Too Many Government Workers?

[Samson]

Yes we know, Government is just the right size for you Entitlement Moochers. What a surprise there. Hey, just heard Walmart is handing out Obama-Phones. Better hurry. Off ya go now. Bye.

What is your basis for determining the proper size of government?

Interesting question.

What is your answer?

Bump.


Or should I assume that your perfect size of government = the nation's entire population?

 

[nodoginnafight]

Federal Eye - How many federal workers are there?

We have less federal employees than we had under Reagan, yet the population had increased by 80 million. We have fewer federal employees per 1000 than at any time in modern history.

in 2009: 1.8 million civil servants, 870,000 postal workers, 1.4 million military personnel, 4.4 million contractors, and 2.5 million grantees.

2.5 million "grantees?"



Can you name one that I can call up and ask WTF they've done for me lately?

Nope - not specifically.

But the generalities are that these are people doing research or conducting other kinds of work for the government under grants.

I personally believe that a lot of it is worthwhile work - but contractors and grantees don't get counted in "government employee" counts and no one really even knows exactly how many there are.

But as so much work has shifted from government employees to government contractors, I think it is an important category to consider when discussing the government payroll.

this:
http://www.brookings.edu/research/opinions/2010/02/27-defense-regulations-singer
is an interesting read on the outsourcing of our military.

 

[nodoginnafight]

The number of government employees should be a function of THE NEED FOR GOVERNMENT SERVICES.

I disagree. I believe the correct number is the number we need and can afford without falling deeper into debt.

 

[Samson]

The number of government employees should be a function of THE NEED FOR GOVERNMENT SERVICES.

I disagree. I believe the correct number is the number we need and can afford without falling deeper into debt.

What determines "the number we need."


Answer: How much money Government can extract from Taxpayers?




Good for you.

 

[nodoginnafight]

The number of government employees should be a function of THE NEED FOR GOVERNMENT SERVICES.

I disagree. I believe the correct number is the number we need and can afford without falling deeper into debt.

What determines "the number we need."


Answer: How much money Government can extract from Taxpayers?




Good for you.

Absolutely not.
Not in my opinion anyway.
I believe we could cut 10% from every department - across the board - and if managed properly, no one would know the difference.
Have you been following my posts?
I've been advocating a reduced workforce. Are you suggesting now that I've been defending current levels or asking for more?

 

[Samson]

in 2009: 1.8 million civil servants, 870,000 postal workers, 1.4 million military personnel, 4.4 million contractors, and 2.5 million grantees.

2.5 million "grantees?"



Can you name one that I can call up and ask WTF they've done for me lately?

Nope - not specifically.

But the generalities are that these are people doing research or conducting other kinds of work for the government under grants.

I personally believe that a lot of it is worthwhile work - but contractors and grantees don't get counted in "government employee" counts and no one really even knows exactly how many there are.

But as so much work has shifted from government employees to government contractors, I think it is an important category to consider when discussing the government payroll.

this:
The Regulation of New Warfare | Brookings Institution
is an interesting read on the outsourcing of our military.

2.5 million people doing something you think is "worthwhile work" and you cannot identify a single one.




You are a great example of why the US Government gets away with their tax-and-spend pork-barrel fiscal policies.

 

[nodoginnafight]

2.5 million "grantees?"



Can you name one that I can call up and ask WTF they've done for me lately?

Nope - not specifically.

But the generalities are that these are people doing research or conducting other kinds of work for the government under grants.

I personally believe that a lot of it is worthwhile work - but contractors and grantees don't get counted in "government employee" counts and no one really even knows exactly how many there are.

But as so much work has shifted from government employees to government contractors, I think it is an important category to consider when discussing the government payroll.

this:
The Regulation of New Warfare | Brookings Institution
is an interesting read on the outsourcing of our military.

2.5 million people doing something you think is "worthwhile work" and you cannot identify a single one.




You are a great example of why the US Government gets away with their tax-and-spend pork-barrel fiscal policies.

