Trump’s Budget Is a Perfect Reflection of Republican Values

[Andylusion]

Which is currently ruining health care for millions of Americans. Me being one of them. I can't afford full health insurance anymore. Thanks to Obama.

More claptrap. Insurance companies still sell medically underwritten policies at an affordable price if you can pass underwriting. If you can't, then us ACA supporters have made it possible for you to buy what you could never have bought before ACA,

Compare Health Insurance Plans Online

This is what blows my mind about left-wingers.

No matter how much evidence you provide. No matter how much proof of claim you post. No matter what I say.... he'll find a link and say:

"dur... you are wrong! You don't know your life as much as I do, because my link says so"

I am telling you, I can't afford the health insurance, that is available now. Before I could. Now I can't.

This is a fact. I know, it's my budget, my money, and my health insurance. I made $19K last year, but my insurance premiums when up from $80 to $120 a month. I can't afford that. Period. The end. Game over... you lose.

You can post all the links you want, until the end of time. I know what I applied for, I know what policies I could get, and I couldn't afford any of them. Your links, do not trump my reality.

If I could just send a link to my insurance company, and say "idiot on the web says this proves you have to charge less" then I would do that. I really would. I send them your forum post as proof they have to lower their premiums for me.

That's not how it works moron.

If you are making $19,000 per year, your problem isn't health insurance cost. You need to get off your ass and either get a second job or an education. The rest of us do not owe you subsidized health insurance simply because you are a low achiever.

There you go! The left-wing says they are for the poor constantly.... then when they actually meet a poor person, you attack them.

Did I setup ObamaCare? No. I did not. I opposed Obama care.

But you put in place Obama Care which eliminated my health insurance plan.

So, I got subsidized care last year for $80 a month. YOU paid the rest of the $250 insurance premium.

Do you owe me subsidized health insurance? Not according to my beliefs... but you are the one controlling the law, not me. According to the law, you got to pay my insurance. Whose fault is that? Mine? No. I didn't setup this system. YOU DID.

So the person to blame for you paying my insurance.... is you! Just you and all those stupid ignorant leftards like you.

Spare me your BS crap. Before Obama care, I was easily able to afford my own health insurance. In 2006, I had a policy that was $67 a month, and it covered everything I needed.

YOU eliminated those plans, not me. YOU forced me on to subsidized care, not me. YOU are the reason YOU got to pay my insurance premium. So shut up, and like it. YOU asked for it, YOU got it, and now YOU pay for it.

I opposed Obama care from the start. You can't blame one single speck of this problem on me. Point your finger at your mirror.

"Here in leftard world, an emoji is a great substitute for a fact based discussion!"

I accept your admission of losing the argument. Have a nice day!

 

[Andylusion]

Which is currently ruining health care for millions of Americans. Me being one of them. I can't afford full health insurance anymore. Thanks to Obama.

More claptrap. Insurance companies still sell medically underwritten policies at an affordable price if you can pass underwriting. If you can't, then us ACA supporters have made it possible for you to buy what you could never have bought before ACA,

Compare Health Insurance Plans Online

This is what blows my mind about left-wingers.

No matter how much evidence you provide. No matter how much proof of claim you post. No matter what I say.... he'll find a link and say:

"dur... you are wrong! You don't know your life as much as I do, because my link says so"

I am telling you, I can't afford the health insurance, that is available now. Before I could. Now I can't.

This is a fact. I know, it's my budget, my money, and my health insurance. I made $19K last year, but my insurance premiums when up from $80 to $120 a month. I can't afford that. Period. The end. Game over... you lose.

You can post all the links you want, until the end of time. I know what I applied for, I know what policies I could get, and I couldn't afford any of them. Your links, do not trump my reality.

If I could just send a link to my insurance company, and say "idiot on the web says this proves you have to charge less" then I would do that. I really would. I send them your forum post as proof they have to lower their premiums for me.

That's not how it works moron.

If you are making $19,000 per year, your problem isn't health insurance cost. You need to get off your ass and either get a second job or an education. The rest of us do not owe you subsidized health insurance simply because you are a low achiever.

f you are making $19,000 per year, your problem isn't health insurance cost. You need to get off your ass and either get a second job or an education.

I absolutely agree with you on this point.

If you are making $19,000 per year, your problem isn't health insurance cost. You need to get off your ass and either get a second job or an education. The rest of us do not owe you subsidized health insurance simply because you are a low achiever.

I don't see it as matter of one's being owed or not owed something. Phrasing and construing the matter in an "owed to" context simply isn't the way I see it. You do, clearly. That's that. I understand your stance, and the "owed" syntax implies ideological rigidity; thus I think our conversation on the matter has gone as far as it can.

If I sound like my patience has expired, this is the reason. I have read over and over on this board posts by people opposing ACA because they maintain that they can not afford it. Ok, so their position is that ACA is no good because they don't get free insurance. Never mind the fact that before ACA, they could not buy insurance AT ALL! We fought hard to make insurance available to everyone, so that nobody has to die for lack of access to it, and this is the thanks we get? It is equivalent to a kid crying because he wanted a strawberry ice cream cone, and we gave him chocolate. I get tired of the whining.

This how the rest of the country sees the left.

How the left sees themselves, is that before they came along, no one could afford insurance.

Then they magically made a law that says "affordable care act" which means that care is magically affordable... because it says affordable care act in the name of the law. And they wouldn't call it that, if it didn't do that, so it must, because it says so, therefore it is.

Reminds me of Atlas Shrugged, where the president tells john that he's going to be in charge, and he can makeup whatever rules he wants to require the people to follow. John replies, that he doesn't want to dictate people's lives, he just wants everyone to be free. The president then says to him, then make a law requiring everyone to be free! This is how the left-wing thinks. Results don't matter. Intentions do.

