Let Detroit Go Bankrupt

[WillowTree]

IF General Motors, Ford and Chrysler get the bailout that their chief executives asked for yesterday, you can kiss the American automotive industry goodbye. It won’t go overnight, but its demise will be virtually guaranteed.

Without that bailout, Detroit will need to drastically restructure itself. With it, the automakers will stay the course — the suicidal course of declining market shares, insurmountable labor and retiree burdens, technology atrophy, product inferiority and never-ending job losses. Detroit needs a turnaround, not a check.

I love cars, American cars. I was born in Detroit, the son of an auto chief executive. In 1954, my dad, George Romney, was tapped to run American Motors when its president suddenly died. The company itself was on life support — banks were threatening to deal it a death blow. The stock collapsed. I watched Dad work to turn the company around — and years later at business school, they were still talking about it. From the lessons of that turnaround, and from my own experiences, I have several prescriptions for Detroit’s automakers.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/19/opinion/19romney.html?_r=1&hp

 

[DavidS]

IF General Motors, Ford and Chrysler get the bailout that their chief executives asked for yesterday, you can kiss the American automotive industry goodbye. It won’t go overnight, but its demise will be virtually guaranteed.

Without that bailout, Detroit will need to drastically restructure itself. With it, the automakers will stay the course — the suicidal course of declining market shares, insurmountable labor and retiree burdens, technology atrophy, product inferiority and never-ending job losses. Detroit needs a turnaround, not a check.

I love cars, American cars. I was born in Detroit, the son of an auto chief executive. In 1954, my dad, George Romney, was tapped to run American Motors when its president suddenly died. The company itself was on life support — banks were threatening to deal it a death blow. The stock collapsed. I watched Dad work to turn the company around — and years later at business school, they were still talking about it. From the lessons of that turnaround, and from my own experiences, I have several prescriptions for Detroit’s automakers.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/19/opinion/19romney.html?_r=1&hp

I hope he doesn't ever expect Michigan to vote for him.

 

[sealybobo]

IF General Motors, Ford and Chrysler get the bailout that their chief executives asked for yesterday, you can kiss the American automotive industry goodbye. It won’t go overnight, but its demise will be virtually guaranteed.

Without that bailout, Detroit will need to drastically restructure itself. With it, the automakers will stay the course — the suicidal course of declining market shares, insurmountable labor and retiree burdens, technology atrophy, product inferiority and never-ending job losses. Detroit needs a turnaround, not a check.

I love cars, American cars. I was born in Detroit, the son of an auto chief executive. In 1954, my dad, George Romney, was tapped to run American Motors when its president suddenly died. The company itself was on life support — banks were threatening to deal it a death blow. The stock collapsed. I watched Dad work to turn the company around — and years later at business school, they were still talking about it. From the lessons of that turnaround, and from my own experiences, I have several prescriptions for Detroit’s automakers.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/19/opinion/19romney.html?_r=1&hp

Way to go arguing in favor of lowing American workers wages! You are a true idiot! Do you see what is happening to the middle class? Are you rich? Fucking retard.

 

[DavidS]

Way to go arguing in favor of lowing American workers wages! You are a true idiot! Do you see what is happening to the middle class? Are you rich? Fucking retard.

Wait. What? What's your problem Sealy? Are you FOR the bailout of Detroit?

 

[WillowTree]

Way to go arguing in favor of lowing American workers wages! You are a true idiot! Do you see what is happening to the middle class? Are you rich? Fucking retard.

I can tell you did not read the op... do you knee jerk all the time or just over the auto industry.. It's a good article you should take the time to read it.. then tell me why you disagree..

 

[NOBama]

Way to go arguing in favor of lowing American workers wages! You are a true idiot! Do you see what is happening to the middle class? Are you rich? Fucking retard.

Anybody who thinks UAW wages can remain as they are whilst their computers pay a fraction of the wage is the real idiot.

But, then again, anybody who has to call somebody a "fucking retard" to make a point is already an idiot.

 

[editec]

Yes, let all those workers become computer programmers.

Good plan.

 

[DavidS]

Yes, let all those workers become computer programmers.

Good plan.

I don't care if they become ballet dancers - I don't want one red cent going to these CEOs who have hundreds of millions and won't take a pay cut to help save their own company. Read my thread about their private jets.

