The Will of the People: question for Republicans and Tea Partiers

[Coyote]

Lately, the rhetoric has been about "listening to the people" and how a majority of "the people" are being ignored. The self-appointed spokesmen for "the people" appear to be the Tea Party Movement and, as part of a new chapter in rightwing talking points - the GoP.

In poll after poll, a consistently high majority is in favor of some form of public option in health care. Yet , the Republicans (through legislative digging in of heels) and the Tea Partiers (through desruptive and misleading rhetoric) have consistently denied "the people" any chance of this option being realized.


Why is the will of "the people" being ignored? Is it only the will of a special interest minority you listen to?

 

[MIPS]

Lately, the rhetoric has been about "listening to the people" and how a majority of "the people" are being ignored. The self-appointed spokesmen for "the people" appear to be the Tea Party Movement and, as part of a new chapter in rightwing talking points - the GoP.

In poll after poll, a consistently high majority is in favor of some form of public option in health care. Yet , the Republicans (through legislative digging in of heels) and the Tea Partiers (through desruptive and misleading rhetoric) have consistently denied "the people" any chance of this option being realized.


Why is the will of "the people" being ignored? Is it only the will of a special interest minority you listen to?

Here's one poll for you regarding the "public option"

Toplines - Health Care - July 14-15, 2009 - Rasmussen Reports

See Question #2

And if it was so damn popular why was it the first thing jettisoned by the Senate and the President? Most Americans realize that the last thing we need is another competition destroying, bottomless government money pit like Medicare has become.

Medicare long term unfunded liabilities currently stand at nearly $73.3 TRILLION who would be foolish enough to think that we can afford to duplicate this insanity?

U.S. National Debt Clock : Real Time

 

[California Girl]

Lately, the rhetoric has been about "listening to the people" and how a majority of "the people" are being ignored. The self-appointed spokesmen for "the people" appear to be the Tea Party Movement and, as part of a new chapter in rightwing talking points - the GoP.

In poll after poll, a consistently high majority is in favor of some form of public option in health care. Yet , the Republicans (through legislative digging in of heels) and the Tea Partiers (through desruptive and misleading rhetoric) have consistently denied "the people" any chance of this option being realized.


Why is the will of "the people" being ignored? Is it only the will of a special interest minority you listen to?

If someone can show me the part of the US Constitution that grants power to congress to legislate a public option for healthcare, fine. But it ain't in there.

 

[Coyote]

Lately, the rhetoric has been about "listening to the people" and how a majority of "the people" are being ignored. The self-appointed spokesmen for "the people" appear to be the Tea Party Movement and, as part of a new chapter in rightwing talking points - the GoP.

In poll after poll, a consistently high majority is in favor of some form of public option in health care. Yet , the Republicans (through legislative digging in of heels) and the Tea Partiers (through desruptive and misleading rhetoric) have consistently denied "the people" any chance of this option being realized.


Why is the will of "the people" being ignored? Is it only the will of a special interest minority you listen to?

Here's one poll for you regarding the "public option"

Toplines - Health Care - July 14-15, 2009 - Rasmussen Reports

See Question #2

And if it was so damn popular why was it the first thing jettisoned by the Senate and the President? Most Americans realize that the last thing we need is another competition destroying, bottomless government money pit like Medicare has become.

Yet, look at these polls:

This was a GoP poll (June 2009)

Thirty-one percent of people said the government should provide “coverage for all” and 35 percent said “coverage for those who can’t afford it.” Only 29 percent said health care coverage should be entirely left to individuals. Among Republicans, 46 percent chose one of the first two options to 51 percent who chose the laissez-faire option.

New Poll: 77 Percent Support "Choice" Of Public Option
New Poll: Public Option Up ? GOP Down - George's Bottom Line
New Poll: 77 Percent Support "Choice" Of Public Option
Poll: Public Option Way More Popular Than Senate Health Care Propsal | The Plum Line

Rasmussan seems out of step.

Medicare long term unfunded liabilities currently stand at nearly $73.3 TRILLION who would be foolish enough to think that we can afford to duplicate this insanity?

U.S. National Debt Clock : Real Time

Who says it has to be set up like Medicare?

Either way though - we're talking about what people want and who is or is not listening to them.

 

[MIPS]

Lately, the rhetoric has been about "listening to the people" and how a majority of "the people" are being ignored. The self-appointed spokesmen for "the people" appear to be the Tea Party Movement and, as part of a new chapter in rightwing talking points - the GoP.

