Turn deserts green as alternative theory on stabilization of the climate?

Is turning deserts green a win, win, win way to address stabilization of the climate?

  • No

    Votes: 6 50.0%
  • Yes

    Votes: 1 8.3%
  • Yes, at least this will produce more food which is a good thing for all of us.

    Votes: 2 16.7%
  • Other answer, please be specific in a reply

    Votes: 3 25.0%
  • No, only the Carbon Tax Theory will really work to stabilize the climate

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    12
OK, so what about what seems to be a very different situation UNDER the massive land based Greenland Ice Sheet in comparison to what is happening under Antarctica.

Greenland ice seems to have a lot of liquid water lakes and rivers under it but such is not the case for the vast majority of Antarctica, [with the possible exception of the West Antarctic ice Sheet].

Over the next decades and centuries if the land based Greenland Ice Sheet calves vastly more ice bergs than happens in Antarctica, would not this decrease of the weight of ice near the North Pole, mean that the massive weight of the Antarctica ice sheet puts our planet closer to an imbalance toward the south pole?



What a Glacial River Reveals About the Greenland Ice Sheet​






CO2 FRAUD loves to talk about


"warming" deep in the oceans... caused by CO2 in the "atmosphere?"

what is "under ice age glacier"



because NOBODY WILL EVER CHECK TO SEE IF THEY ARE LYING AGAIN....


and they do it because more and more people are noticing the incredibly obvious truth that


EARTH HAS NOT WARMED AT ALL FOR THE PAST CENTURY
 
My guess is that this is the perfect location for a mega-project of sea water desalination plus a pipeline.

Why? ... any soybean farmer will tell you we have enough food ... California officials just give it to school aged children ... bunch of raghead commies ...
 
Actually, you might even be correct, but at minimum this is a more constructive idea than any variation of a Carbon Tax!


B. None of the above.

The Earth is a giant Sphere (25K mi circumference at equator) hurtling thru space while spinning 1000MPH at the Equator, burning sun like hot at the core.

Planting a tree or driving a Tesla won't make a teaspoon of difference. Global Deep State nonsense.
 
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WE need desalination now for already "green" areas that are drying out because we have


TOO MANY HUMANS CONSUMING TOO MUCH FINITE LAND BASED FRESH WATER

and CO2 FRAUD blocks that truth because CO2 FRAUD loves the fires...
I totally agree with you on that point. But this entire general idea may be one of the only ways to get influential "Greens" in high places, to change the way that they approach well planned and fully financed plans for desalination plus a pipeline. At this time environmentalists may grab hold of one creature who might perhaps be negatively impacted by that project, and voila, they have their perfect excuse to shut down the entire project on a technicality.
 
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At that time I lived only five kilo-meters from the Atlantic Ocean and the lake that our house was on was classified as tidal water due to the fact that once or twice each year there would be a super high tide and ocean water would go into the very lake that our house was on.

No, it is because pretty much any water that close to the ocean is termed "Brackish". Sorry, long term fisherman here. That water is still in the region where fresh and salt water are merging. For those of us that love fishing for ocean migratory species, that is actually the zone many of us look for.

Because salmon, migrating trout and other species that move from the oceans upstream to spawn always have to stop in that area of the river for a while. So their bodies can adapt to returning to fresh water again after spending years in the ocean. And that brackish zone is an awesome place to catch salmon.

It is not just because "once or twice a year", it is because that pond is brackish water. And that means tidal zone, because it would also not be unusual to see salt water species in there.
 
B. None of the above.

The Earth is a giant Sphere (25K mi circumference at equator) hurtling thru space while spinning 1000MPH at te Equatoe burning sun like hot at the core.

Planting a tree or driving a Tesla won't make a teaspoon of difference. Global Deep State nonsense.
Your idea may seem logical on the surface but I am NOT talking about one Tesla or one tree!

I am talking about a significant number of mega-projects that could be termed "Phase 2 of The Abraham Accords?"

Here is a statement from an Islamic "Hadith" that apparently is well over a thousand years old.


Book 005, Number 2208:
"Abu Huraira reported Allah's Messenger (way peace be upon him) as saying: The Last Hour will not come before wealth becomes abundant and overflowing, so much so that a man takes Zakat out of his property and cannot find anyone to accept it from him and till the land of Arabia becomes meadows and rivers."
SAHIH MUSLIM, BOOK 25: The Book on General Behaviour (Kitab Al-Adab)

This ancient Islamic prediction fits beautifully with Isaiah chapter thirty five.

