Time to split up California

[frigidweirdo]

And they now have the signatures to put it on the ballot for a vote

Plan to break up California reportedly has enough signatures for November ballot

I can only imagine how the entire state feels trapped by the looney left in LA and San Fran.

It must be a fate worse than death. Zero representation for the rest of the state.

Well, if the country had Proportional Representation instead of the rubbish it currently has, then no one would feel trapped as each vote would count equal no matter where you live.

they vote that way for all local races. what's your problem?

My problem might be that only 12 states seem to matter, that millions of people don't get to vote for who they want to vote for, that two political parties have taken over and make sure that other views get ignore, and the rich have capitalized on this and basically control the country... democracy? **** off, there's no democracy in the US.

 

[jc456]

And they now have the signatures to put it on the ballot for a vote

Plan to break up California reportedly has enough signatures for November ballot

I can only imagine how the entire state feels trapped by the looney left in LA and San Fran.

It must be a fate worse than death. Zero representation for the rest of the state.

Well, if the country had Proportional Representation instead of the rubbish it currently has, then no one would feel trapped as each vote would count equal no matter where you live.

they vote that way for all local races. what's your problem?

My problem might be that only 12 states seem to matter, that millions of people don't get to vote for who they want to vote for, that two political parties have taken over and make sure that other views get ignore, and the rich have capitalized on this and basically control the country... democracy? **** off, there's no democracy in the US.

they do, in all local elections. get rid of primaries and that will take care of all that you stated. k?

 

[frigidweirdo]

Well, if the country had Proportional Representation instead of the rubbish it currently has, then no one would feel trapped as each vote would count equal no matter where you live.

Maybe a change in countries... Somewhere they have this Proportional Representation you speak of...

That tired, old childish argument.

yet factual

Maybe. Maybe when there's a fat girl, and the boys stand around her shouting "fatty, fatty, fatty, fatty!" in here face it's factual.

Doesn't make it moral, decent, the right thing to do, nice, good, or anything else positive.

This is a political forum and half the people on here think they're still in high school.

 

[jc456]

Well, if the country had Proportional Representation instead of the rubbish it currently has, then no one would feel trapped as each vote would count equal no matter where you live.

Maybe a change in countries... Somewhere they have this Proportional Representation you speak of...

That tired, old childish argument.

yet factual

Maybe. Maybe when there's a fat girl, and the boys stand around her shouting "fatty, fatty, fatty, fatty!" in here face it's factual.

Doesn't make it moral, decent, the right thing to do, nice, good, or anything else positive.

This is a political forum and half the people on here think they're still in high school.

I'll agree on that last point. bullying is rampet in here and the Mods allow it.

 

[Thinker101]

Well, if the country had Proportional Representation instead of the rubbish it currently has, then no one would feel trapped as each vote would count equal no matter where you live.

Maybe a change in countries... Somewhere they have this Proportional Representation you speak of...

That tired, old childish argument.

yet factual

Maybe. Maybe when there's a fat girl, and the boys stand around her shouting "fatty, fatty, fatty, fatty!" in here face it's factual.

Doesn't make it moral, decent, the right thing to do, nice, good, or anything else positive.

This is a political forum and half the people on here think they're still in high school.

Half these people made it to high school?

 

[frigidweirdo]

And they now have the signatures to put it on the ballot for a vote

Plan to break up California reportedly has enough signatures for November ballot

I can only imagine how the entire state feels trapped by the looney left in LA and San Fran.

It must be a fate worse than death. Zero representation for the rest of the state.

Well, if the country had Proportional Representation instead of the rubbish it currently has, then no one would feel trapped as each vote would count equal no matter where you live.

they vote that way for all local races. what's your problem?

My problem might be that only 12 states seem to matter, that millions of people don't get to vote for who they want to vote for, that two political parties have taken over and make sure that other views get ignore, and the rich have capitalized on this and basically control the country... democracy? **** off, there's no democracy in the US.

they do, in all local elections. get rid of primaries and that will take care of all that you stated. k?

I disagree.

No, getting rid of primaries would do nothing.

Look at the facts, seeing as you like factual so much.

The US's third party is the Libertarian Party. They have 0 Supreme Court justices, have had 0 Presidents, have 0 members of Congress.

In the states they have 0 governorship, one state senate seat out of 1,972, three lower house seats out of 5,411 seats. 223 other elected officials.

Democracy? Really?

Let's take a look at other countries' third parties.

In Germany a new political party (founded in 2013) became the new official third party in 2017 with 94 seats out of 709 seats in the Bundestag.

