Zone1 Things that block people from God

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

I have heard the stories my whole life…

I just don’t believe them
Seems like a Fairy Tale

I believed in them until I was probably about 30 and then I actually started thinking for myself

 

[buttercup]

Hmm. Sounds like a theory. Maybe you should try to demonstrate and illustrate it instead of just rolling over and accepting it.

I don't just "roll over and accept" those points simply because someone told me or because it's what the Bible says... I believe those points are true because I have seen it with my own eyes, both in my life and in the lives of others.

But I'm not really sure how I'm supposed to demonstrate those points to you. I'll tell you what, I'll think about how to try to explain it in words, and I'll get back to this probably tomorrow. Thanks for chiming in.

 

[Dagosa]

I don't just "roll over and accept" those points simply because someone told me or because it's what the Bible says... I believe those points are true because I have seen it with my own eyes, both in my life and in the lives of others.

But I'm not really sure how I'm supposed to demonstrate those points to you. I'll tell you what, I'll think about how to try to explain it in words, and I'll get back to this probably tomorrow. Thanks for chiming in.

What is the difference between you seeing anything (with your own eyes) and some else seeing the same thing. It’s still just your opinion of the meaning of what you see.

For example. If I ask a believer for proof of god and they start talking about the beauty of a sunset or a Mozart symphony, my reply might be, .my favorite color is blue and I really prefer country music, so you’ll have to do better.”

That’s opinion, not a demonstration we all can agree upon. I want to see a real miracle....not someone’s interpretation. Because, let’s be clear, less than 10% of the people when the Bible was written could read or write. So really, they were the ones with the power to dictate what constituted “ god.”

Unless, you’re saying that only those who were literate could “ see” god.

 

[Dagosa]

Thanks...I guess I was presupposing disbelief. When I said "blocked from God" I meant that they can't believe, or even if they do have some belief in the existence of a higher power, there's still something blocking them from accepting and trusting God.

“ Trusting God” Is that something you’re born with or indoctrinated into ?

 

[Blues Man]

1. Sin (Isaiah 59:2, Colossians 1:21)
2. Pride (Psalm 10:4, James 4:6)
3. The enemy (2 Corinthians 4:4)
4. Preoccupation with this world (1 John 2:15, Romans 1:25)

Sometimes I hear nonbelievers say things like "I would like to believe, but I just don't." So for the sake of those who say that with sincerity, I felt it would be worthwhile to point out that certain things can block people from God. Or another way to put it is, there are certain things that are blinding.

This may not be a complete list, so if you're a believer, feel free to add to this list, in case I left anything out.

Sin only exists in religious dogma so saying sin blocks people from gods is the same as saying religion blocks people from gods.

Pride is a sin in both the OT and the NT

There is no enemy

And a preoccupation with other worlds is just a faster way to die.

 

[Blues Man]

Greed and the evil within them. Men are evil. They are more evil when they don't believe they answer to anyone else. It's a.vicious cycle.

Only if you want to believe that.

No one is inherently good or inherently evil. These are just titles humans have made up.

You cannot have good without its opposite so when you create the good you necessarily create the evil.

 

[Blues Man]

Unfortunately, Democrats have a tendency to say out loud what's in their hearts.

And republicans lie about what's in theirs

 

[forkup]

1. Sin (Isaiah 59:2, Colossians 1:21)
2. Pride (Psalm 10:4, James 4:6)
3. The enemy (2 Corinthians 4:4)
4. Preoccupation with this world (1 John 2:15, Romans 1:25)

Sometimes I hear nonbelievers say things like "I would like to believe, but I just don't." So for the sake of those who say that with sincerity, I felt it would be worthwhile to point out that certain things can block people from God. Or another way to put it is, there are certain things that are blinding.

This may not be a complete list, so if you're a believer, feel free to add to this list, in case I left anything out.

With me it's 4. I'm preoccupied with the world I actually know exists.

The problem with God is that I don't need him to explain this world. In fact, in my view there's no need to believe in God, but plenty of reasons to be extremely skeptical. The more "organized" the religion the bigger the problem.

First off, there have been and are thousands of religions. Every single one of them accepted as fact, by those who believe.

If I would believe in Zeus, you would undoubtedly have no problem understanding and pointing out that the stories about Zeus are outlandish and unbelievable. Yet the Bible is equally unbelievable.

In the time of Zeus, further North they believed in the power of nature, druids interpreted nature as a God.

Now you are not a Hindu. Yet all Hindu believe that they know the truth just as fervently.

Even Christianity, what you believe in was completely different 1000 years ago. Believing all in the Bible as True. Adam and Eve, the Great Flood, Sampson and Delilah. All true. Now that's rare within Christianity. Necessitating an increasing non literal interpretation.

Of the thousands of beliefs and interpretation of those beliefs most of them wildly different, at best 1 is correct, yet all of them are believed equally fervently.

If any one God(s) is a thousand to 1 shot. I rather stick with what I know is likely true.

 

[rightwinger]

Perhaps he is waiting for you to come up to him...

