Trump Says The Economy Is an A+++++, 3% of Americans Agree

[Delldude]

What say you? How is the economy doing?

 

[citygator]

The top 10% of consumers now account for 50% of the spending. If you are in that group your are doing fine. I am.

BUT… the average consumer continues to struggle and is not benefitting from this economy.

The economy is “on fire” for the wealthy and “in flames” for the average American.

Rising costs of basic necessities could widen a gap between the well-off and everyone else

The government's December price report showed the cost of food rising while inflation overall held steady. That could worsen the "K-shaped" economy.

www.nbcnews.com

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/top-10-earners-drive-nearly-191500198.html

 

[Delldude]

The economy is “on fire” for the wealthy and “in flames” for the average American.

That's odd, everywhere I go I see consumer goods have come down quite a bit.

 

[citygator]

That's odd, everywhere I go I see consumer goods have come down quite a bit.

Not according to Trump’s reporting.

 

[Delldude]

Not according to Trump’s reporting.

I don't shop where Trump does.

 

[Correll]

The top 10% of consumers now account for 50% of the spending. If you are in that group your are doing fine. I am.

BUT… the average consumer continues to struggle and is not benefitting from this economy.

The economy is “on fire” for the wealthy and “in flames” for the average American.

Rising costs of basic necessities could widen a gap between the well-off and everyone else

The government's December price report showed the cost of food rising while inflation overall held steady. That could worsen the "K-shaped" economy.

www.nbcnews.com

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/top-10-earners-drive-nearly-191500198.html

What you did there, was the standard "yeah, but" argument.

BUT, you left out the "yeah" part.


The prediction from the naysayers was RECESSION. The more moderates where predicting weak growth.

THe actual result was STRONG GROWTH.

We need to accept and deal with that. FIRST OF ALL.

Then we can dig into the details to understand the full story.

To ignore the success and immediate move on to next line of attack,

is not a serious position.


It is the position of a partisan hack.

 

[citygator]

What you did there, was the standard "yeah, but" argument.

BUT, you left out the "yeah" part.


The prediction from the naysayers was RECESSION. The more moderates where predicting weak growth.

THe actual result was STRONG GROWTH.

We need to accept and deal with that. FIRST OF ALL.

Then we can dig into the details to understand the full story.

To ignore the success and immediate move on to next line of attac

is not a serious position.


It is the position of a partisan hack.

I've never made economic predictions as it is impossible. All we can do is report where we are and what the trends show. It continues to show slow growth that is not helping the working class and a weak employment outlook. You dont see me running around pretending we are in recession like you morons do all the time based on who is president. I follow the facts and data.

• Total real growth rate in consumer spending is 2.3% for the full year of 2025. Low but positive.
• Monthly job creation averaged just 49,000 in 2025, a 70% drop from the 2024 monthly average of 168,000.
• Inflation continues to be near 3%, gasoline has a low impact and is virtually flat (within 30 cents). Apartment building started under Biden is starting to take pressure off housing a bit - still constrained. But zero movement to make America more affordable.
• Working class spending power is at it's lowest point ever as the economy has moved more and more into the hands of the few where 10% of all consumers own over 70% of everything and control half the consumer spending while the bottom 50% own a whopping 2.5% of all US wealth.
• Serious Delinquencies: Credit card balances that are "seriously delinquent" (90+ days past due) reached 12.4% in Q4 2025—the highest rate in over 14 years.
• Bankruptcies: Consumer bankruptcy filings rose to their highest level in five years as pandemic-era savings were finally exhausted.
• Manufacturing still in decline and losing manufacturing jobs.
• Trade is still upended.

 

[Correll]

I've never made economic predictions as it is impossible.

That's dumb. People make economic predictions all the time. That YOU personally didn't is irrelevant.

It is clearly DIFFICULT. But to deny reality is silly. And dishonest.

All we can do is report where we are and what the trends show. It continues to show slow growth that is not helping the working class and a weak employment outlook. You dont see me running around pretending we are in recession like you morons do all the time based on who is president.

4.4% is not weak growth. It is at LEAST, a spike. It could be the beginning of a boom.

I follow the facts and data.