Never mind the fact that before ACA, they could not buy insurance AT ALL

False. Before ObamaCare I had an insurance policy that was $67 a month, that covered everything I needed.

Ok, so their position is that ACA is no good because they don't get free insurance

False. Before ObamaCare I was more than happy to pay for my own health care.

We fought hard to make insurance available to everyone, so that nobody has to die for lack of access to it, and this is the thanks we get?

Just as the cartoon shows... you fought so hard to screw over the American people, and when you succeeded, now you are shocked we're not happy about being screwed over? How dumb are you people?

Let me go beat the absolute snot out of you, and I expect a thank you card in the mail!

Idiots. You jack up our costs, screw over the working people, and then really believe that somehow you should get appreciated for your efforts at harming us. What a moron you are. Even Forest Gump wouldn't be this stupid.

 

[Vandalshandle]

More claptrap. Insurance companies still sell medically underwritten policies at an affordable price if you can pass underwriting. If you can't, then us ACA supporters have made it possible for you to buy what you could never have bought before ACA,

Compare Health Insurance Plans Online

This is what blows my mind about left-wingers.

No matter how much evidence you provide. No matter how much proof of claim you post. No matter what I say.... he'll find a link and say:

"dur... you are wrong! You don't know your life as much as I do, because my link says so"

I am telling you, I can't afford the health insurance, that is available now. Before I could. Now I can't.

This is a fact. I know, it's my budget, my money, and my health insurance. I made $19K last year, but my insurance premiums when up from $80 to $120 a month. I can't afford that. Period. The end. Game over... you lose.

You can post all the links you want, until the end of time. I know what I applied for, I know what policies I could get, and I couldn't afford any of them. Your links, do not trump my reality.

If I could just send a link to my insurance company, and say "idiot on the web says this proves you have to charge less" then I would do that. I really would. I send them your forum post as proof they have to lower their premiums for me.

That's not how it works moron.

If you are making $19,000 per year, your problem isn't health insurance cost. You need to get off your ass and either get a second job or an education. The rest of us do not owe you subsidized health insurance simply because you are a low achiever.

f you are making $19,000 per year, your problem isn't health insurance cost. You need to get off your ass and either get a second job or an education.

I absolutely agree with you on this point.

If you are making $19,000 per year, your problem isn't health insurance cost. You need to get off your ass and either get a second job or an education. The rest of us do not owe you subsidized health insurance simply because you are a low achiever.

I don't see it as matter of one's being owed or not owed something. Phrasing and construing the matter in an "owed to" context simply isn't the way I see it. You do, clearly. That's that. I understand your stance, and the "owed" syntax implies ideological rigidity; thus I think our conversation on the matter has gone as far as it can.

If I sound like my patience has expired, this is the reason. I have read over and over on this board posts by people opposing ACA because they maintain that they can not afford it. Ok, so their position is that ACA is no good because they don't get free insurance. Never mind the fact that before ACA, they could not buy insurance AT ALL! We fought hard to make insurance available to everyone, so that nobody has to die for lack of access to it, and this is the thanks we get? It is equivalent to a kid crying because he wanted a strawberry ice cream cone, and we gave him chocolate. I get tired of the whining.

So in your mind, people who couldn't afford insurance prior to the ACA and can only do so now because we buy it for them, can now afford to pay a 7150 single ded AND a 14300 family ded.

i don't have the slightest concern about what people can afford, and what they can not. I can not afford a Ferrari. my concern is whether or not someone dies simply because he has no access to insurance because he has been denied by the insurance company. before ACA, that was common. After ACA it does not happen. That is a major step forward to joining the rest of the industrialized world.

 

[Vandalshandle]

More claptrap. Insurance companies still sell medically underwritten policies at an affordable price if you can pass underwriting. If you can't, then us ACA supporters have made it possible for you to buy what you could never have bought before ACA,

Compare Health Insurance Plans Online

This is what blows my mind about left-wingers.

No matter how much evidence you provide. No matter how much proof of claim you post. No matter what I say.... he'll find a link and say:

"dur... you are wrong! You don't know your life as much as I do, because my link says so"

I am telling you, I can't afford the health insurance, that is available now. Before I could. Now I can't.

This is a fact. I know, it's my budget, my money, and my health insurance. I made $19K last year, but my insurance premiums when up from $80 to $120 a month. I can't afford that. Period. The end. Game over... you lose.

You can post all the links you want, until the end of time. I know what I applied for, I know what policies I could get, and I couldn't afford any of them. Your links, do not trump my reality.

If I could just send a link to my insurance company, and say "idiot on the web says this proves you have to charge less" then I would do that. I really would. I send them your forum post as proof they have to lower their premiums for me.

That's not how it works moron.

If you are making $19,000 per year, your problem isn't health insurance cost. You need to get off your ass and either get a second job or an education. The rest of us do not owe you subsidized health insurance simply because you are a low achiever.

There you go! The left-wing says they are for the poor constantly.... then when they actually meet a poor person, you attack them.

Did I setup ObamaCare? No. I did not. I opposed Obama care.

But you put in place Obama Care which eliminated my health insurance plan.

So, I got subsidized care last year for $80 a month. YOU paid the rest of the $250 insurance premium.

Do you owe me subsidized health insurance? Not according to my beliefs... but you are the one controlling the law, not me. According to the law, you got to pay my insurance. Whose fault is that? Mine? No. I didn't setup this system. YOU DID.

So the person to blame for you paying my insurance.... is you! Just you and all those stupid ignorant leftards like you.

Spare me your BS crap. Before Obama care, I was easily able to afford my own health insurance. In 2006, I had a policy that was $67 a month, and it covered everything I needed.

YOU eliminated those plans, not me. YOU forced me on to subsidized care, not me. YOU are the reason YOU got to pay my insurance premium. So shut up, and like it. YOU asked for it, YOU got it, and now YOU pay for it.