I will pay

I will save a seat at the bar

 

[Meriweather]

I believed in them until I was probably about 30 and then I actually started thinking for myself

What, in your thinking, particularly struck you that has you thinking what you now think?

 

[Meriweather]

I will save a seat at the bar

Except...he's waiting for you at his bar. When will you show up for the seat he is saving for you?

 

[Blues Man]

Except...he's waiting for you at his bar. When will you show up for the seat he is saving for you?

Too bad you have to be dead to get in

 

[Meriweather]

Too bad you have to be dead to get in

Except that you don't.

 

[Blues Man]

Except that you don't.

Sure you do I have never seen a bar owned by Jesus anywhere I can go.

Tell me does beer in the "spirit world" give you a buzz?

 

[Meriweather]

I have never seen a bar owned by Jesus anywhere I can go.

Neither have I.

Tell me does beer in the "spirit world" give you a buzz?

Tell me about the beer in the "spirit world". I have no knowledge of it.

 

[Blues Man]

Neither have I.

Tell me about the beer in the "spirit world". I have no knowledge of it.

So how do you know Jesus owns a bar anywhere?

 

[Meriweather]

So how do you know Jesus owns a bar anywhere?

Sigh. Where did I say Jesus did?

 

[rightwinger]

So how do you know Jesus owns a bar anywhere?

 

[buttercup]

What is the difference between you seeing anything (with your own eyes) and some else seeing the same thing. It’s still just your opinion of the meaning of what you see.

For example. If I ask a believer for proof of god and they start talking about the beauty of a sunset or a Mozart symphony, my reply might be, .my favorite color is blue and I really prefer country music, so you’ll have to do better.”

That’s opinion, not a demonstration we all can agree upon. I want to see a real miracle....not someone’s interpretation. Because, let’s be clear, less than 10% of the people when the Bible was written could read or write. So really, they were the ones with the power to dictate what constituted “ god.”

Unless, you’re saying that only those who were literate could “ see” god.

Well...I don't want this to turn into yet another atheist vs theist debate on the existence of God. But I do want to respond to one thing that you said. You said, "I want to see a real miracle" (before you believe, was the implication.)

Here's the thing. Back in the day when Jesus actually walked this earth, He performed a number of miracles, but there were STILL those who disbelieved the Gospel, even with the miracles that they saw with their own eyes.

So the takeaway from that is that for many unbelievers it's not a matter of not having evidence, or proof. It's typically a heart issue.

Now, I know what you might be getting ready to say. You're probably going to say, "But how do we know he really performed miracles? All you have is those words written in a book."

And this is getting off topic, but Jesus' miracles are also documented in other writings, outside the Bible. But here's the interesting part... ENEMIES of Christianity who had every reason in the world to deny any claims of miracles altogether did not do that. In their writings they actually corroborate Jesus' miracles, but instead of attributing them to Jesus' divinity, they said it was sorcery, or some sort of demonic thing.

But again, I didn't want this to turn into a debate on God's existence. Getting back to my post that you replied to, when I said I believe those points (in the OP) not simply because they're in the Bible but because I've seen it with my own eyes and the lives of others... I wasn't saying that you should just take my word for it and believe those points yourself simply because I said I have found they're true. You can take it or leave it, but one day if you become a believer, I am sure you will look back and realize that one or more (maybe all) of the things on that list had blocked you from God, but you didn't realize it at the time.

That's all I'm going to say about that.

 

[Dagosa]

Well...I don't want this to turn into yet another atheist vs theist debate on the existence of God. But I do want to respond to one thing that you said. You said, "I want to see a real miracle" (before you believe, was the implication.)

Here's the thing. Back in the day when Jesus actually walked this earth, He performed a number of miracles, but there were STILL those who disbelieved the Gospel, even with the miracles that they saw with their own eyes.

So the takeaway from that is that for many unbelievers it's not a matter of not having evidence, or proof. It's typically a heart issue.

Now, I know what you might be getting ready to say. You're probably going to say, "But how do we know he really performed miracles? All you have is those words written in a book."

And this is getting off topic, but Jesus' miracles are also documented in other writings, outside the Bible. But here's the interesting part... ENEMIES of Christianity who had every reason in the world to deny any claims of miracles altogether did not do that. In their writings they actually corroborate Jesus' miracles, but instead of attributing them to Jesus' divinity, they said it was sorcery, or some sort of demonic thing.

But again, I didn't want this to turn into a debate on God's existence. Getting back to my post that you replied to, when I said I believe those points (in the OP) not simply because they're in the Bible but because I've seen it with my own eyes and the lives of others... I wasn't saying that you should just take my word for it and believe those points yourself simply because I said I have found they're true. You can take it or leave it, but one day if you become a believer, I am sure you will look back and realize that one or more (maybe all) of the things on that list had blocked you from God, but you didn't realize it at the time.

That's all I'm going to say about that.

Everyone who can read or write has the power over everyone else. Obviously, it’s all word of mouth. No recording devises just a story after another, handed down from one to another. There was no god in ant if it. And just to make my point,

“That's all I'm going to say about that.”

Simply means you are one of those trained not to be a critical thinker.