Time to attack iran

I think the most important factor is Israel's frustrations with Iran and how far it would be willing to go to get rid of Iran's influence

A nuclear weapon is not the primary problem. Iran backs Hezbollah and Hamas, and the Lebanon war ruined Israel's reputation in the West and frankly humiliated the country that claims to be infinitely more powerful than its neighbours. Israel knows it can't possibly get rid of those smaller groups that resist it in Lebanon and Palestine unless it cuts off the funds and aid coming from Iran (though I guess Hezbollah is now more and more independently financed)

So I really don't see confrontation as an "if" but as a "when." In an ideal world we would have leaders that cared about the well-being of mankind, but sadly the decision makers in this situation are a bunch of religious lunatics in Qom and in-bred bankers in New York...

War will happen eventually unless the Iranian government is toppled from within... and a more militaristic Iran is likely to grow out of the current situation.


Don't expect a revolution in Iran. There is no reason for one. Not really.

The Iranian people can see that what the regime is doing is successful. They are winning.

They have confronted the world and have won. They will have their nuclear arsenal.

The biggest problem this creates is that the NPT is basically dead.
 
I think the most important factor is Israel's frustrations with Iran and how far it would be willing to go to get rid of Iran's influence

A nuclear weapon is not the primary problem. Iran backs Hezbollah and Hamas, and the Lebanon war ruined Israel's reputation in the West and frankly humiliated the country that claims to be infinitely more powerful than its neighbours. Israel knows it can't possibly get rid of those smaller groups that resist it in Lebanon and Palestine unless it cuts off the funds and aid coming from Iran (though I guess Hezbollah is now more and more independently financed)

So I really don't see confrontation as an "if" but as a "when." In an ideal world we would have leaders that cared about the well-being of mankind, but sadly the decision makers in this situation are a bunch of religious lunatics in Qom and in-bred bankers in New York...

War will happen eventually unless the Iranian government is toppled from within... and a more militaristic Iran is likely to grow out of the current situation.


Don't expect a revolution in Iran. There is no reason for one. Not really.

The Iranian people can see that what the regime is doing is successful. They are winning.

They have confronted the world and have won. They will have their nuclear arsenal.

The biggest problem this creates is that the NPT is basically dead.

Iran's economic problems, disappearing oil surpluses, consistent and persistent violations of the regime's own law, etc. are giving Iranians a great cause for revolution... but this is a government that is very difficult to break. No revolution in Iran wiill be successful unless the oil profits are out of mullah hands.

I actually don't think Iran will build a nuclear weapon, but instead will have all the prerequisites ready to use as a bargaining chip
 
The FACT is that if you want regime change in YOUR country then it is YOU and your fellow citizens that must RISE UP, REVOLT, GIVE THEIR BLOOD and TEARS and LIMBS and FAMILIES if they want to have their own style of self governence.
 
Here's the thing......You CAN'T spread democracy like peanut butter over toast. If THEY want Democracy then THEY will have to fight and die for it or it HAS NO VALUE!!!

Iranians fought and died for their constitution in 1904. They set up democratic institutions and were ready to institute a democracy after the Qajar dynasty... until the Western powers forced Shah Pahlavi into accepting an autocratic government instead (not for bad reason... their entire policy was to set up an autocratic system that modernized the country so as to ward off socialist desires)

They then tried to set up a democratic government in the early 50s, and the CIA toppled that government and instituted the Shah again.

Then they overthrew the shah and voted for a republic based on Islamic principals, until the US and Europe encouraged and backed Saddam Hussein in a brutal 8 year war which killed over half a million Iranians. Then Khomeini used the opportunity presented by war to set up a dictatorship.

Essentially Iranians have bled for their freedom for a long time now. Yet everytime it's been British, Russian, or American interference which has taken away the democracy the people fought for.

Ironically it's the only country in the region that would vote for secularism, while the arab countries would prefer a religious government... perhaps because the Iranians have experienced this "Islamic paradise"
 
I think the most important factor is Israel's frustrations with Iran and how far it would be willing to go to get rid of Iran's influence

A nuclear weapon is not the primary problem. Iran backs Hezbollah and Hamas, and the Lebanon war ruined Israel's reputation in the West and frankly humiliated the country that claims to be infinitely more powerful than its neighbours. Israel knows it can't possibly get rid of those smaller groups that resist it in Lebanon and Palestine unless it cuts off the funds and aid coming from Iran (though I guess Hezbollah is now more and more independently financed)

So I really don't see confrontation as an "if" but as a "when." In an ideal world we would have leaders that cared about the well-being of mankind, but sadly the decision makers in this situation are a bunch of religious lunatics in Qom and in-bred bankers in New York...

