Tort Reform Failure

Joe Steel

Class Warrior
Dec 11, 2009
1,052
97
83
St. Louis, MO
A dearly cherished myth of the anti-health care cult is tort reform. They steadfastly believe it to be the solution to the health care problem.

It isn't.

Tort reform doesn't work.

WASHINGTON, D.C. - Medical malpractice liability caps instituted in Texas in 2003 have failed to improve the state’s health care system, a Public Citizen report released today reveals.

These findings are crucial because the Texas experiment has been held up as a model by proponents of proposals now pending in Congress to limit patients’ rights. In spite of rhetoric to the contrary, the data show that the health care system in Texas has grown worse since 2003 by nearly every measure. For example:

• The percentage of uninsured people in Texas has increased, remaining the highest in the country with a quarter of Texans now uninsured;

• The cost of health insurance in the state has more than doubled;

• The cost of health care in Texas (measured by per patient Medicare reimbursements) has increased at nearly double the national average; and

• Spending increases for diagnostic testing (measured by per patient Medicare reimbursements) have far exceeded the national average.

Texas Experiment With Medical Liability Caps Has Failed
 
A dearly cherished myth of the anti-health care cult is tort reform. They steadfastly believe it to be the solution to the health care problem.

It isn't.

Tort reform doesn't work.

WASHINGTON, D.C. - Medical malpractice liability caps instituted in Texas in 2003 have failed to improve the state’s health care system, a Public Citizen report released today reveals.

These findings are crucial because the Texas experiment has been held up as a model by proponents of proposals now pending in Congress to limit patients’ rights. In spite of rhetoric to the contrary, the data show that the health care system in Texas has grown worse since 2003 by nearly every measure. For example:

• The percentage of uninsured people in Texas has increased, remaining the highest in the country with a quarter of Texans now uninsured;

• The cost of health insurance in the state has more than doubled;

• The cost of health care in Texas (measured by per patient Medicare reimbursements) has increased at nearly double the national average; and

• Spending increases for diagnostic testing (measured by per patient Medicare reimbursements) have far exceeded the national average.

Texas Experiment With Medical Liability Caps Has Failed

LOL Please explain PA. Thanks.
 
In 1993, the Office of Technology Assessment issued a report summarizing the first wave of studies on the experience of states that set limits on malpractice liability in the 1970s and 1980s. The report concluded that caps on damage awards consistently reduced the size of claims and, in turn, premium rates for malpractice insurance. Further, it found that limiting the use of joint-and-several liability, requiring awards to be offset by the value of collateral-source benefits, and reducing statutes of limitations for filing claims were also effective in slowing the growth of premiums.(10)

More-recent studies have reached similar conclusions. A 2003 study that examined state data from 1993 to 2002 found that two restrictions--a cap on noneconomic damages and a ban on punitive damages--would together reduce premiums by more than one-third (all other things being equal).(11) And based on its own research on the effects of tort restrictions, the Congressional Budget Office (CBO) estimated that the provisions of the Help Efficient, Accessible, Low-cost, Timely Healthcare (HEALTH) Act of 2003 (H.R. 5) would lower premiums nationwide by an average of 25 percent to 30 percent from the levels likely to occur under current law. (The savings in each state would depend in part on the restrictions already in effect there.)
Limiting Tort Liability for Medical Malpractice

As many in the healthcare debate like to cite the CBO as a the justification for the current mess of a bill that is being pawned off as reform , I thought that some would like to see exactly what the CBO had to say about tort reform.
 
In 1993, the Office of Technology Assessment issued a report summarizing the first wave of studies on the experience of states that set limits on malpractice liability in the 1970s and 1980s. The report concluded that caps on damage awards consistently reduced the size of claims and, in turn, premium rates for malpractice insurance.


Well of course the size of damage awards decreased. That was the whole point. And the recent study noted a slight decrease in premiums level.

So?

None of that had an effect on the health care problem. As the study noted:

• The percentage of uninsured people in Texas has increased, remaining the highest in the country with a quarter of Texans now uninsured;

• The cost of health insurance in the state has more than doubled;

• The cost of health care in Texas (measured by per patient Medicare reimbursements) has increased at nearly double the national average; and

• Spending increases for diagnostic testing (measured by per patient Medicare reimbursements) have far exceeded the national average.

Tort reform is not an effective policy for current health care problems. Who cares what premiums doctors pay.
 
Even insurance companies admit tort reform is scam:

Caps on damages for pain and suffering will significantly lower the awards paid to catastrophically injured patients. But because such truly severe cases make up a small percentage of medical malpractice claims, and because the portion of the medical liability premium dollar that pays for compensation is dwarfed by the portion that pays for defense lawyer fees, caps do not lead to lower premiums. Insurance companies and their lobbyists understand this – so don’t take our word for it, take theirs.