Man, that's what you pick up on.
I spend page after page defending cuts in the government workforce
and because I can't come up with a name of someone doing cancer research, you wanna go all cutsey emoticon sarcastic on me?

Have a nice day

 

[nodoginnafight]

2.5 million "grantees?"



Can you name one that I can call up and ask WTF they've done for me lately?

Nope - not specifically.

But the generalities are that these are people doing research or conducting other kinds of work for the government under grants.

I personally believe that a lot of it is worthwhile work - but contractors and grantees don't get counted in "government employee" counts and no one really even knows exactly how many there are.

But as so much work has shifted from government employees to government contractors, I think it is an important category to consider when discussing the government payroll.

this:
The Regulation of New Warfare | Brookings Institution
is an interesting read on the outsourcing of our military.

2.5 million people doing something you think is "worthwhile work" and you cannot identify a single one.




You are a great example of why the US Government gets away with their tax-and-spend pork-barrel fiscal policies.

You are a great example of why so many consider people like you assholes.
You missed the boat completely - ignore 99.9% of what I've posted - and just try to latch onto something to insult me over.

 

[Samson]

You are a great example of why so many consider people like you assholes.
You missed the boat completely - ignore 99.9% of what I've posted - and just try to latch onto something to insult me over.

Get over it.

 

[Flopper]

In light of the current Government Shutdown, this is an interesting and important topic to discuss. We all know our Government has expanded to a previously unthinkable gargantuan status. With that, so many Millions of Americans are now employed by our Government. They are solely dependent on Taxpayers for their survival. Are there too many Government Workers now. Can this trend be reversed, or should it be?

I don't think you can significantly reduced the number employees without reducing services.

 

[Samson]

In light of the current Government Shutdown, this is an interesting and important topic to discuss. We all know our Government has expanded to a previously unthinkable gargantuan status. With that, so many Millions of Americans are now employed by our Government. They are solely dependent on Taxpayers for their survival. Are there too many Government Workers now. Can this trend be reversed, or should it be?

I don't think you can significantly reduced the number employees without reducing services.

Bartender
You can apply for this position using the following options (you must have a resume or use the NAF Optional Application http://armypubs.army.mil/eforms/pureEdge/A3433.XFDL to apply): 1. Preferred - Apply electronically via USAJOBS - https://usajobs.gov/ . This will ensure faster processing of your a

Department: Department of the Army
Agency: Army Installation Management Command
Open Period: 10/17/2013 to 10/24/2013
Who May Apply: US Citizens and Non Citizens
Location(s): McAlester, Oklahoma
Salary: $8.90 - $10.37 / Per Hour
Series & Grade: NA-7405-03/03
Position Info: Intermittent - Intermittent
Control Number: 353514400
JOA Number: SWNAFDN13979161


Bartender
You can apply for this position using the following options (you must have a resume or use the NAF Optional Application http://armypubs.army.mil/eforms/pureEdge/A3433.XFDL to apply): 1. Preferred - Apply electronically via USAJOBS - https://usajobs.gov . This will ensure faster processing of your ap

Department: Department of the Army
Agency: Field Operating Offices of the Office of the Secretary of the Army
Open Period: 10/9/2013 to 10/18/2013
Who May Apply: US Citizens and Non Citizens
Location(s): Fort Lee, Virginia


Bartender
Sets up bars for operation, obtains cash bank and stocks service bar. Assures an adequate stock level is maintained, sets up storeroom and work area to permit easy access to stock items. Prepares a limited variety of simple alcoholic beverages as requested by patrons and wait staff. Records sales an

Department: Department of the Army
Agency: Army Installation Management Command
Open Period: 10/2/2013 to 10/25/2013
Who May Apply: US Citizens currently residing within the commuting area of Brussels, Belgium (n...
Location(s): Brussels, Belgium