• Total real growth rate in consumer spending is 2.3% for the full year of 2025. Low but positive.
• Monthly job creation averaged just 49,000 in 2025, a 70% drop from the 2024 monthly average of 168,000.
• Inflation continues to be near 3%, gasoline has a low impact and is virtually flat (within 30 cents). Apartment building started under Biden is starting to take pressure off housing a bit - still constrained. But zero movement to make America more affordable.

If wages are rising faster than inflation, then that is movement to make America more affordable.

Also, deporting millions of illegals, is going to take some pressure off housing too.

• Working class spending power is at it's lowest point ever as the economy has moved more and more into the hands of the few where 10% of all consumers own over 70% of everything and control half the consumer spending while the bottom 50% own a whopping 2.5% of all US wealth.

You cite that in this context like it has something to do with Trump, when clearly this is hte result of generations long trends.

And you are the one here, arguing FOR THE STATUS QUO, while maga wants to change it.

• Serious Delinquencies: Credit card balances that are "seriously delinquent" (90+ days past due) reached 12.4% in Q4 2025—the highest rate in over 14 years.

You support his move on capping credit card rates?

• Bankruptcies: Consumer bankruptcy filings rose to their highest level in five years as pandemic-era savings were finally exhausted.
• Manufacturing still in decline and losing manufacturing jobs.
• Trade is still upended.

NO mention of the gdp growth, or the stock market. YOu are not being serious.

 

[Mac1958]

I've never made economic predictions as it is impossible.

The only people who regularly make macroeconomic predictions are either selling something or trying to sound more intelligent than they are.

Even economists' forecasts come with a pile of disclaimers.

 

[citygator]

That's dumb. People make economic predictions all the time. That YOU personally didn't is irrelevant.

It is clearly DIFFICULT. But to deny reality is silly. And dishonest.

It's impossible to predict but you can guess based on indicators sure. I dont pretend to know where the economy is going but i can for sure see troubling signs. Right wing nuts forecasted recession every week under Biden, including many claiming we were already in one.

4.4% is not weak growth. It is at LEAST, a spike. It could be the beginning of a boom.

That is not the annual growth. Its one quarter buoyed by weak imports and poor data collection admitted by the administration. Annually spending is up 2.3%. It was a low growth year.

If wages are rising faster than inflation, then that is movement to make America more affordable.

Also, deporting millions of illegals, is going to take some pressure off housing too.

No. America is not more affordable under Trump. But I think the GOP should run on that. It should sell very well. lol

You cite that in this context like it has something to do with Trump, when clearly this is hte result of generations long trends.

And you are the one here, arguing FOR THE STATUS QUO, while maga wants to change it.

Maga is moving more wealth and spending power into even fewer hands and stripping support for affordability from the middle class. Your lies notwithstanding.

You support his move on capping credit card rates?

Deflection. That is a sign of economic stress you have no answer for. Regardless of your deflection there is not a prayer of that happening but he said he would do it by next week. We will see.

NO mention of the gdp growth, or the stock market. You are not being serious.

Those are not good indicators as to how voters feel financially - obviously some correlation exists but most people are not large stock holders.

 

[SweetTea]

Trump described the Economy to Politico as A+++++ meanwhile recent polls show 3% of people think the economy is great and Politico's own poll paints a grim picture of the economy from Americans.

Trump has convinced some people up is down, and down is up, but I suspect even he can't convince broke ass Americans they are suddenly doing great because he says so in front of the construction of a gaudy ball room.

What say you? How is the economy doing?

Trump's "A+++++" review of economy clashes with Americans' perceptions

Many Americans are uneasy about their personal financial situation, despite Trump's upbeat self-appraisal.

www.newsweek.com

President Donald Trump on Tuesday credited himself with overcoming the economic "disaster" left by his predecessor and gave his economy an “A+++++” rating, but the experiences of most Americans paint a far gloomier picture of financial conditions in 2025.

Economy

How would you rate economic conditions in this country today -- as excellent, good, only fair, or poor? Right now, do you think that economic conditions in the country as a whole are getting better or getting worse?

news.gallup.com

https://www.politico.com/news/2025/12/10/poll-affordability-cost-of-living-00678076

Where is that inflation from the tariffs? Talk about being sold a fake bill of goods. You guys are no more than useful idiots.

 

[Correll]

It's impossible to predict but you can guess based on indicators sure. I dont pretend to know where the economy is going but i can for sure see troubling signs. Right wing nuts forecasted recession every week under Biden, including many claiming we were already in one.