I opposed Obama care from the start. You can't blame one single speck of this problem on me. Point your finger at your mirror.

"Here in leftard world, an emoji is a great substitute for a fact based discussion!"

I accept your admission of losing the argument. Have a nice day!

Well, I do acknowledge that you are a legend in your own mind....

 

[Doc1]

This is what blows my mind about left-wingers.

No matter how much evidence you provide. No matter how much proof of claim you post. No matter what I say.... he'll find a link and say:

"dur... you are wrong! You don't know your life as much as I do, because my link says so"

I am telling you, I can't afford the health insurance, that is available now. Before I could. Now I can't.

This is a fact. I know, it's my budget, my money, and my health insurance. I made $19K last year, but my insurance premiums when up from $80 to $120 a month. I can't afford that. Period. The end. Game over... you lose.

You can post all the links you want, until the end of time. I know what I applied for, I know what policies I could get, and I couldn't afford any of them. Your links, do not trump my reality.

If I could just send a link to my insurance company, and say "idiot on the web says this proves you have to charge less" then I would do that. I really would. I send them your forum post as proof they have to lower their premiums for me.

That's not how it works moron.

If you are making $19,000 per year, your problem isn't health insurance cost. You need to get off your ass and either get a second job or an education. The rest of us do not owe you subsidized health insurance simply because you are a low achiever.

f you are making $19,000 per year, your problem isn't health insurance cost. You need to get off your ass and either get a second job or an education.

I absolutely agree with you on this point.

If you are making $19,000 per year, your problem isn't health insurance cost. You need to get off your ass and either get a second job or an education. The rest of us do not owe you subsidized health insurance simply because you are a low achiever.

I don't see it as matter of one's being owed or not owed something. Phrasing and construing the matter in an "owed to" context simply isn't the way I see it. You do, clearly. That's that. I understand your stance, and the "owed" syntax implies ideological rigidity; thus I think our conversation on the matter has gone as far as it can.

If I sound like my patience has expired, this is the reason. I have read over and over on this board posts by people opposing ACA because they maintain that they can not afford it. Ok, so their position is that ACA is no good because they don't get free insurance. Never mind the fact that before ACA, they could not buy insurance AT ALL! We fought hard to make insurance available to everyone, so that nobody has to die for lack of access to it, and this is the thanks we get? It is equivalent to a kid crying because he wanted a strawberry ice cream cone, and we gave him chocolate. I get tired of the whining.

So in your mind, people who couldn't afford insurance prior to the ACA and can only do so now because we buy it for them, can now afford to pay a 7150 single ded AND a 14300 family ded.

i don't have the slightest concern about what people can afford, and what they can not. I can not afford a Ferrari. my concern is whether or not someone dies simply because he has no access to insurance because he has been denied by the insurance company. before ACA, that was common. After ACA it does not happen. That is a major step forward to joining the rest of the industrialized world.

Bullshit. The ONLY thing the ACA did was to make Libs feel better about themselves.

"After ACA it does not happen"

It didn't happen prior and we're still paying for their care.

 

[Doc1]

This is what blows my mind about left-wingers.

No matter how much evidence you provide. No matter how much proof of claim you post. No matter what I say.... he'll find a link and say:

"dur... you are wrong! You don't know your life as much as I do, because my link says so"

I am telling you, I can't afford the health insurance, that is available now. Before I could. Now I can't.

This is a fact. I know, it's my budget, my money, and my health insurance. I made $19K last year, but my insurance premiums when up from $80 to $120 a month. I can't afford that. Period. The end. Game over... you lose.

You can post all the links you want, until the end of time. I know what I applied for, I know what policies I could get, and I couldn't afford any of them. Your links, do not trump my reality.

If I could just send a link to my insurance company, and say "idiot on the web says this proves you have to charge less" then I would do that. I really would. I send them your forum post as proof they have to lower their premiums for me.

That's not how it works moron.

If you are making $19,000 per year, your problem isn't health insurance cost. You need to get off your ass and either get a second job or an education. The rest of us do not owe you subsidized health insurance simply because you are a low achiever.

There you go! The left-wing says they are for the poor constantly.... then when they actually meet a poor person, you attack them.

Did I setup ObamaCare? No. I did not. I opposed Obama care.

But you put in place Obama Care which eliminated my health insurance plan.

So, I got subsidized care last year for $80 a month. YOU paid the rest of the $250 insurance premium.

Do you owe me subsidized health insurance? Not according to my beliefs... but you are the one controlling the law, not me. According to the law, you got to pay my insurance. Whose fault is that? Mine? No. I didn't setup this system. YOU DID.

So the person to blame for you paying my insurance.... is you! Just you and all those stupid ignorant leftards like you.

Spare me your BS crap. Before Obama care, I was easily able to afford my own health insurance. In 2006, I had a policy that was $67 a month, and it covered everything I needed.

YOU eliminated those plans, not me. YOU forced me on to subsidized care, not me. YOU are the reason YOU got to pay my insurance premium. So shut up, and like it. YOU asked for it, YOU got it, and now YOU pay for it.

I opposed Obama care from the start. You can't blame one single speck of this problem on me. Point your finger at your mirror.

"Here in leftard world, an emoji is a great substitute for a fact based discussion!"

I accept your admission of losing the argument. Have a nice day!

Well, I do acknowledge that you are a legend in your own mind....

Maybe, but you ARE projecting. You were in "Compliance" you don't know shit about where the rubber meets the road.

 

[Vandalshandle]

More claptrap. Insurance companies still sell medically underwritten policies at an affordable price if you can pass underwriting. If you can't, then us ACA supporters have made it possible for you to buy what you could never have bought before ACA,

Compare Health Insurance Plans Online

This is what blows my mind about left-wingers.