War will happen eventually unless the Iranian government is toppled from within... and a more militaristic Iran is likely to grow out of the current situation.


Don't expect a revolution in Iran. There is no reason for one. Not really.

The Iranian people can see that what the regime is doing is successful. They are winning.

They have confronted the world and have won. They will have their nuclear arsenal.

The biggest problem this creates is that the NPT is basically dead.

Iran's economic problems, disappearing oil surpluses, consistent and persistent violations of the regime's own law, etc. are giving Iranians a great cause for revolution... but this is a government that is very difficult to break. No revolution in Iran wiill be successful unless the oil profits are out of mullah hands.

I actually don't think Iran will build a nuclear weapon, but instead will have all the prerequisites ready to use as a bargaining chip



No, they will develop nuclear weapons. Iran sees itself as a future Super Power.

I don't think they wish to bargain. That has not been it's way.

This is an ideology that does not back down. They see themselves as on a mission from God.

They are an evil regime in the sense that they torture and imprison political prisoners... but aside from those areas of excess, they are an Islamic Republic governing by Islamic Law.

They would consider it evil not to do so. In a nation of Muslims it's very hard to revolt against a regime that is Islamic. First they must judge the regime un-Islamic. Only then can they revolt against it.
 
Don't expect a revolution in Iran. There is no reason for one. Not really.

The Iranian people can see that what the regime is doing is successful. They are winning.

They have confronted the world and have won. They will have their nuclear arsenal.

The biggest problem this creates is that the NPT is basically dead.

Iran's economic problems, disappearing oil surpluses, consistent and persistent violations of the regime's own law, etc. are giving Iranians a great cause for revolution... but this is a government that is very difficult to break. No revolution in Iran wiill be successful unless the oil profits are out of mullah hands.

I actually don't think Iran will build a nuclear weapon, but instead will have all the prerequisites ready to use as a bargaining chip



No, they will develop nuclear weapons. Iran sees itself as a future Super Power.

I don't think they wish to bargain. That has not been it's way.

This is an ideology that does not back down. They see themselves as on a mission from God.

They are an evil regime in the sense that they torture and imprison political prisoners... but aside from those areas of excess, they are an Islamic Republic governing by Islamic Law.

They would consider it evil not to do so. In a nation of Muslims it's very hard to revolt against a regime that is Islamic. First they must judge the regime un-Islamic. Only then can they revolt against it.

you really need to visit Iran... the majority of the country laughs at Islam... about 45% support the Islamic government, but of those many would like to see changes in the system. What they have to do is get rid of the Basiji forces, which will not happen until the regime stops funding it with "disappearing" oil money.

And the government only cares about lining the pockets of the upper class with as much money as they can before they are kicked out and have to live in exile as billionaires... they most likely won't be build a bomb, because they have to respect (at least nominally) the international community and its laws... so they can get out of the sanctions which are crippling the country so their own people won't kill them
 
Iran's economic problems, disappearing oil surpluses, consistent and persistent violations of the regime's own law, etc. are giving Iranians a great cause for revolution... but this is a government that is very difficult to break. No revolution in Iran wiill be successful unless the oil profits are out of mullah hands.

I actually don't think Iran will build a nuclear weapon, but instead will have all the prerequisites ready to use as a bargaining chip



No, they will develop nuclear weapons. Iran sees itself as a future Super Power.

I don't think they wish to bargain. That has not been it's way.

This is an ideology that does not back down. They see themselves as on a mission from God.

They are an evil regime in the sense that they torture and imprison political prisoners... but aside from those areas of excess, they are an Islamic Republic governing by Islamic Law.

They would consider it evil not to do so. In a nation of Muslims it's very hard to revolt against a regime that is Islamic. First they must judge the regime un-Islamic. Only then can they revolt against it.

you really need to visit Iran... the majority of the country laughs at Islam... about 45% support the Islamic government, but of those many would like to see changes in the system. What they have to do is get rid of the Basiji forces, which will not happen until the regime stops funding it with "disappearing" oil money.

And the government only cares about lining the pockets of the upper class with as much money as they can before they are kicked out and have to live in exile as billionaires... they most likely won't be build a bomb, because they have to respect (at least nominally) the international community and its laws... so they can get out of the sanctions which are crippling the country so their own people won't kill them
Pure nonsense
 
No, they will develop nuclear weapons. Iran sees itself as a future Super Power.

