Thread to make your brain hurt

[PaintMyHouse]

The physics version of this question is,

"If the universe is expanding in all directions, what's it expanding into?"

The theory is Its expanding to a vast dark, dead emptiness, When all the stars have used up all their fuel.
Personally I think the idea that universes come and go in cycles is more appealing.

My personal hypothesis is universes are no different than galaxies. Many, not one.

Problem here though is do all universes expand? If so aren't other universes expanding into each other "overwriting" the space they occupy? Is there some kind of repellent force like we have with atoms so solid things don't fall through other solid things (us falling through the floor for example.)

And if the universe isn't the Absolute Everything and just a small part of a greater whole, what created or caused the greater whole?

It's a somewhat disturbing thing to try and wrap our heads around and is responsible for my inability to fall asleep on more than one occasion.

I was thinking that even if the universe continues to expand for eternity it could still be cyclic as there might be a new big bang in the middle of it that would consume the old universe and replace it.

The bang came from a singularity. It's has to shrink to nothing to explode to something.

 

[PaintMyHouse]

"The Tzimtzum (Hebrew צמצום ṣimṣūm "contraction/constriction/condensation") is a term used in the Lurianic Kabbalah teaching of Isaac Luria, to explain his new doctrine that God began the process of creation by "contracting" his infinite light in order to allow for a "conceptual space" in which finite and seemingly independent realms could exist. This primordial initial contraction, forming a Khalal/Khalal Hapanui ("vacant space", חלל הפנוי) into which new creative light could beam, is denoted by general reference to the Tzimtzum. In contrast to earlier, Medieval Kabbalah, this made the first creative act a concealment/Divine exile rather than unfolding revelation. This dynamic crisis-catharsis in the Divine flow is repeated throughout the Lurianic scheme.

Because the Tzimtzum results in the "empty space" in which spiritual and physical Worlds and ultimately, free will can exist, God is often referred to as "Ha-Makom" (המקום lit. "the Place", "the Omnipresent") in Rabbinic literature ("He is the Place of the World, but the World is not His Place"[2]). In Kabbalistic interpretation, this describes the paradox of simultaneous Divine presence and absence within the vacuum and resultant Creation. Relatedly, Olam — the Hebrew for "World/Realm" — is derived from the root עלם meaning "concealment". This etymology is complementary with the concept of Tzimtzum, in that the subsequent spiritual realms and the ultimate physical universe, conceal to different degrees the infinite spiritual lifeforce of creation. Their progressive diminutions of the Divine Ohr (Light) from realm to realm in creation, are also referred to in the plural as secondary tzimtzumim (innumerable "condensations/veilings/constrictions" of the lifeforce). However, these subsequent concealments are found in earlier, Medieval Kabbalah. The new doctrine of Luria advanced the notion of the primordial withdrawal (a dilug - radical "leap"), in order to reconcile a causal creative chain from the Infinite, with finite Existence."


Tzimtzum - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

 

[RetiredGySgt]

The physics version of this question is,

"If the universe is expanding in all directions, what's it expanding into?"

There is no compelling evidence that the Universe is expanding. We can see so little and measure so little it is hilarious when scientists make claims like that.

 

[zaangalewa]

... "If the universe is expanding in all directions, what's it expanding into?"

In this case I would avoid the expression "expand" and would ask "How is the universe producing space?" Could be that's a more easy question in this context for phycicists. From a spiritual point of view it's more interesting to see: If the universe expands from all directions into all directions then every point of the universe is always in the middle of the universe. A structure where everything is always in the middle has no outside.

 

[zaangalewa]

... Your assumption is that God created the universe out of nothing. That's not what the Bible teaches

"World" means somehow "word of the Lord". God created the world with his word. Lots of Christians who tried out to find out what means "god is logos" found out "god made everything out of nothing". No one was able to falsify this hypothese about the world since an unbelievable long time - 1st or 2nd century. Everyone who seriously tried to find out wether this is right or wrong found something what made it more plausible.

What do you think existed in our sphere of possible experiences before god started to create the world?

 

[Delta4Embassy]

"The Tzimtzum (Hebrew צמצום ṣimṣūm "contraction/constriction/condensation") is a term used in the Lurianic Kabbalah teaching of Isaac Luria, to explain his new doctrine that God began the process of creation by "contracting" his infinite light in order to allow for a "conceptual space" in which finite and seemingly independent realms could exist. This primordial initial contraction, forming a Khalal/Khalal Hapanui ("vacant space", חלל הפנוי) into which new creative light could beam, is denoted by general reference to the Tzimtzum. In contrast to earlier, Medieval Kabbalah, this made the first creative act a concealment/Divine exile rather than unfolding revelation. This dynamic crisis-catharsis in the Divine flow is repeated throughout the Lurianic scheme.

