Trump Administration Caves: No Citizenship Question On 2020 Census

[Flopper]

Our President is considering using an executive order to add the citizenship question to the census.

What happens if Trump issues an EO demanding that the citizenship question be included? Who can stop him besides the USSC?
I'm hoping that Trump issues that EO today.

He's not going directly violate a Supreme Court Ruling. That's a good way to get impeached. By today, the administration was going formulate a response for the court changing their reasoning for the need for the question. If he get's a go from the court he will issue an order to add the question to the census.

This whole thing is so damn silly. Republicans are hoping that a sufficient number of illegal immigrants that they believe fill out census forms will not respond out of fear of the citizenship question thus giving them a means to reduce funding to some states and possibility reduce representation in the House. Of course this is a long shot since there are only about 11 million undocumented immigrants scatter all over the country and many of them have never returned census forms. Also, since most illegal immigrants are here on an expired visa, they will answer no to being a citizens and specify they are on a visa. The form does not collect visa numbers. If the goverment actually tried to take action based on the citizenship question, it would be back in the courts.

Since the census will not be mailed out till March 2020, the new president can make this question optional thus rendering it of no use except for statistical research. Even it all of the above goes as republicans hope, it could well backfire because there are districts controlled by republicans with a large Hispanic population.

 

[Flopper]

This is disgusting. NFW that question should be illegal. Whoever went to the USSC from Commerce should be shot. The DOJ should have argued the case.
Testimony provides damning evidence Trump administration lied about census citizenship question

Fact: citizenship data is already collected by the American Community Survey, which replaces the long form Census questionnaire.

Fact: citizenship questions discourage a significant number of people from responding.

Fact: it is a constitutional duty to accurately count the entire population for representation purposes.

Conclusion: putting a citizenship question in the census is not necessary because that information is already collected by Census. Asking it would cause an inaccurate count, and intentionally trying for an inaccurate count is a violation of the constitution.

So the question is whether or not the intent was to gain an undercount of a certain segment of the population in violation of the Constitution.

Why do you think it should be included in the Census?

Do you realize that none of that is fact?

Questions do NOT discourage legal citizens from answering the question.

It is a constitutional duty to count the CITIZENS of the united states for congressional representation.

The Trump administration has admitted in court that adding the question would reduce response rates.

congressional representation is based upon the WHOLE number of people, not just citizens. Do try and keep up

Of course, it would. People harboring illegals, or illegals themselves would not respond to that question.

Pretty much a no-brainer there.

The whole point of the question is to ACCURATELY determine the number of Citizens in this country so that congressional seats can be apportioned, and funds allocated.

Even though I disagree with the later, it is NOT the responsibility of the Federal Government to disperse taxes to the states, they do it and until such time as we get people of principle and morals, they'll continue to do it.

The whole purpose of the democrats taking this to court is that they do not want to lose congressional seats by an overrepresentation of the population.

Many families of illegal immigrant don't respond to censuses, even when census workers go to their home. In fact, they don't respond to most anything else they get from the government. People that live in foreign countries who have no interest in citizenship pay little attention to the goverment unless it directly effects them. Things that come in the mail such as censuses, political stuff, election information, notices of public meetings, etc go right in the trash.

Although there is a fine for refusing to return a census, no one has been prosecuted for violation since 1970.

 

[Darkwind]

This is disgusting. NFW that question should be illegal. Whoever went to the USSC from Commerce should be shot. The DOJ should have argued the case.
Testimony provides damning evidence Trump administration lied about census citizenship question

Fact: citizenship data is already collected by the American Community Survey, which replaces the long form Census questionnaire.

Fact: citizenship questions discourage a significant number of people from responding.

Fact: it is a constitutional duty to accurately count the entire population for representation purposes.

Conclusion: putting a citizenship question in the census is not necessary because that information is already collected by Census. Asking it would cause an inaccurate count, and intentionally trying for an inaccurate count is a violation of the constitution.

So the question is whether or not the intent was to gain an undercount of a certain segment of the population in violation of the Constitution.

Why do you think it should be included in the Census?

Do you realize that none of that is fact?

Questions do NOT discourage legal citizens from answering the question.