That's more seats than the Libertarians hold in Federal and State governments, by 20 times more (and some).

They have 158 seats in state parliaments and one seat in the EU parliament.

In the French election in 2017, people have a choice of party and of coalition to vote for. So, the third coalition was the parliamentary left which includes three political parties. They have 45 seats in the French parliament, in the Presidential election their candidate got 6.3% of the vote.

In the US presidential elections the Libertarians got 3.27% of the vote, and everyone knows their vote was a waste of time. The Libertarians actually got one EC vote, but not even for Gary Johnson. Go figure.

At the local level people still think about national politics, people still vote for two political parties. Were national politics to open up, then local politics would follow, rather than the other way around.

No natural political system would have only two parties.

 

[frigidweirdo]

Well, if the country had Proportional Representation instead of the rubbish it currently has, then no one would feel trapped as each vote would count equal no matter where you live.

Maybe a change in countries... Somewhere they have this Proportional Representation you speak of...

That tired, old childish argument.

yet factual

Maybe. Maybe when there's a fat girl, and the boys stand around her shouting "fatty, fatty, fatty, fatty!" in here face it's factual.

Doesn't make it moral, decent, the right thing to do, nice, good, or anything else positive.

This is a political forum and half the people on here think they're still in high school.

I'll agree on that last point. bullying is rampet in here and the Mods allow it.

Bullying, insulting, nonsense.... happens all the time. I have so many of these people on my ignore list.

 

[frigidweirdo]

Well, if the country had Proportional Representation instead of the rubbish it currently has, then no one would feel trapped as each vote would count equal no matter where you live.

Maybe a change in countries... Somewhere they have this Proportional Representation you speak of...

That tired, old childish argument.

yet factual

Maybe. Maybe when there's a fat girl, and the boys stand around her shouting "fatty, fatty, fatty, fatty!" in here face it's factual.

Doesn't make it moral, decent, the right thing to do, nice, good, or anything else positive.

This is a political forum and half the people on here think they're still in high school.

Half these people made it to high school?

Yes, well, age is usually the only qualifying factor to make it there.

 

[Votto]

And they now have the signatures to put it on the ballot for a vote

Plan to break up California reportedly has enough signatures for November ballot

I can only imagine how the entire state feels trapped by the looney left in LA and San Fran.

It must be a fate worse than death. Zero representation for the rest of the state.

Well, if the country had Proportional Representation instead of the rubbish it currently has, then no one would feel trapped as each vote would count equal no matter where you live.

they vote that way for all local races. what's your problem?

My problem might be that only 12 states seem to matter, that millions of people don't get to vote for who they want to vote for, that two political parties have taken over and make sure that other views get ignore, and the rich have capitalized on this and basically control the country... democracy? **** off, there's no democracy in the US.

they do, in all local elections. get rid of primaries and that will take care of all that you stated. k?

I disagree.

No, getting rid of primaries would do nothing.

Look at the facts, seeing as you like factual so much.

The US's third party is the Libertarian Party. They have 0 Supreme Court justices, have had 0 Presidents, have 0 members of Congress.

In the states they have 0 governorship, one state senate seat out of 1,972, three lower house seats out of 5,411 seats. 223 other elected officials.

Democracy? Really?

Let's take a look at other countries' third parties.

In Germany a new political party (founded in 2013) became the new official third party in 2017 with 94 seats out of 709 seats in the Bundestag.

That's more seats than the Libertarians hold in Federal and State governments, by 20 times more (and some).

They have 158 seats in state parliaments and one seat in the EU parliament.

In the French election in 2017, people have a choice of party and of coalition to vote for. So, the third coalition was the parliamentary left which includes three political parties. They have 45 seats in the French parliament, in the Presidential election their candidate got 6.3% of the vote.

In the US presidential elections the Libertarians got 3.27% of the vote, and everyone knows their vote was a waste of time. The Libertarians actually got one EC vote, but not even for Gary Johnson. Go figure.

At the local level people still think about national politics, people still vote for two political parties. Were national politics to open up, then local politics would follow, rather than the other way around.

No natural political system would have only two parties.

Libertarianism is for limited government. However, extremists on the left and right are for big government and centralized control, which is what the US has now.

Libertarians, therefore, have no place in it.

The issue is centralized power and has corrupted both parties who are arguably one in the same. Unfortunately, once they take power they don't relinquish it, at least, historically speaking.

 

[jc456]

Well, if the country had Proportional Representation instead of the rubbish it currently has, then no one would feel trapped as each vote would count equal no matter where you live.

they vote that way for all local races. what's your problem?

