Zone1 There's no rational, reasoned argument for a ban on AR15s (2)

[2aguy]

If it looks cool then that is your argument. You still avoid the question which is why would you need a weapon that was based on killing the eneny in war time. So I would guess your at war with ?????????

Yeah.....as a simple clod, you didn't pay attention to Massad Ayoob....so here.....you can watch it again, get a small child to explain it too you since you seem to have comprehension problems.....

The youtube video of Massad Ayoob, fire arm expert, expert witness for defense cases........is below...

watch

 

[Kilroy2]

And you just showed us you have no idea what you are talking about........

Nashville

AR-15 rifle 6 killed

Kerch, Russia

5 shot, pump action shotgun, not a rifle, no magazine

20 killed

Navy Yard shooting

5 shot, pump action shotgun,not a rifle, no magazine

12 killed

Cumbria shooting in Britain...

...no semi-auto rifle...... Double barrel shotgun, bolt action rifle

13 killed, 11 injured....

Santa Fe, High school shooting

No rifle, pump action shotgun, .38 caliber revolver

10 killed

The gun does not determine how many are killed

The amount of time the killer has in a gun free zone before someone shoots and stops them determines how many get killed as the two example above show.


==========

So your justification is that other weapons can kill multiple people. So it doesn't matter if they can do it quicker with an assult rifle. Yet if they had an assult rifle, what would have been the causalties. Its clear that if the shooter had an assult rifle then there would have been more.

You seem to miss that point.

Your argument that because they were not used, indicates that assualt rifles get a bad "rep". They have a bad reputation because they can cause more damage in each scanario you propose. The only things that matter is the response of law enforcement and the number of people in the crowd.

Yet the number of people killed in any scanario is based on the number of people who are targets. It depends on if its an open space and no place to hide. It depends on the response of law enforcement. A sniper in a croweded area and can shoot multiple people. Yet with pressing the trigger once does make it more easily.

Is that your point to make it easily.

 

[2aguy]

So your justification is that other weapons can kill multiple people. So it doesn't matter if they can do it quicker with an assult rifle. Yet if they had an assult rifle, what would have been the causalties. Its clear that if the shooter had an assult rifle then there would have been more.

You seem to miss that point.

Your argument that because they were not used, indicates that assualt rifles get a bad "rep". They have a bad reputation because they can cause more damage in each scanario you propose. The only things that matter is the response of law enforcement and the number of people in the crowd.

Yet the number of people killed in any scanario is based on the number of people who are targets. It depends on if its an open space and no place to hide. It depends on the response of law enforcement. A sniper in a croweded area and can shoot multiple people. Yet with pressing the trigger once does make it more easily.

Is that your point to make it easily.

No....you don't understand anything you are talking about.......you are just spewing out left wing talking points....

The number of people murdered in a mass public shooting is not dependent on the gun.....it depends on how much free time the killer has in the gun free zone before someone with a gun stops them......either distracting them, or wounding or killing them with a gun of their own.......

The distances involved in all but one mass public shooting, the attack in Las Vegas that occurred out to 400 yards, means that the rifle had no adcvantages over a shotgun or pistols.......

The anti-gun fanatics, the ones leading the gun grabbing rather than the dupes like you supporting it......push the AR-15 because they believe if they can get the AR-15 banned, they can then use it to get all other semi-automatic rifles, pistols and shotguns banned...because they all operate the same exact way.....

You dupes have created gun free killing spaces for these attacks...keeping normal people from carrying their own legal guns......and this draws the attacks by mass public shooters...

We know this because the mass public shooters tell us this in their statements and their writings...
===========
Its clear that if the shooter had an assult rifle then there would have been more.


As it is clear below....the shooter did not have any rifle in the other attacks, and managed to kill more people than the Nashville shooter....so you are just wrong....



Nashville

AR-15 rifle 6 killed

Kerch, Russia

5 shot, pump action shotgun, not a rifle, no magazine

20 killed

Navy Yard shooting

5 shot, pump action shotgun,not a rifle, no magazine

12 killed

Cumbria shooting in Britain...

...no semi-auto rifle...... Double barrel shotgun, bolt action rifle

13 killed, 11 injured....