It is a constitutional duty to count the CITIZENS of the united states for congressional representation.

The Trump administration has admitted in court that adding the question would reduce response rates.

congressional representation is based upon the WHOLE number of people, not just citizens. Do try and keep up

Of course, it would. People harboring illegals, or illegals themselves would not respond to that question.

Pretty much a no-brainer there.

The whole point of the question is to ACCURATELY determine the number of Citizens in this country so that congressional seats can be apportioned, and funds allocated.

Even though I disagree with the later, it is NOT the responsibility of the Federal Government to disperse taxes to the states, they do it and until such time as we get people of principle and morals, they'll continue to do it.

The whole purpose of the democrats taking this to court is that they do not want to lose congressional seats by an overrepresentation of the population.

Most families of illegal immigrant don't respond to censuses, even when census workers go to their home. In fact, they don't respond to most anything else they get from the government. People that live in foreign countries who have no interest in citizenship pay little attention to the goverment unless it directly effects them. Things that come in the mail such as censuses, political stuff, election information, notices of public meetings, etc go right in the trash.

Which means that the argument against them filling it out is invalid as they wouldn't fill it out regardless.

 

[Flopper]

Fact: citizenship data is already collected by the American Community Survey, which replaces the long form Census questionnaire.

Fact: citizenship questions discourage a significant number of people from responding.

Fact: it is a constitutional duty to accurately count the entire population for representation purposes.

Conclusion: putting a citizenship question in the census is not necessary because that information is already collected by Census. Asking it would cause an inaccurate count, and intentionally trying for an inaccurate count is a violation of the constitution.

So the question is whether or not the intent was to gain an undercount of a certain segment of the population in violation of the Constitution.

Why do you think it should be included in the Census?

Do you realize that none of that is fact?

Questions do NOT discourage legal citizens from answering the question.

It is a constitutional duty to count the CITIZENS of the united states for congressional representation.

The Trump administration has admitted in court that adding the question would reduce response rates.

congressional representation is based upon the WHOLE number of people, not just citizens. Do try and keep up

Of course, it would. People harboring illegals, or illegals themselves would not respond to that question.

Pretty much a no-brainer there.

The whole point of the question is to ACCURATELY determine the number of Citizens in this country so that congressional seats can be apportioned, and funds allocated.

Even though I disagree with the later, it is NOT the responsibility of the Federal Government to disperse taxes to the states, they do it and until such time as we get people of principle and morals, they'll continue to do it.

The whole purpose of the democrats taking this to court is that they do not want to lose congressional seats by an overrepresentation of the population.

Most families of illegal immigrant don't respond to censuses, even when census workers go to their home. In fact, they don't respond to most anything else they get from the government. People that live in foreign countries who have no interest in citizenship pay little attention to the goverment unless it directly effects them. Things that come in the mail such as censuses, political stuff, election information, notices of public meetings, etc go right in the trash.

Which means that the argument against them filling it out is invalid as they wouldn't fill it out regardless.

Yes, that's what makes it so damn silly. However, there will be some that would have filled it out but seeing the citizen question will throw it in the trash.

The argument against the citizenship question is sound. The most important use of the survey is to determine representation in the House and distribution of federal funds which is determined by the total number of people counted, not citizens. Since the survey is by household, even one illegal immigrant in the family is likely to result in no reporting of that family thus under reporting the whole family, citizens and non-citizens. .

The justification Trump offered the courts for the citizenship question was to protect minority voters which 2 lower courts and the Supreme Count saw through and immediately rejected Trump's case. Using the citizenship question to frighten families into not completing the census is extortion.

Today, a federal judge in Maryland is moving forward with a case that claims the Trump administration intended to discriminate against immigrant communities of color by adding a citizenship question to the 2020 census. This should be interesting since his defense of the citizenship clause is full holes. It also just might open the possibility of an extortion charge against Trump.

 

[pinqy]

Fact: citizenship data is already collected by the American Community Survey, which replaces the long form Census questionnaire.

Fact: citizenship questions discourage a significant number of people from responding.

Fact: it is a constitutional duty to accurately count the entire population for representation purposes.

Conclusion: putting a citizenship question in the census is not necessary because that information is already collected by Census. Asking it would cause an inaccurate count, and intentionally trying for an inaccurate count is a violation of the constitution.

