Trump tearing apart national parks

[RealDave]

President Trump returned the land obama stole, back to the state of Utah. That’s a huge win for every American.

Obama stole? Do you want to clarify your position?

Obama decided their land should be under the control of the federal government.
President Trump stepped in and said fuck that! That land belongs to the people of Utah.

Clear enough?

It was federal land when Obama created the monument. The land trimmed by the dumbass Trump are still federal land.

You are a fucking idiot.

 

[RealDave]

Does the State of Utah have finances to support the land in question? The answer is NO.

I don't see how that can reliably be assumed to be true, nor why it is even relevant. This is land which rightfully ought to belong to the state of Utah, or to individual residents of Utah. Does the federal government have the power to seize property, either from states or individuals, on the basis that the owner of that property is alleged not to have the finances to support it? Where is this power enumerated, in the Constitution?

If Utah doesn't have the finances to support all of the land that it rightfully owns, then the correct remedy is for it to sell that land. Let people build houses, and stores, and other facilities; let people live on that land, and work on that land. Let the land be used in the way that maximizes its value to humanity.

There is no good reason,and no legitimate reason, for the federal government to be hoarding for itself, such large amounts of valuable property, and preventing that property from being put to good use; and certainly no excuse for the federal government to not even offer just compensation to those from whom this property was stolen.

This should have been the end of the thread. Knowing progressives however.....

The only value that the vast majority of government land has is social.

The one thing that the federal government is not responsible for is social.

It strikes Me as amazing that progressives continue to make the claims that they are for the people, i.e., they are holding the land in trust for the people, yet they do not trust the people to manage it.

Managing that intellectual disconnect must be quite a feat.

The irony is................... ironic.

I certainly don't trust a Republican to care for these lands. They will log it, drill it, rip it up for mining - anything for their corporate buddies. Like this is the only placer in this country to do these things.

 

[Rustic]

Does the State of Utah have finances to support the land in question? The answer is NO.

I don't see how that can reliably be assumed to be true, nor why it is even relevant. This is land which rightfully ought to belong to the state of Utah, or to individual residents of Utah. Does the federal government have the power to seize property, either from states or individuals, on the basis that the owner of that property is alleged not to have the finances to support it? Where is this power enumerated, in the Constitution?

If Utah doesn't have the finances to support all of the land that it rightfully owns, then the correct remedy is for it to sell that land. Let people build houses, and stores, and other facilities; let people live on that land, and work on that land. Let the land be used in the way that maximizes its value to humanity.

There is no good reason,and no legitimate reason, for the federal government to be hoarding for itself, such large amounts of valuable property, and preventing that property from being put to good use; and certainly no excuse for the federal government to not even offer just compensation to those from whom this property was stolen.

This should have been the end of the thread. Knowing progressives however.....

The only value that the vast majority of government land has is social.

The one thing that the federal government is not responsible for is social.

It strikes Me as amazing that progressives continue to make the claims that they are for the people, i.e., they are holding the land in trust for the people, yet they do not trust the people to manage it.

Managing that intellectual disconnect must be quite a feat.

The irony is................... ironic.

I certainly don't trust a Republican to care for these lands. They will log it, drill it, rip it up for mining - anything for their corporate buddies. Like this is the only placer in this country to do these things.

You really don’t know your ass from a hole in the ground... do you?
The federal government is all about mismanagement and waste and fraud

 

[RealDave]

I don't see how that can reliably be assumed to be true, nor why it is even relevant. This is land which rightfully ought to belong to the state of Utah, or to individual residents of Utah. Does the federal government have the power to seize property, either from states or individuals, on the basis that the owner of that property is alleged not to have the finances to support it? Where is this power enumerated, in the Constitution?

If Utah doesn't have the finances to support all of the land that it rightfully owns, then the correct remedy is for it to sell that land. Let people build houses, and stores, and other facilities; let people live on that land, and work on that land. Let the land be used in the way that maximizes its value to humanity.

There is no good reason,and no legitimate reason, for the federal government to be hoarding for itself, such large amounts of valuable property, and preventing that property from being put to good use; and certainly no excuse for the federal government to not even offer just compensation to those from whom this property was stolen.

This should have been the end of the thread. Knowing progressives however.....

The only value that the vast majority of government land has is social.

The one thing that the federal government is not responsible for is social.

It strikes Me as amazing that progressives continue to make the claims that they are for the people, i.e., they are holding the land in trust for the people, yet they do not trust the people to manage it.

Managing that intellectual disconnect must be quite a feat.

The irony is................... ironic.

I certainly don't trust a Republican to care for these lands. They will log it, drill it, rip it up for mining - anything for their corporate buddies. Like this is the only placer in this country to do these things.