 

[sealybobo]

Wait. What? What's your problem Sealy? Are you FOR the bailout of Detroit?

Of course!

I'm also for kicking Toyota and Honda out of this country if they are part of lowering our wages. $15 hr. is bullshit!!! But the dirty south loves it.

Or, maybe the south can buy Toyota's and Honda's and the North needs to start buying American again.

The Big 3 are restructuring. They are fixing what's broken.

But I also agree the BOD's and CEO's should all be fired or should step down.

And this proves that the Big 3's problems are not the expensive labor. The union workers didn't stop the executives from coming up with better cars.

But regardless. I don't like that the GOP let Toyota and Honda in to compete with American car manufacturers. Just like we can't compete with Chinese slave labor, it's hard for the Big 3 to compete with Toyota when WE pay so much better. And I don't think the solution is to start paying our labor less. I am labor. I may be White collar, but I'm still a worker bee. Fuck with these manufacturers and you and I are next.

I'm not for or against bailouts. If it is needed to keep the Big 3 going, do it. The USA made money when Chrysler paid back the loan they got in the 80's.

And I bet Toyota CEO's and VP's don't make as much as the Big 3 exec's. So why don't the Big 3 exec's start cutting their own salaries first, and get rid of their corporate jets before they ask labor to take a pay cut.

What I don't agree with are the Republican morons who want the Big 3 to go chapter 11. Then WE pick up all those pensions? No thanks.

Plus, having American car manufacturers is vital to the country/economy. You people don't realize the USA doesn't produce shit anymore. And we went from the largest creditor nation to the largest debtor nation.

But I'm not going to spend another 8 years trying to explain to you people what's going on. Anyone who's GOP or in favor of letting the Big 3 fail, or any of you idiots who buy Toyota's and Honda's, don't realize what you are doing to the middle class. And I assume you are middle class too.

Please tell me what you do for a living. If you are for letting the Big 3 go bankrupt, please let me know what you do for a living.

 

[Red Dawn]

Let Detroit Go Bankrupt

Well, it won't just be detroit. Because the auto industry relies on subcontractors and subsidiary industries all over the midwest and the nation. Millions of people across the nation will be unemployed if the big three go under.


But, I agree with you. I think "Let Detroit Go Bankrupt" should be the mantra and rallying cry for republicans in congress and all over the nation. Well done. I totally concur with you.

 

[WillowTree]

I don't care if they become ballet dancers - I don't want one red cent going to these CEOs who have hundreds of millions and won't take a pay cut to help save their own company. Read my thread about their private jets.

errrrrrrr, I don't want to burst yer hate bubble, but all three said on the hill yesterday they were willing to work for one dollar, if we gave them the money,, but giving them the money only forestalls the inevitable unless they change what they are presently doing. Amen?

 

[WillowTree]

Of course!

I'm also for kicking Toyota and Honda out of this country if they are part of lowering our wages. $15 hr. is bullshit!!! But the dirty south loves it.

Or, maybe the south can buy Toyota's and Honda's and the North needs to start buying American again.

The Big 3 are restructuring. They are fixing what's broken.

But I also agree the BOD's and CEO's should all be fired or should step down.

And this proves that the Big 3's problems are not the expensive labor. The union workers didn't stop the executives from coming up with better cars.

But regardless. I don't like that the GOP let Toyota and Honda in to compete with American car manufacturers. Just like we can't compete with Chinese slave labor, it's hard for the Big 3 to compete with Toyota when WE pay so much better. And I don't think the solution is to start paying our labor less. I am labor. I may be White collar, but I'm still a worker bee. Fuck with these manufacturers and you and I are next.

I'm not for or against bailouts. If it is needed to keep the Big 3 going, do it. The USA made money when Chrysler paid back the loan they got in the 80's.

And I bet Toyota CEO's and VP's don't make as much as the Big 3 exec's. So why don't the Big 3 exec's start cutting their own salaries first, and get rid of their corporate jets before they ask labor to take a pay cut.

What I don't agree with are the Republican morons who want the Big 3 to go chapter 11. Then WE pick up all those pensions? No thanks.

Plus, having American car manufacturers is vital to the country/economy. You people don't realize the USA doesn't produce shit anymore. And we went from the largest creditor nation to the largest debtor nation.