So the question is whether or not the intent was to gain an undercount of a certain segment of the population in violation of the Constitution.

Why do you think it should be included in the Census?

Do you realize that none of that is fact?

Questions do NOT discourage legal citizens from answering the question.

It is a constitutional duty to count the CITIZENS of the united states for congressional representation.

The Trump administration has admitted in court that adding the question would reduce response rates.

congressional representation is based upon the WHOLE number of people, not just citizens. Do try and keep up

Of course, it would. People harboring illegals, or illegals themselves would not respond to that question.

Pretty much a no-brainer there.

The whole point of the question is to ACCURATELY determine the number of Citizens in this country so that congressional seats can be apportioned, and funds allocated.

Even though I disagree with the later, it is NOT the responsibility of the Federal Government to disperse taxes to the states, they do it and until such time as we get people of principle and morals, they'll continue to do it.

The whole purpose of the democrats taking this to court is that they do not want to lose congressional seats by an overrepresentation of the population.

Most families of illegal immigrant don't respond to censuses, even when census workers go to their home. In fact, they don't respond to most anything else they get from the government. People that live in foreign countries who have no interest in citizenship pay little attention to the goverment unless it directly effects them. Things that come in the mail such as censuses, political stuff, election information, notices of public meetings, etc go right in the trash.

Which means that the argument against them filling it out is invalid as they wouldn't fill it out regardless.

Only if that were true for all. It is almost certainly not true that all illegal immigrants avoid the census.

 

[protectionist]

And as the migration occurs states like Texas become less and less red. What happens to the Repubs and the nation if Texas goes blue?

It becomes more and more ILLEGAL, IMMORAL, and less and less the actual USA. This needs to be averted. Trump will do that with an executive order.

 

[protectionist]

Only if that were true for all. It is almost certainly not true that all illegal immigrants avoid the census.

Oh yeah. Illegal aliens love calling attention to themselves as illegals.

 

[protectionist]

Yes, that's what makes it so damn silly. However, there will be some that would have filled it out but seeing the citizen question will throw it in the trash.

The argument against the citizenship question is sound. The most important use of the survey is to determine representation in the House and distribution of federal funds which is determined by the total number of people counted, not citizens. Since the survey is by household, even one illegal immigrant in the family is likely to result in no reporting of that family thus under reporting the whole family, citizens and non-citizens. .

The justification Trump offered the courts for the citizenship question was to protect minority voters which 2 lower courts and the Supreme Count saw through and immediately rejected Trump's case. Using the citizenship question to frighten families into not completing the census is extortion.

Today, a federal judge in Maryland is moving forward with a case that claims the Trump administration intended to discriminate against immigrant communities of color by adding a citizenship question to the 2020 census. This should be interesting since his defense of the citizenship clause is full holes. It also just might open the possibility of an extortion charge against Trump.

FALSE! The Constitution refers to CITIZENS, as it should.

Illegal aliens should not complete census forms, since they are part of Mexico (et al countries) not the US. The congress is a congress to represent the American people, not people of Mexico.

 

[protectionist]

This whole thing is so damn silly. Republicans are hoping that a sufficient number of illegal immigrants that they believe fill out census forms will not respond out of fear of the citizenship question thus giving them a means to reduce funding to some states and possibility reduce representation in the House. Of course this is a long shot since there are only about 11 million undocumented immigrants scatter all over the country and many of them have never returned census forms. Also, since most illegal immigrants are here on an expired visa, they will answer no to being a citizens and specify they are on a visa. The form does not collect visa numbers. If the goverment actually tried to take action based on the citizenship question, it would be back in the courts.

Since the census will not be mailed out till March 2020, the new president can make this question optional thus rendering it of no use except for statistical research. Even it all of the above goes as republicans hope, it could well backfire because there are districts controlled by republicans with a large Hispanic population.

There are 30-40 million illegal aliens in the US, and even that might be an underestimate.

 

[pinqy]

Only if that were true for all. It is almost certainly not true that all illegal immigrants avoid the census.

Oh yeah. Illegal aliens love calling attention to themselves as illegals.

