Three things about Islam

[manifold]

Take a look at this and it should be clear why I posted this in the politics forum rather than the religion forum.


[youtube]Ib9rofXQl6w[/youtube]

 

[xotoxi]

8 minutes, 10 seconds.

Nope.

 

[Tom Clancy]

8 minutes, 10 seconds.

Nope.

What he said.

 

[manifold]

8 minutes, 10 seconds.

Nope.

It's well worth it IMO.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Excellent video. Too bad it will be dismissed as intolerance.

 

[ConHog]

good video mani, thanks for posting, too bad many will just call it lies.

 

[shintao]

good video mani, thanks for posting, too bad many will just call it lies.

Informative, yet we can say that about the Black book, and some so-called christian would call it lies. That ol tit4tat BS.

First there is no invisible man up there in the sky, just a bunch of hallucinating people down here on the ground, broken into various thought processes of what they want their gods to be. From that fact, we can conclude the religious books are bullshit and should be moved over to the fantasy collections at the library.

There should be an intense effort to destroy all religious books where ever they are found all over the globe, lock up all these lunatics and burn and destroy any sign of them ever being here.

 

[manifold]

8 minutes, 10 seconds.

Nope.

What he said.

give it 30 seconds

i triple dog dare you

 

[ConHog]

good video mani, thanks for posting, too bad many will just call it lies.

Informative, yet we can say that about the Black book, and some so-called christian would call it lies. That ol tit4tat BS.

First there is no invisible man in the up there in the sky, just a bunch of hallucinating people down here on the ground, broken into various thought processes of what they want their gods to be. From that fact, we can conclude the religious books are bullshit and should be moved over to the fantasy collections at the library.

How about you make an attempt to act like a decent human being? I won't discuss my belief in God with you, and you keep your disbelief in God to yourself.

 

[shintao]

good video mani, thanks for posting, too bad many will just call it lies.

Informative, yet we can say that about the Black book, and some so-called christian would call it lies. That ol tit4tat BS.

First there is no invisible man in the up there in the sky, just a bunch of hallucinating people down here on the ground, broken into various thought processes of what they want their gods to be. From that fact, we can conclude the religious books are bullshit and should be moved over to the fantasy collections at the library.

How about you make an attempt to act like a decent human being? I won't discuss my belief in God with you, and you keep your disbelief in God to yourself.

Sorry, as long as the Christian throws it out there as reality, I will refute it. And by the way I am a decent human being, live a decent life, a humanitarian way of life, and feel the 1st Amendment is there for whoever wants to use it. Where you received anything to refute my character is beyond me. I think you are showing a bias, for whatever reason known only to you.

 

[ConHog]

Informative, yet we can say that about the Black book, and some so-called christian would call it lies. That ol tit4tat BS.

First there is no invisible man in the up there in the sky, just a bunch of hallucinating people down here on the ground, broken into various thought processes of what they want their gods to be. From that fact, we can conclude the religious books are bullshit and should be moved over to the fantasy collections at the library.

How about you make an attempt to act like a decent human being? I won't discuss my belief in God with you, and you keep your disbelief in God to yourself.

Sorry, as long as the Christian throws it out there as reality, I will refute it. And by the way I am a decent human being, live a decent life, a humanitarian way of life, and feel the 1st Amendment is there for whoever wants to use it. Where you received anything to refute my character is beyond me. I think you are showing a bias, for whatever reason known only to you.

Gee, why would I be biased towards someone who calls my faith a fairy tale? Ever hear of live and let live? Enjoy eternity in a lake of fire. See that wasn't cool was it?

 

[Political Junky]

Take a look at this and it should be clear why I posted this in the politics forum rather than the religion forum.


[youtube]Ib9rofXQl6w[/youtube]

That video will be popular with those who fear Islam.
As the disclaimer [in blue} says, it's just one man's opinion.

PLEASE READ!: The contents of the above post is the educated opinion of the author. At times, said opinion is so strong it gets stated as fact. This is simply how the author chooses to express his deeply held opinion and should not be misconstrued to suggest more. Or it's a joke. Deal.

 

[shintao]

How about you make an attempt to act like a decent human being? I won't discuss my belief in God with you, and you keep your disbelief in God to yourself.

Sorry, as long as the Christian throws it out there as reality, I will refute it. And by the way I am a decent human being, live a decent life, a humanitarian way of life, and feel the 1st Amendment is there for whoever wants to use it. Where you received anything to refute my character is beyond me. I think you are showing a bias, for whatever reason known only to you.

Gee, why would I be biased towards someone who calls my faith a fairy tale? Ever hear of live and let live? Enjoy eternity in a lake of fire. See that wasn't cool was it?

I heard of live & let live, which clearly states your right to say it ends where my right to refute begins. And forget the lake of fire, that mumbo jumbo only refers to christians like youself, and not non believers like me. I am in no way affected by your gods or demons. But you are, so act like a christian and go by the black book you are suppose to believe in.

Now getting back to the topic, I see some simularities between the Koran & black book. For instance, the christian is being told to abandon the Old Testament, and carry on from the new testament. The Koran says to use the later writings, not the first. And the black book contains some passages that the Koran agrees with, like,...

They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman. (2 Chronicles 15:12-13 NAB)

Sound familar huh?

 

[shintao]

Take a look at this and it should be clear why I posted this in the politics forum rather than the religion forum.


[youtube]Ib9rofXQl6w[/youtube]

That video will be popular with those who fear Islam.
As the disclaimer [in blue} says, it's just one man's opinion.