No matter how much evidence you provide. No matter how much proof of claim you post. No matter what I say.... he'll find a link and say:

"dur... you are wrong! You don't know your life as much as I do, because my link says so"

I am telling you, I can't afford the health insurance, that is available now. Before I could. Now I can't.

This is a fact. I know, it's my budget, my money, and my health insurance. I made $19K last year, but my insurance premiums when up from $80 to $120 a month. I can't afford that. Period. The end. Game over... you lose.

You can post all the links you want, until the end of time. I know what I applied for, I know what policies I could get, and I couldn't afford any of them. Your links, do not trump my reality.

If I could just send a link to my insurance company, and say "idiot on the web says this proves you have to charge less" then I would do that. I really would. I send them your forum post as proof they have to lower their premiums for me.

That's not how it works moron.

If you are making $19,000 per year, your problem isn't health insurance cost. You need to get off your ass and either get a second job or an education. The rest of us do not owe you subsidized health insurance simply because you are a low achiever.

f you are making $19,000 per year, your problem isn't health insurance cost. You need to get off your ass and either get a second job or an education.

I absolutely agree with you on this point.

If you are making $19,000 per year, your problem isn't health insurance cost. You need to get off your ass and either get a second job or an education. The rest of us do not owe you subsidized health insurance simply because you are a low achiever.

I don't see it as matter of one's being owed or not owed something. Phrasing and construing the matter in an "owed to" context simply isn't the way I see it. You do, clearly. That's that. I understand your stance, and the "owed" syntax implies ideological rigidity; thus I think our conversation on the matter has gone as far as it can.

If I sound like my patience has expired, this is the reason. I have read over and over on this board posts by people opposing ACA because they maintain that they can not afford it. Ok, so their position is that ACA is no good because they don't get free insurance. Never mind the fact that before ACA, they could not buy insurance AT ALL! We fought hard to make insurance available to everyone, so that nobody has to die for lack of access to it, and this is the thanks we get? It is equivalent to a kid crying because he wanted a strawberry ice cream cone, and we gave him chocolate. I get tired of the whining.

View attachment 119817

This how the rest of the country sees the left.

How the left sees themselves, is that before they came along, no one could afford insurance.

Then they magically made a law that says "affordable care act" which means that care is magically affordable... because it says affordable care act in the name of the law. And they wouldn't call it that, if it didn't do that, so it must, because it says so, therefore it is.

Reminds me of Atlas Shrugged, where the president tells john that he's going to be in charge, and he can makeup whatever rules he wants to require the people to follow. John replies, that he doesn't want to dictate people's lives, he just wants everyone to be free. The president then says to him, then make a law requiring everyone to be free! This is how the left-wing thinks. Results don't matter. Intentions do.

Never mind the fact that before ACA, they could not buy insurance AT ALL

False. Before ObamaCare I had an insurance policy that was $67 a month, that covered everything I needed.

Ok, so their position is that ACA is no good because they don't get free insurance

False. Before ObamaCare I was more than happy to pay for my own health care.

We fought hard to make insurance available to everyone, so that nobody has to die for lack of access to it, and this is the thanks we get?

Just as the cartoon shows... you fought so hard to screw over the American people, and when you succeeded, now you are shocked we're not happy about being screwed over? How dumb are you people?

Let me go beat the absolute snot out of you, and I expect a thank you card in the mail!

Idiots. You jack up our costs, screw over the working people, and then really believe that somehow you should get appreciated for your efforts at harming us. What a moron you are. Even Forest Gump wouldn't be this stupid.

Andy, I read your post down to the first point that you made, which was completely false. I spent my career as a health insurance executive .To be specific, VP of underwriting and compliance. It was my job to make sure that any insurance application was denied if it was likely that they were going to pay less premium that we would pay out in claims. So, yes, if you were insurable, and 20% of the population was, they had no access to insurance. Under ACA, they are guaranteed issue.

Having determined that you whole post is bullshit half way through it, I did not bother to read the rest of it.

 

[Vandalshandle]

If you are making $19,000 per year, your problem isn't health insurance cost. You need to get off your ass and either get a second job or an education. The rest of us do not owe you subsidized health insurance simply because you are a low achiever.

f you are making $19,000 per year, your problem isn't health insurance cost. You need to get off your ass and either get a second job or an education.

I absolutely agree with you on this point.

If you are making $19,000 per year, your problem isn't health insurance cost. You need to get off your ass and either get a second job or an education. The rest of us do not owe you subsidized health insurance simply because you are a low achiever.

I don't see it as matter of one's being owed or not owed something. Phrasing and construing the matter in an "owed to" context simply isn't the way I see it. You do, clearly. That's that. I understand your stance, and the "owed" syntax implies ideological rigidity; thus I think our conversation on the matter has gone as far as it can.

If I sound like my patience has expired, this is the reason. I have read over and over on this board posts by people opposing ACA because they maintain that they can not afford it. Ok, so their position is that ACA is no good because they don't get free insurance. Never mind the fact that before ACA, they could not buy insurance AT ALL! We fought hard to make insurance available to everyone, so that nobody has to die for lack of access to it, and this is the thanks we get? It is equivalent to a kid crying because he wanted a strawberry ice cream cone, and we gave him chocolate. I get tired of the whining.

So in your mind, people who couldn't afford insurance prior to the ACA and can only do so now because we buy it for them, can now afford to pay a 7150 single ded AND a 14300 family ded.

i don't have the slightest concern about what people can afford, and what they can not. I can not afford a Ferrari. my concern is whether or not someone dies simply because he has no access to insurance because he has been denied by the insurance company. before ACA, that was common. After ACA it does not happen. That is a major step forward to joining the rest of the industrialized world.

Bullshit. The ONLY thing the ACA did was to make Libs feel better about themselves.

"After ACA it does not happen"

It didn't happen prior and we're still paying for their care.