How would they be calling attention to theme selves? No one is proposing asking legal status, just citizenship.

No, it’s not rational for illegals to avoid the census, but people aren’t always rational

 

[protectionist]

How would they be calling attention to theme selves? No one is proposing asking legal status, just citizenship.

No, it’s not rational for illegals to avoid the census, but people aren’t always rational

It's rational from their standpoint. They don't want to be caught and deported. Duh!

Illegals would be calling attention to themselves by answering a census questionnaire, just by showing up for it. They prefer to live in the shadows. Th idea of illegal aliens filling out census forms is preposterous. People who have left their families, trekked thousands of miles, and broken US laws to get here, don't have much incentive to fill out questionairres from the same US government whose laws they broke, and who are in a position to deport them, while their presence here is illegitimate.

This is why estimates of illegal alien population in the US by Pew Research, Center for Immigration Studies, DHS, Urban Institute, and the Current Population Survey are all identically wrong. Because they all use the same faulty census data. All come up with the same ridiculous wrong "conclusion" of about 11 million.

The Bear Stearns report of 2005, although now dated back almost 15 years, stills points out the flaws of the census counts. Bear Stearns used remittances from the US to Mexico as a gauge. These are electronic money transfers recorded by a nation's central bank - not surveys of people who don't want to answer surveys.

The report found that while the # of Mexicans living in the US (almost all of them illegal) was supposed to have increased 56% from 1995 to 2003, US to Mexico remittances grew by almost 200% (even as the median wage increased by only 10%). The Bear-Stearns report also examined housing permit growth, as well as growth in school enrollments in various immigrant enclaves.

According to the census, population growth of Brunswick, Elizabeth, and Newark, New Jersey combined was a mere 5.6% between 1990 and 2003. But housing permits in these immigrant communities grew by 600%, and 80% of these permits were for multiple dwellings. The Bear Stearns estimate came to a clear minimum of 20 million, and that was back in 2005.

 

[pinqy]

How would they be calling attention to theme selves? No one is proposing asking legal status, just citizenship.

No, it’s not rational for illegals to avoid the census, but people aren’t always rational

It's rational from their standpoint. They don't want to be caught and deported. Duh!

Since answering the census would not reveal their immigration status and since no one at Census could legally report them, it’s not rational.

 

[protectionist]

Since answering the census would not reveal their immigration status and since no one at Census could legally report them, it’s not rational.

What a dumb post. It could easily reveal their immigration status. That's why they don't answer the surveys. DUH!!!!

 

[pinqy]

Since answering the census would not reveal their immigration status and since no one at Census could legally report them, it’s not rational.

What a dumb post. It could easily reveal their immigration status. That's why they don't answer the surveys. DUH!!!!

How? Are you a U.S. citizen? Where were you born. Nothing about immigration status. And even if there was, it is a crime for any census worker to reveal personal information about a respondent.

 

[protectionist]

How? Are you a U.S. citizen? Where were you born. Nothing about immigration status. And even if there was, it is a crime for any census worker to reveal personal information about a respondent.

Another dumb post. Have you ever responded to a US Census questionnaire ? It sounds like you haven't. There are multitude of questions that can reveal illegal aliens' immigration status. Just one example is a question about addresses and jobs going back 5, 10, or 20 years. What are they going to say ? That they were just born here last year ?

And if you think that DHS and ICE will not have access to census information, I have a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you.

 

[pinqy]

How? Are you a U.S. citizen? Where were you born. Nothing about immigration status. And even if there was, it is a crime for any census worker to reveal personal information about a respondent.

Another dumb post. Have you ever responded to a US Census questionnaire ? It sounds like you haven't. There are multitude of questions that can reveal illegal aliens' immigration status. Just one example is a question about addresses and jobs going back 5, 10, or 20 years. What are they going to say ? That they were just born here last year ?

And if you think that DHS and ICE will not have access to census information, I have a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you.