You really don’t know your ass from a hole in the ground... do you?
The federal government is all about mismanagement and waste and fraud

We will see that fraud when Trump starts leasing out the federal lands to mining after he slashes mining laws to protect our environment & miners.

 

[Bob Blaylock]

The guy wants everything to be ran and controlled by pure greed. That is what is at heart of these assholes.

I think it's funny when a LIbEral speaks of “greed”. They usually use that word in reference to the idea that one ought to be allowed to keep what rightfully belongs to one. Those on the left wrong want to take other people's property, to be used for purposes other than what the rightful owner of that property desires to be done with it; this is the true definition of greed. No matter how noble one's claimed motives may be, the desire to take and use that to which one is not rightfully entitled, is exactly what the word “greed” means.

 

[Bob Blaylock]

The federal government claims ownership of nearly 64% of the land in Utah. In a contiguous group of eleven western states, the federal government claims ownership of nearly half of the land in those states. There is no good reason why the federal government should be allowed to claim so much of the land that ought to belong to the state or to the people in those states.

The Massive (and Empty) Federal Lands of the American West
Federal land ownership by state - Ballotpedia

Give it to the States & they will sell it off.

Yes, they probably will. That is exactly what ought to happen. There is no valid reason for any level of government to be uselessly hoarding such huge amounts of valuable resources, that could and should be used to improve the prosperity and quality of life of those that government is supposed to be serving. Let people buy this land. Let houses and farms and factories and stores and other valuable structure be built thereon. Let this land be used to produce value, wealth, and prosperity.

 

[Bob Blaylock]

President Trump returned the land obama stole, back to the state of Utah. That’s a huge win for every American.

It was always federal land you stupid s•••.

That land was there long before the United States existed. It was there when Mormons settled in the area, long before this area became part of the United States. There was never any valid reason for the federal government to claim ownership of all this land.

 

[Rustic]

This should have been the end of the thread. Knowing progressives however.....

The only value that the vast majority of government land has is social.

The one thing that the federal government is not responsible for is social.

It strikes Me as amazing that progressives continue to make the claims that they are for the people, i.e., they are holding the land in trust for the people, yet they do not trust the people to manage it.

Managing that intellectual disconnect must be quite a feat.

The irony is................... ironic.

I certainly don't trust a Republican to care for these lands. They will log it, drill it, rip it up for mining - anything for their corporate buddies. Like this is the only placer in this country to do these things.

You really don’t know your ass from a hole in the ground... do you?
The federal government is all about mismanagement and waste and fraud

We will see that fraud when Trump starts leasing out the federal lands to mining after he slashes mining laws to protect our environment & miners.

Environmentalist have no credibility on ay issue, All they want to do is control other people

 

[dannyboys]

No surprise here, that Trump is selling off national park lands. I predicted he would.

Why the fuck should anyone care about the opinion of a Brit living in Britain?
Go back to your part time job picking up garbage in the High street.

 

[longknife]

One of my favorite jobs was driving a tour bus and giving guided tours while doing so. I conducted a lot of research so I could give out the right information.

My favorite tour was from Las Vegas to the South Rim of the Grand Canyon. At the time, early 2000s, the Park Service had just stopped trying to fight forest fires in the park that did not threaten important structures. They had realized the cleansing effects for both plants and animals.

They had also stopped paying hunters to kill predators. They had learned that predators kept animals in check to stop over grazing, over population, and following die offs.

The problem with most eco- and environmentalists is that they do not or cannot see the big picture.

 

[OnePercenter]

The federal government claims ownership of nearly 64% of the land in Utah. In a contiguous group of eleven western states, the federal government claims ownership of nearly half of the land in those states. There is no good reason why the federal government should be allowed to claim so much of the land that ought to belong to the state or to the people in those states.

The Massive (and Empty) Federal Lands of the American West
Federal land ownership by state - Ballotpedia

Give it to the States & they will sell it off.

States don't have the financial resources to maintain the land.

 

[EverCurious]

The federal government claims ownership of nearly 64% of the land in Utah. In a contiguous group of eleven western states, the federal government claims ownership of nearly half of the land in those states. There is no good reason why the federal government should be allowed to claim so much of the land that ought to belong to the state or to the people in those states.

The Massive (and Empty) Federal Lands of the American West
Federal land ownership by state - Ballotpedia

Give it to the States & they will sell it off.

States don't have the financial resources to maintain the land.

What you really mean is that states don't have the financial resources to POLICE the land...

 

[Bob Blaylock]

States don't have the financial resources to maintain the land.

If this land were being put to good use, then it would be creating value, rather than consuming it.

