Turkey looking east, turning its back on the West?

[ekrem]

Yep, advancing so fast...

Another province American commenting on issues he has no clue about. How I love these guys:
http://www.usmessageboard.com/the-middle-east-general/113806-weak-man-of-west-asia.html
http://www.usmessageboard.com/economy/122907-econ-gr-11-st-xchg-100-a.html
http://www.usmessageboard.com/economy/110385-state-development-plan-2009-2013-a.html
http://www.usmessageboard.com/economy/116808-fiscal-rule-concept.html

 

[Shai]

All countries that have not been known as friendly countries to the West.

Who is friendly to the "West" (read: USA) is being decided in Washington.
Who is friendly to Turks is being decided in Ankara. Simple as that.
East, West, North, South: A country confident of itself looks into all directions based on its own interests. This is nothing unique of Turkey.

100% agree with this.
There is a saying that says "Tell me who your friends are and I'll tell you who you are"

Turkey tells us that Iran is a friend of hers (from what you say its because they have the same interests) , now we can tell you who Turkey is.

 

[hipeter924]

Yep, advancing so fast...

Another province American commenting on issues he has no clue about. How I love these guys:
http://www.usmessageboard.com/the-middle-east-general/113806-weak-man-of-west-asia.html
http://www.usmessageboard.com/economy/122907-econ-gr-11-st-xchg-100-a.html
http://www.usmessageboard.com/economy/110385-state-development-plan-2009-2013-a.html
http://www.usmessageboard.com/economy/116808-fiscal-rule-concept.html

You are still a developing nation, and that image was of Istanbul in Turkey and I don't buy your statistics, you rely on the west and the east for trade. There is a saying, what people give they can also take away. The moment you start showing brotherhood with middle eastern terrorists, and violating the territorial integrity of China expect all those lovely loans you are getting to disappear.

 

[ekrem]

You are still a developing nation, and that image was of Istanbul in Turkey and I don't buy your statistics, you rely on the west and the east for trade. There is a saying, what people give they can also take away. The moment you start showing brotherhood with middle eastern terrorists, and violating the territorial integrity of China expect all those lovely loans you are getting to disappear.

Foreign shareholders of US debt
http://www.ustreas.gov/tic/mfh.txt
= 3957.4 Billion $

Public Debt ---- (Turkey) ------------------- (USA)
--------------------48.5 % of GDP ----------- 60 % of GDP

Economy of the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Economy of Turkey - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The difference is, your Public debt is poised to skyrocket going Greece-way,
ours is to sink.
http://www.usmessageboard.com/economy/116808-fiscal-rule-concept.html

 

[ekrem]

Turkey tells us that Iran is a friend of hers (from what you say its because they have the same interests) , now we can tell you who Turkey is.

I tell you, who Turkey is:
Turkey lives in peace with Iran since 1639 with Treaty of Kasri Sirin
Treaty of Zuhab - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Iran and Turkey probably have the oldest peacefull border in whole world. USA was not even founded back then.

 

[Douger]

Lets face it. Most countries throughout the world don't much give a damn about the west due to it's imperialistic ideals and support for the biggest farce ever thrown at mankind, IsNtReal.
Turkey doesn't need the " west".
Nobody does.

 

[NYKnicksRule]

Turkey has rightfully determined that Israel is simply a glorified aparthide system that focuses its repression on fellow Muslims. This is with the US and EU support. No wonder Turkey is reconsidering her allies

Except, Israel is the only country in the Middle East that is not apartheid, where every Israeli citizen is constitutionally guaranteed equal rights.

Unlike the Arab Muslim shitholes where freedom, human rights and civil liberties are totally absent.

LOL @ Israel not being an apartheid state. If they are not:

-Why build jewish only housing?
-Are Arab/Palestinians living in Israel adequately represented in their own government?
-Within the next 20-30 years Arab/Palestinians living in Israel will become the majority over Jews. Do you really think Israel will ever have a Muslim leader?

 

[Jos]

Turkey has rightfully determined that Israel is simply a glorified aparthide system that focuses its repression on fellow Muslims. This is with the US and EU support. No wonder Turkey is reconsidering her allies

Except, Israel is the only country in the Middle East that is not apartheid, where every Israeli citizen is constitutionally guaranteed equal rights.

Unlike the Arab Muslim shitholes where freedom, human rights and civil liberties are totally absent.

LOL @ Israel not being an apartheid state. If they are not:

-Why build jewish only housing?
-Are Arab/Palestinians living in Israel adequately represented in their own government?
-Within the next 20-30 years Arab/Palestinians living in Israel will become the majority over Jews. Do you really think Israel will ever have a Muslim leader?

yes

 

[hipeter924]

You are still a developing nation, and that image was of Istanbul in Turkey and I don't buy your statistics, you rely on the west and the east for trade. There is a saying, what people give they can also take away. The moment you start showing brotherhood with middle eastern terrorists, and violating the territorial integrity of China expect all those lovely loans you are getting to disappear.

