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Lately, the rhetoric has been about "listening to the people" and how a majority of "the people" are being ignored. The self-appointed spokesmen for "the people" appear to be the Tea Party Movement and, as part of a new chapter in rightwing talking points - the GoP.
In poll after poll, a consistently high majority is in favor of some form of public option in health care. Yet , the Republicans (through legislative digging in of heels) and the Tea Partiers (through desruptive and misleading rhetoric) have consistently denied "the people" any chance of this option being realized.
Why is the will of "the people" being ignored? Is it only the will of a special interest minority you listen to?
Lately, the rhetoric has been about "listening to the people" and how a majority of "the people" are being ignored. The self-appointed spokesmen for "the people" appear to be the Tea Party Movement and, as part of a new chapter in rightwing talking points - the GoP.
In poll after poll, a consistently high majority is in favor of some form of public option in health care. Yet , the Republicans (through legislative digging in of heels) and the Tea Partiers (through desruptive and misleading rhetoric) have consistently denied "the people" any chance of this option being realized.
Why is the will of "the people" being ignored? Is it only the will of a special interest minority you listen to?
No there isn't - I challenge you to prove your assertion. Most people do not want a "public option". There is a small lunatic fringe of far left wackjobs that want a government take over of heatlhcare via the "public option" or single payer program. The overwhelming majority of people prefer a sane and measured approach. Starting with tort reform, portability of benefits, competition across state lines, and insurance reform. We can do this, and we don't need to spend trillions of dollars and create a new entitlement program.
Numerous polls have been posted in this thread that prove you wrong. Every poll taken, with the exception of one Rassmussen poll from last June, shows that. So unless you can prove your assertion, you fail.
Lately, the rhetoric has been about "listening to the people" and how a majority of "the people" are being ignored. The self-appointed spokesmen for "the people" appear to be the Tea Party Movement and, as part of a new chapter in rightwing talking points - the GoP.
In poll after poll, a consistently high majority is in favor of some form of public option in health care. Yet , the Republicans (through legislative digging in of heels) and the Tea Partiers (through desruptive and misleading rhetoric) have consistently denied "the people" any chance of this option being realized.
Why is the will of "the people" being ignored? Is it only the will of a special interest minority you listen to?
No there isn't - I challenge you to prove your assertion.
Most people do not want a "public option".
There is a small lunatic fringe of far left wackjobs that want a government take over of heatlhcare via the "public option" or single payer program.
The overwhelming majority of people prefer a sane and measured approach.
Starting with tort reform, portability of benefits, competition across state lines, and insurance reform. We can do this, and we don't need to spend trillions of dollars and create a new entitlement program.
Granted I live in a very small town, but I do not know anyone who wants a public option plan.
The people I talk to in the bar I work at sometimes want tort reform, controls to stop insurance companies from their denying coverage while raising rates games and to stop insurance companies from raping us with preexisting conditions.
I am with Zander, I also challenge you to prove that 'most people' want a public option and that isn't just a far left/socialist(read progressive) desire.
Lately, the rhetoric has been about "listening to the people" and how a majority of "the people" are being ignored. The self-appointed spokesmen for "the people" appear to be the Tea Party Movement and, as part of a new chapter in rightwing talking points - the GoP.
In poll after poll, a consistently high majority is in favor of some form of public option in health care. Yet , the Republicans (through legislative digging in of heels) and the Tea Partiers (through desruptive and misleading rhetoric) have consistently denied "the people" any chance of this option being realized.
Why is the will of "the people" being ignored? Is it only the will of a special interest minority you listen to?
Scott Brown ran on the slogan "I will stop Obamacare". He won with 52% of the vote in a liberal state. That is a real poll. I trust it far more than an "opinion" poll that skews questions to garner the desired outcome. Sorry, that's just the realist in me.Lately, the rhetoric has been about "listening to the people" and how a majority of "the people" are being ignored. The self-appointed spokesmen for "the people" appear to be the Tea Party Movement and, as part of a new chapter in rightwing talking points - the GoP.
