Two more questions for partisans

[Mac1958]

Then that begs the question: what's wrong with treating all people the same instead of special things for special groups of people?

It doesn't matter. It is what it is, we are where we are.

The GOP has to decide if it's going to get past that question and deal with things the way they are, or not.
.

 

[JoeB131]

Then that begs the question: what's wrong with treating all people the same instead of special things for special groups of people?

The biggest problem I have with Democrats is their vote buying. They create policies and laws that specifically benefit their voters who in turn benefit them--not most or all people in the country.

As opposed to the Republicans, who get you to vote against your own economic interests by appealing to your racial, sexual and religious fears?

Commie Care was designed to benefit Democrat voters. It did not benefit most or all people in the country. In fact, many like myself were several damaged by the policy, but french fry makers and shelf stockers were thrilled. They vote Democrat.

The problem is that you think you are better than a shelf stocker. Obviously, you don't possess a skill set that your boss considers worth insuring your health. You are easily replaced. Self driving trucks will probably be doing your job in 10 years. And obviously, no one else considers you a great catch, either.

So the shelf stocker was smart enough to vote in his own self interest and you weren't.

This week, the Republican Congress passed Kate's law. Kate's law does benefit everybody in the country because it will help keep foreign felons out of our country. Who could be against that......right?

Except it won't keep foreign felons out of our country. What it will do is make life tougher for people who commit minor infractions.

Because again, they are working tirelessly to make whites a minority in our country, and they don't care how many Americans die of overdoses, how many Americans get killed, how many Americans that become a victim of violent crime from these foreigners. They don't care. They only care about benefiting the Democrat party. If you don't believe that, watch how the vote pans out in the Senate on the bill.

Except those aren't solutions. Want Americans to stop dying of overdoses? Start treating drug addition like a medical issue instead of a criminal one.

Fact is, undocumented aliens commit less crimes per capita than people who are born here.

 

[JoeB131]

Thanks for proving my point Joe. Well done.

You didn't have a point. You repeated whatever shit you heard on hate radio like it was a point, but that's not a point.

 

[JoeB131]

It doesn't matter. It is what it is, we are where we are.

The GOP has to decide if it's going to get past that question and deal with things the way they are, or not.

That wouldn't work either.

You see, if the GOp started pandering to minorities, they'd lose dumb racists like Ray who might actually start to figure out why his 1%er Boss won't srping for his health insurance.

 

[Preacher]

Now that political "discourse" in this country has devolved to little more than personal attacks, hyperbole and distortion aimed at the other "side" -- and I obviously ain't just talking about USMB -- and now that the two "sides" can exist in alternate universes in terms of the "news" they choose to believe, it would be nice to have a template from which the rest of us can view this crippling debacle.

I'm sure we can all agree that the constant use of vicious personal attacks, hyperbole and distortion will not change a person's mind, and instead will almost certainly just serve to strengthen their already-held beliefs. Human nature.

So, two questions:

Would it be safe to say that you're no longer interested in changing the minds of the other side?

Would it also be safe to say that your goal now is to beat the other side, and if so, what would that look like on a practical basis?
.

Yes and not just beat them but absolutely destroy them.

 

[Mac1958]

Now that political "discourse" in this country has devolved to little more than personal attacks, hyperbole and distortion aimed at the other "side" -- and I obviously ain't just talking about USMB -- and now that the two "sides" can exist in alternate universes in terms of the "news" they choose to believe, it would be nice to have a template from which the rest of us can view this crippling debacle.

I'm sure we can all agree that the constant use of vicious personal attacks, hyperbole and distortion will not change a person's mind, and instead will almost certainly just serve to strengthen their already-held beliefs. Human nature.

So, two questions:

Would it be safe to say that you're no longer interested in changing the minds of the other side?

Would it also be safe to say that your goal now is to beat the other side, and if so, what would that look like on a practical basis?
.

Yes and not just beat them but absolutely destroy them.

Okay, so what would that actually look like? Do you mean make it so that everyone just agreed with your side?
.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Thanks for proving my point Joe. Well done.