Foreign shareholders of US debt
http://www.ustreas.gov/tic/mfh.txt
= 3957.4 Billion $

Public Debt ---- (Turkey) ------------------- (USA)
--------------------48.5 % of GDP ----------- 60 % of GDP

Economy of the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Economy of Turkey - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The difference is, your Public debt is poised to skyrocket going Greece-way,
ours is to sink.
http://www.usmessageboard.com/economy/116808-fiscal-rule-concept.html

The US has been through many debt crisis points, and this is one of them. But as history shows infrastructure does count, that is a major thing that Turkey is lacking. India will be a developed nation before Turkey, as will Thailand and China.

So if you think the west or western influence is going away you would be mistaken, in fact the western ideals of democracy, freedom of speech and not hating Jews thanks to American ideas there will be made even stronger to the point you and your Muslim friends want to shoot yourselves.

Because what is in Chinese or Indian classrooms? Pictures of Obama and positive articles about the US, I don't see the hate for America or Israeli's you get in Turkey. So even if lets say the sun sets, like did the British Empire. Turkey will always be a third rate power well behind the US.

As for Iraq and Afghanistan do you really think that if the US leaves, China and Russia will leave you alone? I think you are naive and silly. If the US leaves, Chinese and Russian influence will replace the American and you will have to deal with the same secularizing forces, that want those horrible things such as 'world peace' and 'equality'.

 

[ekrem]

(...)If the US leaves, Chinese and Russian influence will replace the American and you will have to deal with the same secularizing forces, that want those horrible things such as 'world peace' and 'equality'.

Russia is manageable and besides weapons-sales it is too weak to have a serious say in the dynamics of Middle-East. It looks to the Middle-East from a reactionary position. It has no capability to set agenda of region.

Chinese have same foreign policy philosophy as Saudi-Arabia does have.
Quiet, rational, self-centered. No AIPAC cocksuckers in China.
China looks to the world based upon its own interests.
China is currently expanding in Pacific Asia. It will be 1-2 decades till Chinese have the option to meddle in Middle-East. Middle-East is itself growing economically in these 1-2 decades, plus it goes through regional integration.

Russia+China are countries the region must only consider through UN Security Council.

Contrary as you claim, USA is no secularizing force, just look into new Iraqi constitution or at the as-is situation of its Gulf allies.
Contrary as you claim, USA is not standing up for world-peace and equality.
Wake the **** up, dude, we are in no Hollywood movie.

 

[Munin]

Turkey has rightfully determined that Israel is simply a glorified aparthide system that focuses its repression on fellow Muslims. This is with the US and EU support. No wonder Turkey is reconsidering her allies

Turkey has blood on its own hands, with a totalitarian dictatorship against the kurds living in Turkey and a brutal political oppression of the Kurdish rights (yet again they banned the ONLY existing kurdish political party in turkey). Isreal doesn't need to take lessons from Turkey in humanity ... pot ... kettle ... black

Turkey doesn't need the " west".
Nobody does.

Lol, Turkey got its current economic strength because of the Western help and its economic ties with the west. The industrialisation and the means (+ ideas) for it came from the west (Europe), during attaturks reign Turkey became industrialized with help from the West (and even now Turkey still does get a lot of Western Investments, also one of the reasons why it want to join the EU: to get more "Western" help & advantages).

All current booming economies that are within the most powerfull top 10 economies of the world ranking thank their position to economic aid and ties with the west (which is still has the richest consumermarkets and technological advanced products in the world).


* Are in a miserable economic state because they are excluded from help from the west:
- North Korea
- Iran
- Cuba

* Are in a booming economic state because of Help from the West:
- Russia (count how many mc donalds there are in Russia, or how many western companies have already invested there)
- China (the west is the reason for the huge economic growth in China, without the western consumers chinese growth would never have been this spectacular)
- Brasil
- South Korea
- Turkey
- Isreal
- Taiwan
- Japan


Why? Because despite the new growing economies like China the West still holds the power over the World trade (global currencey), the World financial system (IMF, ...), the strongest, most technologically advanced and biggest military alliance in the world, technological superiority, ...

That power can be used to destroy or elevate countries, the muslim world with its conservative backwards traditions have been left behind because they refuse to respect human rights, democracy, ...


I also count Asain countries like Japan, South Korea as Western countries because they have been westernised so much.


Another example why any country that can not have ties with the west is doomed to fail: All high quality Cars are made by the West, all high quality airplanes are made by the west, all high quality computers are made by the west, ...


Maybe if you don't need the West, go sit in the corner with the other losers ... who got shitty economies

 

[hipeter924]

(...)If the US leaves, Chinese and Russian influence will replace the American and you will have to deal with the same secularizing forces, that want those horrible things such as 'world peace' and 'equality'.

