Trump ally Erdogan claims Jerusalem for Turkey

[ESay]

lol screw Erdogan; all those Islamist morons are nuts. Trump should see what Putin would be willing to pay us to let him have the place, now that the reasons for supporting the dump ended a long time ago. All those former mosques would make great Russian language schools and tax collection offices.

Russia has never managed to get the control of the straits. And it will hardly do this in the future.

Turkey had Germany or Britain and Europe to save its ass from Russia after the decline of the Ottomans, then the U.S. since WW II; that is hardly the case now. They're running out of 'friends' fast.

Yes, but I doubt that allowing Russia to expand its influence on Eastern and South-Eastern Europe is a good idea. Russia and Turkey are destabilizing forces in this regard. The best solution is to keep their sphere of influence as close to their borders as possible and provoke tensions between them (it won't be too hard considering they are natural rivals).

 

[ekrem]

Yes, but I doubt that allowing Russia to expand its influence on Eastern and South-Eastern Europe is a good idea. Russia and Turkey are destabilizing forces in this regard. The best solution is to keep their sphere of influence as close to their borders as possible and provoke tensions between them (it won't be too hard considering they are natural rivals).

Turkish Army is in combat operations in Syria, Iraq, Libya.
It has training / peace-keeping missions in Afghanistan, Bosnia, Somalia, Qatar, Kosovo etc.
Involvement in Nagorno-Karabakh is hard to classify but at least Turkish drones are flying on behalf of Azerbaijan.

Turkish Army is true expeditionary force, mostly fielding indigenious weapons backed by a growing defense industry. It is 2nd largest Army in NATO with autonomuous logistics.
It is true security exporter not some wannabe European nation which can't operate without US logistics. NATO is USA and Turkey.

If someone wants to stop Turkey the time is now.
In the coming next years a lot of weapon programs will be going into production from Submarines over Destroyers to fighter jets.

You don't have the stomach to stop Turks then step aside and don't throiw a shadow or pick a rhetorical fight.
There are people and nations surrounding Turkey who long for Turkish presence and involvement in their country. Those calls will be answered.

 

[ekrem]

President Trump may just boot Erdofag and Turkey out of NATO. Since the Ataturks were defeated, they are now an Islamic-fascist state.

Islamic facism on display

 

[ekrem]

Turkey had Germany or Britain and Europe to save its ass from Russia after the decline of the Ottomans, then the U.S. since WW II; that is hardly the case now. They're running out of 'friends' fast.

You are a fucking idiot.
So, according to you Britain as a world power at that time protected Turkey from Russia, but in a sub-plot (introduced by me) tried to invade Turkey (Gallipoli) and got a bloody nose.
Putin is smart enough to avoid military conflict with Turkey (dream-come true for Washington cold-warriors).

Fact is: Everyone except Turkey and Iran in the region is USA's bitch.
If Russia wants a role in Middle-East it must have good relations to Iran and Turkey or there's no breathing space for Russia. I don't know much about Iran, but I know for sure Turks will fight and the outcome may not be as envisioned in Washington think-tanks financed by UAE, Saudi, Israel money.
Turkey is Islamo-fascist, Saudi / UAE are progressive now that they allow women to drive cars.
What were the nationalities of 9/11 again ? Sure, Turks flew planes of 9/11 and have serious track records of killing Americans in Middle-East / Europe / Caucasus / Central Asia.
Man, your swamp called Washinton is so fucked up if you believe in these news.
Good guys are now Saudi, UAE, and Islamo-Facist Turkey is the enemy just because AIPAC says so. OK i believe !!!!

 

[Picaro]

Turkey had Germany or Britain and Europe to save its ass from Russia after the decline of the Ottomans, then the U.S. since WW II; that is hardly the case now. They're running out of 'friends' fast.

You are a fucking idiot.
So, according to you Britain as a world power at that time protected Turkey from Russia, but in a sub-plot (introduced by me) tried to invade Turkey (Gallipoli) and got a bloody nose.
Putin is smart enough to avoid military conflict with Turkey (dream-come true for Washington cold-warriors).

Fact is: Everyone except Turkey and Iran in the region is USA's bitch.
If Russia wants a role in Middle-East it must have good relations to Iran and Turkey or there's no breathing space for Russia. I don't know much about Iran, but I know for sure Turks will fight and the outcome may not be as envisioned in Washington think-tanks financed by UAE, Saudi, Israel money.
Turkey is Islamo-fascist, Saudi / UAE are progressive now that they allow women to drive cars.
What were the nationalities of 9/11 again ? Sure, Turks flew planes of 9/11 and have serious track records of killing Americans in Middle-East / Europe / Caucasus / Central Asia.
Man, your swamp called Washinton is so fucked up if you believe in these news.
Good guys are now Saudi, UAE, and Islamo-Facist Turkey is the enemy just because AIPAC says so. OK i believe !!!!