The two major ideas in that prediction not only relate to stabilization of the climate through turning deserts green but they could set in motion a series of events that also prevents what could be termed "Bear Market 2026 to 2036."

I am talking about a significant redirection of the entire world economy away from the control of the "Neo-Malthusians" over to the control of people who have not sold their souls for wealth and fame and power.

"Wealth becomes abundant and overflowing" on one levels fits with what robotics and Artificial Intelligence are likely to do to the entire world economy.

Now I will give you something that I wrote a year or two ago but it will let you know how huge this could potentially grow to?

If Jews and Christians and Muslims can begin to cooperate more and more and more and fight with one another less and less, then this trend will shift the direction of the whole world economy more and more over the coming years. Every major shift in history begins as what might seem like a small idea or event.

Will world peace begin with immigrants from many nations who go to Canada and find out ways to address the root causes of the conflicts that were going on in the nations that they left?

I am hopeful that this will be the case, for example, immigrants to Canada from the Middle East may be able to turn the world away from the Al Gore Carbon Tax Theory and the Bill Gates, "Innovation to zero" emissions theory, and instead adopt the more down to earth approach to Climate Change advocated in the Jewish, Islamic and Christian scriptures as well as by a New Mexico biologist and coach.

Here is an ancient Islamic prediction that sounds like a brilliant response to both the threat of rising ocean levels... as well as to the Economic Crisis that it appears some influential people seem to want to occur.

Book 005, Number 2208:
"Abu Huraira reported Allah's Messenger (way peace be upon him) as saying: The Last Hour will not come before wealth becomes abundant and overflowing, so much so that a man takes Zakat out of his property and cannot find anyone to accept it from him and till the land of Arabia becomes meadows and rivers."
SAHIH MUSLIM, BOOK 25: The Book on General Behaviour (Kitab Al-Adab)

Assisting nine point four million Israelis to divert investment away from warfare and instead into large scale desalination of ocean water for
agriculture, reforestation projects and to make life better for everybody who lives in the Middle East will lead to
the fulfillment of Isaiah chapter thirty five. This fits with the Jewish concept of Tikkun Olam.

.. "Tikkun olam (Hebrew: תִּיקּוּן עוֹלָם, lit. 'repair of the world') is a concept in Judaism, interpreted by some within Orthodox
Judaism as the prospect of overcoming all forms of idolatry, and by other Jewish thinkers such as Reform Judaism as an
aspiration to behave and act constructively and beneficially." (Tikkun Olam, Wikipedia)

... "The wilderness and the solitary place shall be glad for them; and the desert shall rejoice, and blossom as the rose.
It shall blossom abundantly, and rejoice even with joyand singing: the glory of Lebanon shall be given unto it, the
excellency of Carmel and Sharon, they shall see the glory of the LORD, and the excellency of our God.

....
Then shall the lame man leap as an hart, and the tongueof the dumb sing: for in the wilderness shall waters break out,
and streams in the desert.
And the parched ground shall become a pool, and the thirsty land springs of water:
in the habitation of dragons,where
each lay, shall be grass with reeds and rushes." (Isaiah 35 : 1, 2, 6, 7 ).


A New Mexico biologist and coach wrote up an alternative theory on stabilization of the climate that fits well with these ancient Islamic and Jewish predictions for the last decades and centuries of human history before our Creator gives us a utopian world where the Holy Spirit is poured out on all flesh.

New Mexico biologist and coach Carl Cantrell.....
"So how is our problem of continental drying causing global warming? It all has to do with vegetation and sunlight. When sun light hits a plant, it causes a process which we call photosynthesis where the energy from the sun light creates oxygen for us to breath, water for us to drink, and is stored as sugar for plants and animals to use. When the same sun light hits the soil, all of its energy turns into heat and is radiated back into the atmosphere, carried away by running surface water such as rain fall, is carried away to other areas by our winds, and diffuses down into the soil towards the earth's crust. All of this warms our planet increasing its average temperature.

