This is why we need to tax the wealthy

[SweetTea]

Will you ever acknowledge that such a variant in attitude towards people receiving services and resources from the government is hypocritical?

Sure, but that is because those receiving perpetual government assistance is quite a bit different in many cases. Of course, I still don’t know what government assistance you are referring to when it comes to “rich” folks.

 

[SweetTea]

Only under Communism there is a limit to what you can achieve.

No less than under capitalism.

This is patently false. My wife’s family came from Communism and would laugh in your face. They were(retired) both college educated professionals and would tell you first hand that life is infinitely better in a Capitalist society like the US than their former country. They do admit that US inner cities, NYC specifically, are dumps, even relative to where they came, however, they were smart enough to leave that area and take advantage of the number of opportunities elsewhere. They live far better now than they did in their former country, despite not being native English speakers and not being able to take full advantage of the formal education they received in their home country. They were top earners in their former country and yet their standard of living was nowhere near what it is in the US.

In short, you don’t have a clue what you are talking about. You have bought into a false narrative that is out of touch with reality.

 

[TruthNotBS]

No specific examples mentioned here. I’ve got some news for you. The “rich”, as defined by Biden, pay far and away more taxes that others. If your family earns 400k/yr, you can’t afford a team of accountants to find every loophole in the tax code. You typically aren’t living off of capital gains at that pay level. What you can’t do is invest in a Roth IRA, you didn’t get stimulus money, you don’t get the child tax credit which is up to $1700 per child under 17 in 2024 and is fully refundable, meaning you get it whether you pay taxes or not. The same goes for the EITC, which is also fully refundable. You are in a higher tax bracket. Though not specifically income based, those that make more money typically pay more property tax, in which case they can only write off 10k/yr, no matter how much they pay. Trump capped the deduction and ”rich” Democrats when bonkers. Biden will likely let that expire, to help his “rich” Democrat buddies.

There are actually many more caveats which most who aren’t in that position understand. I don’t know all of them myself and am often surprised by many restrictions.

I'm not a Biden supporter, nor did I mention the rich according to Biden's criteria. My household's combined income is almost 200K yearly. I live quite well myself. I don't have anything against anyone for generating a large income or being financially secure, it's the capitalists, particularly the big-money employers, to whom I direct most of my criticism to.

 

[TruthNotBS]

Sure, but that is because those receiving perpetual government assistance is quite a bit different in many cases. Of course, I still don’t know what government assistance you are referring to when it comes to “rich” folks.

