There Are No Permanent Secular-Political-Solutions To Spiritual Problems.

[JAG]

JAG, there's no evidence of Democrats believing that everyone has to vote democrat.

Why must you people always immediately jump to such radical conclusions in regular debate?

"Speaking of "knowing nothing about Christianity", why do you call yourself Death Angel ?"___MarcATL


JAG there's no evidence of Democrats believing that everyone has to vote democrat.
Why must you people always immediately jump to such radical conclusions in regular debate?"___MacrATL


"Why do so many self-proclaimed Christians of the conservative ilk believe that they have the
lock on Christianity, when everything they do doesn't reflect Christianity?
Do you and/or your family believe that Christians can, read should, only vote Republican"___MarcATL

___________

Do you really think that up there is debate?
That's not debate.
That's the very opposite of debate.
That kind of posting kills off serious discussion in a flash.
It puts people on the defense.
It does not explore ideas, rather it explores veiled mild hostility.
But that's okay. This is the Internet.
But still it shuts down debate, it does not encourage debate.
/just saying , , ,



`

 

[Grumblenuts]

Source -

This finding has now been confirmed in numerous laboratory and field studies. Overall, the results are clear: No matter how we define morality, religious people do not behave more morally than atheists, although they often say (and likely believe) that they do.

When and where religion has an impact
On the other hand, religious reminders do have a documented effect on moral behavior.

Studies conducted among American Christians, for example, have found that participants donated more money to charity and even watched less porn on Sundays. However, they compensated on both accounts during the rest of the week. As a result, there were no differences between religious and nonreligious participants on average.

{...snip...}

The co-evolution of God and society
Scientific evidence suggests that humans – and even our primate cousins – have innate moral predispositions, which are often expressed in religious philosophies. That is, religion is a reflection rather than the cause of these predispositions.

But the reason religion has been so successful in the course of human history is precisely its ability to capitalize on those moral intuitions.

 

[Grumblenuts]

Short version: Not a "spritual problem." People pay religious institutions to confirm their irrational biases against atheists. Doesn't make them more moral, just fleeced.

 

[LuckyDuck]

This Opening Post is NOT to discuss any political issue.
This Opening Post is ONLY to re-affirm the truth of:
"If my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray
and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven,
and I will forgive their sin and will heal their land.___2 Chronicles 7:14

_____________

I wrote this piece mainly for Christians, but non-Christians might find it
interesting.

Introductory Remarks:
My entire family are Christians. We are all strong Conservatives.
We are all Republicans. We have always voted for the Republican Party.
We always will do that. We support Law and Order.
Laws are necessary. Laws do reduce crime.
Politics is necessary. Politics is merely what we do {policies , , , political policies}
Nations do what they do, because they believe what they believe.
There is no possible way to escape "the political process."
Politics is here to stay until the end of time.

Politics can temporarily solve some human problems.

But politics can never solve the root problem, which is spiritual.

A diseased ROOT will always produce "bad policies" fruit.

Fix one political problem, and another will appear somewhere else.

Diseased root. You must cure the "bad root" problem. to have good fruit.

So? So there are better solutions to human problems than political
solutions. These better solutions are spiritual solutions,

Nonetheless , , ,
Many Christians seek political solutions to what they will admit are
spiritual problems.

They seek to "elect the right kind of men" to political office with the goal of
fixing America's many moral, economic, and political problems.

Read this next paragraph very carefully , , ,
They want the Christian moral code to become a reality through the political
process. My view is this is utterly impossible to achieve. Here is my view of
that in a nutshell: There is not a shred of Biblical evidence that teaches the
way to fix a nation’s spiritual problems, is to elect “the right kinds of politicians"
to public office. That is pure fantasy. The notion that: If we can "just somehow
elect the right politicians", then we can legislate the Christian moral code into
law” is pure fiction. This is never going to materialize and become a reality.

Here are some of my reasons why:

My view is that permanent change can not come through political laws and
through the “political process." It is impossible to solve human problems apart
from the supernatural power of God Almighty, and His Son the Lord Jesus,
and the power of the Holy Spirit.

{1} You must first change hearts before you can change minds.
{2} All human moral problems are at root spiritual problems.
{3} Moral problems are what causes political and economic problems.
{4} There are no lasting secular political solutions for spiritual problems.
{5} But there are lasting spiritual solutions to spiritual problems.
{6} Those solutions must start with this:
{A} John 3:3 You must be born again.
{B} John 3:16 You must accept the Lord Jesus as your Savior.
{C} Galatians 5:22-23 You must allow the Holy Spirit to produce
the fruits of the Holy Spirit in your life, which are:
{a} love
{b} joy
{c} peace
{d} patience
{e} kindness
{f} goodness
{g} faithfulness
{h} gentleness
{i} self-control
This changes the "root" of the problem.
This changes the heart.
Which then changes the mind.
So that men now desire to do what is right without being "forced to do right"
by the political process , , ,Laws , , Police with guns , , Jail Time , ,etc

Anything not the above will fail to permanently solve the "political" problem
You can “throw money” at it.
You can “throw laws” at it.
You will fail.
If you DO solve the problem in one area, the same ROOT problem will
pop-up in another area. We saw this principle being played out in the
streets of America as rioting, looting, burning cars, burning buildings,
physical assaults, and murdering people was occurring right in front of
Law Enforcement Officers and elected politicians, who, at the time, did
not prevent it from happening. All this has a "root problem" that has
been a reality for decades, and if this present social chaos is "solved"
by politics, the "root problem" will re-appear, in another form, somewhere
else in the "garden" of America. Its merely a question of "when" and "where"
and "how bad" it will be, the next time it pops-up.