My problem might be that only 12 states seem to matter, that millions of people don't get to vote for who they want to vote for, that two political parties have taken over and make sure that other views get ignore, and the rich have capitalized on this and basically control the country... democracy? **** off, there's no democracy in the US.

they do, in all local elections. get rid of primaries and that will take care of all that you stated. k?

I disagree.

No, getting rid of primaries would do nothing.

Look at the facts, seeing as you like factual so much.

The US's third party is the Libertarian Party. They have 0 Supreme Court justices, have had 0 Presidents, have 0 members of Congress.

In the states they have 0 governorship, one state senate seat out of 1,972, three lower house seats out of 5,411 seats. 223 other elected officials.

Democracy? Really?

Let's take a look at other countries' third parties.

In Germany a new political party (founded in 2013) became the new official third party in 2017 with 94 seats out of 709 seats in the Bundestag.

That's more seats than the Libertarians hold in Federal and State governments, by 20 times more (and some).

They have 158 seats in state parliaments and one seat in the EU parliament.

In the French election in 2017, people have a choice of party and of coalition to vote for. So, the third coalition was the parliamentary left which includes three political parties. They have 45 seats in the French parliament, in the Presidential election their candidate got 6.3% of the vote.

In the US presidential elections the Libertarians got 3.27% of the vote, and everyone knows their vote was a waste of time. The Libertarians actually got one EC vote, but not even for Gary Johnson. Go figure.

At the local level people still think about national politics, people still vote for two political parties. Were national politics to open up, then local politics would follow, rather than the other way around.

No natural political system would have only two parties.

Libertarianism is for limited government. However, extremists on the left and right are for big government and centralized control, which is what the US has now.

Libertarians, therefore, have no place in it.

The issue is centralized power and has corrupted both parties who are arguably one in the same. Unfortunately, once they take power they don't relinquish it, at least, historically speaking.

it only gets worse, which is what we're watching. again, do away with primaries and let all candidates get votes and the one with the highest amount wins. stop putting just two parties on the ballots, leave party off of the ballot and just the names. let's see how that works. real people voting for real people.

 

[BrokeLoser]

Ah the con wet dream that will never happen.

For you cons that don't like CA it's simple, get out. You love to tell people 'America love it or leave it'. Just apply your hypocritical bullshit to yourselves and your problems are solved. Best for you to head on out to one of the red welfare states where minimum wage is considered too high and education is a nuisance.

Have a good trip, be sure to send a postcard.

Republicans are leaving, especially business owners.

The way things are headed, the entire nation will turn into California. Then where will they run?

That is what happens when you the two major parties that are both liberal and big government parties.

That would be fine.

If the city in question because so extremist or exploits the surrounding regions for their own benefit, they should have the ability to opt out.

But if it were up to Progs, they would do away with the Electoral College if they could and allow LA and New York City decide every national election for the Dims due to their large population levels.

As a result, you will get zero sympathy from the little tyrants.

Do you believe that the votes of the people who love in large cities should count less than those who live in more rural areas?


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

Do you believe we should keep international borders open allowing in millions of unAmerican minded foreigners to drop anchors in border states and then allow said foreigners to eventually decide American elections?

 

[Ridgerunner]

**** off, there's no democracy in the US.

Done a search and you never bitched once when your boy Obama was in charge... Cheese and crackers!!! Quit crying...

 

[jc456]

Republicans are leaving, especially business owners.

The way things are headed, the entire nation will turn into California. Then where will they run?

That is what happens when you the two major parties that are both liberal and big government parties.

That would be fine.

If the city in question because so extremist or exploits the surrounding regions for their own benefit, they should have the ability to opt out.

But if it were up to Progs, they would do away with the Electoral College if they could and allow LA and New York City decide every national election for the Dims due to their large population levels.

As a result, you will get zero sympathy from the little tyrants.

Do you believe that the votes of the people who love in large cities should count less than those who live in more rural areas?


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

Do you believe we should keep international borders open allowing in millions of unAmerican minded foreigners to drop anchors in border states and then allow said foreigners to eventually decide American elections?

well if it is, then russia didn't interfere in our elections because we have no borders and everyone is eligible to vote.

 

[IsaacNewton]

And they now have the signatures to put it on the ballot for a vote

Plan to break up California reportedly has enough signatures for November ballot

I can only imagine how the entire state feels trapped by the looney left in LA and San Fran.

It must be a fate worse than death. Zero representation for the rest of the state.