Santa Fe, High school shooting

No rifle, pump action shotgun, .38 caliber revolver

10 killed

Luby's Cafe

24 killed, 2 pistols

Virgina Tech

32 people killed, 2 pistols.

The gun does not determine how many are killed and you have been explained this over and over

The amount of time the killer has in a gun free zone before someone shoota and stops them determines how many get killed as the two example above show.


==========
From 1982....various attacks.....most done without rifles, you twit.


Gilroy, semi-auto rifle with large magazine....3 killed

Dayton, democrat, socialist, antifa member, elizabeth warren supporter, semi-auto rifle with regular magazine....9 killed.

Umpquaa Community college shooting....5 pistols, 9 killed

Charleston Church shooting, 9 dead, 1 pistol.

Atlanta spree shooting.... 9 dead 3 pistols

Red Lake shooting 10 dead 2 pistols.

Santa Fe High school shooting...no rifle, no magazine.....shot gun and .38 revolver... 10 killed

Russian Polytechnic school shooting.... no rifle, no magazine.....tube fed, 5 shot, pump action shotgun....20 killed, 40 injured.

Navy Yard shooting.... no rifle, no magazine, tube fed pump action shotgun, 5,6 or 7 shot pump action shotgun....12 killed

Virginia Tech.... 32 people killed, 2 pistols.

Luby's cafe.... 24 killed, 2 pistols

British, Cumbria shooting....no semi-auto rifle...... Double barrel shotgun, bolt action rifle 13 killed, 11 injured....

Fort Hood....1 pistol....13 killed

Virginia beach...2 pistols .... 12 killed

 

[Kilroy2]

The AR-15 is not a military rifle.....that you repeat that lie shows you are either ignorant, or a liar........likely both....

The FOIA request itself was prompted from a Nov. 2017 article in The Atlantic in which the magazine, unsurprisingly to anyone familiar with its anti-gun bent, attempted to bolster a claim that “these rifles were meant for the military, not civilians.”


Original ATF AR-15 Classification Refutes Claim that Rifle ‘Not Meant’ for Civilians

It is based on a military weapon. Just because the military does not use the AR-15 is a simplistic argument. The AR-15 is a military weapon because it copies the same features as military grade weapons thtat they are based onl The technology is not that difficult to copy. It just a matter of naming the civilian verson.

They are generally capable of firing far more bullets, far faster than manual-action hunting rifles. If your argument that AR-15 does not do that, then you have a point. Yet it does so you don't.

The name does no differentialte the charateristic of what a weapon can do.

Please try again

 

[2aguy]

It is based on a military weapon. Just because the military does not use the AR-15 is a simplistic argument. The AR-15 is a military weapon because it copies the same features as military grade weapons thtat they are based onl The technology is not that difficult to copy. It just a matter of naming the civilian verson.

They are generally capable of firing far more bullets, far faster than manual-action hunting rifles. If your argument that AR-15 does not do that, then you have a point. Yet it does so you don't.

The name does no differentialte the charateristic of what a weapon can do.

Please try again

You didn't read the link....

It was patented as a civilian weapon.......it has never been used by the military.

You called it an "assault weapon," not me....you made that stupid argument, and now that you are called out, now you are saying it doesn't matter.........

It doesn't copy the same features since it can't fire burst or fully automatic.......

It is a standard semi-automatic rifle just like every other semi-automatic rifle.......

You are an ignorant fool, willing to give up a useful tool simply based on emotion.........you are a typical left wing, brain dead foot soldier..........

 

[AZrailwhale]

Again, with an AR-15 the shooter got off 152 rounds in 10 minutes.


Are you hoping for better?

That's only fifteen rounds a minute. I could easily do that with a bolt or lever action rifle. British troops were expected to be able to HIT a target at 300 yards a MINIMUM of fifteen times in a minute with a bolt action SMLE Lee-Enfield .303 caliber rifle. A skilled shooter could manage thirty to thirty-five HITS in a minute with TWO halts in firing to replenish the ten round internal magazine.

