U.S getting spyed on by ally AGAIN?!!!

[Kondor3]

I was responding to post no. 156, which reflects the position of many of the US Israel Firsters and all the non-US supporters of Israel. You have a minority position on the issue.

I have yet to see an American here who is loyal to Israel first and to America second.

 

[RoccoR]

montelatici, et al,

Hummm... yes it is an interesting association you throw my way.

I had not heard this. Can you give me a source so I may look at the context?

"The sudden and uncontrolled release of containment could have incalculable repercussions that could spread well beyond the present zone of control. "

That is almost exactly what Hitler said about containing the "Communist Jews", and how he was saving Western civilization from socialist and communist insurgents and terrorists. Interesting.

(COMMENT)

In any event, the nature and scope of the potential threat is not diminished. In fact it is demonstrated quite frequently by the Hostile Arab Palestinians (Jihadist and Fedayeen). You cannot deny that they have components that are terrorists, insurgents, jihadists, fedayeen, would be freedom fighters, wannabe martyrs, and third party Islamic actors. You cannot deny that the HoAP openly teach children the ways of the insurgent and suicide bomber. They are what they are ... a threat to regional peace and security.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[toastman]

We need to learn to use Gaza to our advantage against the enemy. Simply bombing? It'll be such a waste.

I hope you mean "It'd be such a waste", that than "It'll be such a waste."

Well, I would say converting enemies reduces them faster than killing them. And Israel kills innocent Gazans almost daily.

Ok, so you don't KNOW the strategic purpose of Israel's nuclear arsenal, but unless you dispute the two purposes I propose (known & a deterrent or unknown for surprise attack) then your expressed anger at Vanunu remains unexplained and seemingly illogical.

I shan't press, but it just seems very odd.

'Israel kills innocent Gazans almost daily'

Why do you insist on making up bullshit like this?

 

[marsnow]

We need to learn to use Gaza to our advantage against the enemy. Simply bombing? It'll be such a waste.

I hope you mean "It'd be such a waste", that than "It'll be such a waste."

Well, I would say converting enemies reduces them faster than killing them. And Israel kills innocent Gazans almost daily.

Ok, so you don't KNOW the strategic purpose of Israel's nuclear arsenal, but unless you dispute the two purposes I propose (known & a deterrent or unknown for surprise attack) then your expressed anger at Vanunu remains unexplained and seemingly illogical.

I shan't press, but it just seems very odd.

'Israel kills innocent Gazans almost daily'

Why do you insist on making up bullshit like this?

Ummm. Really? Would it make a difference to you if Israel was killing gazans everyday? I get the sense that folks on this board support Israel not because they are peaceful and nice to palestinians but for other reasons.

 

[Kondor3]

I hope you mean "It'd be such a waste", that than "It'll be such a waste."

Well, I would say converting enemies reduces them faster than killing them. And Israel kills innocent Gazans almost daily.

Ok, so you don't KNOW the strategic purpose of Israel's nuclear arsenal, but unless you dispute the two purposes I propose (known & a deterrent or unknown for surprise attack) then your expressed anger at Vanunu remains unexplained and seemingly illogical.

I shan't press, but it just seems very odd.

'Israel kills innocent Gazans almost daily'

Why do you insist on making up bullshit like this?

Ummm. Really? Would it make a difference to you if Israel was killing gazans everyday? I get the sense that folks on this board support Israel not because they are peaceful and nice to palestinians but for other reasons.

Never mind the deflection.

IS Israel killing innocent Gazans almost daily?

Yes or No?

 

[marsnow]

'Israel kills innocent Gazans almost daily'

Why do you insist on making up bullshit like this?

Ummm. Really? Would it make a difference to you if Israel was killing gazans everyday? I get the sense that folks on this board support Israel not because they are peaceful and nice to palestinians but for other reasons.

Never mind the deflection.

IS Israel killing innocent Gazans almost daily?

Yes or No?

I don't know the truth honestly. Did they attack it in operation caste lead? yes.

Its irrelevant to whether you support Israel or not. They have engaged in 4-8 major wars in the past 60 years and have killed various people labeled as terrorists. So why would anyone care if they killed a few more in Gaza? The argument most repeated here is Israel is a perfect ally, America needs to support it more in its conflicts with its enemies because it is good for America and Israel. And underyling that is a lot of Christian zionism or retribution against muslims for 9/11.