COMPANY	LOCATION	SUBSIDY SOURCE	YEAR.	SUBSIDY VALUE	LOAN/BAILOUT VALUE	TYPE OF SUBSIDY
The Boeing Company	Oklahoma	state	2023	$943,298		grant
The Boeing Company	Oklahoma	state	2023	$855,270		grant
The Boeing Company	Oklahoma	state	2023	$663,527		grant
The Boeing Company	Oklahoma	state	2023	$1,677,680		grant
The Boeing Company	Oklahoma	state	2023	$1,451,603		grant
The Boeing Company	Oklahoma	state	2023	$1,090,545		grant
The Boeing Company	Oklahoma	state	2023	$425,314		grant
The Boeing Company	Oklahoma	state	2023	$407,603		grant
The Boeing Company	Oklahoma	state	2023	$359,828		grant
The Boeing Company	Oklahoma	state	2023	$563,119		grant
The Boeing Company	Oklahoma	state	2023	$535,977		grant
The Boeing Company	Oklahoma	state	2023	$473,352		grant
Boeing	Missouri	local	2023	$185,669,997		MEGADEAL
THE BOEING COMPANY	Oklahoma	state	2022	$215,380		grant
THE BOEING COMPANY	Oklahoma	state	2022	$227,119		grant
THE BOEING COMPANY	Oklahoma	state	2022	$375,170		grant
THE BOEING COMPANY	Oklahoma	state	2022	$380,895		grant
THE BOEING COMPANY	Oklahoma	state	2022	$445,908		grant
THE BOEING COMPANY	Oklahoma	state	2022	$449,484		grant
THE BOEING COMPANY	Oklahoma	state	2022	$469,007		grant
THE BOEING COMPANY	Oklahoma	state	2022	$469,819		grant
THE BOEING COMPANY	Oklahoma	state	2022	$490,570		grant
THE BOEING COMPANY	Oklahoma	state	2022	$501,941		grant
THE BOEING COMPANY	Oklahoma	state	2022	$551,885		grant
THE BOEING COMPANY	Oklahoma	state	2022	$555,821		grant
THE BOEING COMPANY	Oklahoma	state	2022	$708,755		grant
THE BOEING COMPANY	Oklahoma	state	2022	$721,967		grant
THE BOEING COMPANY	Oklahoma	state	2022	$808,880		grant
THE BOEING COMPANY	Oklahoma	state	2022	$827,067		grant
THE BOEING COMPANY	Oklahoma	state	2022	$852,596		grant
THE BOEING COMPANY	Oklahoma	state	2022	$1,070,672		grant
THE BOEING COMPANY	Oklahoma	state	2022	$1,153,563		grant
THE BOEING COMPANY	Oklahoma	state	2022	$1,199,546		grant
THE BOEING COMPANY	Oklahoma	state	2022	$1,317,033		grant
Digital Receiver Technology, Inc.	Maryland	state	2022	$250,000		tax credit/rebate
The Boeing Company	New Mexico	state	2022	$780,695		grant
The Boeing Company Portland Business Unit	Oregon	local	2022	$1,815,665		property tax abatement
The Boeing Company	United States	federal	2022	$1,040,304		federal grant
The Boeing Company	New Mexico	State	2021	$925,074		grant
Boeing Company, The	United States	federal	2021		$327,879,000	federal loan or loan guarantee
Boeing Company, The	United States	federal	2021		$450,000,000	federal loan or loan guarantee
THE BOEING COMPANY	Oklahoma	state	2021	$175,412		grant
THE BOEING COMPANY	Oklahoma	state	2021	$192,941		grant
THE BOEING COMPANY	Oklahoma	state	2021	$204,088		grant
THE BOEING COMPANY	Oklahoma	state	2021	$209,292		grant
THE BOEING COMPANY	Oklahoma	state	2021	$225,858		grant
THE BOEING COMPANY	Oklahoma	state	2021	$299,097		grant
THE BOEING COMPANY	Oklahoma	state	2021	$321,420		grant
THE BOEING COMPANY	Oklahoma	state	2021	$352,467		grant
THE BOEING COMPANY	Oklahoma	state	2021	$364,029		grant