Pointing to partisan hacks as a reason to dismiss the idea of planning ahead, is... insane.

That is not the annual growth. Its one quarter buoyed by weak imports and poor data collection admitted by the administration. Annually spending is up 2.3%. It was a low growth year.

I'm hearing predictions for hte next quarter, of FIVE percent.

Sounds crazy. HOw high would it have to be for you to admit it was good?

Would you do it if it is 4? What about 5? If it is SEVEN would you admit it was good?

No. America is not more affordable under Trump. But I think the GOP should run on that. It should sell very well. lol

Does increases in wages immediately change things, or does it take time?

Maga is moving more wealth and spending power into even fewer hands and stripping support for affordability from the middle class. Your lies notwithstanding.

Maga is a new thing, an attemp to change the status qou. The issues you pointed to, where the result of generations long trends.

YOu are trying to blame Trump for policies that date back to the 60s and 70s. All the while YOUR answer is to CONTINUE those policies.

Deflection. That is a sign of economic stress you have no answer for. Regardless of your deflection there is not a prayer of that happening but he said he would do it by next week. We will see.

It is a sign of economic stress, from teh status qou that has been set since the 60s adn 70s. Globalization. High immigration. ect.

A status qou that you are defending. All the while citing the bad numbers as an attack on the guy that just got here.

Those are not good indicators as to how voters feel financially - obviously some correlation exists but most people are not large stock holders.

You go back and read my posts from years ago, and I have always said that the macro economic numbers are not the end of the issue.

BUt, you don't want to completely ignore then either.


Some of the points you raise are valid. But to do that "yeah, but" defense,

you have to do the YES bit.

We are in an economic struggle with our trading "partners", especially China.

If we had gone into a recession, our "partners" would have been estatic. That would have indicated that Trump was failing and they could wait him out, till the dems took back power and returned to the status quo, where they benefit at our expense.

The status qou you are defending.


INSTEAD, they see we are doing well. BETTER THAN THEM.


This is very good news, at a pivotal time.


That is teh reality of the situation.

Do you want to discuss what to do for the good of America, or do you just want to advance the libtard agenda, even if it hurts Americans?

 

[citygator]

Pointing to partisan hacks as a reason to dismiss the idea of planning ahead, is... insane.

I'm hearing predictions for hte next quarter, of FIVE percent.

Sounds crazy. HOw high would it have to be for you to admit it was good?

Would you do it if it is 4? What about 5? If it is SEVEN would you admit it was good?

Again. Consumer spending is only 2.3% full year. Government spending and business investment is basically flat. That is all about a 2% growth or lower for the year in actual growth.

The import/export swings do not net real growth. All the export growth was precious metals as people flooded Gold/Silver purchases as a safe haven for investments. The import contraction doesnt add real growth either.

If you are looking at the topline GDP estimates its because either 1. You dont know how they work or 2. You simply want to cheer vs understand the metrics. My guess is 2 because you seem to understand them.

Does increases in wages immediately change things, or does it take time?

There is no real material wage increases happening and the little that is happening is concentrated in the top 10%. Wages have been an issue for decades. No improvement is occuring.

Maga is a new thing, an attemp to change the status qou. The issues you pointed to, where the result of generations long trends.

Maga (trickle down economics) is not a new thing. Being championed by low information working class is a new thing, ill grant you. Protectionism is a new thing for right wingers too. But the overall principles are as old as Reagan's failed policies.

YOu are trying to blame Trump for policies that date back to the 60s and 70s. All the while YOUR answer is to CONTINUE those policies.

Im explaining why talking about the stock market or economy topline numbers do not reflect what's happening to real people as evident by Trump's low approval on the economy, the low consumer confidence, the low percent of spending from the bottom 90% of people. No one is feeling like we have a good economy except the top of the top.

It is a sign of economic stress, from teh status qou that has been set since the 60s adn 70s. Globalization. High immigration. ect.

A status qou that you are defending. All the while citing the bad numbers as an attack on the guy that just got here.

Your keep saying status quo. Trump implemented top tier tax cuts as old as the 90's expecting it to trickle down like the lies of the 80's. Trump/MAGA IS status quo with more taxes being put on American working classes through tariffs (which will likely be ruled illegal) and providing relief to the wealthy.

You go back and read my posts from years ago, and I have always said that the macro economic numbers are not the end of the issue.