Lol some idiot thinks Turkey is a 'power'. It's a strawman who has never stood on its own since the 18th Century. You're as nuts as Saddam was. Stick to bullying Greece and a few Syrian refugees; you will just get yourselves wiped out if you try and take on Putin without the West holding your hand and patting you on the head. Putin can find plenty of allies in a war against you.

 

[ESay]

don't have the stomach to stop Turks then step aside and don't throiw a shadow or pick a rhetorical fight.
There are people and nations surrounding Turkey who long for Turkish presence and involvement in their country. Those calls will be answered

Turkey is incapable to produce high tech hardware without Western (or something else) technologies. For example, its famous drones are equipped with Canadian electronics.

To interfere in other countries, Turkey should resolve domestic issues first. The Kurdish question is overdue and clearly they should have their state on Turkey's expense too.

The only useful role of Turkey for the West's defences strategy (if the Western countries ever decide again to be a single bloc with international influence) is containing Russia on South Eastern flanc. And it is considered an 'ally' only if it carry on with this role.

 

[Picaro]

Yes, but I doubt that allowing Russia to expand its influence on Eastern and South-Eastern Europe is a good idea. Russia and Turkey are destabilizing forces in this regard. The best solution is to keep their sphere of influence as close to their borders as possible and provoke tensions between them (it won't be too hard considering they are natural rivals).

It is indeed a bad idea, I agree, but stopping that ship from sailing failed with the Crimean and Ukrainian occupations and the retreat of both the UN and NATO from it's former national borders' policies since WW II. Economic decline, a shift in hegemonic centers, and political instability nearly everywhere is the norm now.

 

[eagle1462010]

 

[eagle1462010]

Turkey is a key strategic location.........Choke point for the black sea...........why Russia has been kissing their asses lately and selling them weapon systems...........

Erdogen has long wanted to be the new OTTOMAN EMPIRE CHAMPION......he has run on that platform before.........nothing new here..............and why we should consider throwing their asses out of NATO.

 

[ESay]

Yes, but I doubt that allowing Russia to expand its influence on Eastern and South-Eastern Europe is a good idea. Russia and Turkey are destabilizing forces in this regard. The best solution is to keep their sphere of influence as close to their borders as possible and provoke tensions between them (it won't be too hard considering they are natural rivals).

It is indeed a bad idea, I agree, but stopping that ship from sailing failed with the Crimean and Ukrainian occupations and the retreat of both the UN and NATO from it's former national borders' policies since WW II. Economic decline, a shift in hegemonic centers, and political instability nearly everywhere is the norm now.

You overestimate Russia, I think. It faces the same issues as the Western nations do, coupled with their domestic ones. Ineffective economy, highly corrupted elite, demographical changes and so on.

 

[Picaro]

Yes, but I doubt that allowing Russia to expand its influence on Eastern and South-Eastern Europe is a good idea. Russia and Turkey are destabilizing forces in this regard. The best solution is to keep their sphere of influence as close to their borders as possible and provoke tensions between them (it won't be too hard considering they are natural rivals).

It is indeed a bad idea, I agree, but stopping that ship from sailing failed with the Crimean and Ukrainian occupations and the retreat of both the UN and NATO from it's former national borders' policies since WW II. Economic decline, a shift in hegemonic centers, and political instability nearly everywhere is the norm now.

You overestimate Russia, I think. It faces the same issues as the Western nations do, coupled with their domestic ones. Ineffective economy, highly corrupted elite, demographical changes and so on.

But those conditions are the ones that make dictatorships start striking out and invading their neighbors. There would have been no low intensity warfare and relative 'peace' after WW II without nukes, and now we all know nobody is going to use them no matter what, but we also have bio-warfare coming to the forefront, which can be used with precautions and quite as deadly as nukes. Russia can undermine Turkey fairly easily; they've had a lot of successes in manipulating such countries in the past, and even almost stole Iran out from under the English and U.S. in the early 1950's. They're crooked, but not entirely stupid, either. With the Moron In Chief Erdogan now baiting the Greeks yet again along with all of his neighbors, thumbing his nose at the Europeans, etc., Russia would not be alone against him. Give it a couple of years to get worse.

 

[ESay]

Yes, but I doubt that allowing Russia to expand its influence on Eastern and South-Eastern Europe is a good idea. Russia and Turkey are destabilizing forces in this regard. The best solution is to keep their sphere of influence as close to their borders as possible and provoke tensions between them (it won't be too hard considering they are natural rivals).

