Trump, the "Draft Dodger"

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

The dude who attacked McCain for being a "loser" because he spent time in HELL in a Vietnamese POW camp, the dude who attacked Walz for.... serving 24 years in the National Guard.... literally LIED and got out of military service by bribing someone/people.

You know this how? Were you there?

 

[Winco]

Is that your professional diagnosis, Doctor?

Do you believe that trump really had bone spurs?

You are defending the position pretty hard.

 

[Nuthin' Fancy]

Bone spurs are confirmed by x-rays, dumbass!

Yes, they are.
Where are Trump's x-rays?

Trump made up injury to dodge Vietnam service, his former ...​

Military Times
https://www.militarytimes.com › news › 2019/02/27 › t...
Feb 27, 2019 — President Donald Trump acknowledged to advisors that he made up a fake injury to avoid military service, because “I wasn't going to Vietnam,” his former lawyer ...

 

[Captain Caveman]

I'm posting this for any of our correspondents who may be too young to know what actually went on w/r/t the military draft during the 60's.

First, you need to picture Woodstock. You know, those hundreds of thousands of revelers, celebrating their music, their culture, MJ, sexual freedom, and all that. Now look closer at just the males. They were virtually all draft dodgers. Almost every single one. I personally didn't go to Woodstock because I was in the Army, stationed in RVN. (I have no regrets on that front).

Now picture the anti-war demonstrations of the same era. Those demonstrations included a few "John Kerry types" who had served for a few years, then decided to hitch their boat to the anti-war movement, mainly to access the drugs and pussy that was so abundant therein. But all the rest of them were draft dodgers - college students who were availing themselves of the "2S" deferment (you couldn't be drafted as long as you were a college student in good standing).

The fact is that just about everyone whose family was "middle class" was able to avoid of the Armed Forces one way or another, except for the occasional outlier who actually WANTED to serve, and those kids came mainly from the South. Some managed to get into the National Guard or Reserves where there was very little chance of being required to go to Vietnam. There was a period when even though you went to college, you were still subject to the draft when you graduated (before the Draft Lottery), and most of those young men figured out a way to go in as officers, thus minimizing the chances that they would ever be shot at.

Some of "us" wonder why, when so many Americans of the Boomer generation were drafted or enlisted to avoid the draft, so few politicians seem to have served. And this is why: if their parents were reasonably well off, military service could be avoided one way or another - with a physical issue, joining a cushy reserve unit, or simply delaying draft eligibility until it was very unlikely that you would be drafted.

So now we come to Donald "Bone Spurs" Trump, who avoided the draft because of a physical defect. If he had not avoided the draft because of bone spurs, it would have been something else. People in his economic stratum DID NOT SERVE unless they chose to serve. If you want to think of him as a "draft dodger," go right ahead and do it, but remember that dodging the draft at that time was something that everyone at his economic level did. One of the reasons why so many working-class men resented the draft at the time was that there were so many deferments that anyone with means could simply avoid it, and that ain't fair. That is why when the subject comes up today, "we" all say something to the effect that if there is ever a draft again, there must be NO DEFERMENTS.

In a television interview yesterday, JDV was asked to justify their criticism of Governor Walz, given Donald Trump's record of avoiding the draft. What he came up with was that Trump never lied about his draft-related choices, and Walz has lied about several important particulars of his military service.

Vance could have said, "Essentially nobody in Trump's peer group served during Vietnam unless they wanted to. There was nothing shameful or exceptional about how Trump and his family dealt with it."

But one must assume that the audience is stupid and ill-informed, so you must speak in simple generalities.

Here's a list of some that didn't join -

Bruce Springsteen
Muhammad Ali
Ted Nugent
Bill Clinton
Donald Trump
Rush Limbaugh
Albert Einstein
John Wayne
Jimi Hendrix
Jim Morrison
George W. Bush
Joe Biden
Chevy Chase
John Lithgow
Arnold Schwarzenegger

If you want anymore, I can do some research.