Bartender You can apply for this position using the following options (you must have a resume or use the NAF Optional Application http://armypubs.army.mil/eforms/pureEdge/A3433.XFDL to apply): 1. Preferred - Apply electronically via USAJOBS - https://usajobs.gov . This will ensure faster processing of your ap

Department: Department of the Army
Agency: Army Installation Management Command
Open Period: 10/12/2013 to 10/21/2013
Who May Apply: US Citizens and Non Citizens
Location(s): Fort Leonard Wood, Missouri
Salary: $9.57 - $9.57 / Per Hour
Series & Grade: NA-7405-03/03
Position Info: Intermittent - Intermittent
Control Number: 353287100
JOA Number: SWNAFKA13976831

 

[ScienceRocks]

Government is good as long as it does good things.
-Government paves our streets
-Government fights the fire
-Government teaches most of our children
-Government protects us from other countries

Government is of the people. Sure we have to check and balance it but government is mostly good.

You people that want to go back to the 18th century are nuts.

 

[Samson]

Bartender
This position is located at the Fort Carson Elkhorn Conference Center. The Elkhorn provides professional planning and catering for a variety of conference, meetings, weddings, luncheons and other formal and informal functions. This position is Flexible (0-39 hours per week) and may be irregularly sc

Department: Department of the Army
Agency: Army Installation Management Command
Open Period: 6/25/2013 to 12/31/2013
Who May Apply: US Citizens and Non Citizens
Location(s): Fort Carson, Colorado
Salary: $9.27 - $9.27 / Per Hour
Series & Grade: NA-7405-03/03
Position Info: Intermittent 00 hours - Intermittent
Control Number: 346362000
JOA Number: SWNAFEI13916449SR

Bartender
You can apply for this position using the following options (you must have a resume or use the NAF Optional Application http://armypubs.army.mil/eforms/pureEdge/A3433.XFDL to apply): 1. Preferred - Apply electronically via USAJOBS - https://usajobs.gov . This will ensure faster processing of your ap

Department: Department of the Army
Agency: Miscellaneous Field Operating Agencies
Open Period: 10/3/2013 to 1/3/2014
Who May Apply: US Citizens and Non Citizens
Location(s): Fort Irwin, California
Salary: $10.07 - $11.76 / Per Hour
Series & Grade: NA-7405-03/03
Position Info: Intermittent 00 hours - Intermittent
Control Number: 352736500
JOA Number: WENAFET13971293

Bartender
You can apply for this position using the following options (you must have a resume or use the NAF Optional Application http://armypubs.army.mil/eforms/pureEdge/A3433.XFDL to apply): 1. Preferred - Apply electronically via USAJOBS - https://usajobs.gov . This will ensure faster processing of your ap

Department: Department of the Army
Agency: Army Installation Management Command
Open Period: 9/20/2013 to 12/31/2013
Who May Apply: US Citizens and Non Citizens
Location(s): West Point, New York
Salary: $10.63 - $12.39 / Per Hour
Series & Grade: NA-7405-03/03
Position Info: Intermittent - Intermittent
Control Number: 351330400
JOA Number: NENAFBR13959158

 

[Harry Dresden]

See Rightwinger's helpful link within post #24.



I know it asks alot of you to read and analyze data, so I'll explain it to you:

Military Government workers are far fewer today than in the past 50 years. If any portion of government has decreased employees, it is the military.

the PO has cut 300,000 since 99....they have to be up there too...

Sorry Harry, I missed your reply, and I always like to respond to your commentary, particularly when they involve USPS.

As military employees have been reduced as a result of the end of the cold war (or if you prefer, regardless of the lack of evidence, their replacement with civilian contractors), IUSPS have been reduced as their services simply are in less demand (e.g. email has displaced the need for letters, and UPS and FedEx offer competitive advantages to USPS).

Or, maybe the USPS has hired a bunch of civilian contractors, as everyone seems to believe the military has done.

At any rate, the point that the number of government employees might be a completely independent function of the total population seem to overwhelm the mental capacity of your average cheese-muncher.