I don't think they wish to bargain. That has not been it's way.

This is an ideology that does not back down. They see themselves as on a mission from God.

They are an evil regime in the sense that they torture and imprison political prisoners... but aside from those areas of excess, they are an Islamic Republic governing by Islamic Law.

They would consider it evil not to do so. In a nation of Muslims it's very hard to revolt against a regime that is Islamic. First they must judge the regime un-Islamic. Only then can they revolt against it.

you really need to visit Iran... the majority of the country laughs at Islam... about 45% support the Islamic government, but of those many would like to see changes in the system. What they have to do is get rid of the Basiji forces, which will not happen until the regime stops funding it with "disappearing" oil money.

And the government only cares about lining the pockets of the upper class with as much money as they can before they are kicked out and have to live in exile as billionaires... they most likely won't be build a bomb, because they have to respect (at least nominally) the international community and its laws... so they can get out of the sanctions which are crippling the country so their own people won't kill them
Pure nonsense

no, it's the simple truth of very conflicted country

the government of Iran must be very thankful for George Bush... he revived their system based on anti-imperial rhetoric just when the reformists were making progress
 
Here is a great article on why iran needs to be attacked ASAP. Rather than respond emotionally, as have so many here have done recently, I would like to see posters come up with point-by-point responses why Bolton's assessment is inaccurate.



By John R. Bolton
Thursday, July 2, 2009
With Iran's hard-line mullahs and the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps unmistakably back in control, Israel's decision of whether to use military force against Tehran's nuclear weapons program is more urgent than ever.

Iran's nuclear threat was never in doubt during its presidential campaign, but the post-election resistance raised the possibility of some sort of regime change. That prospect seems lost for the near future or for at least as long as it will take Iran to finalize a deliverable nuclear weapons capability.

Accordingly, with no other timely option, the already compelling logic for an Israeli strike is nearly inexorable. Israel is undoubtedly ratcheting forward its decision-making process. President Obama is almost certainly not.

He still wants "engagement" (a particularly evocative term now) with Iran's current regime. Last Thursday, the State Department confirmed that Secretary Hillary Clinton spoke to her Russian and Chinese counterparts about "getting Iran back to negotiating on some of these concerns that the international community has." This is precisely the view of Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov, reflected in the Group of Eight communique the next day. Sen. John Kerry thinks the recent election unpleasantness in Tehran will delay negotiations for only a few weeks.

Obama administration sources have opined (anonymously) that Iran will be more eager to negotiate than it was before its election in order to find "acceptance" by the "international community." Some leaks indicated that negotiations had to produce results by the U.N. General Assembly's opening in late September, while others projected that they had until the end of 2009 to show progress. These gauzy scenarios assume that the Tehran regime cares about "acceptance" or is somehow embarrassed by eliminating its enemies. Both propositions are dubious.

Obama will nonetheless attempt to jump-start bilateral negotiations with Iran, though time is running out even under the timetables leaked to the media. There are two problems with this approach. First, Tehran isn't going to negotiate in good faith. It hasn't for the past six years with the European Union as our surrogates, and it won't start now. As Clinton said on Tuesday, Iran has "a huge credibility gap" because of its electoral fraud. Second, given Iran's nuclear progress, even if the stronger sanctions Obama has threatened could be agreed upon, they would not prevent Iran from fabricating weapons and delivery systems when it chooses, as it has been striving to do for the past 20 years. Time is too short, and sanctions failed long ago.

Only those most theologically committed to negotiation still believe Iran will fully renounce its nuclear program. Unfortunately, the Obama administration has a "Plan B," which would allow Iran to have a "peaceful" civil nuclear power program while publicly "renouncing" the objective of nuclear weapons. Obama would define such an outcome as "success," even though in reality it would hardly be different from what Iran is doing and saying now. A "peaceful" uranium enrichment program, "peaceful" reactors such as Bushehr and "peaceful" heavy-water projects like that under construction at Arak leave Iran with an enormous breakout capability to produce nuclear weapons in very short order. And anyone who believes the Revolutionary Guard Corps will abandon its weaponization and ballistic missile programs probably believes that there was no fraud in Iran's June 12 election. See "huge credibility gap," supra.