 

[Captain Caveman]

Do you believe that trump really had bone spurs?

You are defending the position pretty hard.

Trump like all the others came up with excuses.

Albert Einstein's was he didn't have time so he slipped across into Switzerland. He didn't want to be drafted into Germany's army.

Joe Biden claimed he was ineligible due to suffering from asthma as a teenager, yet he later wrote he was a fantastic athlete in his younger days.

Would you like to know what others used as excuses?

 

[Mushroom]

If he had not avoided the draft because of bone spurs, it would have been something else.

You mean like a star football player with asthma?

 

[Mushroom]

Arnold Schwarzenegger

That is actually very wrong.

First off, he did serve. As an Austrian citizen, he served his mandatory one year in the Austrian Army in 1965.

 

[Captain Caveman]

That is actually very wrong.

First off, he did serve. As an Austrian citizen, he served his mandatory one year in the Austrian Army in 1965.

He went AWOL from the Austrian army base

 

[Mushroom]

He went AWOL from the Austrian army base

Yes, to attend a competition. And then returned and did a week of confinement as punishment.

The point is what, exactly?

 

[Captain Caveman]

Yes, to attend a competition. And then returned and did a week of confinement as punishment.

The point is what, exactly?

He dodged the draft, he's on the draft dodging list. Stop crying.

 

[Mushroom]

He dodged the draft, he's on the draft dodging list. Stop crying.

How in the hell did he "dodge the draft"? He was actually drafted and served a year of service.

If you think correcting your mistaken claims is "crying", then you need to grow the hell up.

But please, explain to us how somebody that served a year of conscripted service was a "draft dodger".

The fact is, most of your "list" is a complete and utter joke. I mean, come on. Albert Einstein? Exactly which draft did he avoid?

 

[Captain Caveman]

How in the hell did he "dodge the draft"? He was actually drafted and served a year of service.

If you think correcting your mistaken claims is "crying", then you need to grow the hell up.

But please, explain to us how somebody that served a year of conscripted service was a "draft dodger".

The fact is, most of your "list" is a complete and utter joke. I mean, come on. Albert Einstein? Exactly which draft did he avoid?

Yes he served one year then went AWOL, so that put him on the draft dodging list. If he had fully served, he wouldn't have dodged any of it. I didn't compile the list so you're simply crying at the messenger.

Just like all those that avoided the Vietnam draft by taking off to Canada, Einstein didn't want to go into the German army so he took off to Switzerland. He emigrated on purpose to avoid Germany's draft. Again he's on the list that I did not compile.

Are people thinking it's dreadful to dodge the draft? Fools.

 

[Auld Phart]

Yes he served one year then went AWOL, so that put him on the draft dodging list. If he had fully served, he wouldn't have dodged any of it. I didn't compile the list so you're simply crying at the messenger.

Just like all those that avoided the Vietnam draft by taking off to Canada, Einstein didn't want to go into the German army so he took off to Switzerland. He emigrated on purpose to avoid Germany's draft. Again he's on the list that I did not compile.

Are people thinking it's dreadful to dodge the draft? Fools.

Yes he served one year then went AWOL,

so that put him on the draft dodging list.

2 different animals

 

[Captain Caveman]

Mushroom Are you American because it was even in the Washington Post?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/politics/2002/12/02/the-real-einstein-relatively-speaking/126079bb-4d08-4033-b7d2-deefa81f88a8/

Outside of the US, we know Einstein chased girls, had affairs, the FBI was spying on him, and he dodged the German draft by running off to Switzerland. Why do you feel the need to protect what he did? I, you, or anyone else can't change the facts.

 

[Mushroom]

@Mushroom Are you American because it was even in the Washington Post?

Yes. I am also a retired veteran that first joined back in 1983.

Which allows me to say authoritatively as an expert on the subject that you are full of crap. A draft dodger would have deserted, not simply gone AWOL. They are two completely different things. But you are yet another political animal that apparently does not give a damn about facts, you are too concerned with pushing an agenda of some kind.