THE BOEING COMPANY	Oklahoma	state	2021	$384,277		grant
THE BOEING COMPANY	Oklahoma	state	2021	$391,782		grant
THE BOEING COMPANY	Oklahoma	state	2021	$428,192		grant
THE BOEING COMPANY	Oklahoma	state	2021	$435,107		grant
THE BOEING COMPANY	Oklahoma	state	2021	$447,360		grant
THE BOEING COMPANY	Oklahoma	state	2021	$464,060		grant
THE BOEING COMPANY	Oklahoma	state	2021	$480,848		grant
THE BOEING COMPANY	Oklahoma	state	2021	$494,102		grant
THE BOEING COMPANY	Oklahoma	state	2021	$500,061		grant
THE BOEING COMPANY	Oklahoma	state	2021	$521,555		grant
THE BOEING COMPANY	Oklahoma	state	2021	$553,938		grant
THE BOEING COMPANY	Oklahoma	state	2021	$581,183		grant
THE BOEING COMPANY	Oklahoma	state	2021	$826,616		grant
THE BOEING COMPANY	Oklahoma	state	2021	$1,002,898		grant
THE BOEING COMPANY	Oklahoma	state	2021	$1,101,675		grant
THE BOEING COMPANY	Oklahoma	state	2021	$1,161,213		grant
THE BOEING COMPANY	Oklahoma	state	2021	$1,183,193		grant
THE BOEING COMPANY	Oklahoma	state	2021	$1,252,341		grant
THE BOEING COMPANY	Oklahoma	state	2021	$1,252,659		grant
THE BOEING COMPANY	Oklahoma	state	2021	$1,453,002		grant
THE BOEING COMPANY	Oklahoma	state	2021	$1,490,363		grant
Digital Receiver Technology, Inc.	Maryland	state	2021	$62,075		tax credit/rebate
The Boeing Company	Washington	state	2021	$53,779,100		tax credit/rebate
The Boeing Company	Washington	state	2021	$48,938,000		tax credit/rebate
The Boeing Company	Washington	state	2021	$9,286,890		tax credit/rebate
The Boeing Company	Washington	state	2021	$157,881		tax credit/rebate
The Boeing Company	Florida	local	2021	$425,000		grant
Boeing Co	Pennsylvania	state	2021	$818,400		tax credit/rebate
The Boeing Company Portland Business Unit	Oregon	local	2021	$1,900,615		property tax abatement
The Boeing Company	New Mexico	State	2020	$1,379,641		grant
The Boeing Company	New Mexico	State	2020	$633,948		grant
The Boeing Company	New Mexico	State	2020	$153,283		grant
The Boeing Company - Amendment	New Mexico	State	2020	$52,595		grant
Boeing Company, The	United States	federal	2020		$498,382,200	federal loan or loan guarantee
Boeing	Oregon	local	2020	$761,248		property tax abatement
The Boeing Company Portland Business Unit	Oregon	local	2020	$2,008,617		property tax abatement
THE BOEING COMPANY	Oklahoma	state	2020	$149,925		grant
THE BOEING COMPANY	Oklahoma	state	2020	$162,216		grant
THE BOEING COMPANY	Oklahoma	state	2020	$172,056		grant
THE BOEING COMPANY	Oklahoma	state	2020	$185,802		grant
THE BOEING COMPANY	Oklahoma	state	2020	$198,858		grant
THE BOEING COMPANY	Oklahoma	state	2020	$208,023		grant
THE BOEING COMPANY	Oklahoma	state	2020	$240,695		grant
THE BOEING COMPANY	Oklahoma	state	2020	$268,425		grant
THE BOEING COMPANY	Oklahoma	state	2020	$332,756		grant
THE BOEING COMPANY	Oklahoma	state	2020	$401,741		grant
THE BOEING COMPANY	Oklahoma	state	2020	$472,800		grant
THE BOEING COMPANY	Oklahoma	state	2020	$478,104		grant
THE BOEING COMPANY	Oklahoma	state	2020	$483,843		grant
THE BOEING COMPANY	Oklahoma	state	2020	$502,826		grant
THE BOEING COMPANY	Oklahoma	state	2020	$518,185		grant