BUt, you don't want to completely ignore then either.

I agree they are a data point but as I described above the nuances in this current year with the wild Trump swings in tariffs requires you not look at the top line and break out the components.

Some of the points you raise are valid. But to do that "yeah, but" defense,

you have to do the YES bit.

We are in an economic struggle with our trading "partners", especially China.

If we had gone into a recession, our "partners" would have been estatic. That would have indicated that Trump was failing and they could wait him out, till the dems took back power and returned to the status quo, where they benefit at our expense.

The status qou you are defending.


INSTEAD, they see we are doing well. BETTER THAN THEM.


This is very good news, at a pivotal time.


That is teh reality of the situation.

Do you want to discuss what to do for the good of America, or do you just want to advance the libtard agenda, even if it hurts Americans?

I want to discuss whether Trump's actions are improving the economy for voters or not. They are not. That is all the next two elections will be about.

 

[Correll]

Again. Consumer spending is only 2.3% full year. Government spending and business investment is basically flat. That is all about a 2% growth or lower for the year in actual growth.

The import/export swings do not net real growth. All the export growth was precious metals as people flooded Gold/Silver purchases as a safe haven for investments. The import contraction doesnt add real growth either.

If you are looking at the topline GDP estimates its because either 1. You dont know how they work or 2. You simply want to cheer vs understand the metrics. My guess is 2 because you seem to understand them.

DO not exaggerate my understanding of economics.

I ask again, how high would it have to be, before you would admit it was a good number?

There is no real material wage increases happening and the little that is happening is concentrated in the top 10%. Wages have been an issue for decades. No improvement is occuring.

That is simply not true. The numbers are early, but as I understand it, they have been showing good growth at the BOTTOM end of the scale. That was certainly the case the first term.

Maga (trickle down economics) is not a new thing. Being championed by low information working class is a new thing, ill grant you. Protectionism is a new thing for right wingers too. But the overall principles are as old as Reagan's failed policies.

Those policies that you want to keep. All the while attacking their results, but fighting to not change them.

Im explaining why talking about the stock market or economy topline numbers do not reflect what's happening to real people as evident by Trump's low approval on the economy, the low consumer confidence, the low percent of spending from the bottom 90% of people. No one is feeling like we have a good economy except the top of the top.

If the people are making choices based on generations old trends, and blaming the guy that just showed up, trying to change things,

then you should be talking to THEM, explaining how that makes no sense.

Not defending them. And supporting them.

Your keep saying status quo. Trump implemented top tier tax cuts as old as the 90's expecting it to trickle down like the lies of the 80's. Trump/MAGA IS status quo with more taxes being put on American working classes through tariffs (which will likely be ruled illegal) and providing relief to the wealthy.

Combined with pro-jobs trade and immigration policies, it is different.

It would be an insane overreach for a judge to stop the tarriffs. INdeed, like a breaking of democracy overreach.

I agree they are a data point but as I described above the nuances in this current year with the wild Trump swings in tariffs requires you not look at the top line and break out the components.

We should ALWAYS look deeper than just the top number.

I am certainly willing to discuss the components. And what they have to say about what is occurring.

But the top number says something too.

I want to discuss whether Trump's actions are improving the economy for voters or not. They are not. That is all the next two elections will be about.

They clearly are. ANd as it stands, if the election was held today, it seems that it would be about the success teh media had, in shouting down the good numbers, with manufactured outrage. And lies.

 

[jc456]

You support his move on capping credit card rates?

no I don't. That's price fixing and I am against that one. Bad for future business for small businesses. Watch some economic reports.

 

[citygator]

DO not exaggerate my understanding of economics.

I ask again, how high would it have to be, before you would admit it was a good number?



That is simply not true. The numbers are early, but as I understand it, they have been showing good growth at the BOTTOM end of the scale. That was certainly the case the first term.



Those policies that you want to keep. All the while attacking their results, but fighting to not change them.



If the people are making choices based on generations old trends, and blaming the guy that just showed up, trying to change things,

then you should be talking to THEM, explaining how that makes no sense.

Not defending them. And supporting them.




Combined with pro-jobs trade and immigration policies, it is different.

It would be an insane overreach for a judge to stop the tarriffs. INdeed, like a breaking of democracy overreach.




We should ALWAYS look deeper than just the top number.

