To draft or not to draft

[Annie]

Originally posted by brneyedgrl80
Not at all. I agree with you that the lower class or poor should not be the ones automatically joining the military (though often times that is the case).

I just feel that people (including lower class because let's be honest with ourselves, not just upper and middle class kids are going to college) who are going to college should not have that disrupted because they are already doing a service for our country by bettering themselves and by wanting to achieve more through education.

I currently go to community college to get all my GED's out of the way for a cheaper price than at a university and pay for the courses, books and supplies myself along with any costs that my vehicle may incur taking me to and from school and I would consider myself and my family somewhere around lower middle class to upper lower class. And I know personally that I would not want to be taken out school when I am trying to do something for myself and my family by educating myself.

If I wanted to gain something from the military, I would have joined a long time ago, but for me, the military is something I just don't want to be a part of. It is not the career or job path I wish to take considering that currently I have an option other job/career paths right now. And even if I didn't have an option, the military still would not be the right choice for me.

There is nothing wrong with the people who choose to join out of their free will, but it shouldn't be a forced issue.

If anything, maybe that should tell the country/government something, if people are not enlisting in high numbers anymore. I'm assuming that is what the problem is or else a draft wouldn't be a consideration.

Perhaps my memory is faulty, thought you were Canadian. Whatever, here in the US draft means just that. You get chosen, you go. Vietnam was the very bad exception and harmed the country majorly for nearly 30 years. I am well aware of early provisos to pay for someone to take your place. Whatever.

 

[freeandfun1]

Originally posted by brneyedgrl80
Not at all. I agree with you that the lower class or poor should not be the ones automatically joining the military (though often times that is the case).

I just feel that people (including lower class because let's be honest with ourselves, not just upper and middle class kids are going to college) who are going to college should not have that disrupted because they are already doing a service for our country by bettering themselves and by wanting to achieve more through education.

I currently go to community college to get all my GED's out of the way for a cheaper price than at a university and pay for the courses, books and supplies myself along with any costs that my vehicle may incur taking me to and from school and I would consider myself and my family somewhere around lower middle class to upper lower class. And I know personally that I would not want to be taken out school when I am trying to do something for myself and my family by educating myself.

If I wanted to gain something from the military, I would have joined a long time ago, but for me, the military is something I just don't want to be a part of. It is not the career or job path I wish to take considering that currently I have an option other job/career paths right now. And even if I didn't have an option, the military still would not be the right choice for me.

There is nothing wrong with the people who choose to join out of their free will, but it shouldn't be a forced issue.

If anything, maybe that should tell the country/government something, if people are not enlisting in high numbers anymore. I'm assuming that is what the problem is or else a draft wouldn't be a consideration.

by following your thought process, we will create a warior class of citizens. you do realize that? By not making all Americans provide for the defense of this nation, the military will be become even more and more separated from the rest of society. Higher wages will have to be paid to attract certain types of individuals into the military. This will create a military class of citizenry. This is not the right thing to do so therefore, each person that considers themselves an American, should be willing to contribute a portion of their life to the DEFENSE of their nation. Not just to the opposition of it in the name of self-righteousness.

 

[brneyedgrl80]

Is that how you would classify America as it stands currently? As warrior class and non-warrior class because currently, not everyone is in the military or has military background. Just going by what you are insinuating.

Again, I believe it better to be left as a volunteer basis. It has worked well in the past that way.

 

[Annie]

Originally posted by brneyedgrl80
Is that how you would classify America as it stands currently? As warrior class and non-warrior class because currently, not everyone is in the military or has military background. Just going by what you are insinuating.

Again, I believe it better to be left as a volunteer basis. It has worked well in the past that way.

Where are you spinning off to now? You brought up the draft, now go back to volunteer? I'm beginning to remember why I was not responding to your posts.

 

[brneyedgrl80]

Originally posted by Kathianne
Where are you spinning off to now? You brought up the draft, now go back to volunteer? I'm beginning to remember why I was not responding to your posts.