 

[2aguy]

That's only fifteen rounds a minute. I could easily do that with a bolt or lever action rifle. British troops were expected to be able to HIT a target at 300 yards a MINIMUM of fifteen times in a minute with a bolt action SMLE Lee-Enfield .303 caliber rifle. A skilled shooter could manage thirty to thirty-five HITS in a minute with TWO halts in firing to replemnish the ten round internal magazine.

And at the range of a school classroom? With small children as the targets?

The anti-gunners have no idea what they are talking about, yet they talk about it with such vigor.....

 

[M14 Shooter]

Again, with an AR-15 the shooter got off 152 rounds in 10 minutes.

The fact you think this is a lot tells us all we need to know.

 

[Kilroy2]

No....you don't understand anything you are talking about.......you are just spewing out left wing talking points....

The number of people murdered in a mass public shooting is not dependent on the gun.....it depends on how much free time the killer has in the gun free zone before someone with a gun stops them......either distracting them, or wounding or killing them with a gun of their own.......

The distances involved in all but one mass public shooting, the attack in Las Vegas that occurred out to 400 yards, means that the rifle had no adcvantages over a shotgun or pistols.......

The anti-gun fanatics, the ones leading the gun grabbing rather than the dupes like you supporting it......push the AR-15 because they believe if they can get the AR-15 banned, they can then use it to get all other semi-automatic rifles, pistols and shotguns banned...because they all operate the same exact way.....

You dupes have created gun free killing spaces for these attacks...keeping normal people from carrying their own legal guns......and this draws the attacks by mass public shooters...

We know this because the mass public shooters tell us this in their statements and their writings...
===========
Its clear that if the shooter had an assult rifle then there would have been more.


As it is clear below....the shooter did not have any rifle in the other attacks, and managed to kill more people than the Nashville shooter....so you are just wrong....



Nashville

AR-15 rifle 6 killed

Kerch, Russia

5 shot, pump action shotgun, not a rifle, no magazine

20 killed

Navy Yard shooting

5 shot, pump action shotgun,not a rifle, no magazine

12 killed

Cumbria shooting in Britain...

...no semi-auto rifle...... Double barrel shotgun, bolt action rifle

13 killed, 11 injured....

Santa Fe, High school shooting

No rifle, pump action shotgun, .38 caliber revolver

10 killed

Luby's Cafe

24 killed, 2 pistols

Virgina Tech

32 people killed, 2 pistols.

The gun does not determine how many are killed and you have been explained this over and over

The amount of time the killer has in a gun free zone before someone shoota and stops them determines how many get killed as the two example above show.


==========
From 1982....various attacks.....most done without rifles, you twit.


Gilroy, semi-auto rifle with large magazine....3 killed

Dayton, democrat, socialist, antifa member, elizabeth warren supporter, semi-auto rifle with regular magazine....9 killed.

Umpquaa Community college shooting....5 pistols, 9 killed

Charleston Church shooting, 9 dead, 1 pistol.

Atlanta spree shooting.... 9 dead 3 pistols

Red Lake shooting 10 dead 2 pistols.

Santa Fe High school shooting...no rifle, no magazine.....shot gun and .38 revolver... 10 killed

Russian Polytechnic school shooting.... no rifle, no magazine.....tube fed, 5 shot, pump action shotgun....20 killed, 40 injured.

Navy Yard shooting.... no rifle, no magazine, tube fed pump action shotgun, 5,6 or 7 shot pump action shotgun....12 killed

Virginia Tech.... 32 people killed, 2 pistols.

Luby's cafe.... 24 killed, 2 pistols

British, Cumbria shooting....no semi-auto rifle...... Double barrel shotgun, bolt action rifle 13 killed, 11 injured....

Fort Hood....1 pistol....13 killed

Virginia beach...2 pistols .... 12 killed

Your point that it depends on the time they have before law enforcement arrives or there is a response to the shooting.

So the questin is how many bullets can be fired in 5 minutes for an example

A standard semi-auto AR15 chambered in .223/5.56mm can fire up to 45 rounds per minute, allowing the user to adjust and compensate for center mass as they are firing. Full auto and binary triggers will greatly increase the rate of fire.

using math then in 5 minutes with no response from law enforcement within those 5 minutes. The rifle can shout 225 bullets.