Ah the con wet dream that will never happen.

For you cons that don't like CA it's simple, get out. You love to tell people 'America love it or leave it'. Just apply your hypocritical bullshit to yourselves and your problems are solved. Best for you to head on out to one of the red welfare states where minimum wage is considered too high and education is a nuisance.

Have a good trip, be sure to send a postcard.

Why not let people govern themselves instead of letting a few cities dictate to the entire state?

Or does that threaten your overall power and reach?

Then you've made an argument for splitting up every state in the union. It's laughable. I actually think the US should be split into 3 or 4 new countries. Red states can take their minimum wage/no abortion/no science agenda and codify it into a new smaller country called Backwards Hillbilly and Preachin' Banjostan or whatever else suits them. Just stop with this incessant drive to force your bullshit on everyone else. Go have your own place to stew in your misery and leave everyone else alone.

 

[dblack]

And they now have the signatures to put it on the ballot for a vote

Plan to break up California reportedly has enough signatures for November ballot

I can only imagine how the entire state feels trapped by the looney left in LA and San Fran.

It must be a fate worse than death. Zero representation for the rest of the state.

Well, if the country had Proportional Representation instead of the rubbish it currently has, then no one would feel trapped as each vote would count equal no matter where you live.

This is the best answer to the problem. But the Rethuglocrats will fight it tooth and nail because it will undermine their dominance. That's why it need to be bottom-up campaign. We need to introduce sane improvements to the election process locally. Once people see how they work, they'll be more comfortable with changes nationally.

 

[frigidweirdo]

they vote that way for all local races. what's your problem?

My problem might be that only 12 states seem to matter, that millions of people don't get to vote for who they want to vote for, that two political parties have taken over and make sure that other views get ignore, and the rich have capitalized on this and basically control the country... democracy? **** off, there's no democracy in the US.

they do, in all local elections. get rid of primaries and that will take care of all that you stated. k?

I disagree.

No, getting rid of primaries would do nothing.

Look at the facts, seeing as you like factual so much.

The US's third party is the Libertarian Party. They have 0 Supreme Court justices, have had 0 Presidents, have 0 members of Congress.

In the states they have 0 governorship, one state senate seat out of 1,972, three lower house seats out of 5,411 seats. 223 other elected officials.

Democracy? Really?

Let's take a look at other countries' third parties.

In Germany a new political party (founded in 2013) became the new official third party in 2017 with 94 seats out of 709 seats in the Bundestag.

That's more seats than the Libertarians hold in Federal and State governments, by 20 times more (and some).

They have 158 seats in state parliaments and one seat in the EU parliament.

In the French election in 2017, people have a choice of party and of coalition to vote for. So, the third coalition was the parliamentary left which includes three political parties. They have 45 seats in the French parliament, in the Presidential election their candidate got 6.3% of the vote.

In the US presidential elections the Libertarians got 3.27% of the vote, and everyone knows their vote was a waste of time. The Libertarians actually got one EC vote, but not even for Gary Johnson. Go figure.

At the local level people still think about national politics, people still vote for two political parties. Were national politics to open up, then local politics would follow, rather than the other way around.

No natural political system would have only two parties.

Libertarianism is for limited government. However, extremists on the left and right are for big government and centralized control, which is what the US has now.

Libertarians, therefore, have no place in it.

The issue is centralized power and has corrupted both parties who are arguably one in the same. Unfortunately, once they take power they don't relinquish it, at least, historically speaking.

it only gets worse, which is what we're watching. again, do away with primaries and let all candidates get votes and the one with the highest amount wins. stop putting just two parties on the ballots, leave party off of the ballot and just the names. let's see how that works. real people voting for real people.

It won't work. People will just end up forming political parties anyway.

 

[frigidweirdo]

**** off, there's no democracy in the US.

Done a search and you never bitched once when your boy Obama was in charge... Cheese and crackers!!! Quit crying...

You clearly didn't do a search properly then.

What a surprise.

May 20th 2014

No particularly no.
What I'm talking about is the ability of people to go to the polls and know that their vote actually counts. At present some people's vote counts, very few, especially in national politics.

Yes, there are lots of ways to do PR in the House. It would work, I like the German system which is half PR and half FPTP, so that people still have a congressman who is voted in by the people of the area and acts on their behalf, but over all the House would be based on the wishes of all the people.

March 31st 2014

So, the Republican Party is corrupt, not interested in the voters but the money.
The Democratic Party is corrupt, not interested in the voters but the money.