In poll after poll, a consistently high majority is in favor of some form of public option in health care. Yet , the Republicans (through legislative digging in of heels) and the Tea Partiers (through desruptive and misleading rhetoric) have consistently denied "the people" any chance of this option being realized.


Why is the will of "the people" being ignored? Is it only the will of a special interest minority you listen to?

Here's one poll for you regarding the "public option"

Toplines - Health Care - July 14-15, 2009 - Rasmussen Reports

See Question #2

And if it was so damn popular why was it the first thing jettisoned by the Senate and the President? Most Americans realize that the last thing we need is another competition destroying, bottomless government money pit like Medicare has become.

Yet, look at these polls:

This was a GoP poll (June 2009)

Thirty-one percent of people said the government should provide “coverage for all” and 35 percent said “coverage for those who can’t afford it.” Only 29 percent said health care coverage should be entirely left to individuals. Among Republicans, 46 percent chose one of the first two options to 51 percent who chose the laissez-faire option.

Well since the government already provides "coverage for those who can't afford it" (via Medicaid) that just leaves the 35% of lackwits that are oblivious to the governments track record.

New Poll: 77 Percent Support "Choice" Of Public Option

From the article in that link
Earlier in the week, after pollsters for NBC dropped the word "choice" from their question on a public option, they found that only 43 percent of the public were in favor of "creating a public health care plan

SurveyUSA's poll, which was commissioned by the progressive group MoveOn.org, a proponent of the public plan, gives credence to those critiques. While arguments about what type of language best describe the public option persist --"choice" is considered a trigger word that everyone naturally supports -- it seems clear that the framing of the provision goes a long way toward determining its popularity.

Bing....

New Poll: Public Option Up ? GOP Down - George's Bottom Line

Doesn't even show what question(s) were asked to generate these numbers (the one I linked DOES).

Bang ....

New Poll: 77 Percent Support "Choice" Of Public Option

Same as your first link, you linked it twice

Bop....

Poll: Public Option Way More Popular Than Senate Health Care Propsal | The Plum Line

This one doesn't even say what poll it's sighting let alone the details of the questions asked to derive the data.

Bam ...

Rasmussan seems out of step.

Really? Go back and take another look there's NO AMBIGUITY as to the question that was asked since it's right there in the link I gave you.

Medicare long term unfunded liabilities currently stand at nearly $73.3 TRILLION who would be foolish enough to think that we can afford to duplicate this insanity?

U.S. National Debt Clock : Real Time

Who says it has to be set up like Medicare?

What makes you trust the government enough to think that it won't end up in the same boat because it certainly can't be the governments TRACK RECORD, in case it's escaped your notice it's government that has caused the majority of the problems that it's supposedly trying to address in the current health care system which is rather convenient for the political elites and the special interests don't you think?

Either way though - we're talking about what people want and who is or is not listening to them.

The people are shouting loud and clear what they want, they don't want the government is currently trying to force down there throats, whether you choose to listen to them or not is up to you but the politicians in Washington had better listen.

 

[Maple]

Lately, the rhetoric has been about "listening to the people" and how a majority of "the people" are being ignored. The self-appointed spokesmen for "the people" appear to be the Tea Party Movement and, as part of a new chapter in rightwing talking points - the GoP.

In poll after poll, a consistently high majority is in favor of some form of public option in health care. Yet , the Republicans (through legislative digging in of heels) and the Tea Partiers (through desruptive and misleading rhetoric) have consistently denied "the people" any chance of this option being realized.


Why is the will of "the people" being ignored? Is it only the will of a special interest minority you listen to?

Did you happen to see what happened yesterday in Massachusetts??? A state that is the most liberal in the nation elected a republican because he campaigned on a message of STOPPING Obama care. The people DO NOT WANT IT.

We do want health care reform but that can be done with tort reform, opening up competition between the states, promoting HSA's with pre-tax dollars, promoting high deductible inexpensive catastrophic plans, allow small business to group, legislate for pre-existing conditions and for portability. Subsidize the poor- which we already do and it's called Medicaid. There's the fix and it could probably be written up in a 20 page bill instead of a 2,000 page bill from the congress and a 2,500 page bill from the senate.