In short, the stolen election and its tumultuous aftermath have dramatically highlighted the strategic and tactical flaws in Obama's game plan. With regime change off the table for the coming critical period in Iran's nuclear program, Israel's decision on using force is both easier and more urgent. Since there is no likelihood that diplomacy will start or finish in time, or even progress far enough to make any real difference, there is no point waiting for negotiations to play out. In fact, given the near certainty of Obama changing his definition of "success," negotiations represent an even more dangerous trap for Israel.

Those who oppose Iran acquiring nuclear weapons are left in the near term with only the option of targeted military force against its weapons facilities. Significantly, the uprising in Iran also makes it more likely that an effective public diplomacy campaign could be waged in the country to explain to Iranians that such an attack is directed against the regime, not against the Iranian people. This was always true, but it has become even more important to make this case emphatically, when the gulf between the Islamic revolution of 1979 and the citizens of Iran has never been clearer or wider. Military action against Iran's nuclear program and the ultimate goal of regime change can be worked together consistently.

Otherwise, be prepared for an Iran with nuclear weapons, which some, including Obama advisers, believe could be contained and deterred. That is not a hypothesis we should seek to test in the real world. The cost of error could be fatal.

The writer, a senior fellow at the American Enterprise Institute, was U.S. ambassador to the United Nations from August 2005 to December 2006 and is the author of "Surrender Is Not an Option: Defending America at the United Nations and Abroad."

I read the author of the article and that's as far as I needed to go.

John Bolton, maybe the most psycho of all psycho neocons on the planet shouldn't have a word he says taken seriously.

If you enjoy having 47% if your income going to pay for warmongering, then by all means approve of the War with Iran. If you enjoy limitless power of an enormous central government in the US. then support this upcoming war.

So for all of you who like big taxes, limited freedoms, big government, then by all means support this war. You're the most liberal people on the planet.
 
Here is a great article on why iran needs to be attacked ASAP. Rather than respond emotionally, as have so many here have done recently, I would like to see posters come up with point-by-point responses why Bolton's assessment is inaccurate.



By John R. Bolton
Thursday, July 2, 2009
With Iran's hard-line mullahs and the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps unmistakably back in control, Israel's decision of whether to use military force against Tehran's nuclear weapons program is more urgent than ever.

Iran's nuclear threat was never in doubt during its presidential campaign, but the post-election resistance raised the possibility of some sort of regime change. That prospect seems lost for the near future or for at least as long as it will take Iran to finalize a deliverable nuclear weapons capability.

Accordingly, with no other timely option, the already compelling logic for an Israeli strike is nearly inexorable. Israel is undoubtedly ratcheting forward its decision-making process. President Obama is almost certainly not.

He still wants "engagement" (a particularly evocative term now) with Iran's current regime. Last Thursday, the State Department confirmed that Secretary Hillary Clinton spoke to her Russian and Chinese counterparts about "getting Iran back to negotiating on some of these concerns that the international community has." This is precisely the view of Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov, reflected in the Group of Eight communique the next day. Sen. John Kerry thinks the recent election unpleasantness in Tehran will delay negotiations for only a few weeks.

Obama administration sources have opined (anonymously) that Iran will be more eager to negotiate than it was before its election in order to find "acceptance" by the "international community." Some leaks indicated that negotiations had to produce results by the U.N. General Assembly's opening in late September, while others projected that they had until the end of 2009 to show progress. These gauzy scenarios assume that the Tehran regime cares about "acceptance" or is somehow embarrassed by eliminating its enemies. Both propositions are dubious.

Obama will nonetheless attempt to jump-start bilateral negotiations with Iran, though time is running out even under the timetables leaked to the media. There are two problems with this approach. First, Tehran isn't going to negotiate in good faith. It hasn't for the past six years with the European Union as our surrogates, and it won't start now. As Clinton said on Tuesday, Iran has "a huge credibility gap" because of its electoral fraud. Second, given Iran's nuclear progress, even if the stronger sanctions Obama has threatened could be agreed upon, they would not prevent Iran from fabricating weapons and delivery systems when it chooses, as it has been striving to do for the past 20 years. Time is too short, and sanctions failed long ago.

Only those most theologically committed to negotiation still believe Iran will fully renounce its nuclear program. Unfortunately, the Obama administration has a "Plan B," which would allow Iran to have a "peaceful" civil nuclear power program while publicly "renouncing" the objective of nuclear weapons. Obama would define such an outcome as "success," even though in reality it would hardly be different from what Iran is doing and saying now. A "peaceful" uranium enrichment program, "peaceful" reactors such as Bushehr and "peaceful" heavy-water projects like that under construction at Arak leave Iran with an enormous breakout capability to produce nuclear weapons in very short order. And anyone who believes the Revolutionary Guard Corps will abandon its weaponization and ballistic missile programs probably believes that there was no fraud in Iran's June 12 election. See "huge credibility gap," supra.