You didn't have a point. You repeated whatever shit you heard on hate radio like it was a point, but that's not a point.

And racists, sexists, homophobe is?

You on the left are so brainwashed you don't even realize it.

 

[percysunshine]

Now that political "discourse" in this country has devolved to little more than personal attacks, hyperbole and distortion aimed at the other "side" -- and I obviously ain't just talking about USMB -- and now that the two "sides" can exist in alternate universes in terms of the "news" they choose to believe, it would be nice to have a template from which the rest of us can view this crippling debacle.

I'm sure we can all agree that the constant use of vicious personal attacks, hyperbole and distortion will not change a person's mind, and instead will almost certainly just serve to strengthen their already-held beliefs. Human nature.

So, two questions:

Would it be safe to say that you're no longer interested in changing the minds of the other side?

Would it also be safe to say that your goal now is to beat the other side, and if so, what would that look like on a practical basis?
.

.
I think the government should pay for free video gaming for the losing party in a national election.

 

[Preacher]

Now that political "discourse" in this country has devolved to little more than personal attacks, hyperbole and distortion aimed at the other "side" -- and I obviously ain't just talking about USMB -- and now that the two "sides" can exist in alternate universes in terms of the "news" they choose to believe, it would be nice to have a template from which the rest of us can view this crippling debacle.

I'm sure we can all agree that the constant use of vicious personal attacks, hyperbole and distortion will not change a person's mind, and instead will almost certainly just serve to strengthen their already-held beliefs. Human nature.

So, two questions:

Would it be safe to say that you're no longer interested in changing the minds of the other side?

Would it also be safe to say that your goal now is to beat the other side, and if so, what would that look like on a practical basis?
.

Yes and not just beat them but absolutely destroy them.

Okay, so what would that actually look like? Do you mean make it so that everyone just agreed with your side?
.

Adults CAN NOT be made to think correctly so they would be put in prison camps and the worst would be tried and executed for treason. Children can be helped so they would be given to couples who can't have kids and be raised correctly. There should be one main goal of ANY nation and that's the preservation and safety of our race. Anything else comes 2nd.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

As opposed to the Republicans, who get you to vote against your own economic interests by appealing to your racial, sexual and religious fears?

The problem is that you think you are better than a shelf stocker. Obviously, you don't possess a skill set that your boss considers worth insuring your health. You are easily replaced. Self driving trucks will probably be doing your job in 10 years. And obviously, no one else considers you a great catch, either.

Except it won't keep foreign felons out of our country. What it will do is make life tougher for people who commit minor infractions.

Well if a person wants to risk five years in prison if caught here, they are going to do it anyway. But most will opt to stay out of our country, just like the reduction of illegals trying to get in now because of Trump. For the ones we do lock up, that's five years we don't have to risk being victims of their crimes. And if it were up to me, anybody caught here illegally would be locked up for five years. Then we wouldn't need a wall.

Illegal Immigrants Accounted for Nearly 37 Percent of Federal Sentences in FY 2014 - Breitbart

Except those aren't solutions. Want Americans to stop dying of overdoses? Start treating drug addition like a medical issue instead of a criminal one.

Fact is, undocumented aliens commit less crimes per capita than people who are born here.

Treating junkies is a failure almost every time it's been tried. True me, I know these people. My cousin lost her 27 year old son almost two years ago. He was being treated since he was 15 years old. I've rented to them. They stayed straight for a while, but slipped back into using and I had to evict them because they could no longer work. I know two guys that spent over five years in prison partly because of drugs. When they got out, they both went back on them within the first six months of being free.

The solution is to reduce the amount of drugs coming into this country, not letting them come in and then trying to figure out a solution to the problem.

 

[JoeB131]

And racists, sexists, homophobe is?

You on the left are so brainwashed you don't even realize it.

10 years ago, I was more rightwing than you are. And then I busted up my knee, and my Romney loving boss showed me the true meaning of Christmas.