I am certainly willing to discuss the components. And what they have to say about what is occurring.

But the top number says something too.



They clearly are. ANd as it stands, if the election was held today, it seems that it would be about the success teh media had, in shouting down the good numbers, with manufactured outrage. And lies.

To answer your question anything above a 3% EXCLUDING import/export adjustments is good. Below a 3% is mediocre. Below a 2% is concerning. We are about at a 2%.

Top line numbers are irrelevant to real economic growth when it doesn’t reflect the underlying strength. I explained the underlying component noise.

Trump didnt just get there we have been living with his tax and spend policy since he cut taxes for the wealthy that the democrats were unable to unwind and then Trump made them ongoing which is just a revisit of Bush’s tax cuts that drove so much debt to America.

The pieces he has layered on this year are:

• Tariffs which are universally hated by anyone in business and by consumers
• Destruction of consumer protection infrastructure
• Massive demand swings requiring public bailouts of farms
• Massive debt accumulation from upcoming deficits
• Instability of independent institutions such as the FED

And beyond tariffs and deficits, the damage comes from instability: immigration/labor shocks that raise costs, supply chain uncertainty that freezes investment, retaliation that hits U.S. exports, and constant pressure on rule-of-law institutions (courts, agencies, the Fed). Markets hate chaos. You can’t run a modern economy on “own the libs” vibes and expect stable prices, stable hiring, or stable growth.

 

[Correll]

To answer your question anything above a 3% EXCLUDING import/export adjustments is good. Below a 3% is mediocre. Below a 2% is concerning. We are about at a 2%.

A man with a job shipping something overseas, ie an export, is making money, supporting himself, and his family.

Why is that "irrelevant"?

...

Trump didnt just get there we have been living with his tax and spend policy since he cut taxes for the wealthy that the democrats were unable to unwind and then Trump made them ongoing which is just a revisit of Bush’s tax cuts that drove so much debt to America.

As you stated, those "tax and spend" policies go back to Reagan. At least.

And you are blaming Trump for the results of policies dating back generations.

If you were serious about your stated positions and had good intentions towards AMERICA, you would be arguing FOR change.

Or at least defending Trump from the people blaming HIM for this situation.

The pieces he has layered on this year are:

• Tariffs which are universally hated by anyone in business and by consumers

The anti-tarrif argument was that they would cause high inflation and a recession.

Neither has happened.

• Destruction of consumer protection infrastructure

The perception is that there was massive overreach. If you want to see it come back, make specific arguments on a case by case basis.

• Massive demand swings requiring public bailouts of farms

A transitional period will have costs. Our trade "partners" have leverage to use against us. Hopefully when we win, these weapons against us, can be undone.

• Massive debt accumulation from upcoming deficits

Sorry. I've accepted that we, ie republicans have lost on this issue. EVERYTIME, we try to address it, the dems SUCCESSFULLY demogague us, and win elections.

So, yeah. We lost. You won. We will kick that can down the road, till it blows up in our faces. That is the plan you guys wanted. and fought for. And got.

• Instability of independent institutions such as the FED

Seems to me everything was politicized AGAINST maga. That makes everything a valid political front for politcial action.

And beyond tariffs and deficits, the damage comes from instability: immigration/labor shocks that raise costs, supply chain uncertainty that freezes investment, retaliation that hits U.S. exports, and constant pressure on rule-of-law institutions (courts, agencies, the Fed). Markets hate chaos. You can’t run a modern economy on “own the libs” vibes and expect stable prices, stable hiring, or stable growth.

A transitional period, is by it's nature unstable. There is risk in change.

YOU have often and well, described teh negative status qou.

The NEED for change is obvious.

The fact that we did not have numbers showing a RECESSION, despite this is a massive win both for AMERICA and for MAGA.

The goal is to reindustrialize America, bringing back some significant portion of the lost jobs. And to stop the flow of immigrantion so that we have tim to assimilate the massive population of first gen immigrants.

If we can do that, the situation will stablize, with new and better trends leading to a better status quo and improved quality of life for all Americans.

 

[citygator]

A man with a job shipping something overseas, ie an export, is making money, supporting himself, and his family.

Why is that "irrelevant"?

I explained the exports are gold and silver which are mostly price increases and financing. Net export growth was negative in Q3 when you back out gold and precious metals. The guy making something lost his job because he is not exporting any more than last year - manufacturing jobs contracted last year. STUFF WE MAKE did not go up. Only investing metals went up. It made up 96% of the export increase in the last release in Q3 for October.