"If my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray
and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven,
and I will forgive their sin and will heal their land.___2 Chronicles 7:14


``

At last count, there are an estimated 4,200 established religions. Of those religions, many live good moral lives in spiritual peace, without your Jesus. Two that can be immediately brought to mind are Buddhism and Jainism. Very peaceful and very moral. No Jesus, needed or wanted. The same can be said of many of those other 4,198 religions. No doubt they are experiencing "spiritual peace" in their own religion.
There are also ample Atheists that are at peace, internally, with themselves in their belief that no deities exist and lead decent lives.

 

[JAG]

This Opening Post is NOT to discuss any political issue.
This Opening Post is ONLY to re-affirm the truth of:
"If my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray
and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven,
and I will forgive their sin and will heal their land.___2 Chronicles 7:14

_____________

I wrote this piece mainly for Christians, but non-Christians might find it
interesting.

Introductory Remarks:
My entire family are Christians. We are all strong Conservatives.
We are all Republicans. We have always voted for the Republican Party.
We always will do that. We support Law and Order.
Laws are necessary. Laws do reduce crime.
Politics is necessary. Politics is merely what we do {policies , , , political policies}
Nations do what they do, because they believe what they believe.
There is no possible way to escape "the political process."
Politics is here to stay until the end of time.

Politics can temporarily solve some human problems.

But politics can never solve the root problem, which is spiritual.

A diseased ROOT will always produce "bad policies" fruit.

Fix one political problem, and another will appear somewhere else.

Diseased root. You must cure the "bad root" problem. to have good fruit.

So? So there are better solutions to human problems than political
solutions. These better solutions are spiritual solutions,

Nonetheless , , ,
Many Christians seek political solutions to what they will admit are
spiritual problems.

They seek to "elect the right kind of men" to political office with the goal of
fixing America's many moral, economic, and political problems.

Read this next paragraph very carefully , , ,
They want the Christian moral code to become a reality through the political
process. My view is this is utterly impossible to achieve. Here is my view of
that in a nutshell: There is not a shred of Biblical evidence that teaches the
way to fix a nation’s spiritual problems, is to elect “the right kinds of politicians"
to public office. That is pure fantasy. The notion that: If we can "just somehow
elect the right politicians", then we can legislate the Christian moral code into
law” is pure fiction. This is never going to materialize and become a reality.

Here are some of my reasons why:

My view is that permanent change can not come through political laws and
through the “political process." It is impossible to solve human problems apart
from the supernatural power of God Almighty, and His Son the Lord Jesus,
and the power of the Holy Spirit.

{1} You must first change hearts before you can change minds.
{2} All human moral problems are at root spiritual problems.
{3} Moral problems are what causes political and economic problems.
{4} There are no lasting secular political solutions for spiritual problems.
{5} But there are lasting spiritual solutions to spiritual problems.
{6} Those solutions must start with this:
{A} John 3:3 You must be born again.
{B} John 3:16 You must accept the Lord Jesus as your Savior.
{C} Galatians 5:22-23 You must allow the Holy Spirit to produce
the fruits of the Holy Spirit in your life, which are:
{a} love
{b} joy
{c} peace
{d} patience
{e} kindness
{f} goodness
{g} faithfulness
{h} gentleness
{i} self-control
This changes the "root" of the problem.
This changes the heart.
Which then changes the mind.
So that men now desire to do what is right without being "forced to do right"
by the political process , , ,Laws , , Police with guns , , Jail Time , ,etc

Anything not the above will fail to permanently solve the "political" problem
You can “throw money” at it.
You can “throw laws” at it.
You will fail.
If you DO solve the problem in one area, the same ROOT problem will
pop-up in another area. We saw this principle being played out in the
streets of America as rioting, looting, burning cars, burning buildings,
physical assaults, and murdering people was occurring right in front of
Law Enforcement Officers and elected politicians, who, at the time, did
not prevent it from happening. All this has a "root problem" that has
been a reality for decades, and if this present social chaos is "solved"
by politics, the "root problem" will re-appear, in another form, somewhere
else in the "garden" of America. Its merely a question of "when" and "where"
and "how bad" it will be, the next time it pops-up.

"If my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray
and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven,
and I will forgive their sin and will heal their land.___2 Chronicles 7:14


``

At last count, there are an estimated 4,200 established religions. Of those religions, many live good moral lives in spiritual peace, without your Jesus. Two that can be immediately brought to mind are Buddhism and Jainism. Very peaceful and very moral. No Jesus, needed or wanted. The same can be said of many of those other 4,198 religions. No doubt they are experiencing "spiritual peace" in their own religion.
There are also ample Atheists that are at peace, internally, with themselves in their belief that no deities exist and lead decent lives.

