CDZ There are TWO Genders: Change My Mind

[rightwinger]

. I don't shove my straightness onto everyone for an entire month, why should you shove your derangement on me every June?

You never had to

You were always free to publicly express your sexuality without retribution.

 

[Confederate Soldier]

. I don't shove my straightness onto everyone for an entire month, why should you shove your derangement on me every June?

You never had to

You were always free to publicly express your sexuality without retribution.

I don't publicly express it, that's just it. Why should I have to get YouTube ads all June long of MEN with BEARDS in DRESSES. It creeps me the hell out, I don't want to see it. You notice it only happens in June though? Like companies don't care either, they just want their money.

 

[itfitzme]

Seriously, the hysteria of the left right now is absolutely insane.

Okay, we know of the two biological sexes, male and female. While there are genetic disorders that give people traits of both, those genetic disorders are extremely rare, and even when they do happen the person exhibits the traits of one sex much more predominantly than the other. The idea of a “hermaphrodite” is almost a myth, there really is no genetic disorder that allows for fully functional sex organs of both sexes. Besides, according to these “trans” advocates, gender is different than biological sex.

So we aren’t talking about people with some rare genetic disorder, as some have now started to move the goalposts and have been bringing them up. This is about “gender”.

These trans activists are claiming that a male can “be a woman” just by self identifying as one. Sure, they have the right to self identify all they want, but that doesn’t make their fantasy a reality, nor does or should society have to accept it.

For example, a male that pretends to be a female is still a man. He’s a cross dressing man.

A male that undergoes some “sex change” surgery is still a man and a male. His chromosomes do not change, they are still XY.

Same of course goes with females pretending to be men. Their biological sex does not change, so neither does their gender.


For those screaming in horror about the simple statement “there are TWO genders, men and women”, what are the other genders? Please provide specific examples.

This is Clean Debate Zone. Please keep the childish insults to yourself, and provide a clear and concise response.

Yeah, I think you made the entire argument against your concept with "While there are genetic disorders that give people traits of both, those genetic disorders are extremely rare"

So,, your point is that unless a person is ideally male and ideally female, it is therefore a disorder. And by disorder, you mean, "something wrong with it." And you have predefined it as being "rare". You are also creating a false framing, defining it in terms of physically observable attributes.

It's a strawman argument.

 

[theHawk]

Seriously, the hysteria of the left right now is absolutely insane.

Okay, we know of the two biological sexes, male and female. While there are genetic disorders that give people traits of both, those genetic disorders are extremely rare, and even when they do happen the person exhibits the traits of one sex much more predominantly than the other. The idea of a “hermaphrodite” is almost a myth, there really is no genetic disorder that allows for fully functional sex organs of both sexes. Besides, according to these “trans” advocates, gender is different than biological sex.

So we aren’t talking about people with some rare genetic disorder, as some have now started to move the goalposts and have been bringing them up. This is about “gender”.

These trans activists are claiming that a male can “be a woman” just by self identifying as one. Sure, they have the right to self identify all they want, but that doesn’t make their fantasy a reality, nor does or should society have to accept it.

For example, a male that pretends to be a female is still a man. He’s a cross dressing man.

A male that undergoes some “sex change” surgery is still a man and a male. His chromosomes do not change, they are still XY.

Same of course goes with females pretending to be men. Their biological sex does not change, so neither does their gender.


For those screaming in horror about the simple statement “there are TWO genders, men and women”, what are the other genders? Please provide specific examples.

This is Clean Debate Zone. Please keep the childish insults to yourself, and provide a clear and concise response.

Yeah, I think you made the entire argument against your concept with "While there are genetic disorders that give people traits of both, those genetic disorders are extremely rare"

So,, your point is that unless a person is ideally male and ideally female, it is therefore a disorder. And by disorder, you mean, "something wrong with it." And you have predefined it as being "rare". You are also creating a false framing, defining it in terms of physically observable attributes.

It's a strawman argument.

Wrong. The argument at hand is whether or not people can choose some other gender for the themselves. Genetically there are two genders, extremely rare genetic disorders do not create a third gender, but rather a male OR female with genetic disorders with their reproductive system.