Subsidy Tracker

Subsidy Tracker, produced by the Corporate Research Project of Good Jobs First, is a wide-ranging database on misconduct by large and small corporations throughout the United States.

subsidytracker.goodjobsfirst.org

BailoutWatch – Tracking government support for the fossil fuel industry.

BailoutWatch is a nonprofit, nonpartisan clearinghouse for news and analysis on federal stimulus and recovery efforts, and how energy companies are cashing in.

bailoutwatch.org

If they can get that, the working class shouldn't be criticized when it receives its government services and resources.

 

[SweetTea]

COMPANY	LOCATION	SUBSIDY SOURCE	YEAR.	SUBSIDY VALUE	LOAN/BAILOUT VALUE	TYPE OF SUBSIDY
The Boeing Company	Oklahoma	state	2023	$943,298		grant
The Boeing Company	Oklahoma	state	2023	$855,270		grant
The Boeing Company	Oklahoma	state	2023	$663,527		grant
The Boeing Company	Oklahoma	state	2023	$1,677,680		grant
The Boeing Company	Oklahoma	state	2023	$1,451,603		grant
The Boeing Company	Oklahoma	state	2023	$1,090,545		grant
The Boeing Company	Oklahoma	state	2023	$425,314		grant
The Boeing Company	Oklahoma	state	2023	$407,603		grant
The Boeing Company	Oklahoma	state	2023	$359,828		grant
The Boeing Company	Oklahoma	state	2023	$563,119		grant
The Boeing Company	Oklahoma	state	2023	$535,977		grant
The Boeing Company	Oklahoma	state	2023	$473,352		grant
Boeing	Missouri	local	2023	$185,669,997		MEGADEAL
THE BOEING COMPANY	Oklahoma	state	2022	$215,380		grant
THE BOEING COMPANY	Oklahoma	state	2022	$227,119		grant
THE BOEING COMPANY	Oklahoma	state	2022	$375,170		grant
THE BOEING COMPANY	Oklahoma	state	2022	$380,895		grant
THE BOEING COMPANY	Oklahoma	state	2022	$445,908		grant
THE BOEING COMPANY	Oklahoma	state	2022	$449,484		grant
THE BOEING COMPANY	Oklahoma	state	2022	$469,007		grant
THE BOEING COMPANY	Oklahoma	state	2022	$469,819		grant
THE BOEING COMPANY	Oklahoma	state	2022	$490,570		grant
THE BOEING COMPANY	Oklahoma	state	2022	$501,941		grant
THE BOEING COMPANY	Oklahoma	state	2022	$551,885		grant
THE BOEING COMPANY	Oklahoma	state	2022	$555,821		grant
THE BOEING COMPANY	Oklahoma	state	2022	$708,755		grant
THE BOEING COMPANY	Oklahoma	state	2022	$721,967		grant
THE BOEING COMPANY	Oklahoma	state	2022	$808,880		grant
THE BOEING COMPANY	Oklahoma	state	2022	$827,067		grant
THE BOEING COMPANY	Oklahoma	state	2022	$852,596		grant
THE BOEING COMPANY	Oklahoma	state	2022	$1,070,672		grant
THE BOEING COMPANY	Oklahoma	state	2022	$1,153,563		grant
THE BOEING COMPANY	Oklahoma	state	2022	$1,199,546		grant
THE BOEING COMPANY	Oklahoma	state	2022	$1,317,033		grant
Digital Receiver Technology, Inc.	Maryland	state	2022	$250,000		tax credit/rebate
The Boeing Company	New Mexico	state	2022	$780,695		grant
The Boeing Company Portland Business Unit	Oregon	local	2022	$1,815,665		property tax abatement
The Boeing Company	United States	federal	2022	$1,040,304		federal grant
The Boeing Company	New Mexico	State	2021	$925,074		grant
Boeing Company, The	United States	federal	2021		$327,879,000	federal loan or loan guarantee
Boeing Company, The	United States	federal	2021		$450,000,000	federal loan or loan guarantee
THE BOEING COMPANY	Oklahoma	state	2021	$175,412		grant
THE BOEING COMPANY	Oklahoma	state	2021	$192,941		grant
THE BOEING COMPANY	Oklahoma	state	2021	$204,088		grant
THE BOEING COMPANY	Oklahoma	state	2021	$209,292		grant