_____

Lucky Duck,
* Please read this post carefully.
* It might make a valuable contribution to your life.
* I wrote it hoping that it would.
* My post contains no hostility.
* Just sharing some thoughts with you.


"At last count, there are an estimated 4,200 established religions."___Lucky Duck

* I doubt that.
* Yet, if there is some 7.5 billion people on Earth, then, in a sense, there are
7.5 different religions on Earth since there are no two people on Earth that
are identical in what they believe, religiously speaking.
* My view is that the 4,200 stat is unrealistic and cannot be supported with
credible evidence.

* John and John's wife announce they are starting a new religion.
* John's wife goes along with her hubby, but she is not totally convinced.
* Presto! We now have Johnism as a new "World religion."
* Johnism has 2 members.
* Such as that up there is where the some 4,200 "religions" came from, me thinks.

___________


* There are 7 World Religions that are of significant size.
{1} Christianity
{2} Judaism
{3} Islam
{4} Buddhism
{5} Hinduism
{6} Confucianism
{7} Taoism
_______________
You can add:
~ Sikhism
~ Bahai
~ Shinto

"Of those religions, many live good moral lives in spiritual peace, without
your Jesus."___Lucky Duck

* You have no way of knowing if they live in peace or if they don't live in peace.
* You cannot read minds and hearts.
* You don't know if they will always be without the Lord Jesus.
* The Holy Spirit has direct access to every human mind and heart 24/7/365
everywhere on the planet. You do not know what He does with that access
or how He uses it.
* Many Christian theologians have correctly said that people can experience
the Lord Jesus, in principle, without the actual content of the Bible.
* Think about that! In principle.
* You don't know that this {in principle} is not true.
* Think of water. A small stream leads eventually into a huge River.
The Small Stream is water just as the huge River is water,
The water is the truths of the Bible.
The River is ALL the Biblical truths.
The Small Stream is only a small part of the ALL ie. "the light they do have."
The Small Stream is not the "full light" of ALL the Bible.
But if they obey "the :light they do have" -- then they would
also obey the "full light" if they had it.
If they obey the "small part" they would also obey the "ALL."
The Holy Spirit can, therefore, save any human being anywhere
in the world because they have "in principle" obeyed the "light that
they did have" even thought they did not have "all the light."
In other words water is water whether it is a "Small Stream" or a
huge River.

"Two that can be immediately brought to mind are Buddhism and Jainism.
Very peaceful and very moral. No Jesus, needed or wanted."___Lucky Duck

* You have no way of knowing if the Lord Jesus is wanted or not.
* You just don't.
* You don't have the powers necessary to know that.
* You have no knowledge of what takes place in the secret minds of human beings.
* Polling is nothing more than a snapshot of the moment.
* Pew Research cannot predict the future 20 years hence.
* Much less 100 years hence.
* Pew Research cannot know what is in the secret places of the human heart.
* Read this next point carefully:
* Billy Graham made an interesting statement:
"I think that everybody that loves or knows Christ, whether they are conscious
of it or not, they are members of the body of Christ ... [God] is calling people
out of the world for his name, whether they come from the Muslim world, or
the Buddhist world or the non-believing world, they are members of the Body
of Christ because they have been called by God. They may not know the name
of Jesus but they know in their hearts that they need something they do not
have, and they turn to the only light they have, and I think that they are
saved and they are going to be with us in heaven.[134] "___Billy Graham

Billy Graham - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

"There are also ample Atheists that are at peace, internally, with themselves
in their belief that no deities exist and lead decent lives."___Lucky Duck

* I disagree.
* You can speak for yourself.
* You can give an opinion regarding what those close to you experience.
* But you can never be certain that your understanding of them is correct.
* You can even be self-deluded about what is really in the secret recesses of your
own heart.




``

 

[norwegen]

This Opening Post is NOT to discuss any political issue.
This Opening Post is ONLY to re-affirm the truth of:
"If my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray
and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven,
and I will forgive their sin and will heal their land.___2 Chronicles 7:14

_____________

I wrote this piece mainly for Christians, but non-Christians might find it
interesting.

Introductory Remarks:
My entire family are Christians. We are all strong Conservatives.
We are all Republicans. We have always voted for the Republican Party.
We always will do that. We support Law and Order.
Laws are necessary. Laws do reduce crime.
Politics is necessary. Politics is merely what we do {policies , , , political policies}
Nations do what they do, because they believe what they believe.
There is no possible way to escape "the political process."
Politics is here to stay until the end of time.

Politics can temporarily solve some human problems.

But politics can never solve the root problem, which is spiritual.

A diseased ROOT will always produce "bad policies" fruit.

Fix one political problem, and another will appear somewhere else.

Diseased root. You must cure the "bad root" problem. to have good fruit.

So? So there are better solutions to human problems than political
solutions. These better solutions are spiritual solutions,

Nonetheless , , ,
Many Christians seek political solutions to what they will admit are
spiritual problems.

They seek to "elect the right kind of men" to political office with the goal of
fixing America's many moral, economic, and political problems.