Premium on the Truth:

"Insurers never promised that tort reform would achieve specific savings." – American Insurance Association1

"We wouldn’t tell you or anyone that the reason to pass tort reform would be to reduce insurance rates." – Sherman Joyce, president of the American Tort Reform Association2

"Many tort reform advocates do not contend that restricting litigation will lower insurance rates, and I’ve never said that in 30 years." – Victor Schwartz, general counsel to the American Tort Reform Association3

Insurance Companies and Their Lobbyists Admit It:Caps on Damages Won’t Lower Insurance Premiums
 
What's your point?

Simple the tort reform in pa, has killed your premise, You may want to look into it.

Sum it up for me. Make an argument. A vague reference to something you think happened isn't enough. Show me.

Make an argument, there is no argument.

Pa introduced tort reform that reduced the number of lawsuits filed without a cap.

This was done by increasing the threshold on which a suit could be filed, I dont recall the exact percentage, But if memory serves it was 48.2 %

there are many ways to do this and still protect the trial lawyers if thats what you are concerned with.
 
Texas capped non-economic damages in 2003 as part of a broader tort-reform package, and since then, more than 16,500 doctors have flooded into Texas, many to previously underserved rural and minority communities. Texas has jumped six spots in the American Medical Association's ranking of doctors per capita. Nearly 430,000 Texans have health insurance today as a result of the medical liability reforms, says the Perryman Group.

Lawrence J. McQuillan: CBO Underestimates Benefits of Malpractice Reform - WSJ.com

Of course its an effective policy but when done so alone it's not, and you should care what a Doctor pays for malpractice insurance because it's passed on to you and your insrurance company in the form of the premiums you pay. Further it also has a direct effect on the number of Doctors in a given area. Want to know why some Doctors do not treat in particular fields of medicine or it's underserved, thats because the cost of having to pay malpractive insurance is so high it's not worth doing so. If you trust just tort reform as being the sole driver for a health reform policy it's not going to be very effective, but if you use it as a tool in an overall reform policy it can be very useful. You are aware that Texas has some of the highest numbers of rural underserved areas as well are you not? When you factored into your failure judgement, did you take into consideration that the rate in which some of these Doctors actually paid makes the practice in these rural areas not cost effective for them to do so, thus leading to them being underserved? I see this new attempt at dismissing tort reform as a way to support insurance companies and the legal mechanisms that drive them and it was my understanding that those on the left wanted to actually reform the insurance industry. if thats the case, then you cannot advocate for reforming health insurance without advocating reforming the high cost of malpractice insurance. One more thing, the current healthcare is an abject failure in this area , for the simple reason is it does none of those things, and it further aims to reward those same insurance companies with the mandated addition of several million new customers.
 
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Simple the tort reform in pa, has killed your premise, You may want to look into it.

Sum it up for me. Make an argument. A vague reference to something you think happened isn't enough. Show me.

Make an argument, there is no argument.

Pa introduced tort reform that reduced the number of lawsuits filed without a cap.

This was done by increasing the threshold on which a suit could be filed, I dont recall the exact percentage, But if memory serves it was 48.2 %

there are many ways to do this and still protect the trial lawyers if thats what you are concerned with.


Reducing the number of lawsuits is not health care reform.

Research shows that caps on pain and suffering are unfair to patients with the most severe injuries, to women, to elderly persons and to children. While caps reduce the amounts of payments to negligently injured patients, research does not support the proposition that caps reduce the liability insurance premiums of doctors.
(Chapter 6).

Medical Malpractice Litigation in Pennsylvania
 

By LAWRENCE J. MCQUILLAN

From Pacific Research Institute

...the Pacific Research Institute, is funded by companies like Altria (the largest tobacco company in the world, formerly Philip Morris), Exxon Mobil, Pfizer and PhRMA.

‘Tort reform’ not the answer for state’s fiscal crisis

The Wall Street Journal and Pacific Research Institute are not exactly a reliable sources.
 
I'm always astonished that anyone would question the need for, and the effectiveness of, tort reform....unless they are lawyers.....and malpractice insurers

Has anyone ever seen an ad on TV that solicites those that might have a medical malpractice suit?

Can anyone sympathise with the need for the medical profession to CYA with every conceivable test, proceedure, and document?

Can anyone simply add up the costs of these additional tests, procedures, and documentation and conclude that they add to health care costs?

This is simple, common sense, not rocket science.

Let's imagine, hypothetically, that it was impossible to sue a doctor.

Would doctors still have malpractice insurance? Of course not. Whould they order tests and procedures that are more often than not ineffective? No. Would they need to document every word they spoke, wrote, or implied to each and every member of a hospital staff? Ridiculous.

Could doctors offer lower cost services to attract patients, driving down their price of their services? Yes

Fucking common sense, of course, is pretty far outside the realm of Lawyers, and the politicians they own.
 

By LAWRENCE J. MCQUILLAN

From Pacific Research Institute

...the Pacific Research Institute, is funded by companies like Altria (the largest tobacco company in the world, formerly Philip Morris), Exxon Mobil, Pfizer and PhRMA.

