THIS is why GM is going down

[DavidS]

I just spoke to three dealerships posing as a customer asking them the "What if?" question about GM going out of business...

One of them told me that GM has enough money to last them another 5-10 years, another told me that because the owner of the dealership owns a Toyota dealership, the GM dealership will stay in business and the last one told me that if I came in to buy a car today and GM went out of business, I wouldn't be responsible for my car payments!

When you have morons selling cars, that don't give you a reason to trust you you don't sell cars. You don't sell cars, you go out of business.

 

[sealybobo]

So it isn't the consumers fault?

But in the housing market, it was the consumers fault?

 

[glockmail]

....

When you have morons selling cars, that don't give you a reason to trust you you don't sell cars. You don't sell cars, you go out of business.

You think guys that sell Toyotas are any smarter?

 

[user_name_guest]

So it isn't the consumers fault?

But in the housing market, it was the consumers fault?

I see more of a combination of faults between the ones lending the money and the ones borrowing it. It takes two to tango.

 

[CA95380]

I just spoke to three dealerships posing as a customer asking them the "What if?" question about GM going out of business...

One of them told me that GM has enough money to last them another 5-10 years, another told me that because the owner of the dealership owns a Toyota dealership, the GM dealership will stay in business and the last one told me that if I came in to buy a car today and GM went out of business, I wouldn't be responsible for my car payments!

When you have morons selling cars, that don't give you a reason to trust you you don't sell cars. You don't sell cars, you go out of business.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/current-events/64503-who-is-going-to-ask-for-the-next-bailout-2.html#post904795

 

[seth1492]

Yeah I think the automakers are at fault for not producing cars that can compete. If there cars and trucks are expensive and have low mpg then of course business will be slow. It doesn't take a financial wizard to know that! GM and Ford need to start competing with honda, toyota, and hyundai 10-15 years ago to avoid this bailout!

 

[bk1983]

I just spoke to three dealerships posing as a customer asking them the "What if?" question about GM going out of business...

One of them told me that GM has enough money to last them another 5-10 years, another told me that because the owner of the dealership owns a Toyota dealership, the GM dealership will stay in business and the last one told me that if I came in to buy a car today and GM went out of business, I wouldn't be responsible for my car payments!

When you have morons selling cars, that don't give you a reason to trust you you don't sell cars. You don't sell cars, you go out of business.

So you mean to tell me a car salesman lied to you??

 

[DavidS]

So you mean to tell me a car salesman lied to you??

 

[Neubarth]

A lot of people are not well educated. They still need to make a living in this life in spite of their limited understanding of finances and the business world.

 

[tigerbob]

Yeah I think the automakers are at fault for not producing cars that can compete. If there cars and trucks are expensive and have low mpg then of course business will be slow. It doesn't take a financial wizard to know that! GM and Ford need to start competing with honda, toyota, and hyundai 10-15 years ago to avoid this bailout!

Their problems aren't really much to do with expensive and low mpg. If you do a cross comparision on, let's say, full size pickups, you'll find that the domestics are at parity or better than the imports.

Their internal problems are to do with
1) High production costs
2) Poor quality

It's true they need higher mileage cars now, but that's a relatively recent problem (and it's also true, one they should have been better prepared for).

By the way, expensive and low mpg sounds like SUVs and trucks to me - the very things that they have made most money on until recently.

 

[DiveCon]

Their problems aren't really much to do with expensive and low mpg. If you do a cross comparision on, let's say, full size pickups, you'll find that the domestics are at parity or better than the imports.

Their internal problems are to do with
1) High production costs
2) Poor quality

It's true they need higher mileage cars now, but that's a relatively recent problem (and it's also true, one they should have been better prepared for).

By the way, expensive and low mpg sounds like SUVs and trucks to me - the very things that they have made most money on until recently.

GM has been making hybrid SUV's for a while now

but they cost so much, no one can afford em

 

[xsited1]

I guess I'm going to stop asking Car Salesmen for advice now. No wonder my marriage failed, my savings vanished and my fine young son turned out gay. If I had only known!

 

[tigerbob]

GM has been making hybrid SUV's for a while now

but they cost so much, no one can afford em

I test drove a GM electric car in 1886.


My bad. 1996.

 

[glockmail]

I guess I'm going to stop asking Car Salesmen for advice now. No wonder my marriage failed, my savings vanished and my fine young son turned out gay. If I had only known!

That's a great success in the Liberal playbook.

 

[Zoomie1980]

Their problems aren't really much to do with expensive and low mpg. If you do a cross comparision on, let's say, full size pickups, you'll find that the domestics are at parity or better than the imports.

Their internal problems are to do with
1) High production costs
2) Poor quality

It's true they need higher mileage cars now, but that's a relatively recent problem (and it's also true, one they should have been better prepared for).

By the way, expensive and low mpg sounds like SUVs and trucks to me - the very things that they have made most money on until recently.

It's high production costs couple with older production facilities that are much harder to retool when the market turns on them. Those newer plants in the South were built to be flexible with retooling for rapidly changing markets built right in. Coupled with globally competitive labor costs (Southern US plant labor is roughly equivalent to German, Korean and Japanese labor) you have a much healthier and nimble manufacturer down South. The Big three are going to have to re-organized along the lines of Toyota, Hyundai, BMW and Mercedes in the southern US. Essentially, non-union, no pensions and average worker health care found everywhere else, pretty revamped facilities and re-organized supply chains that are also low cost in labor.