Before accusing me of "spinning off" try reading the post above mine by freeandfun1 who I was responding to.

by following your thought process, we will create a warior class of citizens. you do realize that? By not making all Americans provide for the defense of this nation, the military will be become even more and more separated from the rest of society. Higher wages will have to be paid to attract certain types of individuals into the military. This will create a military class of citizenry. This is not the right thing to do so therefore, each person that considers themselves an American, should be willing to contribute a portion of their life to the DEFENSE of their nation. Not just to the opposition of it in the name of self-righteousness.

Maybe the quote will help. Now please stop trying to hurt my feelings by saying you remember why you don't reply to my posts.

Also, the draft and volunteering go together. I believe that no one should be forced to join the military, in other words agains the draft. I believe that people should have the right to choose whether or not they want to be in the military a.k.a. volunteering.

If you are not being forced to do something, but choose to do something out of your own free will, that is known as volunteering.

I cannot break it down in simplier than that on how the draft and volunteering relate to each other.

 

[Annie]

Originally posted by brneyedgrl80
Before of accusing me of "spinning off" try reading the post above mine by freeandfun1 who I was responding to.



Maybe the quote will help. Now please stop trying to hurt my feelings by saying you remember why you don't reply to my posts.

I was in no way trying to 'hurt your feelings' if I did, I apologize. It's the circular thinking that is getting to me, now and in the past. I do hear where you are coming from, I 'feel your pain' but my only response, sorry, is 'to suck it up.' Whether you or I like it we are on the forefront and have been for nearly 100 years now. Euros aren't though they are on the battlefield, being more vunerable by choice and circumstance.

 

[MJDuncan1982]

Good point Brown Eyed. I never thought about having to relearn everything that was taught after military service. However, we could just require everyone to join the military from their 18th to their 21th and you can't go to college without serving that time. That would only push everyone back three years but might do a lot of good. Would be nice to eliminate the stereotypical under 21 bars.

 

[brneyedgrl80]

I see where you are coming from though I respectfully disagree. I apologize now and in advance if I do not make myself clear at times (I usually post while I'm at work, so I'm kinda jumping back and forth between screens.)

Well if worse comes to worse and the draft occurs I'm officially a lesbian! lol :

 

[brneyedgrl80]

Originally posted by MJDuncan1982
Good point Brown Eyed. I never thought about having to relearn everything that was taught after military service. However, we could just require everyone to join the military from their 18th to their 21th and you can't go to college without serving that time. That would only push everyone back three years but might do a lot of good. Would be nice to eliminate the stereotypical under 21 bars.

That's very true! That would definitely be better than yanking students our of school unless the military was willing to reimburst the students or parents, lol.

 

[Annie]

Originally posted by brneyedgrl80
That's very true! That would definitely be better than yanking students our of school unless the military was willing to reimburst the students or parents, lol.

Not trying to lay blame, but this smacks of elitism. Sorry but it's my take. Let the least educated die!

 

[freeandfun1]

Originally posted by brneyedgrl80
Is that how you would classify America as it stands currently? As warrior class and non-warrior class because currently, not everyone is in the military or has military background. Just going by what you are insinuating.

Again, I believe it better to be left as a volunteer basis. It has worked well in the past that way.

what I am saying is that if we leave it up to volunteers, that is the classes you are going to end up with. Dilution is the best method for keeping people equal. If we start creating different classes of society, we are asking for trouble. just my opinion.

 

[dilloduck]

I'm sure if this ever occurs it would be phased in an no one would be "Yanked" out of school. The military gives some people more education than they could have ever dreamed of were it not for thier enlistment .
College used to be a good dodge to not be drafted. Now it is used by many to dodge real life.

You accept the freedoms and even criticize our country for it's actions yet feel no obligation to something for it other than pay taxes?

 

[freeandfun1]

Originally posted by brneyedgrl80
That's very true! That would definitely be better than yanking students our of school unless the military was willing to reimburst the students or parents, lol.

