U.S. Gas Exports Force Drivers Into Bidding War With Mexico At Pump

[Listening]

Hey here is an idea! Lets ridicule all the electric cars, solar and wind power or any other effort to reduce our dependence on fossil fuels.

Let's not ridicule them.

Let's not subsidize them either.

 

[hortysir]

"I do not support an outright ban of exports," said Tyson Slocum, director of the energy program for the consumer watchdog group Public Citizen. "And I don't want to see the government regulating retail prices. But I don't think that it is in our best interests to be exporting at the rate at which we are."

So, what do we do??

 

[uscitizen]

Hey here is an idea! Lets ridicule all the electric cars, solar and wind power or any other effort to reduce our dependence on fossil fuels.

Let's not ridicule them.

Let's not subsidize them either.

why not? we subsidize the fossil fuel industry.

would we have been in Iraq, etc if they had no oil over there?

 

[Listening]

Hey here is an idea! Lets ridicule all the electric cars, solar and wind power or any other effort to reduce our dependence on fossil fuels.

Let's not ridicule them.

Let's not subsidize them either.

why not? we subsidize the fossil fuel industry.

Then we should stop that too.

Of course, we should also stop regulating it to death.

And I hope you are not using the same math as Rachel Madcow. I watched her wet her pants over "tax cuts" of a certain amount even when they were making all this money. The problem being that if you took away the tax cuts...they were not making any money....they were losing a bunch of it.

 

[hortysir]

Hey here is an idea! Lets ridicule all the electric cars, solar and wind power or any other effort to reduce our dependence on fossil fuels.

Let's not ridicule them.

Let's not subsidize them either.

why not? we subsidize the fossil fuel industry.

would we have been in Iraq, etc if they had no oil over there?

1st sentence = true

2nd one? Not so much, bro.
Still looking for that oil benefit

 

[Dr.Drock]

Hey here is an idea! Lets ridicule all the electric cars, solar and wind power or any other effort to reduce our dependence on fossil fuels.

Good point, why would anyone be ridiculed for the idea of spending $40,000 on a Chevy Volt to save $500 a year in energy costs? That makes perfect sense to me.

 

[Dr.Drock]

Let's not ridicule them.

Let's not subsidize them either.

why not? we subsidize the fossil fuel industry.

would we have been in Iraq, etc if they had no oil over there?

1st sentence = true

2nd one? Not so much, bro.
Still looking for that oil benefit

The purpose isn't the oil benefit to taxpayers, politicians don't give a shit about taxpayers. The oil companies who buy off politicians? You better believe they give a shit about them.

 

[Listening]

Hey here is an idea! Lets ridicule all the electric cars, solar and wind power or any other effort to reduce our dependence on fossil fuels.

Good point, why would anyone be ridiculed for the idea of spending $40,000 on a Chevy Volt to save $500 a year in energy costs? That makes perfect sense to me.

Because when you look at the subsidies for the Volt, the cost was a lot more than 40K.

So who would pay 300 K to save 0.5 on energy costs ?

****************************
The total amount of state and federal subsidies for each Chevy Volt sold is as much as $256,824 per vehicle according to a fiscal analysis by Michigan's Mackinac Center for Public Policy. All for a car that only costs $39,828.

To get to this number analyst James Hohman looked at 18 government programs (rebates, grants, loans, tax credits) and divided that number by the amount of Chevy Volts sold thus far. There's a total of $3 billion in subsidies including $2.3 billion in federal money and $690.4 million offered by the State of Michigan.

Divide into that the 6,000 (or so) Volts sold thus far and you arrive at their number. Or,actually, you arrive at a number closer to $500,000. The math's a little fuzzy.

Of course, this is the largest possible number — because many of these subsidies only max out if the suppliers and companies involved hit their maximum employment/production targets, as they themselves admit:

Report: Every Chevy Volt has over $250,000 in government subsidies

 

[hortysir]

why not? we subsidize the fossil fuel industry.

would we have been in Iraq, etc if they had no oil over there?

1st sentence = true

2nd one? Not so much, bro.
Still looking for that oil benefit

The purpose isn't the oil benefit to taxpayers, politicians don't give a shit about taxpayers. The oil companies who buy off politicians? You better believe they give a shit about them.

true.....