In my career as VP of underwriting, if you came to me with a history of cancer, you were denied. If you went to the emergency room and asked for chemo, you would have been told that thee only responsibility the hospital had to you was to stabilize your acute condition. In short, no breast removal operation or chemo. There was no other option for you unless your total assets were below a certain dollar amount, and if you owned a house, you would not have qualified for Medicaid. You would then have been SOL.

 

[Vandalshandle]

If you are making $19,000 per year, your problem isn't health insurance cost. You need to get off your ass and either get a second job or an education. The rest of us do not owe you subsidized health insurance simply because you are a low achiever.

There you go! The left-wing says they are for the poor constantly.... then when they actually meet a poor person, you attack them.

Did I setup ObamaCare? No. I did not. I opposed Obama care.

But you put in place Obama Care which eliminated my health insurance plan.

So, I got subsidized care last year for $80 a month. YOU paid the rest of the $250 insurance premium.

Do you owe me subsidized health insurance? Not according to my beliefs... but you are the one controlling the law, not me. According to the law, you got to pay my insurance. Whose fault is that? Mine? No. I didn't setup this system. YOU DID.

So the person to blame for you paying my insurance.... is you! Just you and all those stupid ignorant leftards like you.

Spare me your BS crap. Before Obama care, I was easily able to afford my own health insurance. In 2006, I had a policy that was $67 a month, and it covered everything I needed.

YOU eliminated those plans, not me. YOU forced me on to subsidized care, not me. YOU are the reason YOU got to pay my insurance premium. So shut up, and like it. YOU asked for it, YOU got it, and now YOU pay for it.

I opposed Obama care from the start. You can't blame one single speck of this problem on me. Point your finger at your mirror.

"Here in leftard world, an emoji is a great substitute for a fact based discussion!"

I accept your admission of losing the argument. Have a nice day!

Well, I do acknowledge that you are a legend in your own mind....

Maybe, but you ARE projecting. You were in "Compliance" you don't know shit about where the rubber meets the road.

Grated, I know nothing about roads and rubber, but I could get an HMO approved for business in 49 states in 6 months, and I was able to draft a policy rider for each one of those states meeting all mandatory state laws.

 

[Doc1]

I absolutely agree with you on this point.

I don't see it as matter of one's being owed or not owed something. Phrasing and construing the matter in an "owed to" context simply isn't the way I see it. You do, clearly. That's that. I understand your stance, and the "owed" syntax implies ideological rigidity; thus I think our conversation on the matter has gone as far as it can.

If I sound like my patience has expired, this is the reason. I have read over and over on this board posts by people opposing ACA because they maintain that they can not afford it. Ok, so their position is that ACA is no good because they don't get free insurance. Never mind the fact that before ACA, they could not buy insurance AT ALL! We fought hard to make insurance available to everyone, so that nobody has to die for lack of access to it, and this is the thanks we get? It is equivalent to a kid crying because he wanted a strawberry ice cream cone, and we gave him chocolate. I get tired of the whining.

So in your mind, people who couldn't afford insurance prior to the ACA and can only do so now because we buy it for them, can now afford to pay a 7150 single ded AND a 14300 family ded.

i don't have the slightest concern about what people can afford, and what they can not. I can not afford a Ferrari. my concern is whether or not someone dies simply because he has no access to insurance because he has been denied by the insurance company. before ACA, that was common. After ACA it does not happen. That is a major step forward to joining the rest of the industrialized world.

Bullshit. The ONLY thing the ACA did was to make Libs feel better about themselves.

"After ACA it does not happen"

It didn't happen prior and we're still paying for their care.

In my career as VP of underwriting, if you came to me with a history of cancer, you were denied. If you went to the emergency room and asked for chemo, you would have been told that thee only responsibility the hospital had to you was to stabilize your acute condition. In short, no breast removal operation or chemo. There was no other option for you unless your total assets were below a certain dollar amount, and if you owned a house, you would not have qualified for Medicaid. You would then have been SOL.

And yet they were not turned away and they indeed got treatment. We paid for it. NOW we pay for their Premiums AND their treatment. Such a deal. THe ACA made YOU feel better, it did nothing for them.

 

[Doc1]

There you go! The left-wing says they are for the poor constantly.... then when they actually meet a poor person, you attack them.

Did I setup ObamaCare? No. I did not. I opposed Obama care.

But you put in place Obama Care which eliminated my health insurance plan.

So, I got subsidized care last year for $80 a month. YOU paid the rest of the $250 insurance premium.

Do you owe me subsidized health insurance? Not according to my beliefs... but you are the one controlling the law, not me. According to the law, you got to pay my insurance. Whose fault is that? Mine? No. I didn't setup this system. YOU DID.

So the person to blame for you paying my insurance.... is you! Just you and all those stupid ignorant leftards like you.

Spare me your BS crap. Before Obama care, I was easily able to afford my own health insurance. In 2006, I had a policy that was $67 a month, and it covered everything I needed.

YOU eliminated those plans, not me. YOU forced me on to subsidized care, not me. YOU are the reason YOU got to pay my insurance premium. So shut up, and like it. YOU asked for it, YOU got it, and now YOU pay for it.

I opposed Obama care from the start. You can't blame one single speck of this problem on me. Point your finger at your mirror.

"Here in leftard world, an emoji is a great substitute for a fact based discussion!"

I accept your admission of losing the argument. Have a nice day!

Well, I do acknowledge that you are a legend in your own mind....

Maybe, but you ARE projecting. You were in "Compliance" you don't know shit about where the rubber meets the road.

Grated, I know nothing about roads and rubber, but I could get an HMO approved for business in 49 states in 6 months, and I was able to draft a policy rider for each one of those states meeting all mandatory state laws.

HMO's are bullshit. They are better than nothing, but they are bullshit,.