Russia is manageable and besides weapons-sales it is too weak to have a serious say in the dynamics of Middle-East. It looks to the Middle-East from a reactionary position. It has no capability to set agenda of region.

Chinese have same foreign policy philosophy as Saudi-Arabia does have.
Quiet, rational, self-centered. No AIPAC cocksuckers in China.
China looks to the world based upon its own interests.
China is currently expanding in Pacific Asia. It will be 1-2 decades till Chinese have the option to meddle in Middle-East. Middle-East is itself growing economically in these 1-2 decades, plus it goes through regional integration.

Russia+China are countries the region must only consider through UN Security Council.

Contrary as you claim, USA is no secularizing force, just look into new Iraqi constitution or at the as-is situation of its Gulf allies.
Contrary as you claim, USA is not standing up for world-peace and equality.
Wake the **** up, dude, we are in no Hollywood movie.

Actually Iraq is becoming more secular, not as result of the US though, the same with Iran and other Muslim nations. But in Iraq the terrorists are too busy blowing up the foreign nationals to worry about Secularism. As for Russia, you diss it at your own peril....Russia can own Turkey as easily as it owned Georgia, even with US military technology Turkey is still militarily weak compared to any other nation in the region. As for China it is already in the middle east and several Islamic nations including Sudan, and it doesn't like religious nut cases especially like your Turkic brother terrorists in China; how many times do the words 'state atheist' have to be said.

 

[ekrem]

Actually Iraq is becoming more secular, not as result of the US though, the same with Iran and other Muslim nations. But in Iraq the terrorists are too busy blowing up the foreign nationals to worry about Secularism. As for Russia, you diss it at your own peril....Russia can own Turkey as easily as it owned Georgia, even with US military technology Turkey is still militarily weak compared to any other nation in the region. As for China it is already in the middle east and several Islamic nations including Sudan, and it doesn't like religious nut cases especially like your Turkic brother terrorists in China; how many times do the words 'state atheist' have to be said.

False assumptions you make:
- Iraq is becoming more secular
- Russia "owning" Turkey the Georgia-way
Turkey and Russia on the Rise | STRATFOR
- China is in Middle-East and it does not like "religious nutcases". Then, why it deals with Sudan? Because of its natural ressources, independently from the form of government Sudan has.

Don't show up with your false world-picture and pretend you know the world.

 

[hipeter924]

Actually Iraq is becoming more secular, not as result of the US though, the same with Iran and other Muslim nations. But in Iraq the terrorists are too busy blowing up the foreign nationals to worry about Secularism. As for Russia, you diss it at your own peril....Russia can own Turkey as easily as it owned Georgia, even with US military technology Turkey is still militarily weak compared to any other nation in the region. As for China it is already in the middle east and several Islamic nations including Sudan, and it doesn't like religious nut cases especially like your Turkic brother terrorists in China; how many times do the words 'state atheist' have to be said.

False assumptions you make:
- Iraq is becoming more secular
- Russia "owning" Turkey the Georgia-way
Turkey and Russia on the Rise | STRATFOR
- China is in Middle-East and it does not like "religious nutcases". Then, why it deals with Sudan? Because of its natural ressources, independently from the form of government Sudan has.

Don't show up with your false world-picture and pretend you know the world.

1. Fail. Dr Ehsan Azari Stanizai
2. Fail because you threaten Armenia's territorial integrity. Armenia has a full military alliance with Russia and is part of CIS, Azeri's (who threaten war against Russia's ally) and Turk's are not and regularly create tension in the region.
3. Fail because Turkey is turning Islamic, it treats its minorities terribly and already is in civil war with the Kurds. These three factors will undermine any economic growth Turkey has (it could divide Turkey into chunks), due to them spending all their money on arms rather than development.
4. Fail again. China’s Xinjiang region: the facts - The National Newspaper
Thanks to your terrorist brothers in China.

 

[ekrem]

1. Fail. Dr Ehsan Azari Stanizai

Here, Post-Saddam Iraqi Constitution:

Article 2:
Islam is the state religion and a basic foundation for the country's laws, and no law may contradict the established provisions of Islam.
Constitution of Iraq - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Nice Secularism.

2. Fail because you threaten Armenia's territorial integrity. Armenia has a full military alliance with Russia and is part of CIS, Azeri's (who threaten war against Russia's ally) and Turk's are not and regularly create tension in the region.

We do not threaten Armenia. We only threaten USA, because USA is superpower and any moves against USA need threatening of the move, so USA knows we mean business in the conflict of diverting interests.
Other countries, we do not threaten, we go directly into clash of interests -- if there are any diverting interests with countries.