In poll after poll, a consistently high majority is in favor of some form of public option in health care. Yet , the Republicans (through legislative digging in of heels) and the Tea Partiers (through desruptive and misleading rhetoric) have consistently denied "the people" any chance of this option being realized.
Why is the will of "the people" being ignored? Is it only the will of a special interest minority you listen to?
No there isn't - I challenge you to prove your assertion.
I have. I have provided links to a number of polls, from different sources, indicating that the majority of people favor a public option. It is now up to others to provide evidence to disprove it. Or perhaps the people don't know what the hell they want, polls should be ignored and they should just let politicians listening to a vocal minority tell them what they really want.
According to.....? (The Book of Zander?)
Over 50% is not a "small lunatic fringe".....
In addition we aren't talking about "government take over of healthcare" nor are we talking about a single payer program. We're talking about offering a choice of a public option or private plans - a choice heavily favored by the majority of the people. Stop trying to redefine the argument.
The overwhelming majority of people prefer a sane and measured approach.
Again...according to....?
Starting with tort reform, portability of benefits, competition across state lines, and insurance reform. We can do this, and we don't need to spend trillions of dollars and create a new entitlement program.
All of those are part of a complete package of reform that also includes a public option.
So...why is it that those who profess concern for the voice of "the people" become deaf and dumb when what "the people" want doesn't mesh with their political goals?
That applies to all sides...but...not all sides are currently calling themselves spokesmen for the people in this issue.
This seems like a nice spot to step in and say that the Republicans and Tea Parties are completely powerless in this health care debate. The Democrats have basically said that they'll pass this without republican support.
So, who exactly were the ones to take the public option out?
So far you've won nada.... Your party has wasted a year with nothing to show for it. It was entirely your own fault. Now you've lost your filibuster proof majority and Obama has spend his political capital on losing causes. Yeah, you're winning.....Lately, the rhetoric has been about "listening to the people" and how a majority of "the people" are being ignored. The self-appointed spokesmen for "the people" appear to be the Tea Party Movement and, as part of a new chapter in rightwing talking points - the GoP.
In poll after poll, a consistently high majority is in favor of some form of public option in health care. Yet , the Republicans (through legislative digging in of heels) and the Tea Partiers (through desruptive and misleading rhetoric) have consistently denied "the people" any chance of this option being realized.
Why is the will of "the people" being ignored? Is it only the will of a special interest minority you listen to?
Here is the deal...the righty's say the people dont want this bill, the left are saying we do want it...
We won the election. Obama is president. In other words, we lefty's are going to win this little battle. Righty's lost.
Maybe some dumb Democrats who need to be removed from government said they'd move on without Republican support, but many Democrats bailing on that idea already. Some actually have a clue, and realize the people have spoken, and it's time to shift gears and listen. Same with Republicans..
You may well be right, Zander, but I am curious to see if Brown will withstand Democratic seducation, like others in my GOP. We must make common with center if we are to survive as a party. The pathway of the wacko wingnut reactionaries is the path to extinction.
Brown used that whacko sentiment as a portion to garner a majority. If you think he will serve the whackos, you truly are whack.
The public option will never pass. Keep insisting on it, and nothing will ever happen.Maybe some dumb Democrats who need to be removed from government said they'd move on without Republican support, but many Democrats bailing on that idea already. Some actually have a clue, and realize the people have spoken, and it's time to shift gears and listen. Same with Republicans..
Ahhh - you finally address the topic. The people have spoken. And they have said they want a public option. Yet...no one seems to be listen. Especially not those who claim to be their spokespeople.
We won the election. Obama is president. In other words, we lefty's are going to win this little battle. Righty's lost. nuclear baby. lol
I am a registered independent & a tea partier.
You will have to explain why MASS. elected a Republican yesterday with just 12% of the populace being registered Republicans. What happened was that democrats were defecting & running from "this" health care reform bill--along with independents who have been running from this administration & congress for months.
Americans do want health care INSURANCE reform--they just don't want the bills coming out of the congress & senate. We don't want back room special deals & political pay-off's--bribery & extortion involved in any bills. If it was that good politicians shouldn't need to have their vote bought.