In short, the stolen election and its tumultuous aftermath have dramatically highlighted the strategic and tactical flaws in Obama's game plan. With regime change off the table for the coming critical period in Iran's nuclear program, Israel's decision on using force is both easier and more urgent. Since there is no likelihood that diplomacy will start or finish in time, or even progress far enough to make any real difference, there is no point waiting for negotiations to play out. In fact, given the near certainty of Obama changing his definition of "success," negotiations represent an even more dangerous trap for Israel.

Those who oppose Iran acquiring nuclear weapons are left in the near term with only the option of targeted military force against its weapons facilities. Significantly, the uprising in Iran also makes it more likely that an effective public diplomacy campaign could be waged in the country to explain to Iranians that such an attack is directed against the regime, not against the Iranian people. This was always true, but it has become even more important to make this case emphatically, when the gulf between the Islamic revolution of 1979 and the citizens of Iran has never been clearer or wider. Military action against Iran's nuclear program and the ultimate goal of regime change can be worked together consistently.

Otherwise, be prepared for an Iran with nuclear weapons, which some, including Obama advisers, believe could be contained and deterred. That is not a hypothesis we should seek to test in the real world. The cost of error could be fatal.

The writer, a senior fellow at the American Enterprise Institute, was U.S. ambassador to the United Nations from August 2005 to December 2006 and is the author of "Surrender Is Not an Option: Defending America at the United Nations and Abroad."

I read the author of the article and that's as far as I needed to go.

John Bolton, maybe the most psycho of all psycho neocons on the planet shouldn't have a word he says taken seriously.

If you enjoy having 47% if your income going to pay for warmongering, then by all means approve of the War with Iran. If you enjoy limitless power of an enormous central government in the US. then support this upcoming war.

So for all of you who like big taxes, limited freedoms, big government, then by all means support this war. You're the most liberal people on the planet.

I'm not saying I disagree with you here, but Neville Chamberlain was VERY popular right after Munich. If Churchill had spoken out then, would he have been viewed in the same light as Bolton?
 
I'm not saying I disagree with you here, but Neville Chamberlain was VERY popular right after Munich. If Churchill had spoken out then, would he have been viewed in the same light as Bolton?


There is no way that Obama attacks Iran. That is not ever gonna happen.

Perhaps instead we should be talking about how we are going to deal with other countries in the Middle East who feel they must counter a nuclear Iran.

Like Saudi Arabia, Egypt, the UAE.

Maybe we should think about ending the NPT officially.
 
Don't expect a revolution in Iran. There is no reason for one. Not really.

The Iranian people can see that what the regime is doing is successful. They are winning.

They have confronted the world and have won. They will have their nuclear arsenal.

The biggest problem this creates is that the NPT is basically dead.

Iran's economic problems, disappearing oil surpluses, consistent and persistent violations of the regime's own law, etc. are giving Iranians a great cause for revolution... but this is a government that is very difficult to break. No revolution in Iran wiill be successful unless the oil profits are out of mullah hands.

I actually don't think Iran will build a nuclear weapon, but instead will have all the prerequisites ready to use as a bargaining chip



No, they will develop nuclear weapons. Iran sees itself as a future Super Power.

I don't think they wish to bargain. That has not been it's way.

This is an ideology that does not back down. They see themselves as on a mission from God.

They are an evil regime in the sense that they torture and imprison political prisoners... but aside from those areas of excess, they are an Islamic Republic governing by Islamic Law.

They would consider it evil not to do so. In a nation of Muslims it's very hard to revolt against a regime that is Islamic. First they must judge the regime un-Islamic. Only then can they revolt against it.




They see themselves as on a mission from God.........Hm where have I heard THAT before and don't say the Blues Brothers.
 
Iran's economic problems, disappearing oil surpluses, consistent and persistent violations of the regime's own law, etc. are giving Iranians a great cause for revolution... but this is a government that is very difficult to break. No revolution in Iran wiill be successful unless the oil profits are out of mullah hands.

I actually don't think Iran will build a nuclear weapon, but instead will have all the prerequisites ready to use as a bargaining chip



No, they will develop nuclear weapons. Iran sees itself as a future Super Power.

I don't think they wish to bargain. That has not been it's way.

This is an ideology that does not back down. They see themselves as on a mission from God.

