True Believers and True Belief

[DustyInfinity]

I went to church as a kid, and my family is Christian, but I'll admit I have not read the whole Bible. Recently, I spoke with a woman about faith and Christianity, and she was very clear and answered many questions I had. Towards the end, she spoke about how she was a true believer, and that those who have not absolutely accepted Christ will not go to Heaven. She said no amount of good deeds, no matter how pure a life lead would make a difference. How many people are absolutely sure in their faith? I've know true believers who think God tells them when to take out the trash, and when they are late for work, they will say God didn't wake them up. I'm not saying 'finding Christ' has to be anything like that, but I am curious about 'finding Christ' and what happens to agnostics, ect. This is personal for me, because my father led about a good a life as possible, but when he was dying of cancer, he was scared. I do not believe he was 100% sure that God was waiting for him. This is a man who never said a bad word about anyone and had a high sense of honor. Are good people doomed without 'true belief', 'absolute faith', and what exactly constitutes finding God?

 

[RodISHI]

I went to church as a kid, and my family is Christian, but I'll admit I have not read the whole Bible. Recently, I spoke with a woman about faith and Christianity, and she was very clear and answered many questions I had. Towards the end, she spoke about how she was a true believer, and that those who have not absolutely accepted Christ will not go to Heaven. She said no amount of good deeds, no matter how pure a life lead would make a difference. How many people are absolutely sure in their faith? I've know true believers who think God tells them when to take out the trash, and when they are late for work, they will say God didn't wake them up. I'm not saying 'finding Christ' has to be anything like that, but I am curious about 'finding Christ' and what happens to agnostics, ect. This is personal for me, because my father led about a good a life as possible, but when he was dying of cancer, he was scared. I do not believe he was 100% sure that God was waiting for him. This is a man who never said a bad word about anyone and had a high sense of honor. Are good people doomed without 'true belief', 'absolute faith', and what exactly constitutes finding God?

Dusty if you go to Genesis chapter two and keep in mind that it is the Lord whom made the living soul is the One and the same that put adam (human) into a deep sleep; hopefully this may help with your concerns. Preachers and layman alike have tried to justify why or how adam/human lives for 800+ years because many can only think in/with their own precepts. Jesus told them, 'there are those of you standing here today that will be here when I come again'. He also told them that they would be as the angels and angels come and go' and Jacob saw the angels coming and going. Life is a process of building up the spirit and growing; not only in the physical flesh we live in today but also in the spiritual realm.

Common sense should also help answer your query. If that blow of breath that created the living soul came from the eternal wouldn't the living soul have also been made as an eternal being?

My papa lived most of his life as an agnostic. Yet later in his days here he believed me when I testified to truth so I knew beyond a doubt he would be saved. That does not mean he would not suffer in the flesh before passing and I had to remind myself often in his last days here with all of the drugs docs had him on that the flesh here is what is given over but nothing more. A few days after papa's passing my husband Rod shared with me a night vision of seeing papa whisked through the desert to be caught up with the caravan of God's people leaving Egypt.

 

[Damaged Eagle]

A man arrived at the Pearly Gates where St Peter greeted him and took him on the grand tour. There were many wondrous things to see and people to meet. Then the man noticed a door and asked St Peter what was behind the door. St Peter took him over and opened the door and there were many people praying and singing Hallelujah. When the man asked St Peter who they were St Peter replied that they were all Methodists and they thought that they were the only ones in heaven.

*****CHUCKLE*****

 

[SweetSue92]

I went to church as a kid, and my family is Christian, but I'll admit I have not read the whole Bible. Recently, I spoke with a woman about faith and Christianity, and she was very clear and answered many questions I had. Towards the end, she spoke about how she was a true believer, and that those who have not absolutely accepted Christ will not go to Heaven. She said no amount of good deeds, no matter how pure a life lead would make a difference. How many people are absolutely sure in their faith? I've know true believers who think God tells them when to take out the trash, and when they are late for work, they will say God didn't wake them up. I'm not saying 'finding Christ' has to be anything like that, but I am curious about 'finding Christ' and what happens to agnostics, ect. This is personal for me, because my father led about a good a life as possible, but when he was dying of cancer, he was scared. I do not believe he was 100% sure that God was waiting for him. This is a man who never said a bad word about anyone and had a high sense of honor. Are good people doomed without 'true belief', 'absolute faith', and what exactly constitutes finding God?

Dusty,

You spoke to a woman who was saved, then, who was what we call "born again". What she was explaining to you was something hard to understand. Going to heaven is not actually about how "good" we are in this life. Keep reading--

I completely believe that your father was a good man here on earth. I hear that, I'm glad for you that you had that example, and I understand your grief that you lost him.

