CDZ Two options...the European model of self defense, and the American model of Self defensse.

[flacaltenn]

Has any nation (even the US) ever beat the 2015 American record for mass shootings?

View attachment 553544

And that is a lie...there have not been that many mass public shootings...

in 2019, we had 12

In 2018 we had 10

in 2020 we had 2.....

Out of over 330 million people....

US mass shootings, 1982–2021: Data from Mother Jones’ investigation

Dating back to at least 2005, the FBI and leading criminologists essentially defined a mass shooting as a single attack in a public place in which four or more victims were killed. We adopted that baseline for fatalities when we gathered data in 2012 on three decades worth of cases.
-------

• Here is a description of the criteria we use:
  • The perpetrator took the lives of at least four people. A 2008 FBI report identifies an individual as a mass murderer—versus a spree killer or a serial killer—if he kills four or more people in a single incident (not including himself), typically in a single location. (*In 2013, the US government’s fatality baseline was revised down to three; our database reflects this change beginning from Jan. 2013, as detailed above.)
  • The killings were carried out by a lone shooter. (Except in the case of the Columbine massacre and the Westside Middle School killings, which involved two shooters.)
  • The shootings occurred in a public place. (Except in the case of a party on private property in Crandon, Wisconsin, and another in Seattle, where crowds of strangers had gathered, essentially constituting a public crowd.) Crimes primarily related to gang activity or armed robbery are not included, nor are mass killings that took place in private homes (often stemming from domestic violence).
  • Perpetrators who died or were wounded during the attack are not included in the victim tallies.
  • We included a handful of cases also known as “spree killings“—cases in which the killings occurred in more than one location, but still over a short period of time, that otherwise fit the above criteria.
  ----------------------

Our research focused on indiscriminate rampages in public places resulting in four or more victims killed by the attacker. We exclude shootings stemming from more conventionally motivated crimes such as armed robbery or gang violence. (Or in which the perpetrators have not been identified.) Other news outlets and researchers have since published larger tallies that include a wide range of gun crimes in which four or more people have been either wounded or killed. While those larger datasets of multiple-victim shootings are useful for studying the broader problem of gun violence, our investigation provides an in-depth look at a distinct phenomenon—from the firearms used and mental health factors to the growing copycat problem. Tracking mass shootings is complex; we believe ours is the most useful approach for studying this specific phenomenon.




---------
The actual number of mass shootings from Mother Jones......

Here you go...the number of mass public shootings according to Mother Jones...rabid, anti gun, left wing news source.....not the NRA...

The list below comes from the old definition of 4 killed to make a shooting a mass shooting...if you now go to the link there are more than listed below...but that is because Mother Jones changed the list from the time I first posted it...and changed to obama's new standard of only 3 dead to make a mass shooting...

I have put obama's updated number in parenthesis..........



US Mass Shootings, 1982-2015: Data From Mother Jones' Investigation

2020....2

2019....10

2018... 12

2017: 11 ( 5 according to the old standard)

2016....6

2015....4 ( obama's new standard....7)

2014....2 (4)

2013....5

2012....7

2011....3

2010....1

2009....4

2008....3

2007....4

2006....3

2005...2

2004....1

2003...1

2002 not listed so more than likely 0

2001....1

2000....1

1999....5

1998...3

1997....2

1996....1

1995...1

1994...1

1993...4

1992...2

1991...3

1990...1

1989...2

1988....1

1987...1

1986...1

1985... not listed so probably 0

1984...2

1983...not listed so probably 0

1982...1
US Mass Shootings, 1982-2015: Data From Mother Jones' Investigation

Also a good link here to how this Reddit "fake news" got picked up as anti-American propaganda around the world. If you do an "image search" of that calendar -- you'll find out what Mark Twain meant when he said "A lie can go around the world, before the truth ever gets it's pants on".

Have There Really Been 355 'Mass Shootings' This Year? Only If You're Relying On Bad Data

No, there really haven't been 355 'mass shootings' since January 1st. Not unless you're relying on completely unreliable data.

www.outsidethebeltway.com

 

[GLASNOST]

Also a good link here to how this Reddit "fake news" got picked up as anti-American propaganda around the world. If you do an "image search" of that calendar -- you'll find out what Mark Twain meant when he said "A lie can go around the world, before the truth ever gets it's pants on".

