Thomas Sowell quotes. Let's watch how this drives the racists on the left crazy.

[bripat9643]

Oh, he has some things to say about race that the left won't like, too.

“The history of which peoples, nations, or civilizations have conquered or enslaved which other peoples, nations, or civilizations has been largely a history of who has been in a position to do so.”
― Thomas Sowell, Black Rednecks and White Liberals

“Lack of awareness or concern for the context and constraints of the times is only part of the problem of those today assessing such historic figures as Washington, Jefferson, and Lincoln - or the American nation as a whole.”
― Thomas Sowell, Black Rednecks and White Liberals

“From a narrow perspective, the lesson that some draw from the history of slavery, automatically conceived of as the enslavement of blacks by whites, is that white people were or are uniquely evil. Against the broader background of world history, however, a very different lesson might be that no people of any color can be trusted with unbridled power over any other people, for such power has been grossly abused by whatever race, class, or political authority has held that power, whether under ancient despotism or modern totalitarianism, as well as under serfdom, slavery, or other forms of oppression.”
― Thomas Sowell, Black Rednecks & White Liberals

“The burgeoning of the American welfare state in the second half of the twentieth century and the declining effectiveness of the American criminal justice system at the same time allowed borrowed and counterproductive cultural traits to continue and flourish among those blacks who had not yet moved beyond that culture, thereby prolonging the life of a chaotic, counterproductive, dangerous, and self-destructive subculture in many urban ghettos.”
― Thomas Sowell, Black Rednecks & White Liberals

It is actually very revealing to me that you mistakenly think that these quotes would automatically upset “leftists.” The first three are certainly true and no real leftist or serious historian would disagree with them. Even the fourth quote is correct ... to a certain degree and within very strict limits, ignoring of course many other important factors.

The problem of many Conservatives — and almost all Trump fanatics who pretend to be conservative — is that they themselves know nothing about history and are forced to stereotype the views of their opponents on the left. It is, after all, always easiest to win an argument against ... a straw man.

Here's an expert on American history:

​

“We hold these truths to be self-evident, All men and women created by — you know, you know, the thing.” ​

​

- Joe Biden -​

 

[bripat9643]

Oh, he has some things to say about race that the left won't like, too.

“The history of which peoples, nations, or civilizations have conquered or enslaved which other peoples, nations, or civilizations has been largely a history of who has been in a position to do so.”
― Thomas Sowell, Black Rednecks and White Liberals

“Lack of awareness or concern for the context and constraints of the times is only part of the problem of those today assessing such historic figures as Washington, Jefferson, and Lincoln - or the American nation as a whole.”
― Thomas Sowell, Black Rednecks and White Liberals

“From a narrow perspective, the lesson that some draw from the history of slavery, automatically conceived of as the enslavement of blacks by whites, is that white people were or are uniquely evil. Against the broader background of world history, however, a very different lesson might be that no people of any color can be trusted with unbridled power over any other people, for such power has been grossly abused by whatever race, class, or political authority has held that power, whether under ancient despotism or modern totalitarianism, as well as under serfdom, slavery, or other forms of oppression.”
― Thomas Sowell, Black Rednecks & White Liberals

“The burgeoning of the American welfare state in the second half of the twentieth century and the declining effectiveness of the American criminal justice system at the same time allowed borrowed and counterproductive cultural traits to continue and flourish among those blacks who had not yet moved beyond that culture, thereby prolonging the life of a chaotic, counterproductive, dangerous, and self-destructive subculture in many urban ghettos.”
― Thomas Sowell, Black Rednecks & White Liberals

It is actually very revealing to me that you mistakenly think that these quotes would automatically upset “leftists.” The first three are certainly true and no real leftist or serious historian would disagree with them. Even the fourth quote is correct ... to a certain degree and within very strict limits, ignoring of course many other important factors.

The problem of many Conservatives — and almost all Trump fanatics who pretend to be conservative — is that they themselves know nothing about history and are forced to stereotype the views of their opponents on the left. It is, after all, always easiest to win an argument against ... a straw man.

It's actually very revealing to ME that you either don't listen to the left, or you refuse to believe they mean what they say. No one who is advocating "intersectionalism", race victimhood, and "America was founded on its uniquely evil racism and slavery" - and the left most certainly DOES advocate all three - is going to be okay with Sowell's quotes.

Btw, his fourth quote is entirely correct in the context of his book. You should read it.

One problem of many leftists is that they think they know history because they know their own invented theories about it. A second problem is that they think everyone lives in confirmation bias bubbles just because they do. It's actually not possible for anyone on the right to live their lives without hearing what the left says, thinks, and believes multiple times every day. YOU stereotype, because you can and do avoid ever actually hearing or conversing with actual conservatives; WE simply listen to what leftists say and move forward with it.

By all means, prove me wrong. Show me this "straw man" I'm using, how leftists don't routinely promote views of race in America that run directly contrary to Sowell's quotes. Prove to me how the left doesn't insist that slavery is an American sin, rather than a human one. Prove to me how the left doesn't reject - vociferously and angrily - any idea of context being applied to historical figures. Prove to me how the left doesn't promote the idea that white people are uniquely bad and sinful and oppressive, simply by being white.

Prove to me that you deserve this snotty tone of superiority you have the gall to adopt.