THE BOEING COMPANY	Oklahoma	state	2021	$225,858		grant
THE BOEING COMPANY	Oklahoma	state	2021	$299,097		grant
THE BOEING COMPANY	Oklahoma	state	2021	$321,420		grant
THE BOEING COMPANY	Oklahoma	state	2021	$352,467		grant
THE BOEING COMPANY	Oklahoma	state	2021	$364,029		grant
THE BOEING COMPANY	Oklahoma	state	2021	$384,277		grant
THE BOEING COMPANY	Oklahoma	state	2021	$391,782		grant
THE BOEING COMPANY	Oklahoma	state	2021	$428,192		grant
THE BOEING COMPANY	Oklahoma	state	2021	$435,107		grant
THE BOEING COMPANY	Oklahoma	state	2021	$447,360		grant
THE BOEING COMPANY	Oklahoma	state	2021	$464,060		grant
THE BOEING COMPANY	Oklahoma	state	2021	$480,848		grant
THE BOEING COMPANY	Oklahoma	state	2021	$494,102		grant
THE BOEING COMPANY	Oklahoma	state	2021	$500,061		grant
THE BOEING COMPANY	Oklahoma	state	2021	$521,555		grant
THE BOEING COMPANY	Oklahoma	state	2021	$553,938		grant
THE BOEING COMPANY	Oklahoma	state	2021	$581,183		grant
THE BOEING COMPANY	Oklahoma	state	2021	$826,616		grant
THE BOEING COMPANY	Oklahoma	state	2021	$1,002,898		grant
THE BOEING COMPANY	Oklahoma	state	2021	$1,101,675		grant
THE BOEING COMPANY	Oklahoma	state	2021	$1,161,213		grant
THE BOEING COMPANY	Oklahoma	state	2021	$1,183,193		grant
THE BOEING COMPANY	Oklahoma	state	2021	$1,252,341		grant
THE BOEING COMPANY	Oklahoma	state	2021	$1,252,659		grant
THE BOEING COMPANY	Oklahoma	state	2021	$1,453,002		grant
THE BOEING COMPANY	Oklahoma	state	2021	$1,490,363		grant
Digital Receiver Technology, Inc.	Maryland	state	2021	$62,075		tax credit/rebate
The Boeing Company	Washington	state	2021	$53,779,100		tax credit/rebate
The Boeing Company	Washington	state	2021	$48,938,000		tax credit/rebate
The Boeing Company	Washington	state	2021	$9,286,890		tax credit/rebate
The Boeing Company	Washington	state	2021	$157,881		tax credit/rebate
The Boeing Company	Florida	local	2021	$425,000		grant
Boeing Co	Pennsylvania	state	2021	$818,400		tax credit/rebate
The Boeing Company Portland Business Unit	Oregon	local	2021	$1,900,615		property tax abatement
The Boeing Company	New Mexico	State	2020	$1,379,641		grant
The Boeing Company	New Mexico	State	2020	$633,948		grant
The Boeing Company	New Mexico	State	2020	$153,283		grant
The Boeing Company - Amendment	New Mexico	State	2020	$52,595		grant
Boeing Company, The	United States	federal	2020		$498,382,200	federal loan or loan guarantee
Boeing	Oregon	local	2020	$761,248		property tax abatement
The Boeing Company Portland Business Unit	Oregon	local	2020	$2,008,617		property tax abatement
THE BOEING COMPANY	Oklahoma	state	2020	$149,925		grant
THE BOEING COMPANY	Oklahoma	state	2020	$162,216		grant
THE BOEING COMPANY	Oklahoma	state	2020	$172,056		grant
THE BOEING COMPANY	Oklahoma	state	2020	$185,802		grant
THE BOEING COMPANY	Oklahoma	state	2020	$198,858		grant
THE BOEING COMPANY	Oklahoma	state	2020	$208,023		grant
THE BOEING COMPANY	Oklahoma	state	2020	$240,695		grant
THE BOEING COMPANY	Oklahoma	state	2020	$268,425		grant
THE BOEING COMPANY	Oklahoma	state	2020	$332,756		grant
THE BOEING COMPANY	Oklahoma	state	2020	$401,741		grant
THE BOEING COMPANY	Oklahoma	state	2020	$472,800		grant
THE BOEING COMPANY	Oklahoma	state	2020	$478,104		grant
THE BOEING COMPANY	Oklahoma	state	2020	$483,843		grant
THE BOEING COMPANY	Oklahoma	state	2020	$502,826		grant
THE BOEING COMPANY	Oklahoma	state	2020	$518,185		grant