Read this next paragraph very carefully , , ,
They want the Christian moral code to become a reality through the political
process. My view is this is utterly impossible to achieve. Here is my view of
that in a nutshell: There is not a shred of Biblical evidence that teaches the
way to fix a nation’s spiritual problems, is to elect “the right kinds of politicians"
to public office. That is pure fantasy. The notion that: If we can "just somehow
elect the right politicians", then we can legislate the Christian moral code into
law” is pure fiction. This is never going to materialize and become a reality.

Here are some of my reasons why:

My view is that permanent change can not come through political laws and
through the “political process." It is impossible to solve human problems apart
from the supernatural power of God Almighty, and His Son the Lord Jesus,
and the power of the Holy Spirit.

{1} You must first change hearts before you can change minds.
{2} All human moral problems are at root spiritual problems.
{3} Moral problems are what causes political and economic problems.
{4} There are no lasting secular political solutions for spiritual problems.
{5} But there are lasting spiritual solutions to spiritual problems.
{6} Those solutions must start with this:
{A} John 3:3 You must be born again.
{B} John 3:16 You must accept the Lord Jesus as your Savior.
{C} Galatians 5:22-23 You must allow the Holy Spirit to produce
the fruits of the Holy Spirit in your life, which are:
{a} love
{b} joy
{c} peace
{d} patience
{e} kindness
{f} goodness
{g} faithfulness
{h} gentleness
{i} self-control
This changes the "root" of the problem.
This changes the heart.
Which then changes the mind.
So that men now desire to do what is right without being "forced to do right"
by the political process , , ,Laws , , Police with guns , , Jail Time , ,etc

Anything not the above will fail to permanently solve the "political" problem
You can “throw money” at it.
You can “throw laws” at it.
You will fail.
If you DO solve the problem in one area, the same ROOT problem will
pop-up in another area. We saw this principle being played out in the
streets of America as rioting, looting, burning cars, burning buildings,
physical assaults, and murdering people was occurring right in front of
Law Enforcement Officers and elected politicians, who, at the time, did
not prevent it from happening. All this has a "root problem" that has
been a reality for decades, and if this present social chaos is "solved"
by politics, the "root problem" will re-appear, in another form, somewhere
else in the "garden" of America. Its merely a question of "when" and "where"
and "how bad" it will be, the next time it pops-up.

"If my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray
and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven,
and I will forgive their sin and will heal their land.___2 Chronicles 7:14


``

I would say that it is possible, though rare and fleeting. Two civilizations deferred authority to God: patriarchal Israel and colonial America. We might even include the Garden of Eden. In all three, God created law and order, peace and harmony. He forged form and fullness out of an inchoate wilderness. Not only did He endow man with a capacity to enter into covenant with Him, but He also equipped him with a capacity to bring tranquility and discipline into being when He gave him the authority to subdue all that he could survey.

All other civilizations proclaiming God, including post-constitutional America, have done so not without political interference, and so of course they secularize.

The one exception is the kingdom of God, which is the gospel, which no state, let alone any tribe or clan, ever proclaims, but which leaves its imprint nonetheless. How the kingdom remains with us truly is miraculous, for in the minds of Christians around the world, it's elusive. Maybe if the church were to reverse this trend, governments would begin to shrink again.

 

[Grumblenuts]

God created law and order, peace and harmony.

Then who created entropy?

 

[JAG]

This Opening Post is NOT to discuss any political issue.
This Opening Post is ONLY to re-affirm the truth of:
"If my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray
and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven,
and I will forgive their sin and will heal their land.___2 Chronicles 7:14

_____________

I wrote this piece mainly for Christians, but non-Christians might find it
interesting.

Introductory Remarks:
My entire family are Christians. We are all strong Conservatives.
We are all Republicans. We have always voted for the Republican Party.
We always will do that. We support Law and Order.
Laws are necessary. Laws do reduce crime.
Politics is necessary. Politics is merely what we do {policies , , , political policies}
Nations do what they do, because they believe what they believe.
There is no possible way to escape "the political process."
Politics is here to stay until the end of time.

Politics can temporarily solve some human problems.

But politics can never solve the root problem, which is spiritual.

A diseased ROOT will always produce "bad policies" fruit.

Fix one political problem, and another will appear somewhere else.

Diseased root. You must cure the "bad root" problem. to have good fruit.

So? So there are better solutions to human problems than political
solutions. These better solutions are spiritual solutions,

Nonetheless , , ,
Many Christians seek political solutions to what they will admit are
spiritual problems.

They seek to "elect the right kind of men" to political office with the goal of
fixing America's many moral, economic, and political problems.

Read this next paragraph very carefully , , ,
They want the Christian moral code to become a reality through the political
process. My view is this is utterly impossible to achieve. Here is my view of
that in a nutshell: There is not a shred of Biblical evidence that teaches the
way to fix a nation’s spiritual problems, is to elect “the right kinds of politicians"
to public office. That is pure fantasy. The notion that: If we can "just somehow
elect the right politicians", then we can legislate the Christian moral code into
law” is pure fiction. This is never going to materialize and become a reality.