They are an evil regime in the sense that they torture and imprison political prisoners... but aside from those areas of excess, they are an Islamic Republic governing by Islamic Law.

They would consider it evil not to do so. In a nation of Muslims it's very hard to revolt against a regime that is Islamic. First they must judge the regime un-Islamic. Only then can they revolt against it.




They see themselves as on a mission from God.........Hm where have I heard THAT before and don't say the Blues Brothers.

I'm not sure of the answer, but BHO thinks of himself as "an instrument of God".
 
Here is a great article on why iran needs to be attacked ASAP. Rather than respond emotionally, as have so many here have done recently, I would like to see posters come up with point-by-point responses why Bolton's assessment is inaccurate.



By John R. Bolton
Thursday, July 2, 2009
With Iran's hard-line mullahs and the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps unmistakably back in control, Israel's decision of whether to use military force against Tehran's nuclear weapons program is more urgent than ever.

Iran's nuclear threat was never in doubt during its presidential campaign, but the post-election resistance raised the possibility of some sort of regime change. That prospect seems lost for the near future or for at least as long as it will take Iran to finalize a deliverable nuclear weapons capability.

Accordingly, with no other timely option, the already compelling logic for an Israeli strike is nearly inexorable. Israel is undoubtedly ratcheting forward its decision-making process. President Obama is almost certainly not.

He still wants "engagement" (a particularly evocative term now) with Iran's current regime. Last Thursday, the State Department confirmed that Secretary Hillary Clinton spoke to her Russian and Chinese counterparts about "getting Iran back to negotiating on some of these concerns that the international community has." This is precisely the view of Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov, reflected in the Group of Eight communique the next day. Sen. John Kerry thinks the recent election unpleasantness in Tehran will delay negotiations for only a few weeks.

Obama administration sources have opined (anonymously) that Iran will be more eager to negotiate than it was before its election in order to find "acceptance" by the "international community." Some leaks indicated that negotiations had to produce results by the U.N. General Assembly's opening in late September, while others projected that they had until the end of 2009 to show progress. These gauzy scenarios assume that the Tehran regime cares about "acceptance" or is somehow embarrassed by eliminating its enemies. Both propositions are dubious.

Obama will nonetheless attempt to jump-start bilateral negotiations with Iran, though time is running out even under the timetables leaked to the media. There are two problems with this approach. First, Tehran isn't going to negotiate in good faith. It hasn't for the past six years with the European Union as our surrogates, and it won't start now. As Clinton said on Tuesday, Iran has "a huge credibility gap" because of its electoral fraud. Second, given Iran's nuclear progress, even if the stronger sanctions Obama has threatened could be agreed upon, they would not prevent Iran from fabricating weapons and delivery systems when it chooses, as it has been striving to do for the past 20 years. Time is too short, and sanctions failed long ago.

Only those most theologically committed to negotiation still believe Iran will fully renounce its nuclear program. Unfortunately, the Obama administration has a "Plan B," which would allow Iran to have a "peaceful" civil nuclear power program while publicly "renouncing" the objective of nuclear weapons. Obama would define such an outcome as "success," even though in reality it would hardly be different from what Iran is doing and saying now. A "peaceful" uranium enrichment program, "peaceful" reactors such as Bushehr and "peaceful" heavy-water projects like that under construction at Arak leave Iran with an enormous breakout capability to produce nuclear weapons in very short order. And anyone who believes the Revolutionary Guard Corps will abandon its weaponization and ballistic missile programs probably believes that there was no fraud in Iran's June 12 election. See "huge credibility gap," supra.

In short, the stolen election and its tumultuous aftermath have dramatically highlighted the strategic and tactical flaws in Obama's game plan. With regime change off the table for the coming critical period in Iran's nuclear program, Israel's decision on using force is both easier and more urgent. Since there is no likelihood that diplomacy will start or finish in time, or even progress far enough to make any real difference, there is no point waiting for negotiations to play out. In fact, given the near certainty of Obama changing his definition of "success," negotiations represent an even more dangerous trap for Israel.

Those who oppose Iran acquiring nuclear weapons are left in the near term with only the option of targeted military force against its weapons facilities. Significantly, the uprising in Iran also makes it more likely that an effective public diplomacy campaign could be waged in the country to explain to Iranians that such an attack is directed against the regime, not against the Iranian people. This was always true, but it has become even more important to make this case emphatically, when the gulf between the Islamic revolution of 1979 and the citizens of Iran has never been clearer or wider. Military action against Iran's nuclear program and the ultimate goal of regime change can be worked together consistently.