Therefore, the less vegetation you have on the planet, the more sunlight is being turned into heat and the warmer the planet becomes. This is very critical because warmer and dryer winds dry out other land areas faster decreasing the vegetation on those land areas. Less humidity in the air also reflects less sun light back out into space so that more sun light strikes the earth and more heat is generated.

The truth is that you can do more to decrease global warming by just reducing the average temperature for the Sahara Desert by one or two degrees than if we humans completely quit using fossil fuels and returned to the cave.

So, how would you start working to resolve this problem? Easy, cool the deserts and get some vegetation growing on them as soon as possible. But the method is much more complex than that. You have to use the prevailing trade winds in relation to the deserts to get the best results as quickly as possible and it will be extremely expensive.

Then we build desalination plants along the coast near these water sheds and pipe water to the tops or ridges of the water sheds[ Carl Cantrell]
 
No, it is because pretty much any water that close to the ocean is termed "Brackish". Sorry, long term fisherman here. That water is still in the region where fresh and salt water are merging. For those of us that love fishing for ocean migratory species, that is actually the zone many of us look for.

Because salmon, migrating trout and other species that move from the oceans upstream to spawn always have to stop in that area of the river for a while. So their bodies can adapt to returning to fresh water again after spending years in the ocean. And that brackish zone is an awesome place to catch salmon.

It is not just because "once or twice a year", it is because that pond is brackish water. And that means tidal zone, because it would also not be unusual to see salt water species in there.
Well said. Some fishermen have caught twenty pound or larger Bass in Indian Harbour Lake, Guysborough County, after one of those events. Bass that large are not exactly native to Nova Scotia, Lakes.

I know that you will catch onto this idea instantly. It is my belief that IF average ocean levels were to rise by ten centi-meters, [four inches], then the high tides on some parts of the BAy of Fundy could well be up by a full meter to a meter and a half in a couple of places.

I believe that tides that high would tend to liquify much of the soil on the Isthmus of Chignecto and soil would begin to wash back into the Bay of Fundy and I suspect it would negatively impact the Bay of Fundy fisheries for Nova Scotia, New Brunswick and some fishing companies on Maine as well.

I admit that this could well take more than a decade or two or three, to occur but it is an idea that could at least get some people willing to say or write something on this general topic?
 
B. None of the above.

The Earth is a giant Sphere (25K mi circumference at equator) hurtling thru space while spinning 1000MPH at the Equator, burning sun like hot at the core.

Planting a tree or driving a Tesla won't make a teaspoon of difference. Global Deep State nonsense.

Except if you plant trees instead of owning an air conditioner ... you can buy a pizza pie every three days with the money you save ...

Saving energy saves you money ... oh, and burning coal or natural gas to charge your Tesla produces more carbon dioxide, not less, so if that's the problem (and I'm not saying it is) then Tesla is part of that problem ...

We need to take 90% of passenger vehicles off the road, including EVs ... where's your blue spirit now that we're asking for real sacrifice ... liberals on bicycles saves the planet ...
 
Except if you plant trees instead of owning an air conditioner ... you can buy a pizza pie every three days with the money you save ...

Saving energy saves you money ... oh, and burning coal or natural gas to charge your Tesla produces more carbon dioxide, not less, so if that's the problem (and I'm not saying it is) then Tesla is part of that problem ...

We need to take 90% of passenger vehicles off the road, including EVs ... where's your blue spirit now that we're asking for real sacrifice ... liberals on bicycles saves the planet ...
Thank you for this good natured and funny response to this topic. I am pretty sure that you are being sarcastic but in case you are being serious you might rather like the evidence that is being discovered that over these last three decades the extra atmospheric carbon dioxide is leading to a significant increase in foliage on trees as well as the growth of many other types of vegetation, even in very dry regions of the earth.

Yes, increased atmospheric carbon dioxide (CO2) can lead to increased foliage growth through the process of carbon fertilization. This happens because CO2 is a key ingredient for photosynthesis, and higher concentrations can spur plant growth, leading to bigger or more numerous leaves, greater leaf area, and even thicker leaves in some cases. However, the extent of this effect is limited by other factors like water and nutrient availability, and the overall consequences are complex

Carbon Dioxide Fertilization Greening Earth, Study Finds​

The headshot image of Karl B. Hille

Karl B. Hille​

APR 26, 2016
ARTICLE
From a quarter to half of Earth’s vegetated lands has shown significant greening over the last 35 years largely due to rising levels of atmospheric carbon dioxide, according to a new study published in the journal Nature Climate Change on April 25.