 

[woodwork201]

What I agree with is that there should be common sense in all matters. And a careful approach should be applied concerning children in this case.

Elementary school and middle school (for some part) should be excluded from any sexual education. There should be comprehend program developed by teachers and psychologists how to deal with such matters in high school.

Well, common sense is that you can't change your sex. Common sense is that pretending to be what you aren't leads to psychological problems - and that includes pretending to be a different sex or gender from your birth sex. Common sense says that we don't make allow parents to turn their little boys in to little fake-girls, or their little girls into little fake-boys, simply because the child says they wish it were so. Common sense is that we don't make changes to the bodies or hormones of children that can't be reversed. Common sense is that courts don't supersede fathers in determining what pronouns are used to address their own daughters.

Common sense is that parent's leave their own children, and the children of anyone and everyone else, out of their stupid political, anti-family agenda.

The problem, of course, is that common sense isn't so very common, is it?

 

[woodwork201]

Wrong. The parents, and only the parents teach their children about such matters and, if the parents choose, they can involve a psychologist.

Not at all. Education of children is a prime goal of all school system. Though, that doesn't mean that parents shouldn't take part in children's education too.

Education, not indoctrination. And, in government of the people, by the people, for the people, it is the parents, not the government, who say what their schools teach their children. Our schools no longer educate our children at all; there are school districts where virtually zero high-school graduates can pass reading or writing tests.

This is an older story bit it certainly hasn't gotten better since this was written - 80% of NYC public school graduates cannot read or write:

With 80 Percent of Public School Graduates Unable to Read, NYC Mayor Kicks 700 Kids Out of Charter Schools

New York City's new socialist Mayor, Bill De Blasio, has kicked 700 students out of charter schools.

townhall.com

 

[woodwork201]

So,, your point is that unless a person is ideally male and ideally female, it is therefore a disorder. And by disorder, you mean, "something wrong with it." And you have predefined it as being "rare". You are also creating a false framing, defining it in terms of physically observable attributes.

It's a strawman argument.

Interesting; science is now a strawman.

It's not about physically observable attributes. That's what you're making it about. If a man uses hormones or implants to enlarge his breasts and wears women' clothing, all purely physical attributes (the breasts still can't make milk to feed a baby), you're calling him, and expecting us to call him, a woman.

You're a hypocrite.

 

[ESay]

Well, common sense is that you can't change your sex.

Biologically, yes you will remain what you was born.

Common sense is that pretending to be what you aren't leads to psychological problems - and that includes pretending to be a different sex or gender from your birth sex.

It is up to psychiatrists to decide. Some time ago, homosexual behavior was considered as a mental disorder.

Common sense says that we don't make allow parents to turn their little boys in to little fake-girls, or their little girls into little fake-boys, simply because the child says they wish it were so

What if a child (a girl) refuses to wear girls' outfit, respond to her name and uses males pronouns when talking about herself?

Common sense is that we don't make changes to the bodies or hormones of children that can't be reversed

Agree. I think that hormonal therapy and surgeries should be forbidden for kids.

Common sense is that courts don't supersede fathers in determining what pronouns are used to address their own daughters.

Give a certain example of such a case (it actually hapenned, right?). That cant be discussed without details.

Common sense is that parent's leave their own children, and the children of anyone and everyone else, out of their stupid political, anti-family agenda.

Anti family agenda is a very broad definition. And various people can put different meanings in this term.

The problem, of course, is that common sense isn't so very common, is it?

Yeah, that is true, unfortunately.

 

[ESay]

Wrong. The parents, and only the parents teach their children about such matters and, if the parents choose, they can involve a psychologist.

Not at all. Education of children is a prime goal of all school system. Though, that doesn't mean that parents shouldn't take part in children's education too.

Education, not indoctrination. And, in government of the people, by the people, for the people, it is the parents, not the government, who say what their schools teach their children. Our schools no longer educate our children at all; there are school districts where virtually zero high-school graduates can pass reading or writing tests.