Trump and his circle rely on people not reading or taking time to understand what the numbers tell you. Increasing exports has nothing to do with stuff we made. Its a rush to buy gold and silver which happens in volatile times.

Gold and silver havent risen like this since '79-80 recession... closest to it was 09-11 recession.

As you stated, those "tax and spend" policies go back to Reagan. At least.

And you are blaming Trump for the results of policies dating back generations.

If you were serious about your stated positions and had good intentions towards AMERICA, you would be arguing FOR change.

Or at least defending Trump from the people blaming HIM for this situation.

Bad change isnt good. You seem to give Trump credit for disrupting. Tearing things down is easy. Building is hard. That is why Trump hasnt built any healthcare options to replace obamacare. Its why Trump never finished an "infrastructure week". Trump has dismantled a lot. He has built, improved, or replaced nothing. He hasnt even built a wall, his election cornerstone. Shit. Look at the East Wing.... he tore it down and has no plan approved and has people quitting from the disruption and a judge is pausing the construction.

The anti-tarrif argument was that they would cause high inflation and a recession.

Neither has happened.

Price increases from COVID took an entire year. Prices are edging up but many companies are hoping for a SCOTUS miracle and have made as many adjustments as they can. Why do you think hiring and business investment has plummeted? Companies are cutting corners to stave off price increases as long as they can. It wont be much longer in my opinion unless SCOTUS kills the tariffs.

The perception is that there was massive overreach. If you want to see it come back, make specific arguments on a case by case basis.

Again. Its easier to tear down than to build or improve. As an example... one of many.. i give you the destruction of food safety and a specific example was increasing slaughterhouse line speeds while decreasing government inspections. Absolutely crazy.

A transitional period will have costs. Our trade "partners" have leverage to use against us. Hopefully when we win, these weapons against us, can be undone.

All you are saying is that you are OK giving farmers billions of dollars due to who they vote for even though Trump's policies destroy their markets. 2025 was a record trade deficit in agriculture. There is an excuse for everything. $30B for farmers to rectify a Trump made issue is ok but $30B in healthcare subsidies for the working class and poor was too much? The hypocrisy.

Sorry. I've accepted that we, ie republicans have lost on this issue. EVERYTIME, we try to address it, the dems SUCCESSFULLY demogague us, and win elections.

So, yeah. We lost. You won. We will kick that can down the road, till it blows up in our faces. That is the plan you guys wanted. and fought for. And got.

You are basically trying to blame the democrats for the republicans making the deficit WORSE. That is a republican choice. EVERY Republican has left a HIGHER deficit than when he started. EVERY Democrat has left a LOWER deficit than when he started. Without exception since Reagan. Republicans give lip service to deficits. They oppose democratic small deficits but ignore republican large deficits. Its a joke. No one to blame but republicans.

Seems to me everything was politicized AGAINST maga. That makes everything a valid political front for politcial action.

Meh. The Fed, courts, law enforcement, intelligence agencies—those systems only work when people believe they follow rules, not factions.

If you turn them into political battlegrounds, you don’t punish your opponents… you damage the credibility of the whole country and raise the cost of doing business for everyone.

That’s not “politics.” That’s institutional erosion. And it always ends with weaker stability, weaker confidence, and worse outcomes for regular people.

A transitional period, is by it's nature unstable. There is risk in change.

YOU have often and well, described teh negative status qou.

The NEED for change is obvious.

The fact that we did not have numbers showing a RECESSION, despite this is a massive win both for AMERICA and for MAGA.

The goal is to reindustrialize America, bringing back some significant portion of the lost jobs. And to stop the flow of immigrantion so that we have tim to assimilate the massive population of first gen immigrants.

If we can do that, the situation will stablize, with new and better trends leading to a better status quo and improved quality of life for all Americans.

This is what maga gets dead wrong. There is no future for manufacturing in the US. No one wants those jobs. They are hard work and pay shit. The profit sucks too. Most of our economy is service not goods.

And look at the biggest American companies: Apple, Microsoft, Google, Amazon, Meta.. They aren’t “factory empires.” They’re built on services, software, platforms, and networks.