 

[Vandalshandle]

If I sound like my patience has expired, this is the reason. I have read over and over on this board posts by people opposing ACA because they maintain that they can not afford it. Ok, so their position is that ACA is no good because they don't get free insurance. Never mind the fact that before ACA, they could not buy insurance AT ALL! We fought hard to make insurance available to everyone, so that nobody has to die for lack of access to it, and this is the thanks we get? It is equivalent to a kid crying because he wanted a strawberry ice cream cone, and we gave him chocolate. I get tired of the whining.

So in your mind, people who couldn't afford insurance prior to the ACA and can only do so now because we buy it for them, can now afford to pay a 7150 single ded AND a 14300 family ded.

i don't have the slightest concern about what people can afford, and what they can not. I can not afford a Ferrari. my concern is whether or not someone dies simply because he has no access to insurance because he has been denied by the insurance company. before ACA, that was common. After ACA it does not happen. That is a major step forward to joining the rest of the industrialized world.

Bullshit. The ONLY thing the ACA did was to make Libs feel better about themselves.

"After ACA it does not happen"

It didn't happen prior and we're still paying for their care.

In my career as VP of underwriting, if you came to me with a history of cancer, you were denied. If you went to the emergency room and asked for chemo, you would have been told that thee only responsibility the hospital had to you was to stabilize your acute condition. In short, no breast removal operation or chemo. There was no other option for you unless your total assets were below a certain dollar amount, and if you owned a house, you would not have qualified for Medicaid. You would then have been SOL.

And yet they were not turned away and they indeed got treatment. We paid for it. NOW we pay for their Premiums AND their treatment. Such a deal. THe ACA made YOU feel better, it did nothing for them.

Nope, doc, you did not necessarily get any treatment. In fact, one grieving parent in N. Dakota sent me a photo of their child in a casket, because I had denied coverage on the kid, who was a late enrollee on a group plan, who was born with a hole in his heart .

 

[Vandalshandle]

"Here in leftard world, an emoji is a great substitute for a fact based discussion!"

I accept your admission of losing the argument. Have a nice day!

Well, I do acknowledge that you are a legend in your own mind....

Maybe, but you ARE projecting. You were in "Compliance" you don't know shit about where the rubber meets the road.

Grated, I know nothing about roads and rubber, but I could get an HMO approved for business in 49 states in 6 months, and I was able to draft a policy rider for each one of those states meeting all mandatory state laws.

HMO's are bullshit. They are better than nothing, but they are bullshit,.

HMO's and PPO's make up about 85% of the insured population today, and are dramatically cheaper than indemnity plans because of the negotiated provider contracts.

 

[Doc1]

So in your mind, people who couldn't afford insurance prior to the ACA and can only do so now because we buy it for them, can now afford to pay a 7150 single ded AND a 14300 family ded.

i don't have the slightest concern about what people can afford, and what they can not. I can not afford a Ferrari. my concern is whether or not someone dies simply because he has no access to insurance because he has been denied by the insurance company. before ACA, that was common. After ACA it does not happen. That is a major step forward to joining the rest of the industrialized world.

Bullshit. The ONLY thing the ACA did was to make Libs feel better about themselves.

"After ACA it does not happen"

It didn't happen prior and we're still paying for their care.

In my career as VP of underwriting, if you came to me with a history of cancer, you were denied. If you went to the emergency room and asked for chemo, you would have been told that thee only responsibility the hospital had to you was to stabilize your acute condition. In short, no breast removal operation or chemo. There was no other option for you unless your total assets were below a certain dollar amount, and if you owned a house, you would not have qualified for Medicaid. You would then have been SOL.

And yet they were not turned away and they indeed got treatment. We paid for it. NOW we pay for their Premiums AND their treatment. Such a deal. THe ACA made YOU feel better, it did nothing for them.

Nope, doc, you did not necessarily get any treatment. In fact, one grieving parent in N. Dakota sent me a photo of their child in a casket, because I had denied coverage on the kid, who was a late enrollee on a group plan, who was born with a hole in his heart .

First, allow me to apologize. The thing is I agree with you that something needs to be done. In 2013 when the ACA first went into effect I was able to help people I could never help before. The problem was that I wasn't able to help the people who needed it most, not really. As to your statement, in EVERY ER in EVEEY State there is a sign telling folks they CANNOT be turned away. The ACA was NEVER the answer. MY answer is Medicare for everyone.

 

[Doc1]

"Here in leftard world, an emoji is a great substitute for a fact based discussion!"

I accept your admission of losing the argument. Have a nice day!

Well, I do acknowledge that you are a legend in your own mind....

Maybe, but you ARE projecting. You were in "Compliance" you don't know shit about where the rubber meets the road.

Grated, I know nothing about roads and rubber, but I could get an HMO approved for business in 49 states in 6 months, and I was able to draft a policy rider for each one of those states meeting all mandatory state laws.

HMO's are bullshit. They are better than nothing, but they are bullshit,.

HMO's and PPO's make up about 85% of the insured population today, and are dramatically cheaper than indemnity plans because of the negotiated provider contracts.

I am a PPO guy. I specifically like BCBS PPO's because they allow you to be in Network in whatever you state you are in that they are in, just like Medicare.

 

[Vandalshandle]

i don't have the slightest concern about what people can afford, and what they can not. I can not afford a Ferrari. my concern is whether or not someone dies simply because he has no access to insurance because he has been denied by the insurance company. before ACA, that was common. After ACA it does not happen. That is a major step forward to joining the rest of the industrialized world.

Bullshit. The ONLY thing the ACA did was to make Libs feel better about themselves.

"After ACA it does not happen"

It didn't happen prior and we're still paying for their care.

In my career as VP of underwriting, if you came to me with a history of cancer, you were denied. If you went to the emergency room and asked for chemo, you would have been told that thee only responsibility the hospital had to you was to stabilize your acute condition. In short, no breast removal operation or chemo. There was no other option for you unless your total assets were below a certain dollar amount, and if you owned a house, you would not have qualified for Medicaid. You would then have been SOL.