This is an older story bit it certainly hasn't gotten better since this was written - 80% of NYC public school graduates cannot read or write:

With 80 Percent of Public School Graduates Unable to Read, NYC Mayor Kicks 700 Kids Out of Charter Schools

New York City's new socialist Mayor, Bill De Blasio, has kicked 700 students out of charter schools.

townhall.com

Well, a question about educational system is highly complex. The mentioned statistic is a total failure and disgrace. What can be done with that? That brings even more questions than answers.

The most basic question is what education the society needs. And what to do with those schools and teachers who cant give even basic knowledge to their students. And what to do with such students which literally refuse to learn something.

I cant offer comprehensible answers on these questions now. All that derserves a separate topic of discussion.

 

[woodwork201]

Well, common sense is that you can't change your sex.

Biologically, yes you will remain what you was born.
Good. That should be the end of this thread.

Common sense is that pretending to be what you aren't leads to psychological problems - and that includes pretending to be a different sex or gender from your birth sex.

It is up to psychiatrists to decide. Some time ago, homosexual behavior was considered as a mental disorder.
Homosexuality IS a mental disorder. That doesn't mean it has to be fixed; we all have some bit of mental disorder, but it is unnatural and deviant from the norm, therefore it's a disorder. It's not up to psychiatrists to decide; they're not gods.

Common sense says that we don't make allow parents to turn their little boys in to little fake-girls, or their little girls into little fake-boys, simply because the child says they wish it were so

What if a child (a girl) refuses to wear girls' outfit, respond to her name and uses males pronouns when talking about herself?
That's between the child and her parents. The Courts and schools have nothing to do with it - or should have nothing to do with it.

Common sense is that we don't make changes to the bodies or hormones of children that can't be reversed

Agree. I think that hormonal therapy and surgeries should be forbidden for kids.

Common sense is that courts don't supersede fathers in determining what pronouns are used to address their own daughters.

Give a certain example of such a case (it actually hapenned, right?). That cant be discussed without details.
HERE is an example:

Father jailed after referring to biological female child as his daughter

The warrant was issued by a judge for the arrest of a father after calling his biological female child his “daughter,” and referring to her with the pronouns “she” and “her.” He was found to be in contempt of court.

thepostmillennial.com

Doesn't matter that it's in Canada; it's still what's being done to children so leftists can destroy familial relationships.

Common sense is that parent's leave their own children, and the children of anyone and everyone else, out of their stupid political, anti-family agenda.

Anti family agenda is a very broad definition. And various people can put different meanings in this term.

The problem, of course, is that common sense isn't so very common, is it?

Yeah, that is true, unfortunately.

Expand the quote and see responses in red.

 

[GLASNOST]

There are TWO Genders: Change My Mind​

I have no intention of changing your mind. There ARE only two genders.

 

[GLASNOST]

I think it was more than 2 years ago, when Target wanted to install new bathrooms. Instead of two usual bathrooms, they were going to add a third bathroom. How did that go?

I was in Tokyo in 1966. Most places (if not all places) had only one place to do your business. They had stalls just like everywhere in the west today and it didn't matter if you were a man or a woman.

 

[ESay]

Well, common sense is that you can't change your sex.

Biologically, yes you will remain what you was born.
Good. That should be the end of this thread.

Common sense is that pretending to be what you aren't leads to psychological problems - and that includes pretending to be a different sex or gender from your birth sex.

It is up to psychiatrists to decide. Some time ago, homosexual behavior was considered as a mental disorder.
Homosexuality IS a mental disorder. That doesn't mean it has to be fixed; we all have some bit of mental disorder, but it is unnatural and deviant from the norm, therefore it's a disorder. It's not up to psychiatrists to decide; they're not gods.

Common sense says that we don't make allow parents to turn their little boys in to little fake-girls, or their little girls into little fake-boys, simply because the child says they wish it were so

What if a child (a girl) refuses to wear girls' outfit, respond to her name and uses males pronouns when talking about herself?
That's between the child and her parents. The Courts and schools have nothing to do with it - or should have nothing to do with it.