I wander what would be the damage in 5 minutes. ? well granted it depends also on the magazine size. So anywhere between 30 to a 100 rounds especially with an after market magazine or bump stop modifications.

Gee how long does it take to replace an empty magazine with a full one. ?

 

[2aguy]

Your point that it depends on the time they have before law enforcement arrives or there is a response to the shooting.

So the questin is how many bullets can be fired in 5 minutes for an example

A standard semi-auto AR15 chambered in .223/5.56mm can fire up to 45 rounds per minute, allowing the user to adjust and compensate for center mass as they are firing. Full auto and binary triggers will greatly increase the rate of fire.

using math then in 5 minutes with no response from law enforcement within those 5 minutes. The rifle can shout 225 bullets.

I wander what would be the damage in 5 minutes. ? well granted it depends also on the magazine size. So anywhere between 30 to a 100 rounds especially with an after market magazine or bump stop modifications.

Gee how long does it take to replace an empty magazine with a full one. ?

No.....as my many, many examples show......a 5 shot, pump action shotgun, not a rifle of any kind, no magazine......manually loading for each shot..........was used to murder 20 people, not 3 in Kerch........the local police arrived in between 10-15 minutes........

The rifle is a long range weapon that loses all of it's properties when used in the confined space of a building...........so again....the type of gun is not relevant....how fast you can shoot at the attacker causing them to stop their attack is the important part...

Gun free zones allow the attacker to kill without having to stop because someone is shooting at them.....

The attacker in Nashville chose this school over two others because the other two had more security....

 

[Kilroy2]

• Feb. 14, 2018: Shooting at Stoneman Douglas High School shooting in Florida leaves 17 people dead.
• Oct. 1, 2017: The Las Vegas slaughter of 58 people.
• Nov. 5, 2017: The Sutherland Springs, Texas, church shooting that claimed 26 lives.
• June 12, 2016: The Pulse nightclub shooting in Orlando, Fla., that left 49 dead.
• Dec. 2, 2015: The San Bernardino, Calif., shooting that killed 14 people.
• Dec. 14, 2012: The shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Connecticut that took 27 lives

Shootings that use an Ar-15 style weapon meaning any weapon that is semi automatic.

note this is just a partial list.

questin why would you need a semi automatic weapon if your just target practicing or shooting deer or other wild animals?

Does it make hitting the target easier with very little skill needed? Or is that deer so damn fast so you need an advantage?

Does it give shoooters a sense of excitement when shooting that many bullets?

 

[Kilroy2]

No.....as my many, many examples show......a 5 shot, pump action shotgun, not a rifle of any kind, no magazine......manually loading for each shot..........was used to murder 20 people, not 3 in Kerch........the local police arrived in between 10-15 minutes........

The rifle is a long range weapon that loses all of it's properties when used in the confined space of a building...........so again....the type of gun is not relevant....how fast you can shoot at the attacker causing them to stop their attack is the important part...

Gun free zones allow the attacker to kill without having to stop because someone is shooting at them.....

The attacker in Nashville chose this school over two others because the other two had more security....

• Oct. 1, 2017: The Las Vegas slaughter of 58 people using an semi automatic weapon.

 

[M14 Shooter]

Oct. 1, 2017: The Las Vegas slaughter of 58 people using an semi automatic weapon.

So?
"All bearable arms".

 

[Kilroy2]

You didn't read the link....

It was patented as a civilian weapon.......it has never been used by the military.

You called it an "assault weapon," not me....you made that stupid argument, and now that you are called out, now you are saying it doesn't matter.........

It doesn't copy the same features since it can't fire burst or fully automatic.......

It is a standard semi-automatic rifle just like every other semi-automatic rifle.......

You are an ignorant fool, willing to give up a useful tool simply based on emotion.........you are a typical left wing, brain dead foot soldier..........

It is not a miltary weapon because the military does not use it. Yet it modeled after miltary styled weapons with semi automatic shooting. Just because the military does not use the specific AR -15 just means that you are focusing on the name instead of the semi automatic shooting feature which defines semi automatic weapoons dispite what they name it.