Here are some of my reasons why:

My view is that permanent change can not come through political laws and
through the “political process." It is impossible to solve human problems apart
from the supernatural power of God Almighty, and His Son the Lord Jesus,
and the power of the Holy Spirit.

{1} You must first change hearts before you can change minds.
{2} All human moral problems are at root spiritual problems.
{3} Moral problems are what causes political and economic problems.
{4} There are no lasting secular political solutions for spiritual problems.
{5} But there are lasting spiritual solutions to spiritual problems.
{6} Those solutions must start with this:
{A} John 3:3 You must be born again.
{B} John 3:16 You must accept the Lord Jesus as your Savior.
{C} Galatians 5:22-23 You must allow the Holy Spirit to produce
the fruits of the Holy Spirit in your life, which are:
{a} love
{b} joy
{c} peace
{d} patience
{e} kindness
{f} goodness
{g} faithfulness
{h} gentleness
{i} self-control
This changes the "root" of the problem.
This changes the heart.
Which then changes the mind.
So that men now desire to do what is right without being "forced to do right"
by the political process , , ,Laws , , Police with guns , , Jail Time , ,etc

Anything not the above will fail to permanently solve the "political" problem
You can “throw money” at it.
You can “throw laws” at it.
You will fail.
If you DO solve the problem in one area, the same ROOT problem will
pop-up in another area. We saw this principle being played out in the
streets of America as rioting, looting, burning cars, burning buildings,
physical assaults, and murdering people was occurring right in front of
Law Enforcement Officers and elected politicians, who, at the time, did
not prevent it from happening. All this has a "root problem" that has
been a reality for decades, and if this present social chaos is "solved"
by politics, the "root problem" will re-appear, in another form, somewhere
else in the "garden" of America. Its merely a question of "when" and "where"
and "how bad" it will be, the next time it pops-up.

"If my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray
and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven,
and I will forgive their sin and will heal their land.___2 Chronicles 7:14


``

I would say that it is possible, though rare and fleeting. Two civilizations deferred authority to God: patriarchal Israel and colonial America. We might even include the Garden of Eden. In all three, God created law and order, peace and harmony. He forged form and fullness out of an inchoate wilderness. Not only did He endow man with a capacity to enter into covenant with Him, but He also equipped him with a capacity to bring tranquility and discipline into being when He gave him the authority to subdue all that he could survey.

All other civilizations proclaiming God, including post-constitutional America, have done so not without political interference, and so of course they secularize.

The one exception is the kingdom of God, which is the gospel, which no state, let alone any tribe or clan, ever proclaims, but which leaves its imprint nonetheless. How the kingdom remains with us truly is miraculous, for in the minds of Christians around the world, it's elusive. Maybe if the church were to reverse this trend, governments would begin to shrink again.

"I would say that it is possible, though rare and fleeting. Two civilizations deferred authority to God: patriarchal Israel and colonial America. We might even include the Garden of Eden. In all three, God created law and order, peace and harmony. He forged form and fullness out of an inchoate wilderness. Not only did He endow man with a capacity to enter into covenant with Him, but He also equipped him with a capacity to bring tranquility and discipline into being when He gave him the authority to subdue all that he could survey.

All other civilizations proclaiming God, including post-constitutional America, have done so not without political interference, and so of course they secularize.

The one exception is the kingdom of God, which is the gospel, which no state, let alone any tribe or clan, ever proclaims, but which leaves its imprint nonetheless. How the kingdom remains with us truly is miraculous, for in the minds of Christians around the world, it's elusive. Maybe if the church were to reverse this trend, governments would begin to shrink again."___Norwegen

Norwegen.
Thank you for those interesting, helpful, and informative comments.
Much appreciated.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

The thread title is incorrect. Or, if you prefer, a matter of opinion. It is certainly not fact.

I read a small part of that nonsensical rant. There were no facts, only opinions.

You say this is not a political discussion but your own OP is political. Moreover, your political beliefs are the opposite of "christianity".

So, as usual, my own opinion and belief is that you're more than welcome to worship whichever of the 4000 or so gods and the countless religions. You're also more than welcome to vote against the teachings of Jesus

You are NOT welcome to shove it down the throats of others.

" You are NOT welcome to shove it down the throats of others. "___Luddly

Posting an opinion piece is not shoving anything down anyone's throat?
Do you consider what you write to be shoving what you write down other's people's throats?
Reading a post is 100% voluntary.
So if no one is forcing you to read a post, then its not being shoved down any throats.


``

From your post above -
"My entire family are Christians. We are all strong Conservatives.
We are all Republicans. We have always voted for the Republican Party.
We always will do that."___JAG

Perhaps it does not apply to you or to your family but its usually RW christians who incessantly demand to force prayer into our schools and even deeper into our government.

Generally, RW christians do not follow the teachings of Jesus. Indeed, not even close.

 

[ding]

God created law and order, peace and harmony.

Then who created entropy?

God. It isn't possible to have a material life without a material death.

Maimonides explains:

"...genesis can only take place through destruction, and without the destruction of the individual members of the species the species themselves would not exist permanently. Thus the true kindness, and beneficence, and goodness of God is clear. He who thinks that he can have flesh and bones without being subject to any external influence, or any of the accidents of matter, unconsciously wishes to reconcile two opposites, viz., to be at the same time subject and not subject to change..."