Have There Really Been 355 'Mass Shootings' This Year? Only If You're Relying On Bad Data

No, there really haven't been 355 'mass shootings' since January 1st. Not unless you're relying on completely unreliable data.

www.outsidethebeltway.com

OTB got picked up as pro-American, pro-gun propaganda around the world. Mark Twain said, "A lie can go around the world, before the truth ever gets it's pants on".

 

[Leo123]

The Europe model of self defense is to rely on America.

 

[GLASNOST]

The Europe model of self defense is to rely on America.

The Europe-NATO model of self defense is to pay extortion demands made by the United Snakes. "A nice country you have here. It would be a shame if something bad should happen to it."

 

[Batcat]

We kill lots of people. They don't kill nearly as many. We should do what they are doing.
View attachment 496928

If you live in a country where only a few people own cars you would have few automobile accidents.

If you live in a county with more guns than people obviously your gun homicide rate will be higher than countries where few people own firearms.

If you are a woman living in a nation where few people own firearms and someone decides to rape you, you are at a dsiadvantage. However if you live in a nation where you can legally carry a gun you may be able to stop the attack by either showing you are armed or by shooting the attacker.

If you tried to confiscate all firearms from legal owners many would refuse to turn them in. That would make the old adage If you outlaw guns only outlaws will own guns, accurate.

 

[Batcat]

Tell that to women, particularly small women.

My daughter took Judo and jujitsu classes.

The instructor told the women the object was not to beat the male attacker in a fight, The object was to slow down his attack and then run like hell.

My daughter was pretty good at the martial arts but wise enough to get a concealed weapons permit. It’s hard to run away if you are cornered.

 

[Batcat]

No. Their violent crimes, such as Homicide, Rape, and Sexual assault are much lower. Robbery is essentially the same. Simple assault is higher, but one out of five measurements is hardly grounds for saying what they are doing doesn't work. I prefer more simple assaults that don't result in death over 5 times more murders. You don't? We should do what they are doing.

View attachment 497090

If someone attacks me with the intention of putting me in the hospital for an extended period of time or six feet under (and has the ability to do so) I prefer to be legally carrying a handgun to stop the attack.

 

[GLASNOST]

If you live in a country where only a few people own cars you would have few automobile accidents.

True.

If you live in a county with more guns than people obviously your gun homicide rate will be higher than countries where few people own firearms.

No. If you live in America then your gun homicide would be higher even more than in a country where more people own firearms.

If you are a woman living in a nation where few people own firearms and someone decides to rape you, you are at a dsiadvantage. However if you live in a nation where you can legally carry a gun you may be able to stop the attack by either showing you are armed or by shooting the attacker.

No. If you are living in a primitive nation (such as the US and many third-world nations) then the possibility of being raped is higher than in a civilized nation. Self-defence in the form of guns or any other means is irrelevant to the case.

If you tried to confiscate all firearms from legal owners many would refuse to turn them in. That would make the old adage If you outlaw guns only outlaws will own guns. accurate.

No. If you try to confiscate all firearms from the whole population then those who refuse to turn them in would be outlaws regardless of whether or not they were legal prior to the ban. Look up the words "legal" and "illagal" if you are in doubt.

 

[Batcat]

True.

No. If you live in America then your gun homicide would be higher even more than in a country where more people own firearms.

No. If you are living in a primitive nation (such as the US and many third-world nations) then the possibility of being raped is higher than in a civilized nation. Self-defence in the form of guns or any other means is irrelevant to the case.

No. If you try to confiscate all firearms from the whole population then those who refuse to turn them in would be outlaws regardless of whether or not they were legal prior to the ban. Look up the words "legal" and "illagal" if you are in doubt.

If mandatory confiscation legislation ever passed those who refused to turn in their firearms would be outlaws. That would include the criminal element as well as the honest citizen element before the law passed. Therefore If you outlaw guns only outlaws will own guns.