In Korea, you get out of high school, go to university two years, go military for two years (was three) and then finish your last two years. (now days the scenario varies a bit, but that is the jist of the system).

A system such as that would be good for America. I think it would force EVERYBODY to have a more open mind about life and the world. The military offers people that have only been around one "class" of people, to learn about others from the point of view as an equal and not as from an outsider, coming in to do good but going home to sleep in your plush bed at night. It puts the various people of this nation, even if only for a short time, on an equal basis with each other and therefore, in my opinion, fosters a better understanding of the people of our nation. Before I went in the Army I had never met a Puerto Rican, Korean, or hell, even Yankee before (you know, inner city black, Boston inner city Irish, etc.). So the military helped me understand what stereotypes of them and myself were true and which ones were not. So today I read people much better than the average joe and I think most military and ex military are the same way. The military is good for a nation as it keeps the citizens grounded and aware of what is happening in the world.

 

[Annie]

Originally posted by dilloduck
I'm sure if this ever occurs it would be phased in an no one would be "Yanked" out of school. The military gives some people more education than they could have ever dreamed of were it not for thier enlistment .
College used to be a good dodge to not be drafted. Now it is used by many to dodge real life.

You accept the freedoms and even criticize our country for it's actions yet feel no obligation to something for it other than pay taxes?

Good point Dillo. There is learning of itself by military. More $ for education afterwards. While disruptive, no doubt, better in the long run for the individual, providing they make it through. Now my take on Brown eyes, is she is saying (I could be wrong), that better that some lowlife get offed, then a potential college grad.

 

[brneyedgrl80]

I've never said the least educated should die and I definitely don't feel that is right.

I think to sum it quickly. I am against a military draft overall, not just for students. IMO, it makes things worse, not better. It obviously would hurt students, households, employers, etc...

I'll make an example out of myself. As stated previously, I'm 23 and a college student. Besides that, I work full-time at a job I've been at for a little over 4 years. I bring in a little under half of the household income, but take care of the majority of the house. If I were to become drafted, I would lose pratically everything I have put into my schooling, my husband would be left alone and would not be able to pay for the house, my kitties wouldn't have me around (closest thing to kids for me) and my job would suffer as well.

I just think it best to leave joining the military as a volunteer thing. If people want to joing let them, the ones who don't shouldn't be made to. There are tons of reasons for not joining, just as there are tons to join.

I hope that makes my position a little clearer.

 

[Annie]

Originally posted by brneyedgrl80
I've never said the least educated should die and I definitely don't feel that is right.

I think to sum it quickly. I am against a military draft overall, not just for students. IMO, it makes things worse, not better. It obviously would hurt students, households, employers, etc...

I'll make an example out of myself. As stated previously, I'm 23 and a college student. Besides that, I work full-time at a job I've been at for a little over 4 years. I bring in a little under half of the household income, but take care of the majority of the house. If I were to become drafted, I would lose pratically everything I have put into my schooling, my husband would be left alone and would not be able to pay for the house, my kitties wouldn't have me around (closest thing to kids for me) and my job would suffer as well.

I just think it best to leave joining the military as a volunteer thing. If people want to joing let them, the ones who don't shouldn't be made to. There are tons of reasons for not joining, just as there are tons to join.

I hope that makes my position a little clearer.

Well, clear as mud I spose. kitties as kids, sorry no dice. US has yet to draft women, but perhaps ought, though I can give several reasons nought.

We don't have a draft, no one wants one, though some wish to use threat against administration, you for one. JUst don't want it effecting you and kitties.

 

[brneyedgrl80]

Originally posted by freeandfun1
In Korea, you get out of high school, go to university two years, go military for two years (was three) and then finish your last two years. (now days the scenario varies a bit, but that is the jist of the system).