 

[uscitizen]

Let's not ridicule them.

Let's not subsidize them either.

why not? we subsidize the fossil fuel industry.

would we have been in Iraq, etc if they had no oil over there?

1st sentence = true

2nd one? Not so much, bro.
Still looking for that oil benefit

Umm Exxon and such had record profits during that $4 gas and such.
Oil went from around $30 to over 100 bbl.

And it cost them the same amount in the ground.

 

[Listening]

why not? we subsidize the fossil fuel industry.

would we have been in Iraq, etc if they had no oil over there?

1st sentence = true

2nd one? Not so much, bro.
Still looking for that oil benefit

Umm Exxon and such had record profits during that $4 gas and such.
Oil went from around $30 to over 100 bbl.

Exxon is getting out of refining (or has cut back it's asset base). Most people see refining as a loser.

Exxon focuses on E&P. When oil prices go up, the cost to get at it does not....so why would you expect them not to make a fortune ?

 

[Mr. H.]

I for one never stated that Keystone XL would reduce gasoline prices.
What it would do is alleviate bloated inventories at various locations, resulting in more efficient distribution. It would also reduce imports from countries that we probably should not be patronizing.

And exactly what is "wrong" with exporting refined products?
Why are we exporting millions of metric tons of grains each year while our grocery bills skyrocket?
I haven't seen any screws put to the Ag industry in this regard.

We export ethanol, so why not refined crude products?

Even doubling the size of inventories of refined products in this country would not bring down the price of gasoline. If you flood the market with $4.00 gasoline, all you get is more $4.00 gasoline.

Socialist countries such as Venezuela control their industries in a fashion that you would suggest. So, why stop at petroleum? Let's ban exports of corn, beans, and wheat. Let's stop exporting automobiles to make them cheaper.

You see what I'm getting at? Your concerns are nonsensical.

Refined products are in high demand overseas, and selling at a premium. If we have excess, then by all means export that excess and bring hard currency back into this country.

If you go back even 20 years, there has consistently been around 200,000 barrels of gasoline and other refined liquids held in inventory in this country. That is adequate to meet demand. Why build more massive tank farms to store more expensive product?

Honestly folks, grow some eyes and ears and knock off the bullshit.

Does this mean that President Obama cannot be blamed by the Right for $4.00 gas?

Folks will cast blame where they will, rightly or not. Like someone else said, Bush took as much heat on the subject.

I think anyone- Left, Right, etc. is perpetuating an ignorant notion and doing nothing to address the real issues.

No, I don't blame Obama- but I don't credit him with increasing domestinc oil and natural gas production either. To claim so is just as ignorant.

 

[uscitizen]

1st sentence = true

2nd one? Not so much, bro.
Still looking for that oil benefit

Umm Exxon and such had record profits during that $4 gas and such.
Oil went from around $30 to over 100 bbl.

Exxon is getting out of refining (or has cut back it's asset base). Most people see refining as a loser.

Exxon focuses on E&P. When oil prices go up, the cost to get at it does not....so why would you expect them not to make a fortune ?

yep going to offshore our refining. We already import refined petro products.
Make us more dependent on other countries for our energy.
That is a great long term plan.

And Ohh yes I expect any corporation to do that if we let them.
They will maximize profits thru any means we let them get away with.

 

[Listening]

Umm Exxon and such had record profits during that $4 gas and such.
Oil went from around $30 to over 100 bbl.

Exxon is getting out of refining (or has cut back it's asset base). Most people see refining as a loser.

Exxon focuses on E&P. When oil prices go up, the cost to get at it does not....so why would you expect them not to make a fortune ?

yep going to offshore our refining. We already import refined petro products.
Make us more dependent on other countries for our energy.
That is a great long term plan.

And Ohh yes I expect any corporation to do that if we let them.
They will maximize profits thru any means we let them get away with.

We don't let them get away with anything. They do what they think is best.

Have you noticed how we treat the refining industry in this country. If you don't know....get educated.

It is our own fault for being so dependent.

Are you aware of the shutdowns on the east coast. And I recently heard that Hovensa is shutting down St. Croix. That is a 1/2 milliion BPD refinery.