 

[Beelzebub]

I hope you mean "It'd be such a waste", that than "It'll be such a waste."

Well, I would say converting enemies reduces them faster than killing them. And Israel kills innocent Gazans almost daily.

Ok, so you don't KNOW the strategic purpose of Israel's nuclear arsenal, but unless you dispute the two purposes I propose (known & a deterrent or unknown for surprise attack) then your expressed anger at Vanunu remains unexplained and seemingly illogical.

I shan't press, but it just seems very odd.

'Israel kills innocent Gazans almost daily'

Why do you insist on making up bullshit like this?

Ummm. Really? Would it make a difference to you if Israel was killing gazans everyday? I get the sense that folks on this board support Israel not because they are peaceful and nice to palestinians but for other reasons.

Quite so.
You can understand the Israelis, Lipush and the like arguing rationally, from her perspective, but the supposed yanks, who are just incensed that anyone should even question anything Israel does, who hardly debate, but just sloganise, and troll ( Hi Hoss ) they are a puzzle.

An intelligent, educated human bean would want to have ideas and philosophy behind their loyalties. So maybe many are too busy in their lives to bother with that, but to engage in a web discussion, bringing only dogma and denial is a little unconvincing.
A little disingenuous, one might think.

But I am sure there are no Hasbara trained advocates here. No, no. That could never be the case.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

They were attacked in every single war. When you are attacked by the enemy there is only one thing to do. ENGAGE FULL ON.

 

[marsnow]

They were attacked in every single war. When you are attacked by the enemy there is only one thing to do. ENGAGE FULL ON.

There ya go sir. True blue through and through.

 

[Beelzebub]

1948:
Israel attacks first.
1967:
Israel attacks first.
1973:
Egypt attacks first.

2 out of three ain't bad.

I know, I know. The pre-emptive argument. But that is mostly just bollocks, of course.

 

[Phoenall]

This reminded me of when our ally wanted Pollard released last month was it?

http://www.newsweek.com/israels-aggressive-spying-us-mostly-hushed-250278

Despite strident denials this week by Israeli officials, Israel has been caught carrying out aggressive espionage operations against American targets for decades, according to U.S. intelligence officials and congressional sources. And they still do it. They just don’t get arrested very often.

As Newsweek reported on Tuesday, American counter-intelligence officials told members of the House Judiciary and Foreign Affairs committees at the end of January that Israel's current espionage activities in America are "unrivaled and unseemly," going far beyond the activities of other close allies, such as Germany, France, the U.K. and Japan.

and no, I'm not an antisemite, just a concerned American that someone who, BTW, receives BILLIONS U.S. taxpayer $$$/yr would continue doing this?

But a former U.S. intelligence operative intimately familiar with Israeli espionage rejected the anti-Semitism charge. “There is a small community of ex-CIA, FBI and military people who have worked this account who are absolutely cheering on [the Newsweek] story,” he said. “Not one of them is anti-Semitic. In fact, it has nothing to do with anti-Semitism. It has only to do with why [Israel] gets kid-glove treatment when, if it was Japan doing it or India doing it at this level, it would be outrageous.”

discuss...

First ANTISEMITIC ISLAMONAZI LIE it was the American government that wanted to release Pollard as a sweetner to get Israel to agree with the Palestinians pre conditions.


Second ANTI SEMITIC ISLAMONAZI LIE it was industrial espionage that is not the same as spying . Every company engages in this to stop the competition getting an advantage

Third ANTI SEMITIC ISLAMONAZI LIE if you are not anti semitic then why are you using information from anti semitic sites.

Fourth ANTI SEMITIC ISLAMONAZI LIE Israel does not receive $billions a year the majority is in the form of LOANS that can only be used to buy American made goods. These loans are paid back in full every year so the American taxpayers don't lose out and actually gain

 

[marsnow]

1948:
Israel attacks first.
1967:
Israel attacks first.
1973:
Egypt attacks first.

2 out of three ain't bad.

I know, I know. The pre-emptive argument. But that is mostly just bollocks, of course.