 

[ding]

Perhaps it does not apply to you or to your family but its usually RW christians who incessantly demand to force prayer into our schools and even deeper into our government.

It seems to me that secular humanists are the ones trying to interject their "religion" into society.

Socialism intentionally denies examination because it is irrational. There is no formal defined dogma of socialism. Instead there is only a vague, rosy notion of something good, noble and just: the advent of these things will bring instant euphoria and a social order beyond reproach. Socialism seeks equality through uniformity and communal ownership Socialism has an extraordinary ability to incite and inflame its adherents and inspire social movements. Socialists dismiss their defeats and ignore their incongruities. They desire big government and use big government to implement their morally relativistic social policies. Socialism is a religion. The religious nature of socialism explains their hostility towards traditional religions which is that of one rival religion over another. Their dogma is based on materialism, primitive instincts, atheism and the deification of man. They see no distinction between good and evil, no morality or any other kind of value, save pleasure. They practice moral relativity, indiscriminate indiscriminateness, multiculturalism, cultural Marxism and normalization of deviance. They worship science but are the first to reject it when it suits their purposes. They can be identified by an external locus of control. Their religious doctrine is abolition of private property, abolition of family, abolition of religion and equality via uniformity and communal ownership. They practice critical theory which is the Cultural Marxist theory to criticize what they do not believe to arrive at what they do believe without ever having to examine what they believe. They confuse critical theory for critical thinking. Critical thinking is the practice of challenging what one does believe to test its validity. Something they never do.

 

[Grumblenuts]

God created law and order, peace and harmony.

Then who created entropy?

God. It isn't possible to have a material life without a material death.

Maimonides explains:

"...genesis can only take place through destruction, and without the destruction of the individual members of the species the species themselves would not exist permanently. Thus the true kindness, and beneficence, and goodness of God is clear. He who thinks that he can have flesh and bones without being subject to any external influence, or any of the accidents of matter, unconsciously wishes to reconcile two opposites, viz., to be at the same time subject and not subject to change..."

Killing all with "His" kindness. Tough love. Lol. But wait, there's so much more in store for the True Believer who manages to slog through this murderous test period of "material life" without behaving equally 'kind, good, and beneficent' toward others.. Goddammit, you'll do as I say, not as I do! Then one gets to have their cake and eat it too! To consciously "be at the same time subject and not subject to change".. {cue the violins}..

 

[ding]

God created law and order, peace and harmony.

Then who created entropy?

God. It isn't possible to have a material life without a material death.

Maimonides explains:

"...genesis can only take place through destruction, and without the destruction of the individual members of the species the species themselves would not exist permanently. Thus the true kindness, and beneficence, and goodness of God is clear. He who thinks that he can have flesh and bones without being subject to any external influence, or any of the accidents of matter, unconsciously wishes to reconcile two opposites, viz., to be at the same time subject and not subject to change..."

Killing all with "His" kindness. Tough love. Lol. But wait, there's so much more in store for the True Believer who manages to slog through this murderous test period of "material life" without behaving equally 'kind, good, and beneficent' toward others.. Goddammit, you'll do as I say, not as I do! Then one gets to have their cake and eat it too! To consciously "be at the same time subject and not subject to change".. {cue the violins}..

Maimonides responds...

[It must be admitted as a fact that it cannot be said of God that He directly creates evil, or He has the direct intention to produce evil; this is impossible His works are all perfectly good. He only produces existence, and all existence is good. God is perfect goodness, and that all that comes from Him is absolutely good. Consequently the true work of God is all good, since it is existence. ALL the great evils which men cause to each other because of certain intentions, desires, opinions, or religious principles, are likewise due to non-existence, because they originate in ignorance, which is absence of wisdom. The numerous evils to which individual persons are exposed are due to the defects existing in the persons themselves. We suffer from the evils which we, by our own free will, inflict on ourselves and ascribe them to God, who is far from being connected with them. Man himself is the author of this class of evils. The error of the ignorant goes so far as to say that God's power is insufficient, because He has given to this Universe the properties which they imagine cause these great evils.] Maimonides, "Guide for the Perplexed"

 

[Grumblenuts]

No thanks. I continue being content to view things empirically. Like Ron Reagan, "Not afraid of burning in Hell."

 

[ding]

No thanks. I continue being content to view things empirically. Like Ron Reagan, "Not afraid of burning in Hell."

Your call. Everything is choice. Choose wisely.

 

[JAG]

[. . . ]

"Perhaps it does not apply to you or to your family but its usually RW christians
who incessantly demand to force prayer into our schools and even deeper into
our government."Luddly

Luddly,

Thanks for your comments.

I'm on record here as NOT calling for the Christian moral code to be codified
and enforced by the courts with police with guns.

My view is Christianity does not advance in the world through the courts,
but rather through the supernatural power of the Holy Spirit working
through the gospel.
Step 1 --- John 3:3
Step 2 --- John 3:16
Step 3 --- Galatians 5:22-23
That's it.
No force.
No courts.
No police.
No guns

_______

I'm not a pacifists.
World War 2 was a just war.

