Time To Get Serious About Language Learning?

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

We're not arguing, I'm informing you and you are getting defensive for some reason.

No, you are taking your extremely limited experience and giving the rest of the education world a fresh coat of bullshit.

The NCLB demanded all students be completely fluent within two years of ESL instruction and there were no "ESL" teachers in the state, so all core teachers were required to take ESL instruction classes after school with no pay for the hours required. If I recall correctly, English teachers had additional instruction hours comparable to a Master's degree.

Stay in your little corner of Boston with their limited number of ESL students and dedicated ESL teachers. The rest of the world does not match up to your fantasies.

 

[SweetSue92]

Foreign language instruction in the US starts late and is not emphasized as much as many other subjects. Should we as a nation (more accurately, as many local school districts) change this emphasis? Every year, more and more jobs in the US are advertised as requiring at least bilingualism, and more of the higher paying jobs involve working and communicating with people in and from all over the world. Employment aside, there are many well-established social and cognitive benefits from learning other languages than one's first. Should we require a much higher standard of proficiency and/or acquisition of two or more languages as part of graduation requirements from high school?

Our students begin taking Spanish in pre-Kinder and take it all the way through 5th grade, mandatory. People believe everything at every age is all about acquiring the immediate skill. No. It's also about brain-building, making connections, "learning how to learn", etc, important in all grades but maybe especially so at the younger grades. It's why ample playtime and recess is not a waste of time in, say, kindergarten.

Invoking Conservative Credo: no no, sit those five year olds in desks in rows for 6 hours and day and make them skill and drill math facts. I hated it and was miserable so by gum my great-grandkids should hate it too.

 

[Unkotare]

No, you are taking your extremely limited experience ......

???
We have established that my ongoing experience is significantly more than yours. This doesn't have to be adversarial.

 

[Unkotare]

....

The NCLB demanded all students be completely fluent within two years of ESL instruction ...

LOL!
Link?

 

[Unkotare]

...Boston with their limited number of ESL students and dedicated ESL teachers. ....

Oh, we have many, many of both. Come up and tour some schools, maybe observe a few classes.

 

[Unkotare]

...

Invoking Conservative Credo: no no, sit those five year olds in desks in rows for 6 hours and day and make them skill and drill math facts. I hated it and was miserable so by gum my great-grandkids should hate it too.

Ok...not sure what that has to do with the topic, but ok.

 

[SweetSue92]

Ok...not sure what that has to do with the topic, but ok.

Sorry--I was thinking about how foreign language is not only worthy of study on its own, but also helps children understand their native language in a new way. Form connections etc. But how many people see no value in this--butts in seats, skill and drill. That's all kids should be doing.

 

[BlackSand]

Why not a mandatory skill for graduation?

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According to a study by the US Department of Education and the National Institute for Literacy ...
19% of High School Graduates cannot read the diploma they get.

How about we pay more than lip service towards teaching the students something they can use in their everyday lives ...

.​

 

[Unkotare]

Sorry--I was thinking about how foreign language is not only worthy of study on its own, but also helps children understand their native language in a new way. Form connections etc. But how many people see no value in this--butts in seats, skill and drill. That's all kids should be doing.

Well, you gotta sit down sometimes, regardless of the subject. I have high school students who don't know how to sit and concentrate for five minutes.

 

[Unkotare]

.

According to a study by the US Department of Education and the National Institute for Literacy ...
19% of High School Graduates cannot read the diploma they get.

How about we pay more than lip service towards teaching the students something they can use in their everyday lives ...

.​

You don't use language in your everyday life?

 

[SweetSue92]

.

According to a study by the US Department of Education and the National Institute for Literacy ...
19% of High School Graduates cannot read the diploma they get.

How about we pay more than lip service towards teaching the students something they can use in their everyday lives ...

.​

So students in high-performing districts should be prevented from learning a second language because students in low performing districts largely cannot read?

 

[SweetSue92]

Well, you gotta sit down sometimes, regardless of the subject. I have high school students who don't know how to sit and concentrate for five minutes.

Sure. You start in Kindergarten, on the carpet and at tables, and go from there. But not at the expense of play time.

PS High schoolers unable to concentrate and sit is technology and the brain. When smartphone/iPads came out we saw a marked change in attention and behavior in children which we attribute not only to their exposure but also parents'.

 

[Unkotare]

..... students in low performing districts largely cannot read?

"Cannot read" is misleading. There are degrees of proficiency in anything. Learning another language improves skills applicable to their English proficiency as well.

 

[Unkotare]

Sure. You start in Kindergarten, on the carpet and at tables, and go from there. But not at the expense of play time.

PS High schoolers unable to concentrate and sit is technology and the brain. When smartphone/iPads came out we saw a marked change in attention and behavior in children which we attribute not only to their exposure but also parents'.

The cell phone addiction is truly disturbing. It's like watching a crackhead jonesing for a fix.

 

[BlackSand]

So students in high-performing districts should be prevented from learning a second language because students in low performing districts largely cannot read?

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No one is prevented from learning any foreign language, at any time ...

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[SweetSue92]

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No one is prevented from learning any foreign language, at any time ...

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Can you not say that for any school subject? "No one is prevented from taking remedial reading comprehension at any time?"

 

[BlackSand]

You don't use language in your everyday life?

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I do ... I also know German and Spanish ... None of which was taught to me in the public school system.
However ... If you desire to learn a foreign language it is very possible, although immersion usually has better results ...

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[BlackSand]

Can you not say that for any school subject? "No one is prevented from taking remedial reading comprehension at any time?"

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Absolutely ... And it is recommended for students that fail to achieve the appropriate curriculum standards.
That is in no way a reason to support expanding an already failing system in attempts to support more failure.

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[Unkotare]

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Absolutely ... And it is recommended for students that fail to achieve the appropriate curriculum standards.
That is in no way a reason to support expanding an already failing system in attempts to support more failure.

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You feel that students aren't learning enough, so you oppose teaching them more?
??????

 

[BlackSand]

You feel that students aren't learning enough, so you oppose teaching them more?
??????

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I feel anyone can learn anything they choose to and put the effort towards.
The only comment I made was towards your comment about making it a requirement.

If the Department of Education understands we aren't meeting our basic requirements as is ...
Then there is no reason to expand the requirements to include more requirements that are not unavailable
to people who desire to learn to start with ...

I am not interested in your pipe dreams until you can ensure you are doing what is necessary to succeed with the existing requirements.

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