If you think there isn't plenty of racism and homophobia on your side, you are deluded. Remember when Bush ran on saving marriage from the mean old gays. And you guys fell for it. Then he wrecked the economy.

 

[JoeB131]

Well if a person wants to risk five years in prison if caught here, they are going to do it anyway. But most will opt to stay out of our country, just like the reduction of illegals trying to get in now because of Trump. For the ones we do lock up, that's five years we don't have to risk being victims of their crimes. And if it were up to me, anybody caught here illegally would be locked up for five years. Then we wouldn't need a wall.

You do realize that it costs about $90,000 a year to lock someone up, right? And where are you going to put the all, as we don't have enough room for all the prisoners we have now.

Treating junkies is a failure almost every time it's been tried. True me, I know these people. My cousin lost her 27 year old son almost two years ago. He was being treated since he was 15 years old. I've rented to them. They stayed straight for a while, but slipped back into using and I had to evict them because they could no longer work. I know two guys that spent over five years in prison partly because of drugs. When they got out, they both went back on them within the first six months of being free.

Funny, Cindy McCain and Rush Limbaugh are junkies, and we were able to treat them just fine. Of course, they were rich and white and got access to good programs. So, you see, if you are poor and of color, we throw you in prison at the taxpayers' expense

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

You do realize that it costs about $90,000 a year to lock someone up, right? And where are you going to put the all, as we don't have enough room for all the prisoners we have now.

You do realize you are FOS, don't you?

SUMMARY:
The fee to cover the average cost of incarceration for Federal inmates in Fiscal Year 2015 was $31,977.65 ($87.61 per day). (Please note: There were 365 days in FY 2015.) The average annual cost to confine an inmate in a Residential Re-entry Center for Fiscal Year 2015 was $26,082.90 ($71.46 per day).

Federal Register :: Annual Determination of Average Cost of Incarceration

The idea of a deterrent is so that people will not commit the crime. Therefore there won't be that many offenders to worry about locking up.

Funny, Cindy McCain and Rush Limbaugh are junkies, and we were able to treat them just fine. Of course, they were rich and white and got access to good programs. So, you see, if you are poor and of color, we throw you in prison at the taxpayers' expense

And how many rich white people went to get help but still couldn't kick the habit? Off the top of my head, Artie Lange who was a cohost on the Howard Stern show. Steve Tyler of Aerosmith had a long struggle with drugs and probably still does. He even fell off of a stage a few years ago. Whitney Houston was another recent one.

There is a whole list of rich white people who were hooked and treatment didn't help. Personally, I don't know anybody who ever kicked the habit because of treatment.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

And racists, sexists, homophobe is?

You on the left are so brainwashed you don't even realize it.

10 years ago, I was more rightwing than you are. And then I busted up my knee, and my Romney loving boss showed me the true meaning of Christmas.

If you think there isn't plenty of racism and homophobia on your side, you are deluded. Remember when Bush ran on saving marriage from the mean old gays. And you guys fell for it. Then he wrecked the economy.

You keep repeating the same dumb story over and over. Why is it dumb? Because you expect people here to believe you went from Democrat to Republican because of one guy you worked with. And if there is any truth to that, it's about the stupidest reason I can think of to switch parties. Your "boss" was not the RNC nor had any leadership in the party. As for Romney, he wasn't a conservative and barely a Republican. So I can only assume your boss was an establishment guy which is almost the same as a liberal.

 

[Mac1958]

Now that political "discourse" in this country has devolved to little more than personal attacks, hyperbole and distortion aimed at the other "side" -- and I obviously ain't just talking about USMB -- and now that the two "sides" can exist in alternate universes in terms of the "news" they choose to believe, it would be nice to have a template from which the rest of us can view this crippling debacle.

I'm sure we can all agree that the constant use of vicious personal attacks, hyperbole and distortion will not change a person's mind, and instead will almost certainly just serve to strengthen their already-held beliefs. Human nature.

So, two questions:

Would it be safe to say that you're no longer interested in changing the minds of the other side?

