There is only one way to approach the resolve of the racial stratification problem.

[$ecular#eckler]

The premise of "inadequate formulation of government" is a fancy way of saying the framers were provincial hayseed hicks

That is not what I am saying, genius. I am saying that the founders did not have all of the information necessary for organizing a robust government that is needed for the tremendous diversity (and integration) of ideas that the society has evolved to. The Federalist Papers are proof of this. The authors were keen thinkers and recognized the faults of the charter that they were responsible for, but they could not describe the faults as "faults," or "inadequacies," because then they would have been obligated to correct the inadequacies before the people would have been assured of the charter's quality. So, they described the possible exploitation of the inadequacies as being "corruptions" to be on the look out for. And as you know, all of the scholars and pundits exploit the Federalist Papers to denigrate their political opponents as "corrupt," rather than trying to correctly adjust the inadequacies that the Federalists described.

....Problem being is that the gubmint hasn't been operating as formulated for over a century, and pious navel gazers like the OP ignore this fact.

Just because I do not take the time to deliberate an aspect that you think is important to discuss does not mean that I am ignoring it.

I understand the argument. I recognize the problem. I recognize the seemingly aversion from the ideas that we are taught how the government is supposed to operate. The problem is that you, and most other people, do not understand that the operations are not clearly defined in the Constitution; and you ignore the fact that there is a little provision in the Constitution that allows the legislatures to make their own rules. And that is a big fucking problem, genius.

A constitution is supposed to secure the legislative procedure rules for the citizens, and the judiciary is supposed to enforce those rules on the legislatures.

I am the only person in the entire country smart enough to figure that out.

 

[MarathonMike]

Interesting post. I agree that checks and balances failed largely because the Founders did not anticipate such a polarized and dominating two party system would evolve. I think the wild card they were counting on was a free and independent press but that too has been biased and corrupted. I don't know how you create anything new that wouldn't fall to the same bias and corruption.

I do not believe that the founders were counting on the press to do what it is that the industry has lead you, and many others, to believe is the reporters' civic duty. In my research I do not recall any suggestion that it is the duty of the commercial reporting services to do what it is that people seem to believe that they are supposed to do. I am very confident that the founders were very much aware of the independent press' ability to manipulate the reporting of government activities in an effort to promote their interests and subsequent political candidates. I am very confident that there are some quotations from the founders to confirm this.

I am also very confident that the founders were counting on the citizens to realize that their formulation of the government was merely a "start-up," and that it would have to be reordered upon the revelations of (future) technology.

Let us raise a standard to which the wise and honest can repair; the event is in the hand of God.
George Washington, during the 1787 constitutional convention

There is nothing I have read in the Constitution that even hints at the document being intended as a Startup Guide. I would say most of the problems we have inflicted upon ourselves came from poorly worded amendments to the original. On the free press I quote Jefferson:

" A press that is free to investigate and criticize the government is absolutely essential in a nation that practices self-government and is therefore dependent on an educated and enlightened citizenry. "

Of course where we are screwed is our citizenry is dumb as shit and can be lead to believe most anything that the Media dangles in front of them.

 

[martybegan]

I don't know if you've ever considered this, but snobbery isn't a very effective rapport builder.

And in this case unearned snobbery.

So, how am I supposed to "build effective rapport" with the Social Justice Warriors, if I have to limit my "rapport building" with the brilliant people, like you?

How do We convince them that they are incorrect, if we do not appease their sense of ability to participate in the discussions for organizing a public institution for better deliberation of social issues?

It is not my fault if you are so easily offended.

My god you use excess words like a fat man eats excess KFC.

 

[daveman]

Probably not. But then, I'm not demanding we bulldoze the entire United States and start over.

Damn, I'm a good writer!

How did you get this, "Demanding," concept from my innocent little essays???

I am not demanding that we start over. I am "demanding" that we correctly use the technology that has been revealed to correctly adjust the start-up system that we have inherited to more accurately approach true justice. No different than government reform.

Lemme know how demanding anything on the internet works out for you. I gotta be honest, though -- it doesn't look very promising.

 

[IM2]

We need to have a constitutional convention that gathers the diversity of people that the founders and subsequent generations could not gather. The American legends that have been devised to lead us to believe that true justice is possible cannot be achieved under the direction of the 18th century three-part model. The exercise of the 1787 federal Constitution successfully lead to the end of slavery in America, and that was about all it was good for. The design of the government is inherently flawed, and cannot meet the demands of diversity that the nation has evolved to, nor the expectations of a relatively more sophisticated citizenry than the people of the 18th century.

White supremacy and systemic biases are not formulated into the social system. “Systemic biases,” are collateral dysfunction of the imperfect governing system that is in place guiding the society. Black people's encounters with racial prejudice is random, unpredictable, and an unfortunate product of social disorder that can only be rectified by reordering the government chartering system.