To add--democrat political operatives & policians really need to stop insulting the tea party movement. There is one thing about Americans that is inherent. When they see a political party attacking hard working--tax paying citizens--Americans WILL ALWAYS take the citizens side, & will push back hard. But I think democrat politicians are too ignorant to understand that.
I am a registered independent & a tea partier.
You will have to explain why MASS. elected a Republican yesterday with just 12% of the populace being registered Republicans. What happened was that democrats were defecting & running from "this" health care reform bill--along with independents who have been running from this administration & congress for months.
Love the colors by the way....so here goes. I'll try to be nice too.
The fact that MA elected a Republican has nothing - nothing whatsoever - to do with the fact that the majority of the people want a public option.
Americans do want health care INSURANCE reform--they just don't want the bills coming out of the congress & senate. We don't want back room special deals & political pay-off's--bribery & extortion involved in any bills. If it was that good politicians shouldn't need to have their vote bought.
Again...this has nothing to do with the fact that the majority of Americans have indicated in poll after poll that they want a public option.
To add--democrat political operatives & policians really need to stop insulting the tea party movement. There is one thing about Americans that is inherent. When they see a political party attacking hard working--tax paying citizens--Americans WILL ALWAYS take the citizens side, & will push back hard. But I think democrat politicians are too ignorant to understand that.
Again...this has nothing to do with the fact that the majority of Americans have indicated in poll after poll that they want a public option.
Wow. That was so easy to answer.
Maybe - as a member of the Tea Party Party - you can answer the question I've asked: since the majority of people favor some form of public option in any healthcare bill, why aren't you - a member of a movement that claims to speak for a majority - clamoring for it?
You may well be right, Zander, but I am curious to see if Brown will withstand Democratic seducation, like others in my GOP. We must make common with center if we are to survive as a party. The pathway of the wacko wingnut reactionaries is the path to extinction.
Brown used that whacko sentiment as a portion to garner a majority. If you think he will serve the whackos, you truly are whack.
Sorry FakeJake, I don't know what seducation means. I find your over reliance on the word "whacko" and it's variants to describe the majority of the country very odd.
I haven't expressed any belief on them. In fact, I specifically seperate them out from the Republicans. They are, however, a predominantly rightwing group and that is based on the stances they take, not "talking points".
Of course you have. And at the bottom of this post made by you, you claim they are in the GOP camp. But they are a hemogenous group of people from all parties and all walks of life. The reason you associate them with the GOP at all is because some people in the GOP and quite a few conservatives on this forum speak in the same terms they do. That government is intended to be limited. That government by Constitution is limited in power. That government is to be reigned in and given only that level of power needed to keep us safe.
Well duh....I'm trying to MAKE a point aren't I? So naturally I will choose evidence to prove my point. That's the whole point of a debate, yes?
For the record, my methedology (such as it was) consisted of a google search with the just the words "public option" and "poll" and the picked the first handful of polls that showed any sort of legitimacy (ie not a My Quiz facebook poll). Pew, I might add - is a pretty respected non-partisan polling source and I specifically searched for Pew data when precisely for that reason. If you are disatisfied with the polls I chose- feel free to add more data that counters them. Thus far the only polling source has been presented that contradicts the multiple sources I submitted is Rassmussen.
Honest individuals who wish to make a point do so with ALL available information. Not just the information that they agree with.
They also don't just shrug off another persons evidence as "I don't put much credence in GOP polls".
Unless of course you are equally willing to be dismissed. After all, why should we put any credence in Democrat polls when it has been shown that polls favoring Democrats are worded so that they do.
For the record, that google search of "Public Option" + Poll returns 1,440,000 hits. Did you go though and read each one?
If I wanted to debate myself, I wouldn't be on this messageboard, I'd be in a padded cell somewhere.....
Did you discard those which did not agree with what you want to believe? Did you only chose those what mirrored your own world belief?
You see the problem I have with your polls or for that matter with any poll. As for PEW....well, they are notably slanted Democrat. I don't trust the alleged objective opinion of someone from the left. Those people seem to think that CNN, NBC, CBS UPI, AP and the New York Times are objective reporting agencies.
So which is it? Do you want health care because it is a progressive plan, regardless of what the people wantnt or is it a fucking crisis?