 

[Coyote]

Here's one poll for you regarding the "public option"

Toplines - Health Care - July 14-15, 2009 - Rasmussen Reports

See Question #2

And if it was so damn popular why was it the first thing jettisoned by the Senate and the President? Most Americans realize that the last thing we need is another competition destroying, bottomless government money pit like Medicare has become.

Yet, look at these polls:

This was a GoP poll (June 2009)

Well since the government already provides "coverage for those who can't afford it" (via Medicaid) that just leaves the 35% of lackwits that are oblivious to the governments track record.

Irrelevant. We're talking about listening to the people. What the people want. That particular poll shows support for a public option from a majority.

From the article in that link
Earlier in the week, after pollsters for NBC dropped the word "choice" from their question on a public option, they found that only 43 percent of the public were in favor of "creating a public health care plan

SurveyUSA's poll, which was commissioned by the progressive group MoveOn.org, a proponent of the public plan, gives credence to those critiques. While arguments about what type of language best describe the public option persist --"choice" is considered a trigger word that everyone naturally supports -- it seems clear that the framing of the provision goes a long way toward determining its popularity.

We are talking about "choice" - the word is public option - not public mandate and not one-payer system. Therefore using the word in the poll is accurate. How else would you word it to let people know that it is a choice? But, if the wording bothers you, here's a poll with a question worded similar to Rassmussen:

Q. Would you support or oppose having the government create a new health insurance plan to compete with private health insurance plans? Do you feel that way strongly or somewhat? The results still show strong support for a public option.​

Compare the question from Rassmussen:

Would it be a good idea to set up a government health insurance company to compete with private health insurance companies? Yes No Not Sure
​

Bing....

Or…Bling….

And Rasmussen is a well known right-leaning polling organization. So what?

Doesn't even show what question(s) were asked to generate these numbers (the one I linked DOES).

Bang ....

The questions are in the link I give above.

*blip*

Same as your first link, you linked it twice

Bop....

Apologies.

This one doesn't even say what poll it's sighting let alone the details of the questions asked to derive the data.

Bam ...

Yes it does….click on the link in the second sentence.

*blip*

Who says it has to be set up like Medicare?

What makes you trust the government enough to think that it won't end up in the same boat because it certainly can't be the governments TRACK RECORD, in case it's escaped your notice it's government that has caused the majority of the problems that it's supposedly trying to address in the current health care system which is rather convenient for the political elites and the special interests don't you think?

Again, what makes you think it has to be set up like Medicare? There’s a whole lot of public, private and public/private blends of health care models out there to choose from. If you want to talk about track record, don’t forget the VA system. That is government run also.

Either way though - we're talking about what people want and who is or is not listening to them.

The people are shouting loud and clear what they want, they don't want the government is currently trying to force down there throats, whether you choose to listen to them or not is up to you but the politicians in Washington had better listen.

The data doesn’t seem to support you. The people seem to be shouting that they want a public option and no one is listening. You haven’t disproven that . Your only source is a Rasmussen poll and Rasmussen is well known to lean to the right.

Here is a poll from Pew: Mixed Views of Economic Policies and Health Care Reform Persist: Section 2: Opinions of Health Care Proposals - Pew Research Center for the People & the Press

That shows an increase in support for a public option from July to Oct 2009.

 

[Coyote]

Did you happen to see what happened yesterday in Massachusetts??? A state that is the most liberal in the nation elected a republican because he campaigned on a message of STOPPING Obama care. The people DO NOT WANT IT.

Wrong - they don't want that particular bill (from which the public option has been dropped) but take note -health care wasn't the sole focus of his campaign. Ironically - the Republicans shouldn't assume it's a mandate against Obama. They still rated Obama quite favorably. It is a wake up call though.

We do want health care reform but that can be done with tort reform, opening up competition between the states, promoting HSA's with pre-tax dollars, promoting high deductible inexpensive catastrophic plans, allow small business to group, legislate for pre-existing conditions and for portability. Subsidize the poor- which we already do and it's called Medicaid. There's the fix and it could probably be written up in a 20 page bill instead of a 2,000 page bill from the congress and a 2,500 page bill from the senate.

All of those are good, but most polls consistently show majority support for a public option. Why aren't the advocates for "the people" listening to "the people"?

 

[Oldandtired]

Lately, the rhetoric has been about "listening to the people" and how a majority of "the people" are being ignored. The self-appointed spokesmen for "the people" appear to be the Tea Party Movement and, as part of a new chapter in rightwing talking points - the GoP.