Because the Tzimtzum results in the "empty space" in which spiritual and physical Worlds and ultimately, free will can exist, God is often referred to as "Ha-Makom" (המקום lit. "the Place", "the Omnipresent") in Rabbinic literature ("He is the Place of the World, but the World is not His Place"[2]). In Kabbalistic interpretation, this describes the paradox of simultaneous Divine presence and absence within the vacuum and resultant Creation. Relatedly, Olam — the Hebrew for "World/Realm" — is derived from the root עלם meaning "concealment". This etymology is complementary with the concept of Tzimtzum, in that the subsequent spiritual realms and the ultimate physical universe, conceal to different degrees the infinite spiritual lifeforce of creation. Their progressive diminutions of the Divine Ohr (Light) from realm to realm in creation, are also referred to in the plural as secondary tzimtzumim (innumerable "condensations/veilings/constrictions" of the lifeforce). However, these subsequent concealments are found in earlier, Medieval Kabbalah. The new doctrine of Luria advanced the notion of the primordial withdrawal (a dilug - radical "leap"), in order to reconcile a causal creative chain from the Infinite, with finite Existence."


Tzimtzum - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Nice to see someone else enjoys stuff like this.

 

[Delta4Embassy]

The physics version of this question is,

"If the universe is expanding in all directions, what's it expanding into?"

There is no compelling evidence that the Universe is expanding. We can see so little and measure so little it is hilarious when scientists make claims like that.

Uh, google red shift. There's rather a lot of evidence it's expanding.

 

[Steven_R]

The physics version of this question is,

"If the universe is expanding in all directions, what's it expanding into?"

Nothing. There is literally nothing for the universe to expand into. The universe is expanding into non-existence.

 

[Steven_R]

The physics version of this question is,

"If the universe is expanding in all directions, what's it expanding into?"

There is no compelling evidence that the Universe is expanding. We can see so little and measure so little it is hilarious when scientists make claims like that.

It's not only expanding, but it's accelerating. We don't know why. It's tentatively called Dark Energy and that expansion accounts for about 75% of the total mass/energy of the universe.

 

[Delta4Embassy]

"Astronomers have found that whole clusters of galaxies are moving in convoy towards a single point in the sky. This unexpected motion appears to be separate from the expansion of the universe and the researchers even suggest that a force beyond the visible universe is the culprit. The discovery has been named "dark flow".

Cosmologists have already observed two distinct effects caused by invisible entities in the universe: dark matter is known to affect the rotation of galaxies and dark energy seems to be causing the expansion of the universe to accelerate. Dark flow is the latest addition to this shadowy family.

The result is significant because it cannot be accounted for by the known distribution of matter; something outside of the visible universe may be pulling on the clusters...
The theory of inflation suggests that the early universe was like cosmic foam made up of many bubbles. One of these bubbles underwent a huge and rapid expansion, when the universe was just 10–36 seconds old, to become the universe that we see today. It is our neighbouring bubbles that Kashlinsky holds responsible for these migrating galaxy clusters.

"Inflation says that if you go to sufficiently large scales you should see structure that is outside this bubble, outside of our universe. If we live in such a world these structures would cause this motion and we suspect that this is what we are seeing," he said.

The findings are published in Astrophysical Journal Letters."
Mysterious dark flow at the edge of the universe - physicsworld.com

 

[Agit8r]

Another thing is this:

Did God create the universe? Or did the universe create God? If God created the universe over 13 billion years ago, but the Earth is only about 4.6 billion years old, what was God doing for the first 9 billion or so years?

Humans created the various gods.


The Beginning of Time - Stephen Hawking

Could the Universe Have Always Existed - Articles - ioLanche

We're assuming God exists here.

Devil's advocate?

 

[iamwhatiseem]

Which is really something since our brains don't have pain receptors.

When God created the universe, where was God?

If you're creating the universe, you're obviously not inside of it yet since it doesn't exist. So what was God "floating" in when He created the universe?

Another universe?

A literal nothing?

Other?

That doesn't make your brain hurt.
What makes your brain hurt is the question... can nothing exist?

 

[RetiredGySgt]

The physics version of this question is,

"If the universe is expanding in all directions, what's it expanding into?"

There is no compelling evidence that the Universe is expanding. We can see so little and measure so little it is hilarious when scientists make claims like that.

Uh, google red shift. There's rather a lot of evidence it's expanding.

No there isn't all we can see is around our own solar system and not much of that.

 

[zaangalewa]

Which is really something since our brains don't have pain receptors.

When God created the universe, where was God?

If you're creating the universe, you're obviously not inside of it yet since it doesn't exist. So what was God "floating" in when He created the universe?

Another universe?

A literal nothing?

Other?

That doesn't make your brain hurt.
What makes your brain hurt is the question... can nothing exist?