 

[M14 Shooter]

It is not a miltary weapon because the military does not use it. Yet it modeled after miltary styled weapons with semi automatic shooting. Just because the military does not use the specific AR -15 just means that you are focusing on the name instead of the semi automatic shooting feature which defines semi automatic weapoons dispite what they name it.

So?
"All bearable arms".

 

[2aguy]

• Feb. 14, 2018: Shooting at Stoneman Douglas High School shooting in Florida leaves 17 people dead.
• Oct. 1, 2017: The Las Vegas slaughter of 58 people.
• Nov. 5, 2017: The Sutherland Springs, Texas, church shooting that claimed 26 lives.
• June 12, 2016: The Pulse nightclub shooting in Orlando, Fla., that left 49 dead.
• Dec. 2, 2015: The San Bernardino, Calif., shooting that killed 14 people.
• Dec. 14, 2012: The shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Connecticut that took 27 lives

Shootings that use an Ar-15 style weapon meaning any weapon that is semi automatic.

note this is just a partial list.

questin why would you need a semi automatic weapon if your just target practicing or shooting deer or other wild animals?

Does it make hitting the target easier with very little skill needed? Or is that deer so damn fast so you need an advantage?

Does it give shoooters a sense of excitement when shooting that many bullets?

The only one where the rifle made a difference was Las Vegas where the distance was 400 yards...all of the others ciuld have been done with a shotgun or pistols.....in fact, the next two shootings after las vegas with the highest murder number were Lubys cafe ...24, Virginia Tech, 32 both done with two hand guns.......

 

[2aguy]

• Feb. 14, 2018: Shooting at Stoneman Douglas High School shooting in Florida leaves 17 people dead.
• Oct. 1, 2017: The Las Vegas slaughter of 58 people.
• Nov. 5, 2017: The Sutherland Springs, Texas, church shooting that claimed 26 lives.
• June 12, 2016: The Pulse nightclub shooting in Orlando, Fla., that left 49 dead.
• Dec. 2, 2015: The San Bernardino, Calif., shooting that killed 14 people.
• Dec. 14, 2012: The shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Connecticut that took 27 lives

Shootings that use an Ar-15 style weapon meaning any weapon that is semi automatic.

note this is just a partial list.

questin why would you need a semi automatic weapon if your just target practicing or shooting deer or other wild animals?

Does it make hitting the target easier with very little skill needed? Or is that deer so damn fast so you need an advantage?

Does it give shoooters a sense of excitement when shooting that many bullets?

Watch the documemtary series, Active Shooter, on Showtime or Stars.... The pulse night club shooter could have done what he did with a shotgun or pistols........and from actual witness testimnoy from survivors in the club, you would see that had anyone in there had a gun, they could easily have stoped the shooter at severalnpoints in the attack.....and it is another case where the police did not go in immediately

the rifle didnt make any difference

 

[2aguy]

It is not a miltary weapon because the military does not use it. Yet it modeled after miltary styled weapons with semi automatic shooting. Just because the military does not use the specific AR -15 just means that you are focusing on the name instead of the semi automatic shooting feature which defines semi automatic weapoons dispite what they name it.

No.... you ate focusing on common features of civilian weapons and calling them military weapons........because you dont like them

 

[frigidweirdo]

I accept your surrender.

And again, another childish post.

 

[Kilroy2]

No.... you ate focusing on common features of civilian weapons and calling them military weapons........because you dont like them

Your stuck on military weapons which is not the issues. The issues is how it shoots its bullets.

AR-15 is similar in design to other military rifles. There core design is similar. The only thing that it AR -15 does not have is that it is not fully automatic with a flic of a button. Its is a semi automatic weapon. It is not a military weapon because the military use other brands and call it by a different name. The similarity is define by how it shots its bullets. Years ago the military used an AR-10. It was manufactured by the same company.
Colt AR-15 and other company make there own AR-15 weapon.


You want to keep the argument on the notion of military weapon but ignore that multiple weapons are similar in nature even with different names. .

AR is classified an assault weapon based on how it shots.

No.... you ate focusing on common features of civilian weapons and calling them military weapons........because you dont like them

Okay where did I call it a military weapon. I said they were similar to military weapons based on the semi automatic function.