PLEASE READ!: The contents of the above post is the educated opinion of the author. At times, said opinion is so strong it gets stated as fact. This is simply how the author chooses to express his deeply held opinion and should not be misconstrued to suggest more. Or it's a joke. Deal.

I think he did good to tell the truth, but he could have supported his tape with some quotes from the head-muslim, whoever he is. It would follow that if they now added chapters to refute the violence, then we could all live happily everafter, because they would follow the later, rather than the former text.

 

[Political Junky]

The Old Testament [Torah] calls for hideous punishments. Killing disobedient children, or selling them into slavery.

 

[Kalam]

I was expecting some sort of a bibliography at the end. No matter; I'm sure that seeing something on Youtube is proof enough for most of the credulous twits who watch videos like this. You've discovered the master plan.

 

[Kalam]

he could have supported his tape with some quotes from the head-muslim, whoever he is.

 

[shintao]

I was expecting some sort of a bibliography at the end. No matter; I'm sure that seeing something on Youtube is proof enough for most of the credulous twits who watch videos like this. You've discovered the master plan.

So did you disagree with anything he said, or did you find anything in the tape misleading that you would want to share with us, and back up by factual evidence?

I am a skeptic of all religion, so show no bias, but I would ask a centeral question, What makes Islam better than Christianity?

 

[shintao]

he could have supported his tape with some quotes from the head-muslim, whoever he is.

Thats the best I can do K. I am just that out of touch with Muslims & their beliefs.

 

[Kalam]

So did you disagree with anything he said, or did you find anything in the tape misleading that you would want to share with us,

The video consists entirely of half-truths and intentionally misleading hype.

I should begin by pointing out that any Muslim who becomes involved in an argument of this nature this finds himself caught in a catch-22: If Muslims are commanded to "lie to the infidel", anything I say can be dismissed flatly as "Muslim lies." If you're going to participate in this discussion under the assumption that I'm a liar, it will go nowhere. If not, perhaps we can learn a few things from each other.

The first problem with the video is how it presents the Qur'an. The Qur'an wasn't something that a person decided to write one day; It is, to us, the word of Allah ta'ala delivered to humanity through His Messenger, Muhammad (SAWS). It was revealed piecemeal over a period of more than 22 years and consists largely of commandments that are specific to a particular time and situation. As such, a few revelations became inapplicable as circumstances changed.

The "contradictions" the video mentions refer to an Islamic concept know as nasikh and mansukh, the abrogator and the abrogated. It is based on the following ayah:

Whatever message We abrogate or cause to be forgotten, We bring one better than it or one like it. Knowest thou not that Allah is Possessor of power over all things? - 2:106​

There are multiple problems with claiming that all peaceful passages in the Qur'an have been abrogated. First of all, anybody making this claim takes for granted that they possess sufficient knowledge of Islam to make judgments of that importance. As non-Muslims, the makers of this video obviously do not. Secondly, there is no basis for claiming that any particular commandment has been abrogated unless there is a specific statement attributable to Muhammad (SAWS) himself that says so. Finally, it is not a consensus or even a prevalent opinion among Muslims or scholars that every call for peace in the Qur'an has been abrogated. One of the most authoritative rulings on the subject can be found in As-Suyuti's Itqan fi 'ulum al-Qur'an. The chapter devoted to abrogation identifies 21 ayat that may be nasikh or mansukh; the rest are not. As-Suyuti was a 15th-century Egyptian expert in Islamic jurisprudence. The issue was taken up again by 18th-century South Asian scholar Shah Waliullah, who concluded that only five of As-Suyuti's verses were actually subject to abrogation. They are as follows:

2: 180, abrogated by 4: 11, 12
2:240, abrogated by 2: 234.
8:65, abrogated by 8: 62.
30:50, abrogated by 33: 52.
58: 12, abrogated by 58: 13.

In none of these instances do we find a peaceful injunction being replaced by a violent one.

If anyone can prove that each peaceful verse was abrogated by a more violent passage and back up each assertion with a specific explanation from Muhammad (SAWS), the video's claim will be correct. Otherwise, it is not.

The next incorrect claim is that Shari'ah is totalitarian. Shari'ah, when properly implemented, is a just and accountable form of governance. Note that as Sayyid Qutb pointed out, no government in today's so-called Islamic world practices Shari'ah in it's pure and uncorrupted form.

The Rashidun caliphs (Abu Bakr, Umar, Uthman, and 'Ali -- RA) made it clear that everyone was free to petition them for a redress of grievances and that they were the subjects of their people. Shari'i governance can only be understood by examining their methods of political administration, as those are the examples after which we Muslims should be modeling our own governments.

Finally, there is the claim that "the Qur'an instructs Muslims to lie to infidels." I challenge anybody to post the specific verse or verses from the Qur'an that command me to "lie to infidels." Nobody has ever been able to, because they don't exist. The issue of prevarication is dealt with in the ahadith.

...Ibn Shihab said he did not hear that exemption was granted in anything that the people speak dishonestly but in three instances: in battle, for bringing reconciliation between persons (as in a minor dispute between two people), and the narration of the words of the husband to his wife, and the narration of the words of a wife to her husband (in order to bring reconciliation between them.) - Sahih Muslim, no. 6303​

I can only "lie to infidels" if I'm actively engaged in an armed conflict with them and need to do so to protect my life. There is absolutely nothing about lying to spread Islam, and again, I challenge anyone to support that claim with specific evidence if they feel that they can do so.