Otherwise, be prepared for an Iran with nuclear weapons, which some, including Obama advisers, believe could be contained and deterred. That is not a hypothesis we should seek to test in the real world. The cost of error could be fatal.

The writer, a senior fellow at the American Enterprise Institute, was U.S. ambassador to the United Nations from August 2005 to December 2006 and is the author of "Surrender Is Not an Option: Defending America at the United Nations and Abroad."

I read the author of the article and that's as far as I needed to go.

John Bolton, maybe the most psycho of all psycho neocons on the planet shouldn't have a word he says taken seriously.

If you enjoy having 47% if your income going to pay for warmongering, then by all means approve of the War with Iran. If you enjoy limitless power of an enormous central government in the US. then support this upcoming war.

So for all of you who like big taxes, limited freedoms, big government, then by all means support this war. You're the most liberal people on the planet.

I'm not saying I disagree with you here, but Neville Chamberlain was VERY popular right after Munich. If Churchill had spoken out then, would he have been viewed in the same light as Bolton?

I hate Bolton... Like I HATE that guy in every way (specially 'cuz he looks like an old Ned Flanders on acid), but I think he genuinely is right on this ONE thing.

Iran's government (if a bunch of thugs should be called a government) is genuinely an enemy to the world. And although I totally opposed the Iraq war, I've always believed that war was just a way for the US to put ground troops near the Iranian border. Because Iran has essentially been progressively at war with the US since 1980.
 
Last edited:
I read the author of the article and that's as far as I needed to go.

John Bolton, maybe the most psycho of all psycho neocons on the planet shouldn't have a word he says taken seriously.

If you enjoy having 47% if your income going to pay for warmongering, then by all means approve of the War with Iran. If you enjoy limitless power of an enormous central government in the US. then support this upcoming war.

So for all of you who like big taxes, limited freedoms, big government, then by all means support this war. You're the most liberal people on the planet.

I'm not saying I disagree with you here, but Neville Chamberlain was VERY popular right after Munich. If Churchill had spoken out then, would he have been viewed in the same light as Bolton?

I hate Bolton... Like I HATE that guy in every way (specially 'cuz he looks like an old Ned Flanders on acid), but I think he genuinely is right on this ONE thing.

Iran's government (if a bunch of thugs should be called a government) is genuinely an enemy to the world. And although I totally opposed the Iraq war, I've always believed that war was just a way for the US to put ground troops near the Iranian border. Because Iran has essentially been progressively at war with the US since 1980.

Iran's government is trash, but there's 100 governments in the world that are worse.

I'm just going to ignore the attempted similarity connection the other poster tried to make between Nazi Germany and the current Irani government. People will say anything, no matter how crazy, to try and strike emotions in political debates.

If you think the Vietnam War was cool, then you'll like an American led war in Iran. This won't be Iraq where it takes years to reach 1,000 dead American soldiers that will happen every single year we fight it. You think this recession sucks? Wait until you see what happens to our economy if we fight a much larger war than the current sized wars that we can't even afford.

And, just like in Afghanistan/Iraq/Vietnam, this will be another war that we lose. The only way to win a war against Iran is to drop enough nukes to cover every square inch of the ground. The Iranian people are big on independence and they'll fight until the last person takes in their last gasp of air. Plus their military is way better than Iraq's was, hence why they crushed Iraq in the war in the 80's you mentioned. The war where we were giving Saddam chemical weapons, gas, money, other weapons to wage war and kill his own women, children and babies with.

There's nothing stupider (no offense) than wanting war with Iran. We'll gain nothing and lose everything. We can't even win a war against the 3rd poorest 3rd world country (Afghanistan) in 8 years, the Taliban controls more of the country than we do.
 
No, they will develop nuclear weapons. Iran sees itself as a future Super Power.

I don't think they wish to bargain. That has not been it's way.

This is an ideology that does not back down. They see themselves as on a mission from God.

They are an evil regime in the sense that they torture and imprison political prisoners... but aside from those areas of excess, they are an Islamic Republic governing by Islamic Law.

They would consider it evil not to do so. In a nation of Muslims it's very hard to revolt against a regime that is Islamic. First they must judge the regime un-Islamic. Only then can they revolt against it.




They see themselves as on a mission from God.........Hm where have I heard THAT before and don't say the Blues Brothers.

I'm not sure of the answer, but BHO thinks of himself as "an instrument of God".

please support your opinion with a link
 
I'm not saying I disagree with you here, but Neville Chamberlain was VERY popular right after Munich. If Churchill had spoken out then, would he have been viewed in the same light as Bolton?