The three-part separation model is incorrectly deployed - there is not enough separate entities to correctly do the checks and balances. It should be obvious that the Justice Department should be a separate entity, but it is difficult to understand how to do that within the box of the three-part separation model of the three-level chartering system. Contrary to the popular rhetoric, the founders of the United States are not turning in their graves because of the misuse of the Constitution, but rather, because of the continued exercise of their inadequate formulation of the government. The expansion of the government security departments, and advanced technology, would direct the founders towards a more accurate design of just government. They would certainly not insist that their centuries-old design of a three-part separation system of checks and balances was peerless; and most likely, they would be quick to recognize that the partisan strategies that congest the legislative processes that lead to the social disorderliness that we endure is caused by the lack of an orderly system.

United States Fourth Continental Congress​

Bullshit.

 

[IM2]

..there's not a problem of police brutality or racism...the MAJOR problem is blacks committing crimes at HIGH rates and graduating at low rates
I've linked all the proof/stats before
..there's not a problem of '''racial stratification''' ...explain that

That is it! Did you read this part?

White supremacy and systemic biases are not formulated into the social system. “Systemic biases,” are collateral dysfunction of the imperfect governing system that is in place guiding the society. Black people's encounters with racial prejudice is random, unpredictable, and an unfortunate product of social disorder that can only be rectified by reordering the government chartering system.

The reason Black people have problems is because the government is not designed to smarten-people-up, and desegregation has failed to help Black people build trust in their community - it has caused them to trust White Man's flawed corporate and government systems. And so, they believe that they are going to garner control of the flawed system to oppress white people.

It is hilarious what they are thinking.

Bullshit.

 

[$ecular#eckler]

Bullshit.

Is that all you got?

I'll bet you think you are real smart, but you just don't have time to waste with explaining to me how stupid I am - right???

You think the Constitution, the whole three-part system, that was put together by racists slave owners was/is good???

Come on man. If you're going to topple their statues you have to realize that their system was erroneous. There is no sense in using the white mans junk to lead a diverse society. What are you thinking?

 

[$ecular#eckler]

Lemme know how demanding anything on the internet works out for you. I gotta be honest, though -- it doesn't look very promising.

Thanks for being honest - that is really considerate of you. I arealize that I am not running into the people who are going to further this with me, but I like to see what I do get. I do not understand where you are reading into whaat I have written as being demands. It has to be really good writing on my part. I mean, I'm putting a Black man here into a one word response. It is obvious he understands what I have written, and he is very offended, but cannot compose a response that tries to clarify any misunderstanding. He is not trying. He is completely dumbfounded, because he know that Black people are completely unprepared to attend a constitutional convention.

 

[Dick Foster]

We need to have a constitutional convention that gathers the diversity of people that the founders and subsequent generations could not gather. The American legends that have been devised to lead us to believe that true justice is possible cannot be achieved under the direction of the 18th century three-part model. The exercise of the 1787 federal Constitution successfully lead to the end of slavery in America, and that was about all it was good for. The design of the government is inherently flawed, and cannot meet the demands of diversity that the nation has evolved to, nor the expectations of a relatively more sophisticated citizenry than the people of the 18th century.

White supremacy and systemic biases are not formulated into the social system. “Systemic biases,” are collateral dysfunction of the imperfect governing system that is in place guiding the society. Black people's encounters with racial prejudice is random, unpredictable, and an unfortunate product of social disorder that can only be rectified by reordering the government chartering system.

The three-part separation model is incorrectly deployed - there is not enough separate entities to correctly do the checks and balances. It should be obvious that the Justice Department should be a separate entity, but it is difficult to understand how to do that within the box of the three-part separation model of the three-level chartering system. Contrary to the popular rhetoric, the founders of the United States are not turning in their graves because of the misuse of the Constitution, but rather, because of the continued exercise of their inadequate formulation of the government. The expansion of the government security departments, and advanced technology, would direct the founders towards a more accurate design of just government. They would certainly not insist that their centuries-old design of a three-part separation system of checks and balances was peerless; and most likely, they would be quick to recognize that the partisan strategies that congest the legislative processes that lead to the social disorderliness that we endure is caused by the lack of an orderly system.

United States Fourth Continental Congress​

I've got a better idea. We keep the constitution and the country we have and everyone who is dissatisfied with it can get their asses to hell out of it. I think there have been too damn many who have died, fought, suffered and bled for it to have what we have especially to give it up for a bunch of useless, whining assholes who've contributed nothing.

 

[$ecular#eckler]

There is nothing I have read in the Constitution that even hints at the document being intended as a Startup Guide.

No kidding? Gee whiz, I wonder why not???

I mean they set it up and only commissioned three security departments at the founding: Treasury, State, and War. And now we have about a hundred security departments, and considerble beuracratic chaos - but their design is stable???

I would say most of the problems we have inflicted upon ourselves came from poorly worded amendments to the original.

Good theory, I agree. I believe that the 17th Amendment circumvent the problems in the state legisltures and elevated the partisan and faulty organizational problems of the states to the federal level. It was not an amendment that limited the Representatives to 435 seats comletely subverts the faulty approach to proportional representation. I think term limits is a faulty concept, because there are obviously very few people talented to organize and legislate.

