Trump admits he set President Biden up for failure with the Afghanistan withdrawal...

[Lone Wanderer]

Watch your double negatives

Reversing course WAS off the table.

No one… no one wanted to continue that debacle

Thanks for catching the grammatical thing.

So, let's get down to it then. Was it really a debacle only after Trump's involvement?

 

[BlindBoo]

Hold on. You earlier said that it was a terrible situation because of Trump, but now, it's the "greatest evacuation in modern history?" I'm assuming you meant to add "given the circumstances". Otherwise, you contradicted yourself here.

It was the execution of the Doha Accords that I blame on Benedict Donald. Had he enforced the conditions on the Taliban before we started pulling troops out there would have not been a civil war raging as we were evacuating our remaining troops and all those civilians. The first condition they ignored was a truce between the Afghans and the Taliban and the start of peace talks. Had he demanded the condition that the Taliban not allow other terrorist groups to use Afghan soil to attack Americans, ISIS might never had been successful.

 

[Lone Wanderer]

It was the execution of the Doha Accords that I blame on Benedict Donald. Had he enforced the conditions on the Taliban before we started pulling troops out there would have not been a civil war raging as we were evacuating our remaining troops and all those civilians. The first condition they ignored was a truce between the Afghans and the Taliban and the start of peace talks. Had he demanded the condition that the Taliban not allow other terrorist groups to use Afghan soil to attack Americans, ISIS might never had been successful.

Fair enough. Now, let's move to where things were a month after Biden entered office. Was there any sign that continuing the same course would work, or did other options look preferable?

 

[BlindBoo]

Thanks for catching the grammatical thing.

So, let's get down to it then. Was it really a debacle only after Trump's involvement?

Gen. Milley: (29:51)
And everyone has served in that war should be proud. Your service mattered. Beginning in 2011, we sternly drew down our troop numbers, consolidated and closed bases and retrograded equipment from Afghanistan. At the peak in 2011, we had 97,000 US troops alongside 41,000 NATO troops in Afghanistan. 10 years later when Ambassador Khalilzad signed the Doha agreement with Mullah Baradar on 29, February, 2020, United States at 12,600 US troops with 8,000 NATO and 10,500 contractors. This has been a 10 year multi administration draw down, not a 19 month or 19 day NEO. Under the Doha agreement, the US would begin to withdraw its forces contingent upon Taliban meeting certain conditions, which would lead to a political agreement between the Taliban and the government of Afghanistan. There were seven conditions applicable to the Taliban and eight conditions applicable to the United States. While the Taliban did not attack US forces, which was one of the conditions, it failed to fully honor, any, any other condition under the Doha agreement.

Gen. Milley: (31:22)
And perhaps most importantly, for US national security, that Taliban has never renounced Al-Qaeda or broke its affiliation with them. We the United States adhered to every condition.

 

[Lone Wanderer]

Gen. Milley: (29:51)
And everyone has served in that war should be proud. Your service mattered. Beginning in 2011, we sternly drew down our troop numbers, consolidated and closed bases and retrograded equipment from Afghanistan. At the peak in 2011, we had 97,000 US troops alongside 41,000 NATO troops in Afghanistan. 10 years later when Ambassador Khalilzad signed the Doha agreement with Mullah Baradar on 29, February, 2020, United States at 12,600 US troops with 8,000 NATO and 10,500 contractors. This has been a 10 year multi administration draw down, not a 19 month or 19 day NEO. Under the Doha agreement, the US would begin to withdraw its forces contingent upon Taliban meeting certain conditions, which would lead to a political agreement between the Taliban and the government of Afghanistan. There were seven conditions applicable to the Taliban and eight conditions applicable to the United States. While the Taliban did not attack US forces, which was one of the conditions, it failed to fully honor, any, any other condition under the Doha agreement.

Gen. Milley: (31:22)
And perhaps most importantly, for US national security, that Taliban has never renounced Al-Qaeda or broke its affiliation with them. We the United States adhered to every condition.

So 10 year debacle then.

 

[BlindBoo]

Fair enough. Now, let's move to where things were a month after Biden entered office. Was there any sign that continuing the same course would work, or did other options look preferable?

The status quo was untenable. The truce was going to end. A force of just 2,500 soldiers was also untenable. Keeping them there would mean a return to war.

 

[BlindBoo]

So 10 year debacle then.

A debacle since Tora Bora. Closer to 20 years.

 

[Lone Wanderer]

The status quo was untenable. The truce was going to end. A force of just 2,500 soldiers was also untenable. Keeping them there would mean a return to war.