Would it also be safe to say that your goal now is to beat the other side, and if so, what would that look like on a practical basis?
.

Yes and not just beat them but absolutely destroy them.

Okay, so what would that actually look like? Do you mean make it so that everyone just agreed with your side?
.

Adults CAN NOT be made to think correctly so they would be put in prison camps and the worst would be tried and executed for treason. Children can be helped so they would be given to couples who can't have kids and be raised correctly. There should be one main goal of ANY nation and that's the preservation and safety of our race. Anything else comes 2nd.

Well, that's an original plan.
.

 

[Preacher]

Now that political "discourse" in this country has devolved to little more than personal attacks, hyperbole and distortion aimed at the other "side" -- and I obviously ain't just talking about USMB -- and now that the two "sides" can exist in alternate universes in terms of the "news" they choose to believe, it would be nice to have a template from which the rest of us can view this crippling debacle.

I'm sure we can all agree that the constant use of vicious personal attacks, hyperbole and distortion will not change a person's mind, and instead will almost certainly just serve to strengthen their already-held beliefs. Human nature.

So, two questions:

Would it be safe to say that you're no longer interested in changing the minds of the other side?

Would it also be safe to say that your goal now is to beat the other side, and if so, what would that look like on a practical basis?
.

Yes and not just beat them but absolutely destroy them.

Okay, so what would that actually look like? Do you mean make it so that everyone just agreed with your side?
.

Adults CAN NOT be made to think correctly so they would be put in prison camps and the worst would be tried and executed for treason. Children can be helped so they would be given to couples who can't have kids and be raised correctly. There should be one main goal of ANY nation and that's the preservation and safety of our race. Anything else comes 2nd.

Well, that's an original plan.
.

Eh. Not sure if its ALL been done together before but some of it was done before.

 

[Redfish]

Look, if 2008, where almost all of these assholes lost value in their homes and salaries and stock options didn't change their minds, nothing I'm going to say to them is.

Maybe because unlike you, they studied the problem and rightfully shared the blame with the Democrats instead of running around like a maniac screaming BUSH! BUSH! BUSH!

cant tell who you are responding to, please use the "reply" button.

I did and it's posted as a reply. I don't know what you're looking at.

not on my screen, weird.

No, I think this service works differently with different browsers or systems. There are times when I see quotes with no reply from the poster, but others reply to the post so apparently they see something my computer doesn't. Of course I have a Mac and they don't work with everything on the internet.

funny, the entire conversation shows up in this post.

 

[Redfish]

Fortunately, at present those of us in the middle are still the numeric majority, and I do sense that our numbers are growing.

Well, that would be wonderful, but I'm not so sure.

I'm seeing partisan politics - and its associated behaviors - infecting our society, our culture, on virtually every level. You can't escape it. And (just anecdotally) I'm seeing friends, associates and clients being more and more likely to just lose their shit and start ranting about political stuff at the tiniest opportunity. Holy crap.

I dunno, I hope you're right.
.

I agree that it is very troubling watching what is going on in our country, it appears that the hate mongers are winning at times. The constant demonizing of a duly elected president has never happened to this extent.

There are parallels in history, the rise of the third reich, Mao's rise to power, Stalin and Mussolini, Pol Pot, the Iranian ayatollahs. In every case the would-be rulers controlled the media and the message and engaged in wide spread indoctrination of the masses.

The question is whether the majority of americans will see through and reject it.

At this point I see zero (0) reason to believe that we'll rise en masse and reject this, because of the very nature of the problem.

The crazed wings have all the passion & energy (due to the fact that they're crazed), and therefore will most likely retain control of the conversation. And if I'm right that more and more people are becoming radicalized, that will only feed on itself.

It's bad enough that the problem has gotten this bad. But worse, when something becomes this deeply cultural, fixing it becomes much tougher.
.

I am hopeful that the recent congressional votes are an indicator that the radicals are losing influence and that sanity is returning. If I am wrong, this country is headed to another civil war, secessions, break up, or worse.