It is indeed a bad idea, I agree, but stopping that ship from sailing failed with the Crimean and Ukrainian occupations and the retreat of both the UN and NATO from it's former national borders' policies since WW II. Economic decline, a shift in hegemonic centers, and political instability nearly everywhere is the norm now.

You overestimate Russia, I think. It faces the same issues as the Western nations do, coupled with their domestic ones. Ineffective economy, highly corrupted elite, demographical changes and so on.

But those conditions are the ones that make dictatorships start striking out and invading their neighbors. There would have been no low intensity warfare and relative 'peace' after WW II without nukes, and now we all know nobody is going to use them no matter what, but we also have bio-warfare coming to the forefront, which can be used with precautions and quite as deadly as nukes. Russia can undermine Turkey fairly easily; they've had a lot of successes in manipulating such countries in the past, and even almost stole Iran out from under the English and U.S. in the early 1950's. They're crooked, but not entirely stupid, either. With the Moron In Chief Erdogan now baiting the Greeks yet again along with all of his neighbors, thumbing his nose at the Europeans, etc., Russia would not be alone against him. Give it a couple of years to get worse.

Well, the Turkish issue is quite complex. I can only guess how the things will be unfolding in the future. If Europe will have to get help from Russia in their rivalry with Turkey, they should be prepare that Russia will demand some 'preferences' in exchange.

What Europe is going to offer? The control of Constantinople? Frankly, I highly doubt that Russia will agree on that. Too many troubles it will cause.

 

[ekrem]

Turkey is incapable to produce high tech hardware without Western (or something else) technologies. For example, its famous drones are equipped with Canadian electronics.

The smaller Bayraktar TB-2 drone is using electro-optic components from Wescam (Canada).
Foreign content of the whole drone doesn't exceed 7 % according to Financial Times from UK.

Baykar, which imports 7 per cent of the components used for the TB2

Turkey’s armed drones bolster Erdogan’s hard-power tactics

Nagorno-Karabakh is latest overseas conflict where Turkish-produced weapons have been deployed

www.ft.com

Turkey stockpiled enough WESCAM components, and for the much bigger drones like Akinci, Aksungur and ANKA the Turks went for indigenious solutions.

Here ANKA drone with CATS from Aselsan

Aselsan is one of 7 Turkish companies in Top-100 defense companies in world whereas Canada only has 1 company in Top-100 with Wescam not even making it into that list. It's global supply chain, and not even the USA produces everything 100% indigeniously.

Top 100 | Defense News, News about defense programs, business, and technology

people.defensenews.com

 

[ekrem]

Lol some idiot thinks Turkey is a 'power'. It's a strawman who has never stood on its own since the 18th Century. You're as nuts as Saddam was. Stick to bullying Greece and a few Syrian refugees; you will just get yourselves wiped out if you try and take on Putin without the West holding your hand and patting you on the head. Putin can find plenty of allies in a war against you.

Pentagon website

https://media.defense.gov/2020/Aug/31/2002487583/-1/-1/1/URCOSTA.PDF

The beginning of 2020 nearly witnessed Russia and Turkey in direct kinetic war, initially due to a successful Syrian offensive against Turkish-backed rebel forces. (...)
It was truly a transformational confrontation that will definitely be added into military handbooks and manuals around the globe. The UAVs in this full-scale military operation were not merely an element of intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance (ISR) but rather instruments of combat, fully integrated into the operational strategy of three countries: Syria, Russia, and Turkey. (...)
Sources indicate that Turkish electronic warfare systems (EWS) allowed Turkish forces to undertake all necessary tasks during the conflict with the Syrian Army, despite Russian and Syrian government forces’ closure of the airspace over Idlib. (...)
Turkish operations in Idlib involved the tactical Bayraktar TB2 and multipurpose TAI Anka mediumaltitude, long-range (MALE) UAVs.1 The massive employment of these UAVs ensured the unprecedented success of the Turkish Army, sending a message not only to Russia but also to Ankara’s Western allies—and more importantly, to the regional powers with whom Turkey is competing for regional hegemony—that Turkey had made great leaps in this new war domain. (...)
The Turkish EMS system enabled Ankara to listen into Syrian Army telephones, allowing them to detect the coordinates of the Syrians. Then Turkish forces transmitted those locations to the TAI Anka UAVs, which relayed data to the combat Bayraktar TB2s for target elimination. Naturally, Russian specialists blame their adversary’s success on the Syrians, saying their allies did not know how to run EMS warfare—naïvely using their cell phones. The immediate countermeasure for the Syrian Army and its local allies was primitive but effective— terminating the use of cell phones and anything that allowed others to detect their location. Orders were subsequently issued on paper, and subsequently, neither Turkish UAVs nor EMS systems could identify the Syrians. Importantly, Western specialists completely disagree with the Russian assessment. (...)
Thanks to restrictive measures on Western drone technology toward Ankara, Turkey has arguably become the leading state with combat-proven UAVs in the Middle East. Some experts are even calling Turkey a “drone superpower,” but it is too early for such claims—despite the obvious momentum in that direction. (...)
Moscow was forced to reconsider its situation in Syria. Taking a new angle, Russia seeks a long-lasting strategy toward improving relations with Turkey and avoiding direct confrontation with Ankara.