I guess this is just a matter of opinion then. I didn't exactly care for the war overall, but if the only options are a botched withdrawal or continuing the war, then I'll take the latter.

 

[Marchimedes]

As many of us have been saying for years. the Afghanistan thing was set up to make Joe Biden look bad,

An impossible problem with impossible goals on an impossible timeline. All set up by trump, who finally admits it on video.

Why the fu(k did you cut that off? Sumpin you don't want us to see?

Trump set up a conditional withdrawal in Afghanistan, 7 conditions and the taliban broke 6 of them before the ink was dry. Go find them and read them! America made this happen...

SlowJoeBiden made this happen...

Bu-bu-but you lefties are for women's rights. As long as they can vote for ya'll.

 

[BlindBoo]

I guess this is just a matter of opinion then. I didn't exactly care for the war overall, but if the only options are a botched withdrawal or continuing the war, then I'll take the latter.

The botches in the withdrawal came in 2020 and were irreversible by 2021 without a massive redeployment of troops. How many more US troops would you have sacrificed and for what goal?

 

[Lone Wanderer]

The botches in the withdrawal came in 2020 and were irreversible by 2021 without a massive redeployment of troops. How many more US troops would you have sacrificed and for what goal?

However many it would have taken to offset the negative effects of the withdrawal that actually happened.

Hindsight is 20/20, so I'm not saying that Biden could have foreseen the full extent of how bad this ended up, but it sounds like a surge and then maybe splitting Afghanistan into 5 tribal nations would have been the best option. Ralph Peters mentioned the 5 nations concept a while back, and it always made more sense than trying to maintain an essentially artificial single nation.

 

[Kruska]

Israeli intelligence showed that the Iran deal only made it easier for Iran to pursue nuclear weapons and fund terrorism.

Israeli intelligence - you mean like the one about WMD's in Iraq?? and warning of an imminent Hamas attack??

Having a detente with North Korea doesn't sound like a fuckup to me,

Detente? the USA and N-Korea never signed a peace agreement, until today!! They are FACTUALLY in a state of war - that paused due to an armistice agreement - an agreement that N-Korea continuously ignores and breaks !! You already forgot about N-Korea's artillery barrage and demonstration during Trump's term?? upon which he titled Kim Yong Un - as being his buddy and started writing love-letters??
And N-Korea was nowhere near it's present nuclear ambitions - till Trump enabled and "tolerated" it.

Also, Putin was far more aggressive with both Obama and Biden than with Trump.

You really know how to make me laugh - Trump had done absolutely nothing to get Russian troops out of Crimea/Donbas and Luhansk.
Thus encouraging Putin to keep his hands on it - he then sabotaged NATO via bringing in his "fake bill" claim - in the meantime he is even encouraging Putin and others to attack NATO members!!!

China made several concessions to Trump. Those don't sound like fuckups to me.

What concessions did China make to Trump?? I am all ears.
That the American taxpayer has to pay for the idiots imposed import tariffs?? whilst causing a world wide economic recession that affects everyone and every country negatively.
That China got it's soy beans cheaper from the USA, then from Brazil - for a short period??
That China increased it's purchases from the USA, foremost in regards to high-tech & microchips for two years - knowing that the USA will come up with some ideas?? Which Trump then sold to his supporters as having "forced" China to remedy the USA's disastrous import-export balance?

The only concession China made, was to halt a US$ 7 billion deal with Boeing and to take Boeing out of a future US$ 26 billion deal. Investing heavily into Mexico - where Trump and the US industry had initiated, loads of "new jobs for Americans". And surpassing the US navy.

 

[Lone Wanderer]

Israeli intelligence - you mean like the one about WMD's in Iraq?? and warning of an imminent Hamas attack??

WMDs in Iraq was largely argued using American intelligence, not Israeli intelligence.

Détente? the USA and N-Korea never signed a peace agreement, until today!! They are FACTUALLY in a state of war - that paused due to an armistice agreement - an agreement that N-Korea continuously ignores and breaks !! You already forgot about N-Korea's artillery barrage and demonstration during Trump's term?? upon which he titled Kim Yong Un - as being his buddy and started writing love-letters??
And N-Korea was nowhere near it's present nuclear ambitions - till Trump enabled and "tolerated" it.

Well, Western media wasn't exactly supportive of trying to improve relations with North Korea during Trump's attempts, nor was our bureaucratic state. You're really good at repeating the media's rhetoric at that time though.

You really know how to make me laugh - Trump had done absolutely nothing to get Russian troops out of Crimea/Donbas and Luhansk.
Thus encouraging Putin to keep his hands on it - he then sabotaged NATO via bringing in his "fake bill" claim - in the meantime he is even encouraging Putin and others to attack NATO members!!!