The most important argument from an American perspective is the firebombing of the USS Cole in 1967 and the stealing of nuclear tech. But you see, the structural narrative in the US due to Christian zionisim and 9/11 and the holocaust is so powerful that these guys have what they consider black and white reasons to support Israel. Some American GIs fought in the Great War and saved the Jews, the bearer of their religious tradition. I'm a Yank and the only reason I supported Israel previously was due to the Holocaust and sympathy for their story. I realized later how structurally religious that narrative had become in of itself. It is seductive and powerful to be the protector of the holy Jews.

And I don't begrudge them really. Most are patriots and many seemed to have served in the military. Its tough to consider the possibility that an ally may not have been what you thought it was. Or let alone, just a normal boring country with problems and demons like all the others.

 

[Phoenall]

No, your evasion of the topic is "Two Wrongs make a right"

Your sole purpose in bringing this to the board was to enhance your standing as an ANTI SEMITIC ISLAMONAZO PROPAGANDIST.

It is simply the fact that the worlds biggest spies are in no position to cry when the tables are turned and their secrets are stolen and used to undercut their profits. Far too long have American companies kept "best practise" as their domain and had the rest of the world playing catch up. They don't like it when another company invents a process that makes them have to play catch up.

 

[Phoenall]

"Two wrongs make a right" school of thought

I think what he's trying to say is that considering the U.S does a tremendous amount of spying worldwide, they can't really complain when someone does it to them.

maybe they don't need the $2BILLION/yr of U.S. Taxpayer money then?

They cant turn it down as it is bound by treaty, so they have to take it and use it to buy American weapons. No other M.E. nation does this, they get $ billions that they don't have to pay back.

 

[marsnow]

No, your evasion of the topic is "Two Wrongs make a right"

Your sole purpose in bringing this to the board was to enhance your standing as an ANTI SEMITIC ISLAMONAZO PROPAGANDIST.

It is simply the fact that the worlds biggest spies are in no position to cry when the tables are turned and their secrets are stolen and used to undercut their profits. Far too long have American companies kept "best practise" as their domain and had the rest of the world playing catch up. They don't like it when another company invents a process that makes them have to play catch up.

Ok. Are you an American? Do you support American dominance as the sole superpower?

 

[Phoenall]

It's The American Way.
Good on them.
They're just acting like a First World country oughta.

Why does a "First World Country" need $2BILLION/yr in U.S. taxpayer subsidies then?

See you perpetuate the ANTI SEMITIC ISLAMONAZI LIE, most of that is in loans that have to be paid back. It can only be used to buy American goods. you are confused with the $10 billion in Islamic aid given by America to the likes of Saudi Arabia and Pakistan

 

[Phoenall]

Israel is America's ally in the same way as a leech is a fish's ally.
They suck your blood and hang on as long as they think they can get more.

Is that why Saudi Arabia is hanging on because it is a blood sucking parasite, or how about Pakistan that threatens to send terrorists to the USA if they don't keep paying the protection money.

 

[Lipush]

I hope you mean "It'd be such a waste", that than "It'll be such a waste."

Uhhhhh....I'm not sure what you mean?

Did I say something grammatically incorrect?

Well, I would say converting enemies reduces them faster than killing them. And Israel kills innocent Gazans almost daily.

Israel has not touched Gaza for days. Even when said people fired rockets. Which did, until about few weeks ago, happened almost daily.

Killing civilians daily in Gaza is another myth, or propaganda, or whatever it is you try to call it.

Ok, so you don't KNOW the strategic purpose of Israel's nuclear arsenal, but unless you dispute the two purposes I propose (known & a deterrent or unknown for surprise attack) then your expressed anger at Vanunu remains unexplained and seemingly illogical.

Va'anunu betrayed us. I see it as a good enough reason to dislike him. Just like I dislike Anat Kam.

She gets the easier pass, since she was young and probably very stupid, but Va'anunu caused greater damage.

I shan't press, but it just seems very odd.

Not from where I'm standing.

 

[Lipush]

1948:
Israel attacks first.
1967:
Israel attacks first.
1973:
Egypt attacks first.

2 out of three ain't bad.

I know, I know. The pre-emptive argument. But that is mostly just bollocks, of course.

1948 and 1967 incorrect.

 

[toastman]

1948:
Israel attacks first.
1967:
Israel attacks first.
1973:
Egypt attacks first.

2 out of three ain't bad.

I know, I know. The pre-emptive argument. But that is mostly just bollocks, of course.

Israel attacked the 5 Arab states first in 1948??

Oh look, a pro Palestinian distorting history