We know "something is existing" because we are existing on our own. So what about this question: "Why seems it to be more easy for nothing not to exist?" A million years ago you and I did not exist - now we are existing - and we know for sure: in a million years we will not exist any longer. But there's a difference between both nothings - the nothing we were on our own before we came into this world - and the nothing we will be after we will leave this world. Everyone came into this world because of the situation of the world. Everyone is a result - an answer - of the situations what had happened before. But this situations will never be again the same. After our death there will be no need to come back again. We will be another form of nothing than we were before our birth. Before our birth we were somehow here - although we were not existing - after our death we will never come back. Except maybe if we are more than only one answer.

 

[zaangalewa]

... No there isn't all we can see is around our own solar system and not much of that.

The international team of phycicists around Xue-Bing Wu in the university of Bejing found for example a black hole with the mass of 13 billion suns in a distance of 12.8 billion lightyears. This Quasar has the number SDSS J0100+2802. The galaxy around the black hole and quasar lightens with the intensity of 420,000,000,000,000 suns.

 

[Delta4Embassy]

The physics version of this question is,

"If the universe is expanding in all directions, what's it expanding into?"

There is no compelling evidence that the Universe is expanding. We can see so little and measure so little it is hilarious when scientists make claims like that.

Uh, google red shift. There's rather a lot of evidence it's expanding.

No there isn't all we can see is around our own solar system and not much of that.

I've read a lot of stupid things from people here and on other sites, but this is SO stupid I have to think you're kidding. No one's THAT dumb.

 

[iamwhatiseem]

Which is really something since our brains don't have pain receptors.

When God created the universe, where was God?

If you're creating the universe, you're obviously not inside of it yet since it doesn't exist. So what was God "floating" in when He created the universe?

Another universe?

A literal nothing?

Other?

That doesn't make your brain hurt.
What makes your brain hurt is the question... can nothing exist?

We know "something is existing" because we are existing on our own. So what about this question: "Why seems it to be more easy for nothing not to exist?" A million years ago you and I did not exist - now we are existing - and we know for sure: in a million years we will not exist any longer. But there's a difference between both nothings - the nothing we were on our own before we came into this world - and the nothing we will be after we will leave this world. Everyone came into this world because of the situation of the world. Everyone is a result - an answer - of the situations what had happened before. But this situations will never be again the same. After our death there will be no need to come back again. We will be another form of nothing than we were before our birth. Before our birth we were somehow here - although we were not existing - after our death we will never come back. Except maybe if we are more than only one answer.

I mean nothing in the physical sense.
What is nothing? A seemingly simple question, until you ask a physicist.
Can nothing exist is a question that physicist have held whole conferences on, and no one has yet answered definitively. Perhaps no one ever will.
We know for instance, that in the deepest/farthest regions of space where there are no stars for trillions of miles, temperature is very close to absolute zero...there is still gravity, so something is there.
And then there is dark matter.
Nothing may not exist.

 

[Delta4Embassy]

Which is really something since our brains don't have pain receptors.

When God created the universe, where was God?

If you're creating the universe, you're obviously not inside of it yet since it doesn't exist. So what was God "floating" in when He created the universe?

Another universe?

A literal nothing?

Other?

That doesn't make your brain hurt.
What makes your brain hurt is the question... can nothing exist?

We know "something is existing" because we are existing on our own. So what about this question: "Why seems it to be more easy for nothing not to exist?" A million years ago you and I did not exist - now we are existing - and we know for sure: in a million years we will not exist any longer. But there's a difference between both nothings - the nothing we were on our own before we came into this world - and the nothing we will be after we will leave this world. Everyone came into this world because of the situation of the world. Everyone is a result - an answer - of the situations what had happened before. But this situations will never be again the same. After our death there will be no need to come back again. We will be another form of nothing than we were before our birth. Before our birth we were somehow here - although we were not existing - after our death we will never come back. Except maybe if we are more than only one answer.

I mean nothing in the physical sense.
What is nothing? A seemingly simple question, until you ask a physicist.
Can nothing exist is a question that physicist have held whole conferences on, and no one has yet answered definitively. Perhaps no one ever will.
We know for instance, that in the deepest/farthest regions of space where there are no stars for trillions of miles, temperature is very close to absolute zero...there is still gravity, so something is there.
And then there is dark matter.
Nothing may not exist.

Good episode of Through the Wormhole tackled the question "What Is Nothing?" Basicly they explained that a literal nothing can't exist. Even if all you have is time-space itself, that's still something. Since time-space can warp naturally during Inflation, and perhaps artifically, it's still something real or "solid."

 

[amrchaos]

Another thing is this:

Did God create the universe? Or did the universe create God? If God created the universe over 13 billion years ago, but the Earth is only about 4.6 billion years old, what was God doing for the first 9 billion or so years?

Playing solitaire?

 

[zaangalewa]

... I've read a lot of stupid things from people here and on other sites, but this is SO stupid I have to think you're kidding. No one's THAT dumb.

Forgetting one's own misdeeds generates insolence.
Democritus

His hypothese about the world is falsifyable - while your answer is the paradox it likes to deny on its own.