 

[tigerbob]

It's high production costs couple with older production facilities that are much harder to retool when the market turns on them. Those newer plants in the South were built to be flexible with retooling for rapidly changing markets built right in. Coupled with globally competitive labor costs (Southern US plant labor is roughly equivalent to German, Korean and Japanese labor) you have a much healthier and nimble manufacturer down South. The Big three are going to have to re-organized along the lines of Toyota, Hyundai, BMW and Mercedes in the southern US. Essentially, non-union, no pensions and average worker health care found everywhere else, pretty revamped facilities and re-organized supply chains that are also low cost in labor.

Agree.

 

[Paulie]

Their problems aren't really much to do with expensive and low mpg. If you do a cross comparision on, let's say, full size pickups, you'll find that the domestics are at parity or better than the imports.

Their internal problems are to do with
1) High production costs
2) Poor quality

It's true they need higher mileage cars now, but that's a relatively recent problem (and it's also true, one they should have been better prepared for).

By the way, expensive and low mpg sounds like SUVs and trucks to me - the very things that they have made most money on until recently.

Yeah, take the Taurus for example.

Over 10 years and they never bothered to fix the common problems it had each year. It's been one of their most popular models, and yet they couldn't even perfect it over a decade.

Don't get me started on the Focus, either. That car is a piece of shit.

 

[editec]

Do you guys really remember the early imports?

They were crap car, folks.

They sold, and they sold like crazy because why?

They were cheap.

Of course what many of you fail to realize (or acknowledge) is that those cheap cars were being DUMPED onto the American market to gain market share.

What you fail to realize (or acknowledge) is that during that time, in most of those nations, workers who were working for 1/10th of what American workers for, were imprisoned for trying to unionize.

What you fail to realize (or acknowledge) is that suring that time, American cars were actually often much better cars that people overseas would have purchased had it not been for TARIFFS which prevented the BIG G THREE for selling overseas.

Hey, I quite agree that DETROIT shares in the blame here, but let's not pretend that this is ALL ABOUT market forces, shall we?

You folks come to these issues like there is no history to take into account.

I find your unwillingness to even acknowldge that history, most disturbing.

Did any of you ever read the book 1984?

Did you think that was ONLY about communism or fascism?

That book is REALLY about how a government can control the people IF it can DESTROY a people's understanding of how they arrived at the state they are in TODAY?

Most of you act as though the world's economic woes have nothing to do with what been going on for the last fifty years.

ARe you really that ignorant, or what?

 

[cbi0090]

I test drove a GM electric car in 1886.


My bad. 1996.

Well, I'll do one better. I rode in an GE electric car in 1969 at the Terre Haute County fair grounds. It was the same year I saw the first microwave oven, which was the closest thing to outright magic I had ever seen.

I also sat in line during the 1970's during the last oil crisis, reading Whole Earth magazines about how we are slowly running out of oil, and dreamed of buying a small farm, living off the land and creating my own energy from the sun, etc. But that quickly changed in the 80's when everyone threw off their hemp clothing and Earth shoes and donned polyester suits and high heels and went disco and we haven't stopped to look back since, till now.

The situation that we are in regards to energy should not be a surprise to anyone. The warning bells rang pretty clear in those days and we're just seeing the results today. Those of us raised in the 60's would love to say "I told you so" but careers, raising families, and such forced us right into line with the rest of the SUV world. It's a shame we didn't make better use of those "good times" to discover better and cleaner energy sources.

 

[Zoomie1980]

Yeah, take the Taurus for example.

Over 10 years and they never bothered to fix the common problems it had each year. It's been one of their most popular models, and yet they couldn't even perfect it over a decade.

Don't get me started on the Focus, either. That car is a piece of shit.

My/spouse record with vehicles:

1978 Camaro Z-28 -- first "real" car. Great vehicle, never had a problem. Kept it four years

1980 Toyota Celica GT -- Again a fine care, few problems, never did more but put oil in it. Sold in 1986

1982 Chevy Blazer K-5 -- Big four wheel drive workhorse. Couldn't keep the alternator belt tight but other than that a flawless vehicle. Traded in in 1986

1986 Chrysler LeBaron -- piece of shit. Still kept it four years, spent shop time every six months for engine problems, never held an alignment

1986 Buick Century -- great car, transmission played out after only four years though.

1990 Mitsubishi Monterro -- without a doubt the best vehicle I have ever owned to day. Drove the HELL out of it for 11 years, put 140,000 miles on it, 20,000 of it legit four wheel driving on colorado jeep trails! Never did more than oil and lube and one timing chain change.

1991 Ford F-150 -- crap truck. Fuel pump went out every four months. Nothing but trouble

1994 -- Chevy conversion van -- great vehicle never a problem.

1996 - Chevy Tahoe -- another flawless vehicle. Never a problem

1999 Jeep Grand Cherokee Laredo -- Ok, niddling problem with small electrical stuff.

2000 Chevy Cavalier -- ok, not too many problems, very basic car so nothing to break

2004 -- Pontiac Sunfire -- piece of shit. Period. In the shop for something all the time. flat fell apart and rusted through in five years

2002 Toyota Sienna Van -- pretty solid, a few issues after hit 100,000 mile basically very solid, still have it

2006 Toyota Highlander -- again a solid SUV no problems yet.


Kid cars:

1998 Pontiac Grand Am -- last the boy 10 years, some issues but generally a solid car

2000 Saturn -- the little two door thing. Rock solid, no issue

1995 Dodge Dakota pickup -- decent, a few issues but overall solid pickup.



That's it, judge for yourself.....