The long term plan is what we have been pushing as a people for a long long time.

You don't like what "we" are doing ?

 

[Synthaholic]

I for one never stated that Keystone XL would reduce gasoline prices.
What it would do is alleviate bloated inventories at various locations, resulting in more efficient distribution. It would also reduce imports from countries that we probably should not be patronizing.

And exactly what is "wrong" with exporting refined products?
Why are we exporting millions of metric tons of grains each year while our grocery bills skyrocket?
I haven't seen any screws put to the Ag industry in this regard.

We export ethanol, so why not refined crude products?

Even doubling the size of inventories of refined products in this country would not bring down the price of gasoline. If you flood the market with $4.00 gasoline, all you get is more $4.00 gasoline.

Socialist countries such as Venezuela control their industries in a fashion that you would suggest. So, why stop at petroleum? Let's ban exports of corn, beans, and wheat. Let's stop exporting automobiles to make them cheaper.

You see what I'm getting at? Your concerns are nonsensical.

Refined products are in high demand overseas, and selling at a premium. If we have excess, then by all means export that excess and bring hard currency back into this country.

If you go back even 20 years, there has consistently been around 200,000 barrels of gasoline and other refined liquids held in inventory in this country. That is adequate to meet demand. Why build more massive tank farms to store more expensive product?

Honestly folks, grow some eyes and ears and knock off the bullshit.

Does this mean that President Obama cannot be blamed by the Right for $4.00 gas?

Folks will cast blame where they will, rightly or not. Like someone else said, Bush took as much heat on the subject.

That's a total cop-out.

I think anyone- Left, Right, etc. is perpetuating an ignorant notion and doing nothing to address the real issues.

Well, since Obama took office, it's been the Republicans - Newt is still doing it as the main theme of his latest attempt to rebound.

No, I don't blame Obama- but I don't credit him with increasing domestinc oil and natural gas production either. To claim so is just as ignorant.

Ignorant, huh?

Yes, oil production is booming under Obama. No, it hasn’t lowered gas prices.
​

Remember Michele Bachmann’s critique of President Obama’s energy policy? “We have resources from coal to oil to natural gas,” she said. “The problem is, under the EPA, they’ve been busy locking up (supplies), especially under President Obama.” Now, the Interior Department controls oil and gas leases, not the EPA, but never mind. Obama, the argument goes, is preventing us from harnessing our vast oil supplies.

But is this actually true? Not according to the chart on the right, courtesy of the Wall Street Journal. The number of rigs in the United States has been soaring during the Obama years. Oil drilling is up nearly 60 percent in the past year alone.

*snip*

Over at Climate Progress, Joe Romm puts together his own chart, using data from the Energy Information Administration, showing that U.S. field production of crude oil is up significantly since 2008.


*snip*

In any case, that’s all context for Bachmann’s promise that she can ratchet gas prices down below $2 per gallon by cranking up domestic production. This boost is already happening under the Obama administration, and gas prices aren’t exactly flying downwards.

 

[editec]

Such news as this is what makes me at people who tell us we need to DRILL DRILL DRILL OUR OIL.

Our Oil?!

We citizens have virtually NO oil.

The oil companies have the oil and they sell it to the highest bidders.

America could be awash with oil, but if the invisible hand of the market says sell it to TERRORISTS then by GOD that is what the market will do.

 

[Mr. H.]

Does this mean that President Obama cannot be blamed by the Right for $4.00 gas?

Folks will cast blame where they will, rightly or not. Like someone else said, Bush took as much heat on the subject.

That's a total cop-out.

I think anyone- Left, Right, etc. is perpetuating an ignorant notion and doing nothing to address the real issues.

Well, since Obama took office, it's been the Republicans - Newt is still doing it as the main theme of his latest attempt to rebound.

No, I don't blame Obama- but I don't credit him with increasing domestinc oil and natural gas production either. To claim so is just as ignorant.

Ignorant, huh?