On the free press I quote Jefferson:

" A press that is free to investigate and criticize the government is absolutely essential in a nation that practices self-government and is therefore dependent on an educated and enlightened citizenry. "

Of course where we are screwed is our citizenry is dumb as shit and can be lead to believe most anything that the Media dangles in front of them.

And so, basically, youy agree with my argument that the citizens are responsible for realizing that the system is erroneous.

 

[daveman]

Lemme know how demanding anything on the internet works out for you. I gotta be honest, though -- it doesn't look very promising.

Thanks for being honest - that is really considerate of you. I arealize that I am not running into the people who are going to further this with me, but I like to see what I do get. I do not understand where you are reading into whaat I have written as being demands. It has to be really good writing on my part. I mean, I'm putting a Black man here into a one word response. It is obvious he understands what I have written, and he is very offended, but cannot compose a response that tries to clarify any misunderstanding. He is not trying. He is completely dumbfounded, because he know that Black people are completely unprepared to attend a constitutional convention.

You talk to me about what I say. I have no interest in your passive-aggressive bullshit about somebody else.

Understand, smart guy?

 

[The Irish Ram]

has to be really good writing on my part. I mean, I'm putting a Black man here into a one word response. It is obvious he understands what I have written, and he is very offended, but cannot compose a response that tries to clarify any misunderstanding. He is not trying. He is completely dumbfounded, because he know that Black people are completely unprepared to attend a constitutional convention.

Why would IM2 use more than one word when the one word he used is so apropos?
He nailed it...

 

[Oddball]

Bullshit.

Is that all you got?

I'll bet you think you are real smart, but you just don't have time to waste with explaining to me how stupid I am - right???

You think the Constitution, the whole three-part system, that was put together by racists slave owners was/is good???

Come on man. If you're going to topple their statues you have to realize that their system was erroneous. There is no sense in using the white mans junk to lead a diverse society. What are you thinking?

hehehehehehehehehehehehehehe

 

[Oddball]

I am the only person in the entire country smart enough to figure that out.

 

[$ecular#eckler]

Why would IM2 use more than one word when the one word he used is so apropos?
He nailed it...

Oh, yeah, I see. You're right. Although, the founders were a bunch of racists slave owners that established the government for the betterment of white people, their design of the government is perfect, and cannot be improved.

I'll just crawl back under my rock.

 

[$ecular#eckler]

You talk to me about what I say. I have no interest in your passive-aggressive bullshit about somebody else.

Understand, smart guy?

I did, and you disregarded it, because you cannot answer it?

I realize that I am not running into the people who are going to further this with me, but I like to see what I do get. I do not understand where you are reading into what I have written as being demands. It has to be really good writing on my part.

Can you answer that, genius? Where do you read into my essays that I am making demands???

Do you think it is a bad idea to have a constitutional convention that gathers the diversity of people that the founders and subsequent generations could not gather???

 

[$ecular#eckler]

I've got a better idea. We keep the constitution and the country we have and everyone who is dissatisfied with it can get their asses to hell out of it. I think there have been too damn many who have died, fought, suffered and bled for it to have what we have especially to give it up for a bunch of useless, whining assholes who've contributed nothing.

Come on. You have heard that all your life, and still the culture has devolved to what it is - people are toppling the statues of the founders, and they are not going to leave. They are not going to do as you ask them - they will kill you for being so ignorant.

The culture has devolved, because the government is not what your third grade teacher taught that it was supposed to be. As OddBall described the government has not operated as it is supposed to for a hundred years, and you and OddBall and all of your friends are not going to be able to guide the government employees and political appointees to do it as you believe it is to be; because the directive systems that are supposed to guide the system as you believe it to be, do not work as you believe them to be.

Have you ever tried to organize people to gather ideas and decide which idea to pursue, and then, do it?

Why doesn't the government work as well as when you are in charge?

 

[The Irish Ram]

Why would IM2 use more than one word when the one word he used is so apropos?
He nailed it...

Oh, yeah, I see. You're right. Although, the founders were a bunch of racists slave owners that established the government for the betterment of white people, their design of the government is perfect, and cannot be improved.

I'll just crawl back under my rock.

They established a government for the people in the country.
This country is 75% white. Who would you expect them to design the government for, Asians? Africans?

 

[daveman]

You talk to me about what I say. I have no interest in your passive-aggressive bullshit about somebody else.

Understand, smart guy?

I did, and you disregarded it, because you cannot answer it?

I gave you an answer. I am not obligated to provide answers of which you approve.

In case you missed it, that answer was "No, we're not going to bulldoze the United States."

 

[irosie91]

Probably do not need you. The primary intention is to inspire the people that are most likely to be inclined, talented, and skilled, to order the better government chartering system for the United States that provides for the more tranquil American society and ultimately the approach to world peace.

Most people are not going to be talented and skilled at composing directive systems - we are very few.

Like you, the Social Justice Warriors will probably not be talented and skilled either; but they do need to get some skin in the game. They need to understand how self government works. Do you understand how self government works, genius???

The keyword in the sentence that you highlighted is, "relatively."

Another dippy newb with long drawn out word-shits, and no actual content.

be nice-----call it convoluted sophistry