Putin took Crimea during Obama's administration. Putin did not invade Donbas until Biden was in office. So, while it is true that Trump did not push Putin out of Crimea, Putin also did not advance in Ukraine during his term. Putin did provide material support for separatists in the Donbas, but that had been going on since Obama's time in office.

What concessions did China make to Trump?? I am all ears.
That the American taxpayer has to pay for the idiots imposed import tariffs?? whilst causing a world wide economic recession that affects everyone and every country negatively.
That China got it's soy beans cheaper from the USA, then from Brazil - for a short period??
That China increased it's purchases from the USA, foremost in regards to high-tech & microchips for two years - knowing that the USA will come up with some ideas?? Which Trump then sold to his supporters as having "forced" China to remedy the USA's disastrous import-export balance?

The only concession China made, was to halt a US$ 7 billion deal with Boeing and to take Boeing out of a future US$ 26 billion deal. Investing heavily into Mexico - where Trump and the US industry had initiated, loads of "new jobs for Americans". And surpassing the US navy.

So, tariffs in response to tech transfer are bad in your opinion? If so, should we just let China continue to steal tech without any recourse?

 

[Kruska]

No Kruska, I'm actually just trying to figure out if you have a stance in this other than just pure partisanship. The same for BlindBoo. I'm willing to humor the notion that Trump screwed things up before Biden entered office, but I'm trying to understand how reversing course was somehow off the table.

The decision was politically IRREVERSIBLE - and Biden was "thank God" not willing to get back into this Afghan disaster - due to Trump having screwed up the pullout - is that so hard to understand??

At the same time, your friend Boo seems to have a glowing opinion of the withdrawal while simultaneously lamenting that it happened at all.

BlindBoo is not my friend - I am very sure that we have a very different view upon US internal and foreign policy aspects.
Don't resort to MAGA style comments - just because we happen to agree on the e.g. Afghan issue, abut do feel free to show me where BlindBoo, was "lamenting about the USA pulling out of Afghanistan" - did I miss something?

 

[Lone Wanderer]

The decision was politically IRREVERSIBLE - and Biden was "thank God" not willing to get back into this Afghan disaster - due to Trump having screwed up the pullout - is that so hard to understand??

BlindBoo is not my friend - I am very sure that we have a very different view upon US internal and foreign policy aspects.
Don't resort to MAGA style comments - just because we happen to agree on the e.g. Afghan issue, abut do feel free to show me where BlindBoo, was "lamenting about the USA pulling out of Afghanistan" - did I miss something?

I'd like to hear your perspective in general on US internal and foreign policy aspects. I know that's a broad set of topics, but just summarize your viewpoint. Where do you fit in the American political spectrum?

 

[WEATHER53]

Bitch set me up
Marion Joe Biden

 

[Kruska]

I'd like to hear your perspective in general on US internal and foreign policy aspects. I know that's a broad set of topics, but just summarize your viewpoint. Where do you fit in the American political spectrum?

I fit into the American and worldwide existing Liberal/Conservative mindset - (that resents minorities imposing their will onto a majority that rejects them). (aka "fake democracies") And therefore a Dumb-Fuck like Trump who only "sprouts bull", possess absolutely no qualification to run a powerful and important country such as the USA and only harbors egocentric self-interests - is absolutely out of the question to me.

 

[Lone Wanderer]

I fit into the American and worldwide existing Liberal/Conservative mindset - (that resents minorities imposing their will onto a majority that rejects them). (aka "fake democracies") And therefore a Dumb-Fuck like Trump who only "sprouts bull", possess absolutely no qualification to run a powerful and important country such as the USA and only harbors egocentric self-interests - is absolutely out of the question to me.

If you resent minorities that impose their will onto a majority that rejects them, then I'm assuming you don't like globalists or progressives (particularly with regard to LGBT nonsense). If you dislike politicians that harbor egocentric self-interests, then you have a very short list of candidates to support. Biden surely is all about his self-interests.

 

[Kruska]

WMDs in Iraq was largely argued using American intelligence, not Israeli intelligence.

There is no such thing as "American, or e.g. German intelligence" - only e.g. American or e.g. German spread/propagated intelligence reports/contents, that are politically manipulated.

The Western intelligence services plus some "outsiders" are ALL fully interconnected/interwoven - in order to obtain an all encompassing situational report. In order to know about "withheld" knowledge amongst national agencies, they regularly spy onto each other.

E.g. The German BND, British MI6, France's DGSE - clearly refuted Mossad reports regarding WMD's in Iraq.
However Mossad reports suited Bush's agenda.