Besides that, it is Armenia that does not acknowledge territorial integrity of Turkey.
Treaty of Kars, which defines current Caucasus borders was signed between Soviets and Turks. After collapse of Soviet Empire, independent Georgia and Azerbaijan ratified Treaty of Kars.
Armenia does not acknowledge Treaty of Kars:
Treaty of Kars - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Armenian Declaration of Independence and Armenian Constitution call Turkey's eastern provinces Western Armenia. Armenia does not clearly recognize Turkey's national borders which defined in the Kars Treaty.

3. Fail because Turkey is turning Islamic, it treats its minorities terribly and already is in civil war with the Kurds. These three factors will undermine any economic growth Turkey has (it could divide Turkey into chunks), due to them spending all their money on arms rather than development.

Stratfor:
Only one-fifth of Turkey’s population is non-Turkish, while roughly half of Iran is non-Persian. Iran requires a large army simply to maintain rule at home, while Turkey has the relative freedom to expend resources on power projection tools such as an air force and navy. The difference shines through in their respective economies as well. Despite having nearly identical populations in terms of size, Iran’s economy is only two-fifths the size of Turkey’s.

Free Article for Non-Members | STRATFOR

Stratfor:
Considering the future of the region, the only power in a position to assert its consistent presence is Turkey. Iran, its nearest competitor, is neither in competition with Turkey, nor does it have a fraction of its power — nuclear weapons or not.
(...)
Watching Turkey make its moves, we wonder less about the direction it is going than about the limits of its ambition.
Turkey as a Regional Power | STRATFOR

4. Fail again. China’s Xinjiang region: the facts - The National Newspaper
Thanks to your terrorist brothers in China.

Turkey has limited options of granting support to Xinjian Uyghurs, as Turkey recognizes territorial integrity of China and Turkey does not grant support to non-state actors within China. Yet, no other Muslim nation besides Turkey has condemned the Chinese state oppression in Xinjiang.

The Uighurs, Central Asia and Turkey: Troubles across Turkestan | The Economist

 

[ekrem]

(...)Turkey is turning Islamic(...)

“Turkey is not an issue, Turkey is an actor” -- Turkish Foreign Minister Davutoglu.

According to anecdotes circulating in Washington, the ex-academic [Mr. Davutoglu] thumped the table and shouted at Hillary Clinton, secretary of state, when he went to demand US help in securing the pro-Gaza activists’ release.
FT.com / Comment / Analysis - Turkey: The sentinel swivels
Marmara aid-ship activists were released after that.


NATO's deputy secretary general now a Turk.
TRT

Next Chairman of the NATO Military Committee will also be a Turk.
Current Chairman is Giampaolo Di Paola from Italy.

 

[ekrem]

(...)

Yeah, yeah the White Man's burden.
Wake-up.

German edition of Financial Times:
- Turkey is growth engine of South-East Europe.
- Turkish consume to grow 6.7 % this year
- Greece, Bulgaria, Romania - immediate EU neighbours of Turkey - will profit from Turkish consume.
- Economic growth this year: 7.9 %

Türkei: Boom am Bosporus | FTD.de

 

[Munin]

(...)

Yeah, yeah the White Man's burden.
Wake-up.

German edition of Financial Times:
- Turkey is growth engine of South-East Europe.
- Turkish consume to grow 6.7 % this year
- Greece, Bulgaria, Romania - immediate EU neighbours of Turkey - will profit from Turkish consume.
- Economic growth this year: 7.9 %

Türkei: Boom am Bosporus | FTD.de

lol, that s a good one ... did you know that a lot of Turks are actually "white man"? (This is a result of the european conquests in Turkisch history) If you want to make a racist comment, please make one that makes sense.


Turkey would only be producing shit if it were not for its trade relations with the west (which still consists of the biggest consumer markets of the world)

 

[ekrem]

lol, that s a good one ... did you know that a lot of Turks are actually "white man"? (This is a result of the european conquests in Turkisch history) If you want to make a racist comment, please make one that makes sense.


Turkey would only be producing shit if it were not for its trade relations with the west (which still consists of the biggest consumer markets of the world)

We neglected the other markets. Now we care for those markets, which is possible due to end of Cold War and improved relations between Muslims and Turkey. Most of those markets have no general trade rules (WTO membership) we first had to ease political relations to ease exports to there.

(...) Turkey would only be producing shit if it were not for its trade relations with the west

What a qualified statement from an incompetent mouth.
Your graphic is from 2006. So far in 2010 about 25% of Turkish exports have gone to immediate Arab neighbourhood. Europe faces crisis, we have to diversify our markets, with that also the political engagement with those markets.


Turkey makes Newsweek cover
All the European editions of leading international news magazine Newsweek came out with a common cover: Turkey rises.

 

[ekrem]

(...) Europe faces crisis, we have to diversify our markets, with that also the political engagement with those markets.
(...)