And yet they were not turned away and they indeed got treatment. We paid for it. NOW we pay for their Premiums AND their treatment. Such a deal. THe ACA made YOU feel better, it did nothing for them.

Nope, doc, you did not necessarily get any treatment. In fact, one grieving parent in N. Dakota sent me a photo of their child in a casket, because I had denied coverage on the kid, who was a late enrollee on a group plan, who was born with a hole in his heart .

First, allow me to apologize. The thing is I agree with you that something needs to be done. In 2013 when the ACA first went into effect I was able to help people I could never help before. The problem was that I wasn't able to help the people who needed it most, not really. As to your statement, in EVERY ER in EVEEY State there is a sign telling folks they CANNOT be turned away. The ACA was NEVER the answer. MY answer is Medicare for everyone.

I am in 100% agreement on this, but it was beyond our reach 8 years ago, because republicans would not have tolerated it. ACA, as flawed as it is, was the best we could do at the time.

As for hospital emergency room, the law only requires them to stabilize someone. It does not require them to treat the disease. They will try to deal with your cardiac arrest, but they are not going to give you a free triple bypass.

 

[Doc1]

Bullshit. The ONLY thing the ACA did was to make Libs feel better about themselves.

"After ACA it does not happen"

It didn't happen prior and we're still paying for their care.

In my career as VP of underwriting, if you came to me with a history of cancer, you were denied. If you went to the emergency room and asked for chemo, you would have been told that thee only responsibility the hospital had to you was to stabilize your acute condition. In short, no breast removal operation or chemo. There was no other option for you unless your total assets were below a certain dollar amount, and if you owned a house, you would not have qualified for Medicaid. You would then have been SOL.

And yet they were not turned away and they indeed got treatment. We paid for it. NOW we pay for their Premiums AND their treatment. Such a deal. THe ACA made YOU feel better, it did nothing for them.

Nope, doc, you did not necessarily get any treatment. In fact, one grieving parent in N. Dakota sent me a photo of their child in a casket, because I had denied coverage on the kid, who was a late enrollee on a group plan, who was born with a hole in his heart .

First, allow me to apologize. The thing is I agree with you that something needs to be done. In 2013 when the ACA first went into effect I was able to help people I could never help before. The problem was that I wasn't able to help the people who needed it most, not really. As to your statement, in EVERY ER in EVEEY State there is a sign telling folks they CANNOT be turned away. The ACA was NEVER the answer. MY answer is Medicare for everyone.

I am in 100% agreement on this.

The problem is as it always is, funding. Sometimes I hate money.

 

[Andylusion]

This is what blows my mind about left-wingers.

No matter how much evidence you provide. No matter how much proof of claim you post. No matter what I say.... he'll find a link and say:

"dur... you are wrong! You don't know your life as much as I do, because my link says so"

I am telling you, I can't afford the health insurance, that is available now. Before I could. Now I can't.

This is a fact. I know, it's my budget, my money, and my health insurance. I made $19K last year, but my insurance premiums when up from $80 to $120 a month. I can't afford that. Period. The end. Game over... you lose.

You can post all the links you want, until the end of time. I know what I applied for, I know what policies I could get, and I couldn't afford any of them. Your links, do not trump my reality.

If I could just send a link to my insurance company, and say "idiot on the web says this proves you have to charge less" then I would do that. I really would. I send them your forum post as proof they have to lower their premiums for me.

That's not how it works moron.

If you are making $19,000 per year, your problem isn't health insurance cost. You need to get off your ass and either get a second job or an education. The rest of us do not owe you subsidized health insurance simply because you are a low achiever.

f you are making $19,000 per year, your problem isn't health insurance cost. You need to get off your ass and either get a second job or an education.

I absolutely agree with you on this point.

If you are making $19,000 per year, your problem isn't health insurance cost. You need to get off your ass and either get a second job or an education. The rest of us do not owe you subsidized health insurance simply because you are a low achiever.

I don't see it as matter of one's being owed or not owed something. Phrasing and construing the matter in an "owed to" context simply isn't the way I see it. You do, clearly. That's that. I understand your stance, and the "owed" syntax implies ideological rigidity; thus I think our conversation on the matter has gone as far as it can.

If I sound like my patience has expired, this is the reason. I have read over and over on this board posts by people opposing ACA because they maintain that they can not afford it. Ok, so their position is that ACA is no good because they don't get free insurance. Never mind the fact that before ACA, they could not buy insurance AT ALL! We fought hard to make insurance available to everyone, so that nobody has to die for lack of access to it, and this is the thanks we get? It is equivalent to a kid crying because he wanted a strawberry ice cream cone, and we gave him chocolate. I get tired of the whining.

View attachment 119817

This how the rest of the country sees the left.

How the left sees themselves, is that before they came along, no one could afford insurance.

Then they magically made a law that says "affordable care act" which means that care is magically affordable... because it says affordable care act in the name of the law. And they wouldn't call it that, if it didn't do that, so it must, because it says so, therefore it is.

Reminds me of Atlas Shrugged, where the president tells john that he's going to be in charge, and he can makeup whatever rules he wants to require the people to follow. John replies, that he doesn't want to dictate people's lives, he just wants everyone to be free. The president then says to him, then make a law requiring everyone to be free! This is how the left-wing thinks. Results don't matter. Intentions do.

Never mind the fact that before ACA, they could not buy insurance AT ALL

False. Before ObamaCare I had an insurance policy that was $67 a month, that covered everything I needed.

Ok, so their position is that ACA is no good because they don't get free insurance

False. Before ObamaCare I was more than happy to pay for my own health care.

We fought hard to make insurance available to everyone, so that nobody has to die for lack of access to it, and this is the thanks we get?

Just as the cartoon shows... you fought so hard to screw over the American people, and when you succeeded, now you are shocked we're not happy about being screwed over? How dumb are you people?