Subsidy Tracker

Subsidy Tracker, produced by the Corporate Research Project of Good Jobs First, is a wide-ranging database on misconduct by large and small corporations throughout the United States.

subsidytracker.goodjobsfirst.org

BailoutWatch – Tracking government support for the fossil fuel industry.

BailoutWatch is a nonprofit, nonpartisan clearinghouse for news and analysis on federal stimulus and recovery efforts, and how energy companies are cashing in.

bailoutwatch.org

If they can get that, the working class shouldn't be criticized when it receives its government services and resources.

Add up those subsidies and compare them with subsidies given to the working class as you call them. It isn’t even close. Also, Boeing is a top 10 DOW stock that provides a huge service to our country. You are comparing apples to oranges.

 

[TruthNotBS]

Banks are in the business of making money. They feel that worker coops are risky. If they felt they could make money, they would finance their loans. Remember, they are “greedy Capitalists”, not social welfare warriors. Or are you attempting to say they are social welfare warriors but for the wealthy class, not the working class?



If by society you mean the labor markets, yes. People are paid based on their value relative to others. Why do pro-sports athletes make so much money? Could it be because few can do the same thing at the same level? If hamburger flippers and ice cream scoopers were very difficult to come by, guess what, those who chose those professions would make more money.

Worker-owned cooperatives have already proven to be more robust, resilient and profitable than normal businesses. One of the reasons the government's SBA doesn't assist entrepreneurs wanting to launch a co-op, or why banks refuse to lend them money is indeed due to prejudice, if not a systemic aversion to workers being in the position of collective owners of a business enterprise that doesn't follow the typical, "safe" model. Does it serve capitalists to compete against co-ops? No.

One of the reasons the Hutterites are banned in some counties from opening businesses and competing with local capitalists is because of the inherent advantage of their business model. Capitalists crap in their pants when the Hutterites move into town and open businesses.,

 

[TruthNotBS]

Add up those subsidies and compare them with subsidies given to the working class as you call them. It isn’t even close. Also, Boeing is a top 10 DOW stock that provides a huge service to our country. You are comparing apples to oranges.

Right, you justify the wealthy being the recipients of plenty of socialism but when the working class want socialism, you accuse them of being lazy bums who don't want to work. Convenient.

 

[SweetTea]

Right, you justify the wealthy being the recipients of plenty of socialism but when the working class want socialism, you accuse them of being lazy bums who don't want to work. Convenient.

You brought up Boeing, not me. They are a huge corporation responsible for supplying our country and the word with a very important and critical component to our economy and yet the subsidies they receive pale in comparison to working class subsidies. In addition, every person receiving subsidies isn’t performing a critical service, if any, to our country and our economy. In fact, in many cases, quite the opposite, which is why there is often a stigma.

 

[pknopp]

Add up those subsidies and compare them with subsidies given to the working class as you call them. It isn’t even close. Also, Boeing is a top 10 DOW stock that provides a huge service to our country. You are comparing apples to oranges.

Please explain to me where we find in Capitalism where taxpayers should be on the hook for these business expenses?

Is that really "Capitalism" to you?

 

[bripat9643]

That is what Billy was saying

In other words….Taxes are the price we pay to live in a civilized society

Taxes are theft, pure an simple. We don't get anything in return.

 

[SweetTea]

Please explain to me where we find in Capitalism where taxpayers should be on the hook for these business expenses?

Is that really "Capitalism" to you?

I am not making that argument. He brought up subsidies to Boeing and I told him why they were given. Where does it say that Capitalism should be giving many of the subsidies we provide?

 

[TruthNotBS]

This is patently false. My wife’s family came from Communism and would laugh in your face. They were(retired) both college educated professionals and would tell you first hand that life is infinitely better in a Capitalist society like the US than their former country. They do admit that US inner cities, NYC specifically, are dumps, even relative to where they came, however, they were smart enough to leave that area and take advantage of the number of opportunities elsewhere. They live far better now than they did in their former country, despite not being native English speakers and not being able to take full advantage of the formal education they received in their home country. They were top earners in their former country and yet their standard of living was nowhere near what it is in the US.

In short, you don’t have a clue what you are talking about. You have bought into a false narrative that is out of touch with reality.

This is patently false. My wife’s family came from Communism and would laugh in your face.

My wife was born in the USSR and she would disagree with your wife.

They were(retired) both college educated professionals and would tell you first hand that life is infinitely better in a Capitalist society like the US than their former country.

She would disagree that it is "infinitely better", especially here in the US. Maybe in certain parts of Western Europe, but those are mixed economies, essentially socialistic, compared to America. The USSR was in a state of war throughout its history with very powerful capitalist countries, so in view of that, and what they accomplished, they had a pretty impressive track record, becoming the second largest economy in the world. People didn't have it as bad as the Cold War propaganda claims they did.

​

They do admit that US inner cities, NYC specifically, are dumps, even relative to where they came, however, they were smart enough to leave that area and take advantage of the number of opportunities elsewhere. They live far better now than they did in their former country, despite not being native English speakers and not being able to take full advantage of the formal education they received in their home country.

My grandparents who migrated to Miami, Florida from Cuba, also lived better than Cubans on the Island, but Cuba is an Island, in the shadow of a capitalist empire, under an economic embargo. The communists have always been under the heel of American economic and military "wrath", hence that has to be factored into the equation when comparing both economic systems. Marketless, non-profit, centrally planned economies, are doomed from the very start, with an enemy like the United States. If you're a market socialist, with a bit of central planning, you'll probably be OK, provided you're not too close to the US border.

