There is a difference

[IM2]

You are putting a very Christian spin on the Jewish faith. It doesn't work like that in Judaism. A Jew is a Jew is a Jew. The level of religious observance is a matter of practice and not a moral value. That's a Christian perspective, not a Jewish one.

I am so very tired of this very silly "Israel is making Jews less safe" argument. Jews are "less safe" because people wish to commit violence against Jews. If people didn't wish to commit violence against Jews, they just ... wouldn't.

The moral value is pretty damn easy to grasp. The actions of a government do not give rise to a permission to kill all members of a group. (You know what that is, right? Come on. We all know the word for that, don't we?) The fact that evil people believe they have permission to kill all members of a group is what is making Jews "less safe".

Since Christ was a Jew, it's proper to put that "Christian" spin on this. The fact that the Israeli government has declared it is fine to kill all members of a group is making Jews less safe. The fact that the Israeli government has illegally expanded settlements, has allowed violence against Palestinians by settlers, the Nakba, violent Jewish extremists, and the fact that Israel is basically an apartheid state run by an extremist government are also making Jews less safe. The American government's blind support for anything Netanyahu does is another one. I oppose what's being done on both sides. October 6th was a terrible thing, and I do think that Israel has more than got justice for the 1,400 Israelis who died that day after they killed 50-60,000 Palestinians, and there is no reason to be expanding the war.

 

[gipper]

And this is what we are supposed to support and not question.

Agreed.

 

[Shusha]

Since Christ was a Jew, it's proper to put that "Christian" spin on this.

Not telling you not to, just calling it out for what it is.

The fact that the Israeli government has declared it is fine to kill all members of a group is making Jews less safe.

Wait. Slow up. You agree that if a government behaves badly it is fine to kill all members a group? Or do you think, as a moral value, that we should probably not commit genocide against an entire people just because a government may be behaving badly? Because for me the moral value is clear: Don't kill members of a group for being part of a group.

As is typical of people with your values, you hold only one side (Jews) accountable, and entirely ignore the other actor. What makes Jews less safe is people willing to kill Jews.

 

[Shusha]

The fact that the Israeli government has illegally expanded settlements, has allowed violence against Palestinians by settlers, the Nakba, violent Jewish extremists, and the fact that Israel is basically an apartheid state run by an extremist government are also making Jews less safe. The American government's blind support for anything Netanyahu does is another one. I oppose what's being done on both sides. October 6th was a terrible thing, and I do think that Israel has more than got justice for the 1,400 Israelis who died that day after they killed 50-60,000 Palestinians, and there is no reason to be expanding the war.

This is so full of mis- and disinformation it is hard to know where to start. All of the above statements are libels. By that I mean not only are they untrue, they are said for the explicit purpose of demonizing the Jewish State, and, by your very own claims, Jews.

The government of America has declared its intent to remove the sovereignty of several countries, including my own. If Canadians crossed the border to bomb American preschools, would you argue that the government of the US is responsible for making Americans "less safe"? If Canadians bombed Christian preschools, would you argue that the government of the US is responsible for making Christians "less safe"?

You understand that you are justifying terrorism, yes? Making the victims of terrorism responsible for acts of terrorism committed against them.

 

[Shusha]

I do think that Israel has more than got justice for the 1,400 Israelis who died that day after they killed 50-60,000 Palestinians, and there is no reason to be expanding the war.

You understand that the goal of the war was not to achieve "justice", yes? The goal of the war was (is) to remove the threat to Israeli civilians.

 

[IM2]

Not telling you not to, just calling it out for what it is.

Wait. Slow up. You agree that if a government behaves badly it is fine to kill all members a group? Or do you think, as a moral value, that we should probably not commit genocide against an entire people just because a government may be behaving badly? Because for me the moral value is clear: Don't kill members of a group for being part of a group.

As is typical of people with your values, you hold only one side (Jews) accountable, and entirely ignore the other actor. What makes Jews less safe is people willing to kill Jews.

No, I plainly told you that October 7th was wrong. Any attack on Israel has been wrong. But let's not pretend that everything Israel has done was in self-defense. The Nakba was real, and that was a Jewish act of terrorism that displaced the majority of the people living in the land that is now Israel..

 

[IM2]

You understand that the goal of the war was not to achieve "justice", yes? The goal of the war was (is) to remove the threat to Israeli civilians.

The threat that Netanyahu empowered for the last 30 years?

 

[Shusha]

No, I plainly told you that October 7th was wrong. Any attack on Israel has been wrong. But let's not pretend that everything Israel has done was in self-defense. The Nakba was real, and that was a Jewish act of terrorism that displaced the majority of the people living in the land that is now Israel..

You are evading my point by bringing up new ones (which I am more than happy to address once we get past this one.)

If a person kills members of a group for belonging to the group, who is responsible for the act of killing?

 

[Shusha]

The threat that Netanyahu empowered for the last 30 years?

See? There you go again. The threat that exists against Israeli citizens. That threat. The threat of people who want to kill Israeli citizens (Jews).

 

[Lisa558]

See? There you go again. The threat that exists against Israeli citizens. That threat. The threat of people who want to kill Israeli citizens (Jews).