I know for a fact DHS and ICE cannot have access to Non-public census data. The census has refused FBI warrants and the courts upheld them. 44 USC 4501
“SEC. 513. FINES AND PENALTIES.
Whoever, being an officer, employee, or agent of an agency acquiring information for exclusively statistical purposes, having taken and subscribed the oath of office, or having sworn to observe the limitations imposed by section 512, comes into possession of such information by reason of his or her being an officer, employee, or agent and, knowing that the disclosure of the specific information is prohibited under the provisions of this title, willfully discloses the information in any manner to a person or agency not entitled to receive it, shall be guilty of a class E felony and imprisoned for not more than 5 years, or fined not more than $250,000, or both.”

I’ve worked with the Census, and they obey the law.

 

[protectionist]

I know for a fact DHS and ICE cannot have access to Non-public census data. The census has refused FBI warrants and the courts upheld them. 44 USC 4501
“SEC. 513. FINES AND PENALTIES.
Whoever, being an officer, employee, or agent of an agency acquiring information for exclusively statistical purposes, having taken and subscribed the oath of office, or having sworn to observe the limitations imposed by section 512, comes into possession of such information by reason of his or her being an officer, employee, or agent and, knowing that the disclosure of the specific information is prohibited under the provisions of this title, willfully discloses the information in any manner to a person or agency not entitled to receive it, shall be guilty of a class E felony and imprisoned for not more than 5 years, or fined not more than $250,000, or both.”

I’ve worked with the Census, and they obey the law.

Maybe you've forgotten who the President of the United States is.

FOR SALE - $10,000

 

[Flopper]

Yes, that's what makes it so damn silly. However, there will be some that would have filled it out but seeing the citizen question will throw it in the trash.

The argument against the citizenship question is sound. The most important use of the survey is to determine representation in the House and distribution of federal funds which is determined by the total number of people counted, not citizens. Since the survey is by household, even one illegal immigrant in the family is likely to result in no reporting of that family thus under reporting the whole family, citizens and non-citizens. .

The justification Trump offered the courts for the citizenship question was to protect minority voters which 2 lower courts and the Supreme Count saw through and immediately rejected Trump's case. Using the citizenship question to frighten families into not completing the census is extortion.

Today, a federal judge in Maryland is moving forward with a case that claims the Trump administration intended to discriminate against immigrant communities of color by adding a citizenship question to the 2020 census. This should be interesting since his defense of the citizenship clause is full holes. It also just might open the possibility of an extortion charge against Trump.

FALSE! The Constitution refers to CITIZENS, as it should.

Illegal aliens should not complete census forms, since they are part of Mexico (et al countries) not the US. The congress is a congress to represent the American people, not people of Mexico.

Not so.
Article 1 Section 2 of the constitution.

The head of ever household is required to complete the census form regardless of citizenship, even those here on a tourist visa. You are subject to fine if you refuse to compete the survey. The census has nothing to do with citizenship. The purpose is to determine how many people live in every residence in the US.

The only purpose of the citizenship question is keep Hispanic households from completing the survey if they contain members that are undocumented thus yielding an inaccurate census.

 

[Flopper]

I know for a fact DHS and ICE cannot have access to Non-public census data. The census has refused FBI warrants and the courts upheld them. 44 USC 4501
“SEC. 513. FINES AND PENALTIES.
Whoever, being an officer, employee, or agent of an agency acquiring information for exclusively statistical purposes, having taken and subscribed the oath of office, or having sworn to observe the limitations imposed by section 512, comes into possession of such information by reason of his or her being an officer, employee, or agent and, knowing that the disclosure of the specific information is prohibited under the provisions of this title, willfully discloses the information in any manner to a person or agency not entitled to receive it, shall be guilty of a class E felony and imprisoned for not more than 5 years, or fined not more than $250,000, or both.”

I’ve worked with the Census, and they obey the law.

Maybe you've forgotten who the President of the United States is.

FOR SALE - $10,000

So that's Trump's newest scam.

 

[Harpy Eagle]

Another dumb post. Have you ever responded to a US Census questionnaire ? It sounds like you haven't. There are multitude of questions that can reveal illegal aliens' immigration status. Just one example is a question about addresses and jobs going back 5, 10, or 20 years. What are they going to say ? That they were just born here last year ?

And if you think that DHS and ICE will not have access to census information, I have a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you.

DHS and ICE do not have access to individual census information. This has been tested in the courts many times and never has any other agency been given the data. All they get is the same aggregate data everyone sees.