They were top earners in their former country and yet their standard of living was nowhere near what it is in the US.

That wasn't true for everybody, there were members of the scientific community, academia, entertainers..etc, who enjoyed a high standard of living. If the USSR hadn't been taken over by a bunch of anti-Stalinist revisionists, their "5th column", the USSR today in 2024, with all of the technology available, would provide its citizens with an extremely high standard of living, surpassing that of the United States.

In short, you don’t have a clue...

I do, and you apparently don't have a clue about my background and what I know. Your "my wife from communist Russia" game, doesn't work with me, because I have a bunch of people in my family born in communism, not just in Cuba but in Eastern Europe as well. You chose the wrong debate opponent to play that little game.

...what you are talking about. You have bought into a false narrative that is out of touch with reality.

You're the one who's ignorant of history and unable to think rationally on this topic, not me.

 

[TruthNotBS]

I am not making that argument. He brought up subsidies to Boeing and I told him why they were given. Where does it say that Capitalism should be giving many of the subsidies we provide?

Capitalism requires it, because without it, it fails to function, collapsing every few years. A free market economy has never existed without plenty of government oversight and assistance. Your unicorn is just in your mind, not in reality. Cronyism is also endemic to capitalism, it will happen naturally, without fail.

 

[pknopp]

I am not making that argument. He brought up subsidies to Boeing and I told him why they were given. Where does it say that Capitalism should be giving many of the subsidies we provide?

Just making sure we understand that the country does not operate under principles of Capitalism unlike how many pretend.

 

[bripat9643]

That is what Billy was saying

In other words….Taxes are the price we pay to live in a civilized society

Taxes are theft, pure an simple. We don't get anything in return.

Capitalism requires it, because without it, it fails to function, collapsing every few years. A free market economy has never existed without plenty of government oversight and assistance. Your unicorn is just in your mind, not in reality. Cronyism is also endemic to capitalism, it will happen naturally, without fail.

Horseshit. Capitalism doesn't fail. Government interference is what fails. An economy with "plenty of government oversight" is the opposite of a free market economy.

 

[SweetTea]

This is patently false. My wife’s family came from Communism and would laugh in your face.

My wife was born in the USSR and she would disagree with your wife.

They were(retired) both college educated professionals and would tell you first hand that life is infinitely better in a Capitalist society like the US than their former country.

She would disagree that it is "infinitely better", especially here in the US. Maybe in certain parts of Western Europe, but those are mixed economies, essentially socialistic, compared to America. The USSR was in a state of war throughout its history with very powerful capitalist countries, so in view of that, and what they accomplished, they had a pretty impressive track record, becoming the second largest economy in the world. People didn't have it as bad as the Cold War propaganda claims they did.

​

They do admit that US inner cities, NYC specifically, are dumps, even relative to where they came, however, they were smart enough to leave that area and take advantage of the number of opportunities elsewhere. They live far better now than they did in their former country, despite not being native English speakers and not being able to take full advantage of the formal education they received in their home country.

My grandparents who migrated to Miami, Florida from Cuba, also lived better than Cubans on the Island, but Cuba is an Island, in the shadow of a capitalist empire, under an economic embargo. The communists have always been under the heel of American economic and military "wrath", hence that has to be factored into the equation when comparing both economic systems. Marketless, non-profit, centrally planned economies, are doomed from the very start, with an enemy like the United States. If you're a market socialist, with a bit of central planning, you'll probably be OK, provided you're not too close to the US border.


They were top earners in their former country and yet their standard of living was nowhere near what it is in the US.

That wasn't true for everybody, there were members of the scientific community, academia, and entertainers..etc, who enjoyed a high standard of living. If the USSR wouldn't have been taken over by a bunch of anti-Stalinist revionists, their "5th column", the USSR today in 2024, with all of the technology available, would provide its citizens with an extremely high standard of living, surpassing that of the United States.

In short, you don’t have a clue...

I do, and you apparently don't have a clue about my background and what I know. Your "my wife from communist Russia" game, doesn't work with me, because I have a bunch of people in my family born in communism, not just in Cuba but in different Eastern Europe as well. You chose the wrong debate opponent to play that little game.

...what you are talking about. You have bought into a false narrative that is out of touch with reality.