An international team of 32 authors from 24 institutions in eight countries led the effort, which involved using satellite data from NASA’s Moderate Resolution Imaging Spectrometer and the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration’s Advanced Very High Resolution Radiometer instruments to help determine the leaf area index, or amount of leaf cover, over the planet’s vegetated regions. The greening represents an increase in leaves on plants and trees equivalent in area to two times the continental United States.


 
Soil certainly isn't a problem in the southern San Joaquin Valley ... Bakersfield gets 5 inches of rain per year ... and Antarctica soil is under 2 miles of solid ice ... both are deserts ...

I didn't want to get too technical ... but I guess I'll have to ... in order to form rain, we must have uplift in the atmospheric column ... no uplift, no rain ... now most sunlight hits the equator, which warms the air above it, and warm air rises ... lots and lots of rain at the equator ... but what goes up must come down ... this happens at 30º latitude both hemispheres ... see Atmospheric circulation - Wikipedia for a good diagram ...

So this is where we find the desert belts on Earth ... where the air is descending in the atmospheric column ... 30º is where we find the Sonora/Mojave deserts, the Sahara, Arabia, Atacama, The Kalahari ... and yes, Australia ... 90º is where we find the Arctic and Antarctic deserts ... all of which are very specific atmospheric condition, what climatology is concerned with ...

The desert climate has nothing to do with soils ... as demonstrated by the Imperial Valley ... 3 inches rain annually and no hardpan ... this massive agricultural area grows everything in abundance ... but it takes all the Colorado River water, little is left over for Arizona, Utah or Nevada ... and none at all for the Sea of Cortez ... AND there's hardpan where it does rain 20 inches a year up by Stockton ... our neighbor couldn't grow trees, only grains, hardpan was at the surface in some places ... our orchard was only 1/4 mile away where the hard pan dipped down enough to get almonds and walnuts to grow (yeah, it was a nut farm) ...

Soil has nothing to do with the weather, so it has nothing to do with climate ...
Ever tried to dig a hole in the ground outside of Vegas?
About 6 inches down you hit hardpan everywhere.

Just saying...

And Los Angeles CA?
I can count on one hand how many times it's rained there in my lifetime.
Just saying.

Texas has a mix of desert and green areas....why?
 
Not completely true.

They are dry because the soil is not deep enough to hold surface moisture.

Most of the deserts in the USA and Middle East all have either hardpan at 6 inches deep or a high salt content in the soil.

Israel has overcome some of this by breaking up its hardpan and treating it. Then careful and involved irrigation techniques that are expensive. But they and Egypt always have had the groceries for the neighborhood.
The Desert in those areas between Israel and Egypt have a lot of water if they dig wells. But between the huge amount of rock and hardpan....why bother?
It's not a question of water....it's soil...



Iran used to have the Tigris and Euphrates rivers....currently they are both dry due to being over used for population growth the river beds are currently filled with weeds and trash. The desert soil in that area is fine like powder....but the high salt content is what keeps it sterile. Iran actually has the world's finest saffron. We haven't seen any since the Obama Administration. The stuff coming out of Afghanistan is okayish but still not as good as Iran can produce.

India's Rivers are more garbage, toxic industrial and residential waste than water.

I'm unsure of the issues For Australia.

Water is not really the problem with Deserts.
True. Fertile topsoil is key.
 
So is retained moisture.
Fertile topsoil retains moisture.

Most desert 'greening' is temporary and little or no soil is actually built. Many (blown in) seeds have enough nutrients within them to produce green sprouts and a few root hairs, but without fertile soil and water beneath they soon die.

Better to expand grasslands, permanent pastures, and afforestation on existing productive soils.
 
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I can count on one hand how many times it's rained there in my lifetime.
Just saying.

I lived in LA for many years, it can get some absolutely torrential downpours. But the soil is thin so it never stays long.



That's why desert areas are notorious for flash floods.

But I have seen multiple downpours like that a year, so unless you are two that is not accurate.
 
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Thank you for this good natured and funny response to this topic. I am pretty sure that you are being sarcastic but in case you are being serious you might rather like the evidence that is being discovered that over these last three decades the extra atmospheric carbon dioxide is leading to a significant increase in foliage on trees as well as the growth of many other types of vegetation, even in very dry regions of the earth.