Our nation is not primitive but some cities run by Democrats for decades might fit that description.

If I was a woman who was being attacked by a man who intended to rape her, I would give a damn about statistics. I would prefer to have a firearm to defend myself with.

It is possible that the reason I am posting this is my mother was rushed by a rapist way back in the 1920s while she was walking home after getting off a bus. She drew her S&W LadySmith revolver from her purse and fired two shots over his head and he ran away. This revolver fired a tiny ineffective .22 short round and if she had actually hit her attacker he might have merely been pissed off.

 

[GLASNOST]

If mandatory confiscation legislation ever passed those who refused to turn in their firearms would be outlaws.....

So, you took my advice and looked up the definitions of "legal" and "illegal"? Good for you!

 

[BULLDOG]

If you live in a country where only a few people own cars you would have few automobile accidents.

If you live in a county with more guns than people obviously your gun homicide rate will be higher than countries where few people own firearms.

If you are a woman living in a nation where few people own firearms and someone decides to rape you, you are at a dsiadvantage. However if you live in a nation where you can legally carry a gun you may be able to stop the attack by either showing you are armed or by shooting the attacker.

If you tried to confiscate all firearms from legal owners many would refuse to turn them in. That would make the old adage If you outlaw guns only outlaws will own guns, accurate.

You're always whining about outlawing guns. When is the last time somebody came to your door to confiscate your gun?

 

[BULLDOG]

If someone attacks me with the intention of putting me in the hospital for an extended period of time or six feet under (and has the ability to do so) I prefer to be legally carrying a handgun to stop the attack.

How often does that happen to you?

 

[Batcat]

How often does that happen to you?

It has never happened to me. However I practice situational awareness which means I don’t want down dark streets with a cell phone glued to my ear. I am aware of what is happening around me and I realize the best way to survive a fight without injury is to not get into one. If something strikes me as suspicious or the hair stands up on the back of my neck I leave the area.

However it might happen even though I am situationally aware. I am a 75 year old men with a bad hip that causes me to have a noticeable limp. That makes me a weak member of the herd that predators love to attack.

If it does happen I am armed and hopefully I can stop a serious attack with my snub nosed .38 revolver. However the last thing I ever hope to do is to shoot another person even for legitimate self defense.

 

[Batcat]

You're always whining about outlawing guns. When is the last time somebody came to your door to confiscate your gun?

It has never happened and I hope enough people respect the Second Amendment to make damn sure it never does. Just vote against any politician who says he wants to ban or confiscate firearms.

If a person likes owning firearms it would also be wise to never vote for a Democrat. They might lie to you and say they are for the Second Amendment.

Also vote against RINO Republicans like Mitt Romney. If he had been elected President we would have a new Assault Weapons Ban today. A Democrat Presdient like Joe Biden has little or no chance of passing such legislation but enough Republicans would back a RINO President to make a new Assault Weapons Ban law.

 

[2aguy]

Also a good link here to how this Reddit "fake news" got picked up as anti-American propaganda around the world. If you do an "image search" of that calendar -- you'll find out what Mark Twain meant when he said "A lie can go around the world, before the truth ever gets it's pants on".

Have There Really Been 355 'Mass Shootings' This Year? Only If You're Relying On Bad Data

No, there really haven't been 355 'mass shootings' since January 1st. Not unless you're relying on completely unreliable data.

www.outsidethebeltway.com

Thanks, I am stealing this.........

 

[candycorn]

The European one seems to have a lot fewer gun deaths.

Which one is better?

 

[CowboyTed]

In Britain and the rest of Europe, their citizens have no Right to protect themselves from violent attack...and the best tool for self defense, guns....has been taken away from most of them, in particular the low income groups.

In the U.S. in most places Americans can opt to use guns for at a minimum home defense, and in a vast majority of the country over 19.4 million Americans can legally carry guns for self defense.

In Britain, in particular.....rapes, brutal beatings, brutal knifings (that result in death or life changing injuries), robberies and murder, essentially have to be endured......and almost any attempt at self defense can land the actual victim in jail and prison.