Libya as the Largest Drone Battlefield in the World
In Libya and Syria, the incessant use of combat UAVs allowed Turkey to alter the situation on the ground. (...)
Additionally, Turkey deployed its KORAL EWS, which is an integral component of the abovementioned air-defense and radio-electronic warfare complex. The KORALs are able to jam the work of the Pantsir-S1 and Chinese UAVs and can be used for jamming other target sets, including communications and other emitters, such as line-of-sight drone control links. The system also has useful direction-finding capabilities that could geolocate enemy forces by zeroing in on their radiofrequency emissions. These systems actually cover Tripoli and its outskirts to a radius of 124 miles (200 km). (...)
Thanks to Turkey’s ability to demonstrate its UAVs combat-proven capabilities, Ukraine, Qatar, and Tunisia have already purchased Turkish drones. Turkish UAVs now compete with Chinese, American, Israeli, and other major UAV-producing nations’ products in the international market. Given their respective performances in Libya, nations are more likely to turn to Turkish drones than Chinese ones, which are offering a similar package. (...)
Drone technology has brought Russia and Turkey to the fore of modern warfare, on a par with the United States.

 

[ekrem]

Additionally, Turkey deployed its KORAL EWS, which is an integral component of the abovementioned air-defense and radio-electronic warfare complex.

In Libya jamming Copernicus satellite, probably Turkish Navy in the area

 

[Sunni Man]

Erdogan and Trump are very similar.
Both are great men who love their country and its people. ...

 

[ekrem]

and why we should consider throwing their asses out of NATO.

Garfinkle was a speechwriter for both of President George W. Bush's Secretaries of State, Colin Powell and Condoleezza Rice
Adam Garfinkle - Wikipedia

If the Turkish leadership decides it needs a nuclear weapons program as a hedge against the end of the U.S. extended deterrence shield, its scientific/engineering capabilities, greater than Iran’s, could probably produce nuclear weapons and airplanes capable of delivering them on its side of the ocean within two to three years.
Turkish Disconnections - The American Interest

 

[ekrem]

But those conditions are the ones that make dictatorships start striking out and invading their neighbors. There would have been no low intensity warfare and relative 'peace' after WW II without nukes, and now we all know nobody is going to use them no matter what, but we also have bio-warfare coming to the forefront, which can be used with precautions and quite as deadly as nukes. Russia can undermine Turkey fairly easily; they've had a lot of successes in manipulating such countries in the past, and even almost stole Iran out from under the English and U.S. in the early 1950's. They're crooked, but not entirely stupid, either. With the Moron In Chief Erdogan now baiting the Greeks yet again along with all of his neighbors, thumbing his nose at the Europeans, etc., Russia would not be alone against him. Give it a couple of years to get worse.

Greece is bankrupt, a debt-colony of Germany.
Europeans should first increase their military spending and pay their NATO-debts to Mr. Trump
US Army needs to babysit European armies once they deploy abroad, bitter reality.
In Bosnia, Kosovo oth in Europe they were totally paralyzed, those conflicts ended once USA intervened.
In Ukraine (Europe also) they didn't even deliver a single bullet or anti-tank missiles to the Ukrainians out of fear towards Russia.

Arab monarchies don't survive 2 weeks without US support.

 

[Crepitus]

Trump's ally? You fucking hate filled fascist retard, I wish I had made your acquaintance in the desert...

Yet tRump's buddy he is.

 

[eagle1462010]

and why we should consider throwing their asses out of NATO.

Garfinkle was a speechwriter for both of President George W. Bush's Secretaries of State, Colin Powell and Condoleezza Rice
Adam Garfinkle - Wikipedia

If the Turkish leadership decides it needs a nuclear weapons program as a hedge against the end of the U.S. extended deterrence shield, its scientific/engineering capabilities, greater than Iran’s, could probably produce nuclear weapons and airplanes capable of delivering them on its side of the ocean within two to three years.
Turkish Disconnections - The American Interest

So..............one Trident SSBN can wipe out most major cities across all of Russia Turkey and China by itself.............1.........