The problem is that we're leaving God out of that measurement. Because our own measurement is not the standard. God is the standard, and He is perfectly Holy. He is not just "good", He is HOLY--perfect and without sin entire. So the standard to be in His presence is that: perfect and without sin. Not just "good". Perfect and without sin. Remember this is how Adam was created before the Fall. After the Fall, we were doomed, actually. Sin had entered humanity and, without a way back, that was it for us.

But there is a way back, and you've already heard it--Jesus Christ. It is not our deeds, not our good works. Because no matter what good deeds we do, even a single stain of sin would make us unacceptable in the perfect presence of God's heaven. We must put on the Righteousness of Christ--we must accept His sacrifice for our sins. Then, the Bible says when God "looks" at us, He sees Christ. We are holy too. Our sins are washed away.

Lastly, it seems your father in the end was wrestling with these things, wrestling with faith. So it might be that he did accept in the end. I cannot know, and would never dare to say. That is for God to judge. Be well today.

 

[fncceo]

Excelsior! True believers!

 

[Meriweather]

Are good people doomed without 'true belief', 'absolute faith', and what exactly constitutes finding God?

For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that everyone who believes in him might not perish but might have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn* the world, but that the world might be saved through him. Whoever believes in him will not be condemned, but whoever does not believe has already been condemned, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God. And this is the verdict, that the light came into the world, but people preferred darkness to light, because their works were evil. For everyone who does wicked things hates the light and does not come toward the light, so that his works might not be exposed. But whoever lives the truth comes to the light, so that his works may be clearly seen as done in God. (John 3:16-21)

Those speaking modern English read “eternal” as “infinite” and “condemned” as “doomed to hell.” In early Jewish, Aramaic, and even Greek, these words take on different connotations. Eternal life isn’t merely a reference to a future life in heaven. It references a better quality of life in the present. “Condemned” also had a slightly different connotation. For example, if someone stole something they were sent to be “condemned” or as we might phrase it today, sent before a judge for a judgement on his punishment.

Paul writes that those who follow Christ are no longer under condemnation (i.e. judgement) because they have broken no law as they were released from that Law. Christians (those who are following Christ’s way of living) are no longer under judgement. They are forgiven. This does not mean there will not be consequences in this life and perhaps even the next for not living in the Ways of Christ. It doesn’t mean there won’t be a purification process which might well be painful.

In Paul’s mind, Jews will be judged because they chose to continue to live under the Law. Christians will not be judged as they should be truly following in Christ’s ways and footsteps. Paul also mentions those who have no belief. He says they will be judged by their own hearts.

Let’s return to what John was saying. He begins by talking about how much God loves the world. He sent His son into the world to bring light and show by example how to choose obedience rather than disobedience. Those who turn from light are condemned to live in darkness; those who turn from obedience are condemned to live in disobedience. An analogy: Those who choose to leave the house without a coat when it is freezing outside, have already condemned themselves to being cold--even before they take that first step out the door.

If I had chosen not to seek God and to follow Christ, I may not have been a bad person. On the other hand, nor would I have had the eternal life available to us here in the present. I would have missed out on many experiences. You say your dad, though agnostic, was a good man. My grandfather, an atheist, was also a good man. I won’t tell the story of how I know, but I did have an incredible experience after my grandfather’s death where I know he is not burning in hell.

God so loves the world. God is just. God is merciful. This does not mean He tolerates evil or those who choose darkness to do evil deeds. But those who chose light, who chose obedience, even though they couldn’t seem to believe in Christ (or did not seek him) I believe will be okay. They may have missed out on a better quality of (spiritual) life; they may have missed out on opportunities to know God in this life—but there is no reason to believe they will be enduring the flames of hell for an infinite eternity.

Just so you (and others) know, I have not made any of this up out of whole cloth. It is based on years of Bible study, studying languages of Biblical times, studying Biblical histories and cultures. It is based on an experience of God’s love. He truly loves us, and He cares.

 

[DustyInfinity]

Thank you very much for the replies. I'm don't really fear for my father, I feel that if there is an afterlife, he is in it. I'm more curious than anything. Do born again Christians think all the agnostics go to Hell, or do they believe in some sort of Purgatory? I don't want to malign the true believers too much, because my grandmother had unshakeable faith. She grew up when there were only two rules. Believe in God, and work hard. That was it. When she passed in her nineties, she was peaceful and had absolutely no fear. She also didn't run around condemning others and she let her kids read Harry Potter and go Trick or Treating. I am ignorant, but I still view myself as Christian. Though I'm sure I don't know anything, there are key elements to Christianity I disagree with. I guess I'm just spiritual.