Well, Western media wasn't exactly supportive of trying to improve relations with North Korea during Trump's attempts, nor was our bureaucratic state. You're really good at repeating the media's rhetoric at that time though.

Who in politics, cares about Media reports?? - only those who fear a momentary direct negative impact onto an e.g. election, aka candidate, due to an oppositions controlled Media reports.
If Media reports would have any say in pursuing/directing politics - then the 2nd A - would no-more exist in the USA.
It is the politicians and their elitists that control the Media - thus spreading their own respective bull and not the other way around.

Neutral and professional journalism went extinct latest in the 80'ies.

Putin took Crimea during Obama's administration.

Correct

Putin did not invade Donbas until Biden was in office. So, while it is true that Trump did not push Putin out of Crimea, Putin also did not advance in Ukraine during his term. Putin did provide material support for separatists in the Donbas, but that had been going on since Obama's time in office.

Wrong - Putin send increasingly Russian troops into a sovereign nation to take control of Donbas and Luhansk during Trumps term.
These forces allowed Putin to channel/direct Russian-Ukrainian sentiments in favor of Russia. Trump never called onto Putin to stop this "illegal" maneuver, but even encouraged it, simply by doing nothing about it.

So, tariffs in response to tech transfer are bad in your opinion? If so, should we just let China continue to steal tech without any recourse?

Tariffs don't work - and never have, over and out. See these existing idiotic tariffs between the EU and the USA.

It is the respective e.g. American and European industry that knowingly sold out it's own interest and that of their countries aka people to make a fast buck and push stock prices during the respective term of CEO's and respective company owners. Western countries do not possess the political ability to control private industry directly such as e.g. China - and due to their stance, to privatize state held industries since the 90'ies, they even lost the remaining control.

However there are political tools such as declaring e.g. hightech goods or goods of national security - that then simply can't be sold or transferred. Biden implemented this severely during his term. Thus screwing up the chances for US companies to make a profit that in turn relies onto such profits to finance further and future development. Simply becasue there is no alternative market for the USA to compensate losses in the Chinese market. same goes for the EU.

You simply can't profit from e.g. China for 30 years - thus increasing the US GDP and maximizing US corporate profits, and then trying to cut down via tariffs without having an alternative market. So how many US$trillions did the USA and the EU spend since 1980 to develop markets and future markets in Africa, South-America and Asia? The EU focused foremost onto Russia, and is now sanctioning their own future market - great!!

The USA didn't develop markets at all - only exploiting third countries cheap labor and resources and franchising their brands - pure shortsighted capitalism. US companies solely came to China to profit from cheap labor - producing foremost for their own US market and existing market in e.g. the EU. They never managed nor beheld a valid strategy to penetrate the Chinese market aka producing in China for China.

Several German industries manged to do just that - now they whine that China constitutes 30-70% of their overall business, because the idiotic German government has joint the US crusade against China - great!!

It is true that China doesn't posses a single super carrier (estimated costs for a new one in the USA around US$18 Billion) and that does NOT include maintenance and running costs!! MAGA's love to highlight this US military supremacy - and are now asking Europe to pay for it - via "unpaid NATO bills" bullshit.

China has spend an estimated US$ 1.5-2.0 Trillion onto it's Belt&road initiative (future markets) in the past 10 years - plus US$ Trillions into their own country, whilst the USA has spend about US$ 7 Trillion just alone onto it's war on terror !!!

Whilst the Democrats believe they can simply continue as ever before, however with less direct military involvement (and simply printing money for ever) - Trump babbles about unpaid NATO bills, and Make America Great Again.

There is no "national spirit" in the USA at all, neither in the EU - unlike e.g. China. Only "bla bla patriotism" beheld foremost by those who have absolutely no say in a "fake democracy" and additionally prefer to spend a 1000+ bucks onto some needless gun and ammo, (to live the American dream) whilst buying their daily goods at Walmart - provided by China, Vietnam, Brazil, Gambia, etc. etc. and cheering onto Trump.

BTW - around 400 million guns in the USA at approx. US$ 800 each - Americans spend around US$ 320 Billion on guns - wonder how many jobs those guns supply??

Gun industry: e.g. Smith&Wesson - revenue US$ 800 million in 2022 and 2200 employees
Automotive Industry: e.g. XXX drive system - revenue US$ 750 million and 3400 employees

So does the USA need to focus onto it's respective industry segments - or tell people, please buy more guns, and make people pay for tariffs?

 

[Nuthin' Fancy]

Don't believe your lying eyes/ears and trust in the good Lord Trumpy.

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