 

[Tom Paine 1949]

Oh, he has some things to say about race that the left won't like, too.

“The history of which peoples, nations, or civilizations have conquered or enslaved which other peoples, nations, or civilizations has been largely a history of who has been in a position to do so.”
― Thomas Sowell, Black Rednecks and White Liberals

“Lack of awareness or concern for the context and constraints of the times is only part of the problem of those today assessing such historic figures as Washington, Jefferson, and Lincoln - or the American nation as a whole.”
― Thomas Sowell, Black Rednecks and White Liberals

“From a narrow perspective, the lesson that some draw from the history of slavery, automatically conceived of as the enslavement of blacks by whites, is that white people were or are uniquely evil. Against the broader background of world history, however, a very different lesson might be that no people of any color can be trusted with unbridled power over any other people, for such power has been grossly abused by whatever race, class, or political authority has held that power, whether under ancient despotism or modern totalitarianism, as well as under serfdom, slavery, or other forms of oppression.”
― Thomas Sowell, Black Rednecks & White Liberals

“The burgeoning of the American welfare state in the second half of the twentieth century and the declining effectiveness of the American criminal justice system at the same time allowed borrowed and counterproductive cultural traits to continue and flourish among those blacks who had not yet moved beyond that culture, thereby prolonging the life of a chaotic, counterproductive, dangerous, and self-destructive subculture in many urban ghettos.”
― Thomas Sowell, Black Rednecks & White Liberals

It is actually very revealing to me that you mistakenly think that these quotes would automatically upset “leftists.” The first three are certainly true and no real leftist or serious historian would disagree with them. Even the fourth quote is correct ... to a certain degree and within very strict limits, ignoring of course many other important factors.

The problem of many Conservatives — and almost all Trump fanatics who pretend to be conservative — is that they themselves know nothing about history and are forced to stereotype the views of their opponents on the left. It is, after all, always easiest to win an argument against ... a straw man.

It's actually very revealing to ME that you either don't listen to the left, or you refuse to believe they mean what they say. No one who is advocating "intersectionalism", race victimhood, and "America was founded on its uniquely evil racism and slavery" - and the left most certainly DOES advocate all three - is going to be okay with Sowell's quotes.

Btw, his fourth quote is entirely correct in the context of his book. You should read it.

One problem of many leftists is that they think they know history because they know their own invented theories about it. A second problem is that they think everyone lives in confirmation bias bubbles just because they do. It's actually not possible for anyone on the right to live their lives without hearing what the left says, thinks, and believes multiple times every day. YOU stereotype, because you can and do avoid ever actually hearing or conversing with actual conservatives; WE simply listen to what leftists say and move forward with it.

By all means, prove me wrong. Show me this "straw man" I'm using, how leftists don't routinely promote views of race in America that run directly contrary to Sowell's quotes. Prove to me how the left doesn't insist that slavery is an American sin, rather than a human one. Prove to me how the left doesn't reject - vociferously and angrily - any idea of context being applied to historical figures. Prove to me how the left doesn't promote the idea that white people are uniquely bad and sinful and oppressive, simply by being white.

Prove to me that you deserve this snotty tone of superiority you have the gall to adopt.

Well, I’m not so stupid as to try “to prove” anything to you. That’s not any part of my purpose here at USMB. I have already explained to you that I do not think any serious “leftist” or for that matter any serious historian would argue with 3 of the 4 quotes you offered as things that leftists could not accept. They were all rather ordinary statements of fact in my opinion.

I also am not interested in “proving” to you that I have “read” or “listened to” whomever you may define as “leftist.” The fact is, whether you believe it or not, I am 71, grew up a radical in the late 1960s, and did my homework. Frankly, I wish I read much less Marx, Engels, Lenin, and Trotsky than I did. I enjoy studying ancient history, and modern international history. Reading leftist historians like Christopher Hill, Eric Hobsbawm, E.P. Thompson, reading about the freedom and labor struggles in our own country, about the Civil War and Civil Rights struggles, about economics and politics in our own time — that’s just what I do for pleasure and to try to gain a little understanding.

I chose Tom Paine for my moniker here because he was a man of the people who presciently stood at the intersection of revolutionary Enlightenment thinking and action, of internationalism and abolitionism, of right and left (in the French Revolutionary sense). But this is an article about a modern conservative African American intellectual with whom I have little in common. It’s not about me, or you. So I’ll “rest my defense.” You can read my previous comments if you are interested in what I believe.

On a final note, I think I get why you may be confused about right and left, at least as an old man like me uses these terms. You live in the U.S. and have soaked up all the modern lingo....

Right and left, individualism and collectivism, fads and social movements, they really do tend to get all mixed up in “America.” What is “America” to “Americans,” anyway?

Maybe you have your own definitions. Maybe you confuse liberals with leftists, “intersectionalists” with internationalists. I don’t speak for “the left” in any case. Not any more, anyway. But I know its history. I also get sick hearing the alt right pretend Hillary Clinton and Joe Biden are ... leftists. They even call MSNBC and CNN ... “leftist.” Even the DNC is leftist! Heck, right here on this message board Democrats are regularly denounced as ... Communists. And of course, “leftists” somehow usually end up being called ... “racists.”

I gag when I hear all that. Nothing personal though.