The number of government employees should be a function of THE NEED FOR GOVERNMENT SERVICES.

If any portion of government has decreased employees, it is the military

thats all i was replying to Sam.....it doesnt matter the reason why......they still shed 300,000 people.....


The number of government employees should be a function of THE NEED FOR GOVERNMENT SERVICES.

since the PO has to deliver EVERYWHERE....just last year alone 654,560 — new delivery points were added to the network ......now how many in the last 10 years were added?......they had 139.4 million delivery points in 2002 and 152.1 Million in 2012 and yet they have shed carriers and when i was still there they hadnt hired anyone since 2007....some guys were delivering a route and a half.....a good 10 hours a day for most of them.....so they needed more Carriers but were not hiring but yet they were shelling out all kinds of OT....... but yet they were packed with Managers.....many doing.....well some we dont know what they did.....but they were making good money for whatever they were doing.....

 

[Jarlaxle]

This is why we need an adult running the Executive Branch of government: To make the hard decisions like who goes.

Of course, when you can print your own money, who needs to make tough choices?

What a thought. Rather than brining up a few that sound like they are too important, actually have some people up there making those decisions and making real cuts is the answer.

Unfortunately, NO ONE in government today is capable of making a decision harder than what they are going to have for lunch.

On second thought, we had better have an aid accomplish that…

"the people are responsible for the character of their Congress. If that body be ignorant, reckless and corrupt, it is because the people tolerate ignorance, recklessness and corruption."


-Thomas Paine

It's tough when they have had 50+ years of uninterrupted power to gerrymander things so they are unassailable. It's even tougher when the voters are so fuckin' STUPID that they re-elect people like "Johnny Pockets" Tierney! Voting should require an IQ test.

 

[Harry Dresden]

What a thought. Rather than brining up a few that sound like they are too important, actually have some people up there making those decisions and making real cuts is the answer.

Unfortunately, NO ONE in government today is capable of making a decision harder than what they are going to have for lunch.

On second thought, we had better have an aid accomplish that…

"the people are responsible for the character of their Congress. If that body be ignorant, reckless and corrupt, it is because the people tolerate ignorance, recklessness and corruption."


-Thomas Paine

It's tough when they have had 50+ years of uninterrupted power to gerrymander things so they are unassailable. It's even tougher when the voters are so fuckin' STUPID that they re-elect people like "Johnny Pockets" Tierney! Voting should require an IQ test.

even smart people vote for the same asshole over and over....remember....its your Rep who is the problem...mine does his job....

 

[Jarlaxle]

No, my rep is a waste of oxygen. He is a gross ignoramus. That is: he is 144 times as bad as an ORDINARY ignoramus.

 

[Flopper]

the PO has cut 300,000 since 99....they have to be up there too...

I just don't see much growth in the federal workforce in the last 50 years. Most agencies have gotten leaner and more efficient. The population of the US has almost doubled and our Federal Workforce has maintained the same strength

There are fewer federal workers under Obama than there were under Reagan

More Conservative mythmaking about bloated government

Federal Government Employment Levels Through the Years (including the U.S. Postal Service)
Executive Branch civilians Total U.S. population Executive Branch employees per 1,000 population
1962 (Kennedy) 2.48 million 186.5 million 13.3
1964 (Johnson) 2.47 million 191.8 million 12.9
1970 (Nixon) 2.94 million* 205 million 14.4
1975 (Ford) 2.84 million 215.9 million 13.2
1978 (Carter) 2.87 million 222.5 million 12.9
1982 (Reagan) 2.77 million 232.1 million 11.9
1990 (Bush) 3.06 million* 249.6 million 12.3
1994 (Clinton) 2.9 million 263.1 million 11.1
2002 (Bush) 2.63 million 287.8 million 9.1
2010 (Obama) 2.65 million+ 310.3 million+ 8.4+
SOURCE: Office of Management and Budget. *= Figure includes temporary Census Bureau workers. += Estimates by OMB and U.S. Census Bureau.