I hate Bolton... Like I HATE that guy in every way (specially 'cuz he looks like an old Ned Flanders on acid), but I think he genuinely is right on this ONE thing.

Iran's government (if a bunch of thugs should be called a government) is genuinely an enemy to the world. And although I totally opposed the Iraq war, I've always believed that war was just a way for the US to put ground troops near the Iranian border. Because Iran has essentially been progressively at war with the US since 1980.

Iran's government is trash, but there's 100 governments in the world that are worse.

I'm just going to ignore the attempted similarity connection the other poster tried to make between Nazi Germany and the current Irani government. People will say anything, no matter how crazy, to try and strike emotions in political debates.

If you think the Vietnam War was cool, then you'll like an American led war in Iran. This won't be Iraq where it takes years to reach 1,000 dead American soldiers that will happen every single year we fight it. You think this recession sucks? Wait until you see what happens to our economy if we fight a much larger war than the current sized wars that we can't even afford.

And, just like in Afghanistan/Iraq/Vietnam, this will be another war that we lose. The only way to win a war against Iran is to drop enough nukes to cover every square inch of the ground. The Iranian people are big on independence and they'll fight until the last person takes in their last gasp of air. Plus their military is way better than Iraq's was, hence why they crushed Iraq in the war in the 80's you mentioned. The war where we were giving Saddam chemical weapons, gas, money, other weapons to wage war and kill his own women, children and babies with.

There's nothing stupider (no offense) than wanting war with Iran. We'll gain nothing and lose everything. We can't even win a war against the 3rd poorest 3rd world country (Afghanistan) in 8 years, the Taliban controls more of the country than we do.

I've said as much in other posts, don't get me wrong. I feel the US SHOULD go to war with Iran because, in reality, Iran has been waging war on the US indirectly for decades.

And btw, I also feel the US has done some horrendous things to Iranians since and after 1953. I remember a quote from a senior US official to the UN regarding Saddam's chemical weapons, where he said something along the lines of 'It's a difficult situation. You want Iraq to stop using chemical weapons, but on the other hand... you don't want Iran to win the war!" I mean that is a borderline evil thing to say, and it was the US policy towards Iran.

HOWEVER, I agree that the costs are way too high for this war. I would not support a US or Israeli attack on Iran. My main argument is against people that assume that the attack on Iran would be morally as low as the attack on Iraq. To say so is to seriously diminish the threat posed by Iran.

I agree with what you say about the costs of war, and actually would go further by saying what I've already probably said 10X (and I'm paraphrasing an scholar whose name I can't remember unfortunately): If you were to hold referendums today in the Middle East, every single country with one exception would have a theocratic government like Iran's. The exception is of course Iran itself. If the US were to attack, this reality would change.

But I don't agree with the statement that there are other countries more dangerous than Iran. One, it is in the single most important region of the world, surrounded by allies of the US, controlling or influencing the vast majority of the flow of energy around the world.

Two, it has imperial ambitions. The revolution was from the start meant to be a starting point for the spread of the new Shia empire. On top of that, the rather extreme ethnocentrism and nationalism of Iranians who consider themselves superior to Arabs is just a powderkeg waiting to explode as soon as Iran becomes the single dominant nation in the region. For years Iranians and Russians have been building towards a middle east controlled by Iran and influenced by Russia. It is a very rational consequence of the departure of US influence in the region (and the original reason for US interferance in Iran since thd 1920s).

If North Korea nukes Japan, it would be unbelievably horrendous. But it couldn't damage the entire world economy. If Iran got into a war with its very natural enemy, Saudi Arabia... can you imagine the consequences? The entire world economy would be brought to its knees.

Again, I don't say the US MUST attack. But if we're talking about a country that has to look at its best interests and the interest of its allies in the region (not just Israel), you do have to make the case that the US would not be in the same moral position as it was with Iraq (a country that was not a genuine threat after the first gulf war, and had been tortured through air attacks and sanctions for over a decade).

But Iran has a very advanced ballistic missles industry that, as a military spokesman of the IRI said "manufactures bombs the same way it can manufacture books." It could cause inmense, borderline fatal damage to Israel as well as tens of thousands of bystanding US troops in Southern Iraq. So I understand and generally agree with what you're saying. I'm just not willing to say that it's just another country like Cuba or Lybia, and that the US has no reason to attack.
 
Last edited:
Back
Top Bottom