Yes ... and I'm also aware that higher temperatures increases rainfall ... even in desert areas ... burn tires ... Amazon sells carbon dioxide bubblers for aquariums to help with the plant growth ... although there's several other nutrients that have to be available ... nitrogen, phosphorus and potassium ... and of course ... water ...
 
Ever tried to dig a hole in the ground outside of Vegas?
About 6 inches down you hit hardpan everywhere.

Just saying...

And Los Angeles CA?
I can count on one hand how many times it's rained there in my lifetime.
Just saying.

Texas has a mix of desert and green areas....why?

I've dug plenty of holes north of Vegas ... no hardpan ... 6 inches is likely diskpan ... how often do you rip the soil? ...

You must not be very old ... it rains 15 inches a year in LA ... now that drops down to 10 inches in the Inland Empire and of course no one's doubting the Coachella Valley is a desert ...

Texas has a mix of desert and green areas? ... are you sure? ... Gasquet, California averages 91 inches of rain; Death Valley averages 2 inches ... why? ... they are very far apart ... far enough to be in different climates ... West Texas is on the lee side of the Rockies, always dry there ... East Texas enjoys Gulf humidity streaming north, lots of thunderstorms ...
 
15th post
I totally agree with you on that point. But this entire general idea may be one of the only ways to get influential "Greens" in high places, to change the way that they approach well planned and fully financed plans for desalination plus a pipeline. At this time environmentalists may grab hold of one creature who might perhaps be negatively impacted by that project, and voila, they have their perfect excuse to shut down the entire project on a technicality.



There is only one way to "change" the treasonous fudgebaking liars behind CO2 FRAUD, and that is up to Pam Bondi, and, well...


WE'RE WAITING....

You may have noticed that early in Trump 45's term Trump was all of a sudden just CERTAIN that "Global Warming" was in fact fraud. Trump's mistake was asking traitor Jeff Sessions to prosecute it....
 
No, it is because pretty much any water that close to the ocean is termed "Brackish". Sorry, long term fisherman here. That water is still in the region where fresh and salt water are merging. For those of us that love fishing for ocean migratory species, that is actually the zone many of us look for.

Because salmon, migrating trout and other species that move from the oceans upstream to spawn always have to stop in that area of the river for a while. So their bodies can adapt to returning to fresh water again after spending years in the ocean. And that brackish zone is an awesome place to catch salmon.

It is not just because "once or twice a year", it is because that pond is brackish water. And that means tidal zone, because it would also not be unusual to see salt water species in there.



25 years ago in San Diego the argument against desalination was....

the added salt would make the water too salty and kill clams etc...


OH the horrors, a couple of clams... which isn't even true of course... but think of the tradeoff...

a few clams or... a $20 billion Palisades fire...

NICE....
 
Thank you for this good natured and funny response to this topic. I am pretty sure that you are being sarcastic but in case you are being serious you might rather like the evidence that is being discovered that over these last three decades the extra atmospheric carbon dioxide is leading to a significant increase in foliage on trees as well as the growth of many other types of vegetation, even in very dry regions of the earth.



Life adapts.

Some of the estimates of Jurassic air pressure being 5 fold today's are about what air pressure was required for the ancient flying dinosaur to fly....

We have cicadas, and if you've ever watched a cicada fly, it isn't very good. It starts flying and then flutters and drops etc. Cicadas were biologically engineered in a time when Earth air pressure was higher, a lot higher. Cicadas are life's answer to... how to survive a massive meteor/asteroid hit.... stay asleep for another few years, then wake up and all your "food needs" are dead wood and water.... life goes on.
 
Life adapts.

Some of the estimates of Jurassic air pressure being 5 fold today's are about what air pressure was required for the ancient flying dinosaur to fly....

We have cicadas, and if you've ever watched a cicada fly, it isn't very good. It starts flying and then flutters and drops etc. Cicadas were biologically engineered in a time when Earth air pressure was higher, a lot higher. Cicadas are life's answer to... how to survive a massive meteor/asteroid hit.... stay asleep for another few years, then wake up and all your "food needs" are dead wood and water.... life goes on.
Wow!

I had heard that everything was different in previous time period but I so thank you for this specific explanation of exactly how previous time periods were not like what we are used to.
 
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