My general guess (and I'm horrible at guessing at political stuff, stipulated) is that this is more of a last gasp than it is a macro change in direction. That's not a slam, but I'm not seeing the Republicans lifting one finger to address the coming demographic shift.

Maybe there's a plan somewhere, a strategy in place to change minds from where we're probably going. And that kind of leads back to the point of the thread.
.

the real problem is that they have sat back and allowed the demographic shift to take place. You may be right, it may be too late to get the country back to the constitution and individual freedom accompanied with individual responsibility.

 

[Mac1958]

Well, that would be wonderful, but I'm not so sure.

I'm seeing partisan politics - and its associated behaviors - infecting our society, our culture, on virtually every level. You can't escape it. And (just anecdotally) I'm seeing friends, associates and clients being more and more likely to just lose their shit and start ranting about political stuff at the tiniest opportunity. Holy crap.

I dunno, I hope you're right.
.

I agree that it is very troubling watching what is going on in our country, it appears that the hate mongers are winning at times. The constant demonizing of a duly elected president has never happened to this extent.

There are parallels in history, the rise of the third reich, Mao's rise to power, Stalin and Mussolini, Pol Pot, the Iranian ayatollahs. In every case the would-be rulers controlled the media and the message and engaged in wide spread indoctrination of the masses.

The question is whether the majority of americans will see through and reject it.

At this point I see zero (0) reason to believe that we'll rise en masse and reject this, because of the very nature of the problem.

The crazed wings have all the passion & energy (due to the fact that they're crazed), and therefore will most likely retain control of the conversation. And if I'm right that more and more people are becoming radicalized, that will only feed on itself.

It's bad enough that the problem has gotten this bad. But worse, when something becomes this deeply cultural, fixing it becomes much tougher.
.

I am hopeful that the recent congressional votes are an indicator that the radicals are losing influence and that sanity is returning. If I am wrong, this country is headed to another civil war, secessions, break up, or worse.

My general guess (and I'm horrible at guessing at political stuff, stipulated) is that this is more of a last gasp than it is a macro change in direction. That's not a slam, but I'm not seeing the Republicans lifting one finger to address the coming demographic shift.

Maybe there's a plan somewhere, a strategy in place to change minds from where we're probably going. And that kind of leads back to the point of the thread.
.

the real problem is that they have sat back and allowed the demographic shift to take place. You may be right, it may be too late to get the country back to the constitution and individual freedom accompanied with individual responsibility.

They have indeed sat back and watched it happen. How they didn't see this coming is an abject mystery.
.

 

[JoeB131]

You do realize you are FOS, don't you?

That's federal inmates... not local.

And how many rich white people went to get help but still couldn't kick the habit? O.... Whitney Houston was another recent one.

Whitney Houston was white?

You do stumble onto an interesting point, though. Whether or not those rich people were successful in their treatments or not, and whether they were white or not, the fact is, rich addicts don't go to prison. Poor ones do.

You keep repeating the same dumb story over and over. Why is it dumb? Because you expect people here to believe you went from Democrat to Republican because of one guy you worked with. And if there is any truth to that, it's about the stupidest reason I can think of to switch parties.

Well, no, actually losing $20,000 to pay medical bills my insurance should have covered, taking a $15,000 a year pay cut, and having my property value drop from $116,000 to less than $47,000 and watching half of my 401K vaporize in a couple of months. I'm reasonably sure you probably had similar experiences in 2008, but you did this.

Your "boss" was not the RNC nor had any leadership in the party. As for Romney, he wasn't a conservative and barely a Republican. So I can only assume your boss was an establishment guy which is almost the same as a liberal.

Guy, you see, this is where you are deluded. You really think that the GOP and guys like my boss care about your religious, sexual and racial fears. They don't. Oh, my boss did drop the N-bomb in front of me once talking about Obama.

No, no, no... these guys have their goals- cut taxes for the rich, loosen the regulations so they can screw you a little more, and making sure your job pays a little bit less so they can make themselves richer.

But the thing you care about like throwing out the Mexicans and stopping the gays from getting married. That shit never happens.