Let me go beat the absolute snot out of you, and I expect a thank you card in the mail!

Idiots. You jack up our costs, screw over the working people, and then really believe that somehow you should get appreciated for your efforts at harming us. What a moron you are. Even Forest Gump wouldn't be this stupid.

Andy, I read your post down to the first point that you made, which was completely false. I spent my career as a health insurance executive .To be specific, VP of underwriting and compliance. It was my job to make sure that any insurance application was denied if it was likely that they were going to pay less premium that we would pay out in claims. So, yes, if you were insurable, and 20% of the population was, they had no access to insurance. Under ACA, they are guaranteed issue.

Having determined that you whole post is bullshit half way through it, I did not bother to read the rest of it.

Well of course. Now I'm not *trying* to be insulting... but you claim to have worked in insurance, so you should have had an understanding of how insurance works.

It is a form of risk management primarily used to hedge against the risk of a contingent, uncertain loss.

The word "contingent" means it's a chance action. Uncertain, means something there is no guarantee of happening.

Your job was to filter out people who are not in the market for "insurance", they are simply in the market to get others to pay their bills.

If you have diabetes, or already have cancer, or have some other incurable illness..... If they already have it.... that's not "insurance". That's not a "contingent, uncertain loss". That's a guaranteed loss. They are not insuring against some possible outcome. They already have the possible outcome, they just don't want to pay for it. They want you to pay for it.... "you" being the other insured people.

That's like saying I want insurance against my cable bill. Of course it is entirely certain that I'm going to get a cable bill.... but I want insurance for it! What am I trying to do, by attempting to get insurance against my cable bill, that has 100% certainty? I'm just trying to get you to pay my bill!

Or I want to get insurance on this car.... that I'm entering into a demolition derby. In this case, the damage hasn't happened yet. So you know.... there's a chance.... Right? Again, this isn't a "contingent, uncertain loss". It's pretty clear I'm going to get my car smashed up, and I know it. The reason I want insurance isn't to avoid some uncertain loss..... there's going to be a loss, I just don't want to pay for it.

So when you are preventing people with certain loss from getting insurance, that's not only exactly what I want you to do, but it's also GOOD. And MORALLY RIGHT. It is exactly because you were doing that, that in 2006, I could get a perfectly good insurance policy that charged just $67 a month.

When you say that now they are guaranteed issue.... yeah... who do you think is paying for that guaranteed issue?
We do. The premium payers. Where do you think the insurance companies get money from? The premium payers. So when you give people a guarantee issue, so that now they can live without insurance for years and decades, until they get cancer, and then get a guarantee issue insurance, and send all the bills to the insurance company..... this is why in 2006 I could get a perfectly good insurance policy for $67, and the cheapest today is $250.

Thanks for helping the lower class out. Screwing us over, and saying we should appreciate it?

In my career as VP of underwriting, if you came to me with a history of cancer, you were denied. If you went to the emergency room and asked for chemo, you would have been told that thee only responsibility the hospital had to you was to stabilize your acute condition. In short, no breast removal operation or chemo. There was no other option for you unless your total assets were below a certain dollar amount, and if you owned a house, you would not have qualified for Medicaid. You would then have been SOL.

In 2001, I worked at a car dealer, where the janitor got cancer. He had refused company insurance, and had no insurance of his own. The dude was divorced, had no assets, no car, nothing. Rode the bus to work.

When he got cancer, he wanted to the hospital, and they started him on Chemo.

Please explain.

Nope, doc, you did not necessarily get any treatment. In fact, one grieving parent in N. Dakota sent me a photo of their child in a casket, because I had denied coverage on the kid, who was a late enrollee on a group plan, who was born with a hole in his heart .

Why were they a late enrollee on a group plan?
Why didn't they have insurance before this?

And how do you know for a fact the child would not have died anyway?

Do you even know for a fact that they were not given treatment? I've read where people in that exact situation, did get treatment, even without insurance.

I get the feeling you are not telling us the entire story. Or you don't know the entire story, and are just repeating what a grieving mother said, when she was lashing due to her pain.

Regardless, back to the definition of insurance.

"It is a form of risk management primarily used to hedge against the risk of a contingent, uncertain loss."

You said she had not enrolled, and had a child with a heart defect. Is that a contingent uncertain loss? Or is that asking for insurance against a cable bill?

 

[usmbguest5318]

an understanding of how insurance works.

It is a form of risk management primarily used to hedge against the risk of a contingent, uncertain loss.

The word "contingent" means it's a chance action. Uncertain, means something there is no guarantee of happening.

Regardless, back to the definition of insurance.

"It is a form of risk management primarily used to hedge against the risk of a contingent, uncertain loss."

For property and casualty, that definition applies. It's quite possible that one won't ever make a claim against one's property insurance policy. For life and health, it does not.

• It is 100% certain that the insured's life will end and the insurer will have to pay, barring the death's being of a sort that's not covered.
• It is almost as certain that the insured will suffer a health ailment.

For life and health insurance, the only thing that's uncertain is when a qualifying claim event will occur.

When you say that now they are guaranteed issue.... yeah... who do you think is paying for that guaranteed issue?
We do. The premium payers. Where do you think the insurance companies get money from?

The great majority of it comes from earnings on invested capital. The capital is the money insured parties pay as premiums, but an insurance company cannot thrive on premiums alone. Indeed, but for the "float" associated with the time between receiving premiums and paying a claim, insurers would at best break even.

 

[Vandalshandle]

Andy, if it makes yopu feel any better, don't call it "insurance". What they Left has been trying to do is to give everyone access to health care, just like everyone has access to public roads, that are paid for by the people, through the government. Every other industrialized nation on earth does this, except us. ACA was the only thing we could get past the republicans at the time. In the end, only expanding medicare to cover all citizens will work.