JAG




``

 

[Luddly Neddite]

[. . . ]

"Perhaps it does not apply to you or to your family but its usually RW christians
who incessantly demand to force prayer into our schools and even deeper into
our government."Luddly

Luddly,

Thanks for your comments.

I'm on record here as NOT calling for the Christian moral code to be codified
and enforced by the courts with police with guns.

My view is Christianity does not advance in the world through the courts,
but rather through the supernatural power of the Holy Spirit working
through the gospel.
Step 1 --- John 3:3
Step 2 --- John 3:16
Step 3 --- Galatians 5:22-23
That's it.
No force.
No courts.
No police.
No guns

_______

I'm not a pacifists.
World War 2 was a just war.

JAG




``

Whoa there.

Picture it.

13yo, its easter time and I'm down in a dank cold basement, sitting on metal folding chairs, in a circle with other kids. Its Sunday school, taught by middle aged ladies in blue flowery dresses and blue hats with that little wisp of blue netting that doesn't really come down over the face so what the hell is it there for. This would have been mid-50s and that's what the wacko church ladies wore with their sensible shoes and girdles.

We've done the assignment - color and cut out characters that the teacher would stick to a felt covered sandwich board and then we would supposedly "study" the corresponding verse. If you're old enough, you can still smell mimeograph ink.

I always thought it was all hooey but probably could not have said why until we got to " ... god gave his only begotten son ... "

But he didn't, says I. And isn't Jesus god? And god is Jesus?

Not good. I got a whack on the back of my hands with a ruler. Made of wood with that vicious sharp metal edge. I still have some of a scar left. And, I was sent home with some sort of Write It Five Hundred Times thing.

My dad used to sit out on our back deck and play his harmonica. Clair de Lune. Hearing that still sends me in to fits of remembering.

So, I remember being out on the deck with him and saying that 1) what kind of dad arranges for his kid to be tortured and killed? and 2) if Jesus magically came back after rotting in that cave for three days then god didn't actually "give" him at all.

That's the first time I can remember that I realized it was all a scam. Lies. And its all built on a horrifying myth of infanticide.

Later, I realized the rest of that story is even worse - dad rapes an unmarried virgin, dumps her when she gets pregnant, nice itinerant carpenter raises the kid and 30 some years later, dead beat dad (god who is also Jesus) shows up, tortures the kid (Jesus who is also god) and pretends to kill him. All so we'll give money to the most wealthy entity on the planet while children starve.

Pfft.

 

[LittleNipper]

This Opening Post is NOT to discuss any political issue.
This Opening Post is ONLY to re-affirm the truth of:
"If my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray
and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven,
and I will forgive their sin and will heal their land.___2 Chronicles 7:14

_____________

I wrote this piece mainly for Christians, but non-Christians might find it
interesting.

Introductory Remarks:
My entire family are Christians. We are all strong Conservatives.
We are all Republicans. We have always voted for the Republican Party.
We always will do that. We support Law and Order.
Laws are necessary. Laws do reduce crime.
Politics is necessary. Politics is merely what we do {policies , , , political policies}
Nations do what they do, because they believe what they believe.
There is no possible way to escape "the political process."
Politics is here to stay until the end of time.

Politics can temporarily solve some human problems.

But politics can never solve the root problem, which is spiritual.

A diseased ROOT will always produce "bad policies" fruit.

Fix one political problem, and another will appear somewhere else.

Diseased root. You must cure the "bad root" problem. to have good fruit.

So? So there are better solutions to human problems than political
solutions. These better solutions are spiritual solutions,

Nonetheless , , ,
Many Christians seek political solutions to what they will admit are
spiritual problems.

They seek to "elect the right kind of men" to political office with the goal of
fixing America's many moral, economic, and political problems.

Read this next paragraph very carefully , , ,
They want the Christian moral code to become a reality through the political
process. My view is this is utterly impossible to achieve. Here is my view of
that in a nutshell: There is not a shred of Biblical evidence that teaches the
way to fix a nation’s spiritual problems, is to elect “the right kinds of politicians"
to public office. That is pure fantasy. The notion that: If we can "just somehow
elect the right politicians", then we can legislate the Christian moral code into
law” is pure fiction. This is never going to materialize and become a reality.

Here are some of my reasons why:

My view is that permanent change can not come through political laws and
through the “political process." It is impossible to solve human problems apart
from the supernatural power of God Almighty, and His Son the Lord Jesus,
and the power of the Holy Spirit.