Common sense is that we don't make changes to the bodies or hormones of children that can't be reversed

Agree. I think that hormonal therapy and surgeries should be forbidden for kids.

Common sense is that courts don't supersede fathers in determining what pronouns are used to address their own daughters.

Give a certain example of such a case (it actually hapenned, right?). That cant be discussed without details.
HERE is an example:

Father jailed after referring to biological female child as his daughter

The warrant was issued by a judge for the arrest of a father after calling his biological female child his “daughter,” and referring to her with the pronouns “she” and “her.” He was found to be in contempt of court.

thepostmillennial.com

Doesn't matter that it's in Canada; it's still what's being done to children so leftists can destroy familial relationships.

Common sense is that parent's leave their own children, and the children of anyone and everyone else, out of their stupid political, anti-family agenda.

Anti family agenda is a very broad definition. And various people can put different meanings in this term.

The problem, of course, is that common sense isn't so very common, is it?

Yeah, that is true, unfortunately.

Expand the quote and see responses in red.

Homosexuality IS a mental disorder. That doesn't mean it has to be fixed; we all have some bit of mental disorder, but it is unnatural and deviant from the norm, therefore it's a disorder. It's not up to psychiatrists to decide; they're not god
-- So, consider transgenders as a mental disorder too, if you want. That won't change the fact that they should live the lives of 'normal' people, without infringing their rights.

HERE is an example
-- I read something about this story some time ago. Even there was a discussion about it somewhere here. I don't remember much of that, though. What my vague memory says is that the father wasn't 'saint' in this story, but I don't remember the details.

Anyway, that leads to another point:
What if a child (a girl) refuses to wear girls' outfit, respond to her name and uses males pronouns when talking about herself?
That's between the child and her parents. The Courts and schools have nothing to do with it - or should have nothing to do with it

-- I don't agree with that. Sometimes, parents cause more harm to their children that do something good.

 

[Cecilie1200]

I think it was more than 2 years ago, when Target wanted to install new bathrooms. Instead of two usual bathrooms, they were going to add a third bathroom. How did that go?

I was in Tokyo in 1966. Most places (if not all places) had only one place to do your business. They had stalls just like everywhere in the west today and it didn't matter if you were a man or a woman.

There are also places in the world where people commonly squat behind a bush to do their business. Just because someone somewhere does it doesn't mean I want to do it or that it's a good thing.

 

[TemplarKormac]

Gender is immutable. That's it, that's all. Physical and genetic expression of gender is absolutely immutable, even if you mutilate yourself to be something you aren't.

Transgenderism would never exist if parents weren't encouraged to you know, exacerbate a known mental disorder.

And... why are we still talking about this? Humans have existed for 1.5 million years. Even primitive humans back then didn't have this kind of trouble identifying as the proper sex. Man is man, woman is woman.

(Bangs wooden club on the ground, makes caveman noises)

 

[JoeMoma]

I am a man. If through some unexplainable magic I were wake up in a woman's body tomorrow, I believe I could adapt to being a woman, perhaps a lesbian, but still a woman. Why? Because being male does not define me.

 

[justinacolmena]

Are they predators?The two I have met were painfully shy. You must know many Transexuals to have formed such and opinion.

There is of course a sense on which two and only two genders must exist.

The "painfully" part is due to rejection by peers of the same identified gender.

A romantic or sexual or romantic,-,like relationship requires in some way the roles of two and only two genders to be played — and that to be pleasurable rather than painful on both parts.

Guys who fuck subordinate guys in the butt and girls who force other girls to grow beards and play the role of a boyfriend ruin life for everyone.

 

[justinacolmena]

Gender is immutable.

That's the problem. All human fetuses start out as female, and only later do the males develop closed genitals and male features.

 

[woodwork201]

There are TWO Genders: Change My Mind​

I have no intention of changing your mind. There ARE only two genders.

Two sexes. There can be as many genders as people want. Gender is, by definition, what you choose to call something, not what something is. I don't care if someone calls themselves other than what they are; just don't make me do it.

 

[justinacolmena]

Two sexes. There can be as many genders as people want

That doesn't cut any water.