I have been AWOL hundreds of times throughout my career. Literally arriving 5 minutes late for duty because of bad traffic is AWOL. You do not have a clue what you are talking about.

And come on now, Einstein dodged the German Draft by going to Switzerland in 1895? Uh, are you aware that he did that when he was 15 years old? And Germany did not conscripting until 1914, that's 19 years after he moved to Switzerland. So what, in addition to knowing theoretical physics could he also predict the future, and knew that in just under two decades he might be conscripted? And did this all at the age of 15?

 

[Captain Caveman]

Yes. I am also a retired veteran that first joined back in 1983.

Which allows me to say authoritatively as an expert on the subject that you are full of crap. A draft dodger would have deserted, not simply gone AWOL. They are two completely different things. But you are yet another political animal that apparently does not give a damn about facts, you are too concerned with pushing an agenda of some kind.

I have been AWOL hundreds of times throughout my career. Literally arriving 5 minutes late for duty because of bad traffic is AWOL. You do not have a clue what you are talking about.

And come on now, Einstein dodged the German Draft by going to Switzerland in 1895? Uh, are you aware that he did that when he was 15 years old? And Germany did not conscripting until 1914, that's 19 years after he moved to Switzerland. So what, in addition to knowing theoretical physics could he also predict the future, and knew that in just under two decades he might be conscripted? And did this all at the age of 15?

You obviously detest facts. Are you a Democrat?

If you AWOL'ed you're known as a deserter.

 

[Auld Phart]

You obviously detest facts. Are you a Democrat?

If you AWOL'ed you're known as a deserter.

f you AWOL'ed you're known as a deserter.

not until you've been gone 30 days.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

You obviously detest facts. Are you a Democrat?

If you AWOL'ed you're known as a deserter.

No, you aren't retard they are two different things.

 

[Captain Caveman]

No, you aren't retard they are two different things.

Are you Mushroom's lackey?

 

[Mushroom]

You obviously detest facts. Are you a Democrat?

If you AWOL'ed you're known as a deserter.

Boy, you really do not know what in the hell you are talking about, do you?

Here we go Braniac, here are the literal definitions as you obviously do not know what they are.

886. ARTICLE 86. Absence without Leave​

Any member of the armed forces who, without authority–

(1) fails to go to his appointed place of duty at the time prescribed; (2) goes from that place; or (3) absents himself or remains absent from his unit, organization, or place of duty at which he is required to be at the time prescribed;

shall be punished as a court-martial may direct.

There, that is the actual UCMJ definition of AWOL. Or as we called in the Marines, UA (Unauthorized Absence).

Now here is the definition of Desertion:

885. ARTICLE 85. Desertion​

(a) Any member of the armed forces who–

(1) without authority goes or remains absent from his unit, organization, or place of duty with intent to remain away therefrom permanently; (2) quits his unit, organization, or place of duty with intent to avoid hazardous duty or to shirk important service; or (3) without being regularly separated from one of the armed forces enlists or accepts an appointment in the same or another on of the armed forces without fully disclosing the fact that he has not been regularly separated, or enters any foreign armed service except when authorized by the United States; is guilty of desertion.

(b) Any commissioned officer of the armed forces who, after tender of his resignation and before notice of its acceptance, quits his post or proper duties without leave and with intent to remain away therefrom permanently is guilty of desertion. (c) Any person found guilty of desertion or attempt to desert shall be punished, if the offense is committed in time of war, by death or such other punishment as a court-martial may direct, but if the desertion or attempt to desert occurs at any other time, by such punishment, other than death, as a court-martial may direct.

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UCMJ Article Home UCMJ - Uniform Code of Military Justice - Military Law

ucmj.us

AWOL is very much not the same as desertion, they are barely even close. And I notice that you resort to attacks instead of actually admitting you were wrong, or actually trying to debate facts. But guess what, bubba? Screaming you are right does not make you right. Especially when you do not know what you are talking about and are making stuff up as you go along.

But if they are the same thing, then why does the UCMJ have to very different charges and definitions for them?