It seems he already told you: he blames the Jews themselves when someone kills Jews. That is how strong his antisemitism is.

Ironically, no matter how heinous the behavior of a black may be, he never blames blacks. It’s always someone else’s fault.

 

[IM2]

This is so full of mis- and disinformation it is hard to know where to start. All of the above statements are libels. By that I mean not only are they untrue, they are said for the explicit purpose of demonizing the Jewish State, and, by your very own claims, Jews.

The government of America has declared its intent to remove the sovereignty of several countries, including my own. If Canadians crossed the border to bomb American preschools, would you argue that the government of the US is responsible for making Americans "less safe"? If Canadians bombed Christian preschools, would you argue that the government of the US is responsible for making Christians "less safe"?

You understand that you are justifying terrorism, yes? Making the victims of terrorism responsible for acts of terrorism committed against them.

Wrong. Everything I said is supported by events. There ae Jews who oppose Netanyahu and what he is doing.

What Trump has done HAS made us less safe. I have stated that. The current government of the United States has made every US citizen less safe, not just Christians, because the government of this country has nothing to do with Christianity.

I'm not justifying terrorism. Understand that our country has been the biggest perpetrator of terrorism the world has ever seen. Google the name Moussadegh. Read what was done to him. Then understand that is what started the trouble we have had with Iran.

 

[IM2]

See? There you go again. The threat that exists against Israeli citizens. That threat. The threat of people who want to kill Israeli citizens (Jews).

You ae unable to handle the truth.

This is from the Jerusalem Times

For years, Netanyahu propped up Hamas. Now it’s blown up in our faces

The premier's policy of treating the terror group as a partner, at the expense of Abbas and Palestinian statehood, has resulted in wounds that will take Israel years to heal from

www.timesofisrael.com

Why did Netanyahu empower this "threat."

 

[IM2]

You are evading my point by bringing up new ones (which I am more than happy to address once we get past this one.)

If a person kills members of a group for belonging to the group, who is responsible for the act of killing?

Both sides have been doing that kind of killing. That's not evasion.

 

[Shusha]

Wrong. Everything I said is supported by events.

Nope. Just buzzwords. We can talk about them.

There ae Jews who oppose Netanyahu and what he is doing.

Interesting that you chose "Jews" here, instead of Israelis. Why is that, do you think? Because "Jews" can't actually oppose Netanyahu. No more than I, as a Canadian, can oppose Trump. They didn't vote for him, and can't remove him from power.

What Trump has done HAS made us less safe.

I agree. As a nation. It is an important distinction. The US, by entering a war, has made war more likely to come to the US. But that is not the same as "kill members of the group for belonging to the group" UNLESS you subscribe to the idea of collective punishment and genocide.

 

[Lisa558]

Both sides have been doing that kind of killing. That's not evasion.

1) Only ONE side targets innocent civilians and tortures them to death.

2) You are still evading the question. You are blaming the murder of Jews on Jews themselves.

 

[Shusha]

Both sides have been doing that kind of killing. That's not evasion.

If a person kills a member of the group for being a member of the group, who is responsible for the act of killing? The group? Or the killer?

 

[EdwinAMartin]

Reminds me of “ If you don’t Vote for me you AIN’T BLACK” That same mentally deficient mentality

Well, IM2 and his other socks here are very unlikely to be black anyway. Biden is probably right in Pastor IM2 Whiney's case.

 

[Lisa558]

If a person kills a member of the group for being a member of the group, who is responsible for the act of killing? The group? Or the killer?

Frame the question in a manner he can understand:

If a white kills an innocent black for the sole reason that he is black, who is responsible for the murder? The killer? Or blacks?

 

[EdwinAMartin]

He’s extremely stupid. After WW 11 For the most part Jews were NOT tolerated in Europe. There was a Mayor in France not that long ago who decided his City was “ too Jewish” One VERY SMALL example

Many were still having to live in the camps until 1947. then the Arab states expelled close to a million Jews in 1947. Of course you never see these fake ass 'humanitarians' ever sniveling about that.

 

[Quantrill]

Since Christ was a Jew, it's proper to put that "Christian" spin on this. The fact that the Israeli government has declared it is fine to kill all members of a group is making Jews less safe. The fact that the Israeli government has illegally expanded settlements, has allowed violence against Palestinians by settlers, the Nakba, violent Jewish extremists, and the fact that Israel is basically an apartheid state run by an extremist government are also making Jews less safe. The American government's blind support for anything Netanyahu does is another one. I oppose what's being done on both sides. October 6th was a terrible thing, and I do think that Israel has more than got justice for the 1,400 Israelis who died that day after they killed 50-60,000 Palestinians, and there is no reason to be expanding the war.

Oh gee...are you a 'Christian' to put a Christian spin on this?

Just because you're black doesn't make you a Christian.

As far as the so called 'Palestinians' are concerned, Israel being there at all is illegal and an expanded settlement.

Killing 50 to 60,000 Palestinians, doesn't matter. Takes a whole lot of them to make a dozen.

Israel must constantly expand for its own defense. And the land it has been promised by God involves much more than they have already. And, if you're a Christian, I'm sure you can appreciate that.

Quantrill