You're the one who's ignorant of history and unable to think rationally on this topic, not me.

Seriously, you are making the argument that Communism is better than Capitalism. Facts at every level prove that you are incorrect. The US is the strongest country in the world both economically and militarily. No Communist country is in the same ball park with regards to GDP per capita. What don’t you understand? Yeah, you don’t. That is the problem.

 

[TruthNotBS]

You brought up Boeing, not me. They are a huge corporation responsible for supplying our country and the word with a very important and critical component to our economy and yet the subsidies they receive pale in comparison to working class subsidies. In addition, every person receiving subsidies isn’t performing a critical service, if any, to our country and our economy. In fact, in many cases, quite the opposite, which is why there is often a stigma.

You brought up Boeing, not me. They are a huge corporation responsible for supplying our country and the world with a very important and critical component to our economy and yet the subsidies they receive pale in comparison to working class subsidies.

The working class is what allows Boeing to do all of what you're referring to. The workers need affordable housing, transportation, healthcare, and education..etc. They should also be allowed to get SBA loans to open labor cooperatives and other assistance, and if people like you don't like it, so what? If you have the gall to accuse working people of being bums because the government invests in them, you're delusional and hypocritical. You bend over backward to defend the rich and then crap on workers for receiving government services and public goods. Get out of the way capitalist.

In addition, every person receiving subsidies isn’t performing a critical service, if any, to our country and our economy.

The working class are the productive power of Boeing, that's the first thing you should realize. I'm against those who refuse to work and yet receive goverment assistance. Most welfare programs today, require people to get a job. The old days when people refused to work and still got a government check are gone. Most people in the ghetto, if not all of them, who receive public assistance, have jobs. There are very few people today, in the ghetto who don't work and also receive welfare checks.

When I refer to subsidies for the working class, I'm not just referring to people in the ghetto but to tens of millions of Americans like me who work hard for what they have, but need certain protections and services. We get our government resources and so do the wealthy capitalists, and I can live with that. I wouldn't be criticizing Boeing if people like you weren't crapping on people like me for getting assistance from the government for being members of a labor union (legal protection from the government), or living in a building here in Manhattan under rent controls. My rent would be $6000 monthly, if not for the government.

The cost of living is through the roof, and if left to the market, there wouldn't be any working-class people living in Manhattan, we would all be living in Yonkers or some other town in New York State or accriss the river in New Jersey, and we would be commuting to work in traffic for 2, 3 hours. The wealthy cut their noses despite their faces when they vote against rent controls because their workers have to live far away, rather than a couple of miles from their businesses. They have more business opportunities, a more diverse market, and customer base, thanks to living in a community where both the wealthy and people like me live together. This a huge city with all walks of life and incomes. It's what gives this city its unique character and charm.

In fact, in many cases, quite the opposite, which is why there is often a stigma.

This shows your ignorance of economics. The working class isn't just the nation's backbone concerning production, but as far as the customer base as well. Paying consumers need good paying jobs, housing, healthcare, an education, good public transit, government infrastructure and services. etc. If you right-wing Republicans can't get that through your thick skulls, too bad. In the end, socialists will win, regardless of how you feel about it. The US economy will become more mixed in the not-too-distant future (a bit of capitalism with some socialism), as it is in Western Europe and eventually, it will become fully socialist.

Technology is going to eventually force American society by necessity to adopt socialism. It's only a matter of time. Cry all you want.

 

[TruthNotBS]

Taxes are theft, pure an simple. We don't get anything in return.

Horseshit. Capitalism doesn't fail. Government interference is what fails. An economy with "plenty of government oversight" is the opposite of a free market economy.

Capitalism has never been able to function without government infrastructure and oversight, historically it always falls. You can deny it, but that's fine, that's expected. You're delusional.

 

[rightwinger]

Taxes are theft, pure an simple. We don't get anything in return.

Horseshit. Capitalism doesn't fail. Government interference is what fails. An economy with "plenty of government oversight" is the opposite of a free market economy.

 

[gipper]

Taxes are theft, pure an simple. We don't get anything in return.

Horseshit. Capitalism doesn't fail. Government interference is what fails. An economy with "plenty of government oversight" is the opposite of a free market economy.

Do you somehow think we have a free market economy?