Yes, oil production is booming under Obama. No, it hasn’t lowered gas prices.
​

Remember Michele Bachmann’s critique of President Obama’s energy policy? “We have resources from coal to oil to natural gas,” she said. “The problem is, under the EPA, they’ve been busy locking up (supplies), especially under President Obama.” Now, the Interior Department controls oil and gas leases, not the EPA, but never mind. Obama, the argument goes, is preventing us from harnessing our vast oil supplies.

But is this actually true? Not according to the chart on the right, courtesy of the Wall Street Journal. The number of rigs in the United States has been soaring during the Obama years. Oil drilling is up nearly 60 percent in the past year alone.

*snip*

Over at Climate Progress, Joe Romm puts together his own chart, using data from the Energy Information Administration, showing that U.S. field production of crude oil is up significantly since 2008.


*snip*

In any case, that’s all context for Bachmann’s promise that she can ratchet gas prices down below $2 per gallon by cranking up domestic production. This boost is already happening under the Obama administration, and gas prices aren’t exactly flying downwards.

Hey! Shove a light bulb in it, bub.

No, it's not a cop-out to say that Bush took blame for high gasoline prices. I'm saying that neither he nor Obama deserve it.

And I'll stick with my claim that Obama deserves zero credit for any increase in domestic oil and natural gas production. The credit lies with technology, prices, ingenuity and risk-taking.

 

[Synthaholic]

Folks will cast blame where they will, rightly or not. Like someone else said, Bush took as much heat on the subject.

That's a total cop-out.

Well, since Obama took office, it's been the Republicans - Newt is still doing it as the main theme of his latest attempt to rebound.

No, I don't blame Obama- but I don't credit him with increasing domestinc oil and natural gas production either. To claim so is just as ignorant.

Ignorant, huh?

Yes, oil production is booming under Obama. No, it hasn’t lowered gas prices.
​

Remember Michele Bachmann’s critique of President Obama’s energy policy? “We have resources from coal to oil to natural gas,” she said. “The problem is, under the EPA, they’ve been busy locking up (supplies), especially under President Obama.” Now, the Interior Department controls oil and gas leases, not the EPA, but never mind. Obama, the argument goes, is preventing us from harnessing our vast oil supplies.

But is this actually true? Not according to the chart on the right, courtesy of the Wall Street Journal. The number of rigs in the United States has been soaring during the Obama years. Oil drilling is up nearly 60 percent in the past year alone.

*snip*

Over at Climate Progress, Joe Romm puts together his own chart, using data from the Energy Information Administration, showing that U.S. field production of crude oil is up significantly since 2008.


*snip*

In any case, that’s all context for Bachmann’s promise that she can ratchet gas prices down below $2 per gallon by cranking up domestic production. This boost is already happening under the Obama administration, and gas prices aren’t exactly flying downwards.

Hey! Shove a light bulb in it, bub.

No, it's not a cop-out to say that Bush took blame for high gasoline prices. I'm saying that neither he nor Obama deserve it.

And I'll stick with my claim that Obama deserves zero credit for any increase in domestic oil and natural gas production. The credit lies with technology, prices, ingenuity and risk-taking.

Amazing. Even in the face of a fact-based news story from WaPo, that features data from The Wall Street Journal, the bubble-based Rightwing refuses to acknowledge the evidence.

 

[Listening]

And why, pray tell, would drilling be up ?

Because the price of oil is at a level that justifies all the exploration.

Obama is way behind the curve.

 

[Mr. H.]

Amazing. Even in the face of a fact-based news story from WaPo, that features data from The Wall Street Journal, the bubble-based Rightwing refuses to acknowledge the evidence.

Can't you understand English?

This from your link:

The WSJ reports:


The drilling boom is being driven by a variety of factors. New technologies have allowed companies to tap vast new oil reserves in places like North Dakota, Texas and, most recently, Ohio. High oil prices are making once-unprofitable fields more tempting….

All that drilling is helping to boost U.S. oil production. The U.S. pumped 3.9 million barrels a day from onshore fields in March, up 5.9% from a year earlier and the most in nearly a decade.

The jackass author credits Obama, you credit Obama, I agree with the WSJ.

I do not give Obama any credit for the increase in drilling and production. Credit goes to the people spending the hundreds of millions of dollars to get the job done. They invest their money, they take the risk- yet Obama should be given the nod? Bullshit.