But I'm not going to spend another 8 years trying to explain to you people what's going on. Anyone who's GOP or in favor of letting the Big 3 fail, or any of you idiots who buy Toyota's and Honda's, don't realize what you are doing to the middle class. And I assume you are middle class too.

Please tell me what you do for a living. If you are for letting the Big 3 go bankrupt, please let me know what you do for a living.

cry us a river. Detroit builds pieces of crap that fall apart before I can pay for them Damn right I'm buying Toyota.. Get over it..

 

[sealybobo]

cry us a river. Detroit builds pieces of crap that fall apart before I can pay for them Damn right I'm buying Toyota.. Get over it..

You are anti American. Why don't you move to Japan?

 

[del]

You are anti American. Why don't you move to Japan?

why don't you build a decent car?

 

[WillowTree]

You are anti American. Why don't you move to Japan?

wait for it but don't hold yer breath.. now why don't you explain to us how you can expect Detroit to compete when their cars cost two grand more than their competitors? What good is bailout money if it dosen't change anything? You can't force us to buy your shitty products,, remember? This is a global market now.. you need to get up to speed.. you know there are Mexican vegetable sitting in the grocery shelves in the central Valley of California? Thanks to Billboard.

 

[NOBama]

Yes, let all those workers become computer programmers.

Good plan.

Sorry, but we import computer programmers from third world countries these days. They work cheaper, they don't whine about working, and their better educated.

Once again, we cut our own throats.

 

[Care4all]

TRUTH
Toyota paid their employees MORE than UAW workers were paid in 2007.


This is really getting me pissed off that everyone is blaming the workers for their wages as the reason for the big 3's demise....

When one finds out that toyota employees average pay was $30 bucks an hour last year with bonuses paid while UAW workers was $27...

THIS MEANS it is NOT the high wage employees that are making the American auto companies not profitable,

IT IS THEIR MANAGEMENT.

STOP with the crap that the employees are the ones that caused this crap....when it was the Auto Industry executives that caused it....

When you have an American CEO of the auto industry making 450 TIMES the average worker, and with Toyota you have the CEO getting paid 22 times the average worker....

UAW Losing Pay Edge: Foreign Automakers' Bonuses Boost Wages in U.S. Plants as Detroit Car Companies Struggle


Thursday, February 01, 2007

From Detroit Free Press

The UAW is losing its edge in pay compared with non-unionized U.S. assembly plant workers for foreign companies, even as Detroit automakers aim for deeper benefit cuts to trim their losses.

In at least one case last year, workers for a foreign automaker for the first time averaged more in base pay and bonuses than UAW members working for domestic automakers, according to an economist for the Center for Automotive Research and figures supplied to the Free Press by auto companies.

In that instance, Toyota Motor Corp. gave workers at its largest U.S. plant bonuses of $6,000 to $8,000, boosting the average pay at the Georgetown, KY, plant to the equivalent of $30 an hour. That compares with a $27 hourly average for UAW workers, most of whom did not receive profit-sharing checks last year. Toyota would not provide a U.S. average, but said its 7,000-worker Georgetown plant is representative of its U.S. operations.

Honda Motor Co. and Nissan Motor Co. are not far behind Toyota and UAW pay levels. Comparable wages have long been one way foreign companies fight off UAW organizing efforts.

But Toyota workers' pay topping that of UAW members comes as the union faces contract negotiations this year with struggling Detroit companies that will seek billions in concessions, partly because they face higher costs for retiree health care and pensions than their foreign-owned competitors.

UAW Losing Pay Edge: Foreign Automakers' Bonuses Boost Wages in U.S. Plants as Detroit Car Companies Struggle: aftermarket News

 

[NOBama]

Does that mean Toyota is obligated to give their workers a bonus every year now? What does their union have to say about this?

 

[Care4all]

Does that mean Toyota is obligated to give their workers a bonus every year now? What does their union have to say about this?

no, their bonuses are paid by how well the company does overall....

it is not a guarantee of money, bonuses never are....they are based on goals, if you or the company overall achieves their goals then the employees "share the wealth".

care

 

[DiamondDave]

Yet even Businessweek reports that UAW workers get about $70 an hour in wages and benefits, which is about $25 more per hour than Toyota