In the U.S.......Americans can use their legal guns...which they do 1.1 million times a year, to stop rapes, brutal beatings, knifings, robberies and murder.

In our country we had 10,235 gun murders.....of those murders over 70-80% of the victims were criminals murdered by other criminals...they were not normal citizens. Of the rest of the victims, the vast majority are the friends, family and associates of the criminals hit by mistake as the actual criminal was the target.

Guns, again, are used in the U.S. 1.1 million times a year to save lives...from rape, robbery, beatings, knifings and murder.........over 170,000 lives saved by some research..........not to include the crimes stopped that also saved lives....

In the U.K.......victims of crime are majority innocent people......who are preyed upon by the British criminals...

Which model do you prefer?

Murder rate in UK v US

United Kingdom vs United States: Crime > Violent crime Facts and Stats

Murders, Murder rate per million people, Intentional homicide rate, Murder rate, Murders per million people

www.nationmaster.com

4 times more in US...

The OP can try and paint a picture all he likes but the facts are... Armed Robbery in UK is a lot rarer in UK than in US... Armed Violence is a lot less, to the point that the police don't regularly carry guns...

Guess what you are 99 times less likely to be shot by UK police that US Police... Yes that is 99 times, 70 times if you are white...

Lets be clear there is plenty of countries in the world who are very happy with there gun laws and in UK they consider US laws barbaric... US has mass shootings every other day, this just doesn't happen at the same frequency in Europe...

UK want gun laws even stricter

Gun ownership: three quarters of Britons want stricter laws | YouGov

Approaching two in five think firearm ownership should be illegal

yougov.co.uk

Look at this poll:

Why do they want guns gone... Because they kill people... Gun in UK are considered to part of a hobby, Gun Clubs are actually big advocates of gun laws and safety... US gun laws are considered worldwide as highly irresponsible and idiotic...

 

[CowboyTed]

London does not have a drug-gang industry fueled by Fatherless poor Black communities like the US does. Replicate our inner cities in London and their statistics would be in line with ours.

So you are admitting that UK type of social safety net is better for people and reduces crime... Thanks, so you want higher Min Wage (they call living wage), better social programs, free healthcare, free University...

Thats great, we can keep the guns laws the same and increase social programs..

 

[BlackSand]

The instructor told the women the object was not to beat the male attacker in a fight, The object was to slow down his attack and then run like hell.

.

Although I respect your daughter's instructor and how they choose to teach their students ...
Martial Arts, including Judo and Jujitsu, provide Escape as an Option ... Not a Requirement.

.​

 

[Blues Man]

Murder rate in UK v US

United Kingdom vs United States: Crime > Violent crime Facts and Stats

Murders, Murder rate per million people, Intentional homicide rate, Murder rate, Murders per million people

www.nationmaster.com

4 times more in US...

The OP can try and paint a picture all he likes but the facts are... Armed Robbery in UK is a lot rarer in UK than in US... Armed Violence is a lot less, to the point that the police don't regularly carry guns...

Guess what you are 99 times less likely to be shot by UK police that US Police... Yes that is 99 times, 70 times if you are white...

Lets be clear there is plenty of countries in the world who are very happy with there gun laws and in UK they consider US laws barbaric... US has mass shootings every other day, this just doesn't happen at the same frequency in Europe...

UK want gun laws even stricter

Gun ownership: three quarters of Britons want stricter laws | YouGov

Approaching two in five think firearm ownership should be illegal

yougov.co.uk

Look at this poll:
View attachment 612412

Why do they want guns gone... Because they kill people... Gun in UK are considered to part of a hobby, Gun Clubs are actually big advocates of gun laws and safety... US gun laws are considered worldwide as highly irresponsible and idiotic...

So what?

Our murder rate is about the same as it was in 1950.

And there is nothing idioitc about protecting the right to own a gun.

The biggest problem we have is that we refuse to enforce the gun laws we have on the books.

And we all know where most murders occur but the powers that be choose to do nothing to stop them because our murder rate is driven by violence in out poorest inner city areas and since it's predominantly poor young urban minorities killing other poor young urban minorities nobody gives a shit.