{1} You must first change hearts before you can change minds.
{2} All human moral problems are at root spiritual problems.
{3} Moral problems are what causes political and economic problems.
{4} There are no lasting secular political solutions for spiritual problems.
{5} But there are lasting spiritual solutions to spiritual problems.
{6} Those solutions must start with this:
{A} John 3:3 You must be born again.
{B} John 3:16 You must accept the Lord Jesus as your Savior.
{C} Galatians 5:22-23 You must allow the Holy Spirit to produce
the fruits of the Holy Spirit in your life, which are:
{a} love
{b} joy
{c} peace
{d} patience
{e} kindness
{f} goodness
{g} faithfulness
{h} gentleness
{i} self-control
This changes the "root" of the problem.
This changes the heart.
Which then changes the mind.
So that men now desire to do what is right without being "forced to do right"
by the political process , , ,Laws , , Police with guns , , Jail Time , ,etc

Anything not the above will fail to permanently solve the "political" problem
You can “throw money” at it.
You can “throw laws” at it.
You will fail.
If you DO solve the problem in one area, the same ROOT problem will
pop-up in another area. We saw this principle being played out in the
streets of America as rioting, looting, burning cars, burning buildings,
physical assaults, and murdering people was occurring right in front of
Law Enforcement Officers and elected politicians, who, at the time, did
not prevent it from happening. All this has a "root problem" that has
been a reality for decades, and if this present social chaos is "solved"
by politics, the "root problem" will re-appear, in another form, somewhere
else in the "garden" of America. Its merely a question of "when" and "where"
and "how bad" it will be, the next time it pops-up.

"If my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray
and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven,
and I will forgive their sin and will heal their land.___2 Chronicles 7:14


``

At last count, there are an estimated 4,200 established religions. Of those religions, many live good moral lives in spiritual peace, without your Jesus. Two that can be immediately brought to mind are Buddhism and Jainism. Very peaceful and very moral. No Jesus, needed or wanted. The same can be said of many of those other 4,198 religions. No doubt they are experiencing "spiritual peace" in their own religion.
There are also ample Atheists that are at peace, internally, with themselves in their belief that no deities exist and lead decent lives.

From Buddhist to Christian:

A former monk becomes a Pastor in Thailand

Pastor Kit, a now former Buddhist monk, recounts his story about how he chose to follow Christ.--------------------------------------------------------------...

www.youtube.com

 

[Votto]

Perhaps you can explain why people who claim to be Christians were willing to elect the antithisis to Christianity in exchange for their choice of judges. Obviously that was an effort to force what you consider to be Christian values on the country through the courts.

It was the exact OPPOSITE of that.
I do not want to force what I believe on anybody, not ever.

So you oppose Christians supporting the very unChristian like Trump just to gain political power through the courts? That is a yes/no question.

From a Christian perspective, abortion is genocide

So if you were a Christian in Nazi Germany, who would you vote for? Would you vote for the National Socialists and all of their swell social programs that gave away free everything while systematically murdering Jews, or the one lone voice in opposition to the genocide who tweets stupid stuff and chases tail?

 

[BULLDOG]

Perhaps you can explain why people who claim to be Christians were willing to elect the antithisis to Christianity in exchange for their choice of judges. Obviously that was an effort to force what you consider to be Christian values on the country through the courts.

It was the exact OPPOSITE of that.
I do not want to force what I believe on anybody, not ever.

So you oppose Christians supporting the very unChristian like Trump just to gain political power through the courts? That is a yes/no question.

From a Christian perspective, abortion is genocide

So if you were a Christian in Nazi Germany, who would you vote for? Would you vote for the National Socialists and all of their swell social programs that gave away free everything while systematically murdering Jews, or the one lone voice in opposition to the genocide who tweets stupid stuff and chases tail?

People who claim to be Christians are definately against abortion, yet neither the Old Testament nor the New mentions abortion—not one word.

It’s not that the Old Testament is reticent about women’s bodies, either. Menstruation gets a lot of attention. So do child- birth, infertility, sexual desire, prostitution (death penalty), infidelity (more death penalty), and rape (if the woman is within earshot of others and doesn’t cry out . . . death penalty). How can it be that the authors (or Author) set down what should happen to a woman who seeks to help her husband in a fight by grabbing the other man’s testicles (her hand should be cut off) but did not feel abortion deserved so much as a word? Given the penalties for nonmarital sex and being a rape victim, it’s hard to believe that women never needed desperately to end a pregnancy, and that there was no folk knowledge of how to do so, as there was in other ancient cultures. Midwives would have known how to induce a miscarriage.

A passage often cited by abortion opponents is Exodus 21:22–23:
If people are fighting and hit a pregnant woman and she gives birth prematurely but there is no serious injury, the offender must be fined whatever the woman’s husband demands and the court allows. But if there is serious injury, you are to take life for life . . .

Contemporary abortion opponents interpret this passage as distinguishing between causing a premature birth (fine) versus causing a miscarriage (death penalty), which is indeed what most modern translations suggest. Unfortunately for abortion opponents, at least one thousand years of rabbinical scholarship say the fine is for causing a miscarriage and the death penalty is for causing the death of the pregnant woman. If anti-abortion exegetes are only now finding in this rather obscure passage evidence for an absolute biblical ban on abortion, you have to wonder why no one read it that way before. The Talmud permits abortion under certain circumstances, in fact requires it if the woman’s life is at stake.

The New Testament was a second chance for God to make himself clear about abortion. Jesus had some strong views of marriage and sex—he considered the Jewish divorce laws too lenient, disapproved of stoning adulteresses, and did not shrink from healing a woman who had “an issue” (vaginal bleeding of some sort) that had lasted twelve years and would have made her an outcast among Jews. But he said nothing about abortion. Neither did Saint Paul, or the other New Testament authors, or any of the later authors whose words were interpolated into the original texts.