Zone1 This is why I don't go to church

[Woodznutz]

I think there is a lot of truth and wisdom in your statement. However, I prefer to be in a church where the head pastor welcomes everybody, especially sinners like me.

Ann Landers once said, "The church is a hospital for sinners, not an edifice for saints."

 

[CarlinAnnArbor]

Ann Landers once said, "The church is a hospital for sinners, not an edifice for saints."

She was wrong. That is NOT the purpose of the Church.

The Church is a "holy convocation" for the Body of Believers. It isn't for every Tom, Dick and Harry. It is for the REPENTANT, not those wallowing in sin

 

[Woodznutz]

She was wrong. That is NOT the purpose of the Church.

The Church is a "holy convocation" for the Body of Believers. It isn't for every Tom, Dick and Harry. It is for the REPENTANT, not those wallowing in sin

Like recovering from illness in a hospital one recovers from sin as a spirit led member of the church. Paul made it clear that 'boasting' of one's righteousness wasn't good. Ann was spot on.

 

[ding]

She was wrong. That is NOT the purpose of the Church.

The Church is a "holy convocation" for the Body of Believers. It isn't for every Tom, Dick and Harry. It is for the REPENTANT, not those wallowing in sin

Do you believe transformations are an event or a process? Because if it is a process - as I believe it is - then those wallowing in sin should be welcomed and not ostracized.

 

[Meriweather]

Do you believe transformations are an event or a process? Because if it is a process - as I believe it is - then those wallowing in sin should be welcomed and not ostracized.

True. Still, people should be aware of the purpose of church where they hear God's word. Jesus noted that we are called to be perfect as our heavenly Father is perfect. That is Christ's expectation of us...to be perfect as our heavenly Father is perfect.

Expectations are a very good thing. Wallowing in sin? Here we expect you to get better! However, that does need to be said not in a scolding manner, but in an uplifting way.

If our attitude is, "I am a sinner, but accept me as a sinner because, after all, I am forgiven" we may miss a lot of who we are meant to be.

 

[Woodznutz]

True. Still, people should be aware of the purpose of church where they hear God's word. Jesus noted that we are called to be perfect as our heavenly Father is perfect. That is Christ's expectation of us...to be perfect as our heavenly Father is perfect.

Expectations are a very good thing. Wallowing in sin? Here we expect you to get better! However, that does need to be said not in a scolding manner, but in an uplifting way.

If our attitude is, "I am a sinner, but accept me as a sinner because, after all, I am forgiven" we may miss a lot of who we are meant to be.

We are called to become perfect. Why the translators used the term "be" is a mystery to me.

 

[Meriweather]

We are called to become perfect. Why the translators used the term "be" is a mystery to me.

I agree with both. For example, every small thing we can do perfectly, we should do it perfectly, not settle for less. That starts us on our way to becoming perfect.

 

[ding]

True. Still, people should be aware of the purpose of church where they hear God's word. Jesus noted that we are called to be perfect as our heavenly Father is perfect. That is Christ's expectation of us...to be perfect as our heavenly Father is perfect.

Expectations are a very good thing. Wallowing in sin? Here we expect you to get better! However, that does need to be said not in a scolding manner, but in an uplifting way.

If our attitude is, "I am a sinner, but accept me as a sinner because, after all, I am forgiven" we may miss a lot of who we are meant to be.

I don't think it's ever a straight line. There's a risk of becoming pharisee like by embracing the form of religion rather than the meaning of it. It's a delicate balancing act with risks on each side.

 

[Blues Man]

She was wrong. That is NOT the purpose of the Church.

The Church is a "holy convocation" for the Body of Believers. It isn't for every Tom, Dick and Harry. It is for the REPENTANT, not those wallowing in sin

You don't need to belong to a church to worship either.

 

[CarlinAnnArbor]

Do you believe transformations are an event or a process? Because if it is a process - as I believe it is - then those wallowing in sin should be welcomed and not ostracized.

The purpose of THE CHURCH is the edification of the saints.

The transformation comes from the Holy Spirit.
But the Scriptures admonish us to "be ye therefore perfect as your Father in heaven is perfect"

The Church is NOT the place for those who have not begun the conversion process

 

[ding]

The purpose of THE CHURCH is the edification of the saints.

The transformation comes from the Holy Spirit.
But the Scriptures admonish us to "be ye therefore perfect as your Father in heaven is perfect"

The Church is NOT the place for those who have not begun the conversion process

That's like saying a hospital is not the place for sick people because they might die.

 

[zaangalewa]

Yes, I love that account! But I heard that the prayer was being said when her carriage overturned on a bridge and she was tossed into a river/creek. Never fails to bring a smile.

You are right. I used the short form here. She came after a long day nearly home when a wheel of her carriage broke. "Best time" - in the evening when it was very good to be in a fortified place during the night - and "best place" in the low water of a ford (in the story which I heard was no bridge) where it is not easy to repair a broken wheel. Very frustrating situation.