A system such as that would be good for America. I think it would force EVERYBODY to have a more open mind about life and the world. The military offers people that have only been around one "class" of people, to learn about others from the point of view as an equal and not as from an outsider, coming in to do good but going home to sleep in your plush bed at night. It puts the various people of this nation, even if only for a short time, on an equal basis with each other and therefore, in my opinion, fosters a better understanding of the people of our nation. Before I went in the Army I had never met a Puerto Rican, Korean, or hell, even Yankee before (you know, inner city black, Boston inner city Irish, etc.). So the military helped me understand what stereotypes of them and myself were true and which ones were not. So today I read people much better than the average joe and I think most military and ex military are the same way. The military is good for a nation as it keeps the citizens grounded and aware of what is happening in the world.

I agree that it can be a good opportunity for people, but it just depends on the individual.

For me, I didn't need the military to introduce me to different types of people in this country. I come from a mixed background and thankfully, I grew up in San Diego which is a very diverse city. In the schools I went to other than high school, the white population was one of the smaller ethnic groups. I grew up in a neighborhood filled with white, black, mexican, asian, oriental and south/north african people. As I got older I've met even more people especially when I moved to Hillcrest in San Diego. Anyone who knows San Diego, knows what Hillcrest is all about.

Granted I know that not everyone is brought up in an environment such as that and that is how I can see the military as being beneficial if the person wants the experience.

 

[brneyedgrl80]

Originally posted by Kathianne
Well, clear as mud I spose. kitties as kids, sorry no dice. US has yet to draft women, but perhaps ought, though I can give several reasons nought.

We don't have a draft, no one wants one, though some wish to use threat against administration, you for one. JUst don't want it effecting you and kitties.

Apparently, my others reasons eluded you. My kitties were just one of them.

I'm glad you find my comment kitties as kids funny though I was being serious.

 

[Annie]

Originally posted by brneyedgrl80
I agree that it can be a good opportunity for people, but it just depends on the individual.

For me, I didn't need the military to introduce me to different types of people in this country. I come from a mixed background and thankfully, I grew up in San Diego which is a very diverse city. In the schools I went to other than high school, the white population was one of the smaller ethnic groups. I grew up in a neighborhood filled with white, black, mexican, asian, oriental and south/north african people. As I got older I've met even more people especially when I moved to Hillcrest in San Diego. Anyone who knows San Diego, knows what Hillcrest is all about.

Granted I know that not everyone is brought up in an environment such as that and that is how I can see the military as being beneficial if the person wants the experience.

LOL

I didn't need the military to introduce me to different types of people in this country. I come from a mixed background and thankfully, I grew up in San Diego which is a very diverse city. In the schools I went to other than high school, the white population was one of the smaller ethnic groups. I grew up in a neighborhood filled with white, black, mexican, asian, oriental and south/north african people. As I got older I've met even more people especially when I moved to Hillcrest in San Diego. Anyone who knows San Diego, knows what Hillcrest is all about.

Granted I know that not everyone is brought up in an environment such as that and that is how I can see the military as being beneficial if the person wants the experience.

My god, if I read this correctly, if one is brought up in a non-diversified neighborhood then they should have to serve in the military! My god in heaven!

 

[dilloduck]

Originally posted by brneyedgrl80
I agree that it can be a good opportunity for people, but it just depends on the individual.

For me, I didn't need the military to introduce me to different types of people in this country. I come from a mixed background and thankfully, I grew up in San Diego which is a very diverse city. In the schools I went to other than high school, the white population was one of the smaller ethnic groups. I grew up in a neighborhood filled with white, black, mexican, asian, oriental and south/north african people. As I got older I've met even more people especially when I moved to Hillcrest in San Diego. Anyone who knows San Diego, knows what Hillcrest is all about.

Granted I know that not everyone is brought up in an environment such as that and that is how I can see the military as being beneficial if the person wants the experience.

The individuals in the military give you the freedom to do all the things you listed above. You are lucky as shit that people have volunteered to sacrifice FOR YOU. Good thing our countries' security isn't up to you because you wouldn't do it !