besides the obvious which is- it's a horrible thing to do, even with them being enemies, will also be foolish.

We need to learn to use Gaza to our advantage against the enemy. Simply bombing? It'll be such a waste.

Nicely played, Lipush.

There is no way that the Jews of Israel will unleash nuclear weapons upon the Palestinians.

The Jews are far more humane than that, and far more humane than their adversary(ies).

Anyone with an ounce of common sense understands that the Israeli nuclear arsenal is Strategic rather than Tactical.

To be used only in extremis, under a handful of near-catastrophic conditions, as a last resort.

 

[Darkwind]

Well shit this administration spy's on everybody and everything so I guess turnabout is fair play... eh?

"Two wrongs make a right" school of thought

Where do you come up with the claptrap that it is wrong?

Every nation has the right to look after its best interests.

People act like spying doesn't happen except for those countries they don't like.

Here is a hint. Everyone is doing it, against everyone else.

 

[Beelzebub]

We need to learn to use Gaza to our advantage against the enemy. Simply bombing? It'll be such a waste.

I hope you mean "It'd be such a waste", that than "It'll be such a waste."

Well, I would say converting enemies reduces them faster than killing them. And Israel kills innocent Gazans almost daily.

Ok, so you don't KNOW the strategic purpose of Israel's nuclear arsenal, but unless you dispute the two purposes I propose (known & a deterrent or unknown for surprise attack) then your expressed anger at Vanunu remains unexplained and seemingly illogical.

I shan't press, but it just seems very odd.

 

[montelatici]

So, Americans that support Israel are not concerned about Israel selling US military secrets to China. Interesting.

 

[Kondor3]

So, Americans that support Israel are not concerned about Israel selling US military secrets to China. Interesting.

And you saw this where, again?

My post No. 46 - from an American who supports Israel - expresses a great deal of concern about the possibility of Israel selling US military secrets to China.

And others here have expressed genuine concern, as well.

But most are looking for better data than has been served-up here to date.

Meanwhile...

Your latest 'Divide and Conquer' initiative isn't doing very well so far, is it?

You keep trying to drive a wedge between the United States and Israel.

But, so far, all you've gotten for your trouble is a Wedgie.

 

[montelatici]

I was responding to post no. 156, which reflects the position of many of the US Israel Firsters and all the non-US supporters of Israel. You have a minority position on the issue.