By the way: Teresa is a "teacher of the church" - or with other words: a highest human authority in case someone needs orientation. It hurted me when I took a look now and found this quote from her: "I reproach our time for rejecting strong spirits, gifted for all good, simply because they are women." I know we are all equal in the eyes of god - but why are the children of god still not equal in the eyes of all other children of god? Sometimes I think stupidity is the greatest gift for the male variant of the species homo stupidus stupidus.

 

[zaangalewa]

I agree with both. For example, every small thing we can do perfectly, we should do it perfectly, not settle for less. That starts us on our way to becoming perfect.

Hmm - the perfect is not perfect. Example: Life is perfect - but it is chaos. Chaos is as well able to be perfect - as it is also sometimes able to be damned deadly. Same with this what we call "order" - mostly order gives us a quality of calmness - but sometimes order is so damned cool that everything seems to froze to death. I guess to seek for real perfection has also a danger when someone tries to become too perfect.

 

[Meriweather]

Hmm - the perfect is not perfect. Example: Life is perfect - but it is chaos. Chaos is as well able to be perfect - as it is also sometimes able to be damned deadly. Same with this what we call "order" - mostly order gives us a quality of calmness - but sometimes order is so damned cool that everything seems to froze to death. I guess to seek for real perfection has also a danger when someone tries to become too perfect.

Even so, seeking the ideal may get us further than settling.

 

[SweetSue92]

Interesting. I see this a lot with mainstream Christians where they are looking for a church that fits their wants and needs rather than studying the doctrines of those churches and asking Father in Heaven, in the name of Jesus Christ if that's the church that the Godhead sanction and give authority to perform the saving ordinances. And, receive this truth from the Holy Ghost.

There are no "saving ordinances" other than Jesus' saving death on the Cross, first.

Second, it is of primary important to find a church that believes and preaches the above. It's not about "wants and needs" for true Christians. It's about important issues. Sadly, too many churches in 21st century America preach straight nonsense that is not Christian.

 

[Meriweather]

I know we are all equal in the eyes of god - but why are the children of god still not equal in the eyes of all other children of god? Sometimes I think stupidity is the greatest gift for the male variant of the species homo stupidus stupidus.

In my opinion, the stupidity is getting worse with the current craze over "Toxic Masculinity". I have yet to meet a toxic male, just the opposite. When I was younger and pointed out a pay scale seemed unfair to females, it was the males in my life who agreed and they were the ones than made sure it changed. Meanwhile, a few of the females were telling me I should be happy with what I was getting.

Looking at information available in my own genealogy, I also came to the conclusion that "oppression of women" was also a myth. My female ancestors were executors, did sail the ocean without being accompanied by a male, explored the wilderness, etc. In our country, before Utah became a state, women of all races were voting.

It is not the opposite sex that is the problem, it is the government. The husband of our vice-president thinks his special project will be to deal with "Toxic Masculinity." Leave it to the government to be so stupid.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

This is why I don't go to church

The fact that there was no ‘Christ’ as perceived by Christians is another good reason.

 

[Meriweather]

The fact that there was no ‘Christ’ as perceived by Christians is another good reason.

Yes, there was. Is it the title you object to, the man, or have you doubts he even existed?

 

[zaangalewa]

Even so, seeking the ideal may get us further than settling.

Sure. Always is the problem to find the right way. But I'm sure we are able to find the best of all possible ways in his best of all possible worlds. God will help us. And the worst what will be able to happen is to fall into the hand of our beloved Lord - "dead or alive".

 

[Stann]

Mind you, I was a Catholic for 50 years before I decided to leave that organization, as I detailed in another thread.

I had never been to another church before visiting a local congregation a number of months ago. Unfortunately, I was battling diverticulitis at the time and only stayed about 30 minutes but what I heard was fine.

I recently was recommended to visit another Christian church that is growing into something big. I went there yesterday. The facility is really nice. The people were super friendly. They have a live band to open the service and they were outstanding! Thereafter there was a brief video about donating to the church, which was fine because they obviously need some financial support to function. And then the preacher came out. I was pleased to see that there was no fanfare about him appearing to us onstage. After all, he's just a person. He then said that he welcomes all first-time visitors and he said that he knows they're "checking us out" and then he said "But we're checking you out too" and went on to explain that, if you're going to call their church your home, you have to be a good representation of Christ.

I got up and walked out.

Luke 5:29-32 esv
29And Levi made him a great feast in his house, and there was a large company of tax collectors and others reclining at table with them. 30And the Pharisees and their scribes grumbled at his disciples, saying, “Why do you eat and drink with tax collectors and sinners?” 31And Jesus answered them, “Those who are well have no need of a physician, but those who are sick. 32I have not come to call the righteous but sinners to repentance.”

I consider myself a very spiritual person. I felt Christianity extremely limited my spirituality. Belief in a character like Jesus is portrayed only allows one to parrot back a truly limited notion of spirituality. I believe most people are coming around to that belief.