Trying to rebuild the economy around 1950s industry is like Trump trying to bring back coal—it’s horse-and-buggy thinking in a world that moved on.

And the reality check? We’ve lost domestic manufacturing jobs in 2025—not gained them.

 

[Hafar1014]

I explained the exports are gold and silver which are mostly price increases and financing. Net export growth was negative in Q3 when you back out gold and precious metals. The guy making something lost his job because he is not exporting any more than last year - manufacturing jobs contracted last year. STUFF WE MAKE did not go up. Only investing metals went up. It made up 96% of the export increase in the last release in Q3 for October.

Trump and his circle rely on people not reading or taking time to understand what the numbers tell you. Increasing exports has nothing to do with stuff we made. Its a rush to buy gold and silver which happens in volatile times.

Gold and silver havent risen like this since '79-80 recession... closest to it was 09-11 recession.


Bad change isnt good. You seem to give Trump credit for disrupting. Tearing things down is easy. Building is hard. That is why Trump hasnt built any healthcare options to replace obamacare. Its why Trump never finished an "infrastructure week". Trump has dismantled a lot. He has built, improved, or replaced nothing. He hasnt even built a wall, his election cornerstone. Shit. Look at the East Wing.... he tore it down and has no plan approved and has people quitting from the disruption and a judge is pausing the construction.

Price increases from COVID took an entire year. Prices are edging up but many companies are hoping for a SCOTUS miracle and have made as many adjustments as they can. Why do you think hiring and business investment has plummeted? Companies are cutting corners to stave off price increases as long as they can. It wont be much longer in my opinion unless SCOTUS kills the tariffs.

Again. Its easier to tear down than to build or improve. As an example... one of many.. i give you the destruction of food safety and a specific example was increasing slaughterhouse line speeds while decreasing government inspections. Absolutely crazy.

All you are saying is that you are OK giving farmers billions of dollars due to who they vote for even though Trump's policies destroy their markets. 2025 was a record trade deficit in agriculture. There is an excuse for everything. $30B for farmers to rectify a Trump made issue is ok but $30B in healthcare subsidies for the working class and poor was too much? The hypocrisy.

You are basically trying to blame the democrats for the republicans making the deficit WORSE. That is a republican choice. EVERY Republican has left a HIGHER deficit than when he started. EVERY Democrat has left a LOWER deficit than when he started. Without exception since Reagan. Republicans give lip service to deficits. They oppose democratic small deficits but ignore republican large deficits. Its a joke. No one to blame but republicans.

Meh. The Fed, courts, law enforcement, intelligence agencies—those systems only work when people believe they follow rules, not factions.

If you turn them into political battlegrounds, you don’t punish your opponents… you damage the credibility of the whole country and raise the cost of doing business for everyone.

That’s not “politics.” That’s institutional erosion. And it always ends with weaker stability, weaker confidence, and worse outcomes for regular people.

This is what maga gets dead wrong. There is no future for manufacturing in the US. No one wants those jobs. They are hard work and pay shit. The profit sucks too. Most of our economy is service not goods.

And look at the biggest American companies: Apple, Microsoft, Google, Amazon, Meta.. They aren’t “factory empires.” They’re built on services, software, platforms, and networks.

Trying to rebuild the economy around 1950s industry is like Trump trying to bring back coal—it’s horse-and-buggy thinking in a world that moved on.

And the reality check? We’ve lost domestic manufacturing jobs in 2025—not gained them.

The economy is thriving under Trump after the Biden disaster for one reason. Less government control.

 

[sartre play]

You have two examples of people saying things and you are asking why they are not to be treated as exactly the same.


It is though you have no ability of personal judgement.

Actually, it is as though not only don't you have any, but you have never even been exposed to the CONCEPT of it.


For me to answer your question... as it was presented, would be me explaining that concept to you, and then telling you to develope that skill and then apply it to the question.

In reality, I don't believe it was a serious question. You were presented with a point that was a strong point and instead of dealing with it seriously you asked a "question" designed to derail the discussion, into meaningless quibbles about semantics or some such shit.


The reality is that Trump is trying to talk the economy up, which is really part of his job, and the dems are trying to talk the economy DOWN, which is reallyh a BETRAYAL of their job and their responsibilities to their constituents.

NO The honest answer is tell the truth. Stop the two party BS.
Start making it about reality, Not what supports Either political party.
They need to start working for US, Not the party.