$6.5 billion was spent at the last federal elections, mostly on telling people what to thing and mostly aimed at stopping other parties standing any chance what so ever.

Now, with PR, people would feel like they could vote other parties because it would not be FPTP and basically a choice of two. If only one person voted in Washington State for a party, it would actually count as a vote, whereas now it only counts for their little area.

The Presidency is the obvious place where PR would have a small impact, it would still be a rep-dem toss up. The House would be where it could have the greatest impact with smaller parties able to at least get close to having a seat.

I like the German system. Half PR half FPTP.

So you vote both. For a constituency candidate and for a party. The make up of parliament has to match PR more or less. All the constituency winners are automatically put on the top of the list, then the rest of the list is added if there are more seats for that party.

It leads to far more parties taking part, FPTP often leads to 2 or 3 parties, PR to 4 or 5 at least.

May 5th 2014

What would the political landscape look like?

How many parties do you think there would be.

If say there were 4 parties, how do you think they'd align themselves? \

Would it just be Reps v. Dems all over again, or would it be a lit different?

October 9th 2014

Number one, they're part of the system that reduces democracy to almost nothing (the other part being the democrats).

Number two, they've sold out (just like the democrats)

Number three, because you should want Proportional Representation as part of the system for electing the president and congress, and this will never happen as long as it remains democrat and republican control.

Number four. voting either democrat or republican is JUST WRONG.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

And they now have the signatures to put it on the ballot for a vote

Plan to break up California reportedly has enough signatures for November ballot

I can only imagine how the entire state feels trapped by the looney left in LA and San Fran.

It must be a fate worse than death. Zero representation for the rest of the state.

Ah the con wet dream that will never happen.

For you cons that don't like CA it's simple, get out. You love to tell people 'America love it or leave it'. Just apply your hypocritical bullshit to yourselves and your problems are solved. Best for you to head on out to one of the red welfare states where minimum wage is considered too high and education is a nuisance.

Have a good trip, be sure to send a postcard.

Why not let people govern themselves instead of letting a few cities dictate to the entire state?

Or does that threaten your overall power and reach?

Then you've made an argument for splitting up every state in the union. It's laughable. I actually think the US should be split into 3 or 4 new countries. Red states can take their minimum wage/no abortion/no science agenda and codify it into a new smaller country called Backwards Hillbilly and Preachin' Banjostan or whatever else suits them. Just stop with this incessant drive to force your bullshit on everyone else. Go have your own place to stew in your misery and leave everyone else alone.

I couldn't agree more and I'm in full support of that. Divide the country right down the middle from north to south.

On our side, we will have low taxation and social programs only for those who truly need them. If we choose the side of the country I live on and the liberals have to move out, my property value will double overnight. We will have to layoff a lot of police officers though.

Not to worry, while most businesses would move to our side because of taxes and less regulation, you can still have industries like house alarm companies, solar panel places, knife and bat companies (since there will be no guns on your side) places that make steel gates and doors for store fronts, heavy duty screen doors with unbreakable locks, safes, all kinds of things your side will need.

On our side children will start the day in prayer before school followed by the Pledge. On your side, your children can start off school by pissing on the flag and then going to the cafeteria for free breakfast complete with Michelle Obama's pick of items.

On our side people will be held responsible for their own actions. On your side, you will have to blame us for what your people do.

The only real problem is keeping people from your side jumping the border to get to our side. So we will build a huge Trump wall on the border.

 

[Toro]

And they now have the signatures to put it on the ballot for a vote

Plan to break up California reportedly has enough signatures for November ballot

I can only imagine how the entire state feels trapped by the looney left in LA and San Fran.

It must be a fate worse than death. Zero representation for the rest of the state.

Ah the con wet dream that will never happen.

For you cons that don't like CA it's simple, get out. You love to tell people 'America love it or leave it'. Just apply your hypocritical bullshit to yourselves and your problems are solved. Best for you to head on out to one of the red welfare states where minimum wage is considered too high and education is a nuisance.

Have a good trip, be sure to send a postcard.

Why not let people govern themselves instead of letting a few cities dictate to the entire state?

Or does that threaten your overall power and reach?

Why just California, just about every state has a few cities that have the majority of the people in them.

Why not do it to Texas? Let the people of Texas govern themselves instead of letting a few cities dictate to the entire state?

Or ...

Make Dallas a state, Houston a state, Austin a state, and leave the rest as Texas.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

A strong secession movement in this country could have wonderful consequences. It could limit the currently unlimited power of the criminal central government.

I can't imagine how great it would be never having to put up with a liberal again. What a relief.