Any level of government taking a loss on the cost of “maintaining” this land is not being a good steward of the land itself, nor of the taxpayer funds and resources that are being wasted to this purpose.

 

[rightwinger]

I seriously doubt Trump has ever visited a National Park

 

[Markle]

Link. Without a link, your claim stands out as an obvious lie and you as an obvious liar, or as a very misinformed fool. Your dopey conspiracy scheme does not even make sense. Under BLM status commercial interest, even the Chinese, would have a chance of obtaining coal from the federal lands. Changing the status to National Monument status took any opportunity to exploit and obtain coal from the lands off the table.
You need to think out your lie a little bit.

As you know, petulant former President Barack Hussein Obama prevented the use of Federal land for fracking, coal mining was done by former President Bill Clinton.

President Clinton, nor the Chinese wanted the coal in the Staircase-Escalante monument to be mined at all. It would have been in competition with the same quality coal controlled by the Chinese in the Pacific Rim. This was payback to the Chinese for what they did to assist the Clinton Administration.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Link. Without a link, your claim stands out as an obvious lie and you as an obvious liar, or as a very misinformed fool. Your dopey conspiracy scheme does not even make sense. Under BLM status commercial interest, even the Chinese, would have a chance of obtaining coal from the federal lands. Changing the status to National Monument status took any opportunity to exploit and obtain coal from the lands off the table.
You need to think out your lie a little bit.

As you know, petulant former President Barack Hussein Obama prevented the use of Federal land for fracking, coal mining was done by former President Bill Clinton.

President Clinton, nor the Chinese wanted the coal in the Staircase-Escalante monument to be mined at all. It would have been in competition with the same quality coal controlled by the Chinese in the Pacific Rim. This was payback to the Chinese for what they did to assist the Clinton Administration.

President Clinton, nor the Chinese wanted the coal in the Staircase-Escalante monument to be mined at all. It would have been in competition with the same quality coal controlled by the Chinese

I believe Clinton was paying off some Indonesians, Lippo Group, not Chinese.
Otherwise, spot on!

 

[Markle]

Why would you be against our natural resources a monument?

It cannot be mined. Plus, Utah never wanted President Clinton to convert Staircase-Escalante into a monument. They wanted to use the property to bring jobs and economic growth.

 

[Markle]

Link. Without a link, your claim stands out as an obvious lie and you as an obvious liar, or as a very misinformed fool. Your dopey conspiracy scheme does not even make sense. Under BLM status commercial interest, even the Chinese, would have a chance of obtaining coal from the federal lands. Changing the status to National Monument status took any opportunity to exploit and obtain coal from the lands off the table.
You need to think out your lie a little bit.

Nonsense, this was in the news and common knowledge at the time. It is not my fault you refused to read anything truthful about the Clintons.

The Utah Coal Lockup: A trillion dollar Lippo payoff?

By: Sarah Foster

When the President signed the Executive Order designating 1.7 million acres of land in southwest Utah as the Grand Staircase-Escalante National Monument, his action placed the area off limits to mineral extraction and
development.

The New York Times reported that the monument encloses the largest coal
field in the nation, the Kaiparowitz Plateau, which contains at least 7
billion tons of coal worth over $1 TRILLION.

Kentucky-based company Andalux Resources, which holds leases on 3,400 acres in the area, was planning to open a huge operation (underground, not strip mining) that would have generated 1,000 jobs, $1 million in annual revenue for Kane County, and at least $10 million a year in state and federal taxes, according to the New York Times. Folks living in the area wore black arm bands the day of the signing - but Clinton didn't see them. He chose to make his announcement in a neighboring state. WHY?

Why did he do it? Why lock up $1 trillion worth of coal?

An obvious explanation is he was hoping to secure the environmentalist vote. Though that was no doubt part of his reasoning, he had surely achieved such an objective earlier this summer when he declared the huge area outside Yellowstone National Park a World Heritage Area. Let'' look further.

In the weeks prior to the past election, revelations surfaced almost daily regarding donations from foreign sources to the Democratic Party and Clinton's past campaigns. At the center of the controversy was another set of people to whom Clinton owes a few favors: the Lippo Group, a powerful $5 billion Indonesian conglomerate, founded and owned by the Riady family who, it turned out, had raised and funneled millions of dollars into campaign coffers.

[...]

The Utah Coal Lockup: A trillion dollar Lippo payoff?

 

[Markle]

The White House is a national park. Is Trump going to sell that too?

He could build a condominium there holding the top five or ten floors for the Whitehouse.

 

[harmonica]

TEAR away---!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ANYTHING to piss the lefties/libbies/etc off