Researcher Eric Yoder contributed to this report.

Federal Eye - How many federal workers are there?

We have less federal employees than we had under Reagan, yet the population had increased by 80 million. We have fewer federal employees per 1000 than at any time in modern history.

Congress determines the need for a service, passes legislation and budget funds for that service. The administration determines the number of employees needed to perform the service. It's not the number of employees that's important. It's value and the cost of the service that's important.

 

[Harry Dresden]

No, my rep is a waste of oxygen. He is a gross ignoramus. That is: he is 144 times as bad as an ORDINARY ignoramus.

thats what i said.....its your rep.....

 

[WorldWatcher]

Bartender
This position is located at the Fort Carson Elkhorn Conference Center. The Elkhorn provides professional planning and catering for a variety of conference, meetings, weddings, luncheons and other formal and informal functions. This position is Flexible (0-39 hours per week) and may be irregularly sc

Department: Department of the Army
Agency: Army Installation Management Command
Open Period: 6/25/2013 to 12/31/2013
Who May Apply: US Citizens and Non Citizens
Location(s): Fort Carson, Colorado
Salary: $9.27 - $9.27 / Per Hour
Series & Grade: NA-7405-03/03
Position Info: Intermittent 00 hours - Intermittent
Control Number: 346362000
JOA Number: SWNAFEI13916449SR

Bartender
You can apply for this position using the following options (you must have a resume or use the NAF Optional Application http://armypubs.army.mil/eforms/pureEdge/A3433.XFDL to apply): 1. Preferred - Apply electronically via USAJOBS - https://usajobs.gov . This will ensure faster processing of your ap

Department: Department of the Army
Agency: Miscellaneous Field Operating Agencies
Open Period: 10/3/2013 to 1/3/2014
Who May Apply: US Citizens and Non Citizens
Location(s): Fort Irwin, California
Salary: $10.07 - $11.76 / Per Hour
Series & Grade: NA-7405-03/03
Position Info: Intermittent 00 hours - Intermittent
Control Number: 352736500
JOA Number: WENAFET13971293

Bartender
You can apply for this position using the following options (you must have a resume or use the NAF Optional Application http://armypubs.army.mil/eforms/pureEdge/A3433.XFDL to apply): 1. Preferred - Apply electronically via USAJOBS - https://usajobs.gov . This will ensure faster processing of your ap

Department: Department of the Army
Agency: Army Installation Management Command
Open Period: 9/20/2013 to 12/31/2013
Who May Apply: US Citizens and Non Citizens
Location(s): West Point, New York
Salary: $10.63 - $12.39 / Per Hour
Series & Grade: NA-7405-03/03
Position Info: Intermittent - Intermittent
Control Number: 351330400
JOA Number: NENAFBR13959158

IIRC, you will notice that the "Series & Grade" for these positions is an "NA" which means they are MWR (Morale, Welfare, and Recreation) position funded through "Non Appropriated Funds". These position aren't paid with "Appropriated" funds (i.e. tax dollars), they are paid with the revenue generated by their activities.

Bartenders (and waitresses[ors), cooks, managers, cleaning staff, etc.) are employed by clubs for enlisted and officers - they are funded through revenue raised by the club. Bartenders sell drinks. The price of the drinks is set by Material Costs + Labor Costs + Overhead + "Profit" **. Just like in the civilian world activity (in this case the club) must be a "Profit"** making operation and not funded through tax dollars.

Just a technical correction as to the idea that just because the Army MWR employes "bartenders" that those people are paid with tax dollars. They aren't they are paid (and their benefits) are funded trough purchases made by the payments of the patrons.


**"Profit" is in quotes because clubs don't really make a "profit" in the regular sense. They do though, typically, generate MORE revenue then they take to operate. This "profit" then is used in the total MWR program to help fund other activities for the troops.



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