‘Tort reform’ not the answer for state’s fiscal crisis

The Wall Street Journal and Pacific Research Institute are not exactly a reliable sources.

Those same companies and sources seem to be good enough when it comes to supporting things like, Oh say, cap and trade, and even this current healthcare bill. I find it interesting that you would call into question a connection the WSJ or for that matter the several companies listed when what was it, public-citizen I think it was your source on one of your articles who happens to support climate change legislation is on the same side as some of the sources your condmening now.
 
I'm always astonished that anyone would question the need for, and the effectiveness of, tort reform....unless they are lawyers.....and malpractice insurers

Has anyone ever seen an ad on TV that solicites those that might have a medical malpractice suit?

Can anyone sympathise with the need for the medical profession to CYA with every conceivable test, proceedure, and document?

Can anyone simply add up the costs of these additional tests, procedures, and documentation and conclude that they add to health care costs?

This is simple, common sense, not rocket science.

Let's imagine, hypothetically, that it was impossible to sue a doctor.

Would doctors still have malpractice insurance? Of course not. Whould they order tests and procedures that are more often than not ineffective? No. Would they need to document every word they spoke, wrote, or implied to each and every member of a hospital staff? Ridiculous.

Could doctors offer lower cost services to attract patients, driving down their price of their services? Yes

Fucking common sense, of course, is pretty far outside the realm of Lawyers, and the politicians they own.

Common sense it would seem to me in this matter Samson would be not to limit damages which by the way I am NOT for, but I am for a loser pays system, one which would discourage the number of so called ambulance chasers. If a client had a case that was not on solid ground then they would be discouraged from bringing the case because of the cost associated with it.

I can tell you on one of your questions, I see a LOT more commercials on TV from attorneys looking for clients to bring suit against Doctors than I do Doctors advocating their services.
 
I'm always astonished that anyone would question the need for, and the effectiveness of, tort reform....unless they are lawyers.....and malpractice insurers

Has anyone ever seen an ad on TV that solicites those that might have a medical malpractice suit?

Can anyone sympathise with the need for the medical profession to CYA with every conceivable test, proceedure, and document?

Can anyone simply add up the costs of these additional tests, procedures, and documentation and conclude that they add to health care costs?

This is simple, common sense, not rocket science.

Let's imagine, hypothetically, that it was impossible to sue a doctor.

Would doctors still have malpractice insurance? Of course not. Whould they order tests and procedures that are more often than not ineffective? No. Would they need to document every word they spoke, wrote, or implied to each and every member of a hospital staff? Ridiculous.

Could doctors offer lower cost services to attract patients, driving down their price of their services? Yes

Fucking common sense, of course, is pretty far outside the realm of Lawyers, and the politicians they own.

Seriously.

Is this a joke?

Are you seriously suggesting doctors would adopt safe medical practices if they couldn't be sued?
 
The Wall Street Journal and Pacific Research Institute are not exactly a reliable sources.

Those same companies and sources seem to be good enough when it comes to supporting things like, Oh say, cap and trade, and even this current healthcare bill. I find it interesting that you would call into question a connection the WSJ or for that matter the several companies listed when what was it, public-citizen I think it was your source on one of your articles who happens to support climate change legislation is on the same side as some of the sources your condmening now.

Are you saying the Wall Street Journal and Pacific Research Institute support "cap and trade?"
 
Common sense it would seem to me in this matter Samson would be not to limit damages which by the way I am NOT for, but I am for a loser pays system, one which would discourage the number of so called ambulance chasers. If a client had a case that was not on solid ground then they would be discouraged from bringing the case because of the cost associated with it.

I can tell you on one of your questions, I see a LOT more commercials on TV from attorneys looking for clients to bring suit against Doctors than I do Doctors advocating their services.

What would you do if you had a cause of action but no money?
 
I'm always astonished that anyone would question the need for, and the effectiveness of, tort reform....unless they are lawyers.....and malpractice insurers

Has anyone ever seen an ad on TV that solicites those that might have a medical malpractice suit?

Can anyone sympathise with the need for the medical profession to CYA with every conceivable test, proceedure, and document?

Can anyone simply add up the costs of these additional tests, procedures, and documentation and conclude that they add to health care costs?

This is simple, common sense, not rocket science.

Let's imagine, hypothetically, that it was impossible to sue a doctor.

Would doctors still have malpractice insurance? Of course not. Whould they order tests and procedures that are more often than not ineffective? No. Would they need to document every word they spoke, wrote, or implied to each and every member of a hospital staff? Ridiculous.

Could doctors offer lower cost services to attract patients, driving down their price of their services? Yes

Fucking common sense, of course, is pretty far outside the realm of Lawyers, and the politicians they own.

Have you ever studied economics?

Have you ever read anything but wingnut blogs?

Here's a little uncommon sense for you: costs don't drive prices. Markets drive prices.
 
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