In poll after poll, a consistently high majority is in favor of some form of public option in health care. Yet , the Republicans (through legislative digging in of heels) and the Tea Partiers (through desruptive and misleading rhetoric) have consistently denied "the people" any chance of this option being realized.


Why is the will of "the people" being ignored? Is it only the will of a special interest minority you listen to?

Please tell me how a minority without the option of the fillibuster was able to prevent a bill with a public option.
Please tell me how they were able to prevent any legislation?

 

[Coyote]

Lately, the rhetoric has been about "listening to the people" and how a majority of "the people" are being ignored. The self-appointed spokesmen for "the people" appear to be the Tea Party Movement and, as part of a new chapter in rightwing talking points - the GoP.

In poll after poll, a consistently high majority is in favor of some form of public option in health care. Yet , the Republicans (through legislative digging in of heels) and the Tea Partiers (through desruptive and misleading rhetoric) have consistently denied "the people" any chance of this option being realized.


Why is the will of "the people" being ignored? Is it only the will of a special interest minority you listen to?

Please tell me how a minority without the option of the fillibuster was able to prevent a bill with a public option.
Please tell me how they were able to prevent any legislation?

That is not the point of this thread.

The point is there are groups of people claiming to be listening "to the people". If that is the case why is there no public option or sustained fight for it beyond liberals? (note - not all Dems are liberals).

Why are the Tea Partiers (the loudest self-proclaimed voice of "the people") not agitating for it? The Republicans?

 

[Queen]

If someone can show me the part of the US Constitution that grants power to congress to legislate a public option for healthcare, fine. But it ain't in there.

OK, first show us where the Constitution mentioned anything about Congress legislating Medicare and Social Security.

LOL!

That's that crazy tin foil hat 10th amendment argument again?

Meanwhile the constitution says:


We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

General Welfare = health of the people

 

[Oddball]

That says promote, not provide.

It also says general welfare, not specific programs for favored constituencies.

 

[Queen]

Why are the Tea Partiers (the loudest self-proclaimed voice of "the people") not agitating for it? The Republicans?

Back when Bush decided to invade Iraq, millions of us went out and protested, not only here in the USA but all over the world.

The media didn't cover it.

But when a couple thousand wacky tea baggers with signs proclaiming Obama is a Nazi, socialist, fascist, marxist, communist, Kenyan born jungle witch doctor, the media says, oh look, the will of the people.

Right.

 

[Queen]

That says promote, not provide.

It also says general welfare, not specific programs for favored constituencies.

And the bill would promote it. People would pay for health insurance. Except the poorest among us who cannot afford it.

You righties keep arguing against something that's not even an option.

There is no free insurance program in the bill.

Why do you keep pretending there is?

 

[Darkwind]

Lately, the rhetoric has been about "listening to the people" and how a majority of "the people" are being ignored. The self-appointed spokesmen for "the people" appear to be the Tea Party Movement and, as part of a new chapter in rightwing talking points - the GoP.

In poll after poll, a consistently high majority is in favor of some form of public option in health care. Yet , the Republicans (through legislative digging in of heels) and the Tea Partiers (through desruptive and misleading rhetoric) have consistently denied "the people" any chance of this option being realized.


Why is the will of "the people" being ignored? Is it only the will of a special interest minority you listen to?

In the terms of the Tea Party people, they are basing their convictions upon known law and the Constitution. Contrarty to your belief that they are right wing talking points, you can't even acknowledge to yourself that you have to cherry pick which polls you want to believe in order for you to prove your point. The GOP have shown you as many polls saying that the American people don't want a public option as do.

And the last note on this entire premise is this. We elect people to do things for us. This gives them power. The downside is that when they don't do as we want, we remove them.

That is the only poll that matters.

 

[Oddball]

That says promote, not provide.

It also says general welfare, not specific programs for favored constituencies.

And the bill would promote it. People would pay for health insurance. Except the poorest among us who cannot afford it.

You righties keep arguing against something that's not even an option.

There is no free insurance program in the bill.

Why do you keep pretending there is?

I'm not a righty and your "interpretation" of the general welfare clause is one of the biggest myths in the big book of do-gooder authoritarian fables.

Time for you to bone up on the writings of James Madison.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Lately, the rhetoric has been about "listening to the people" and how a majority of "the people" are being ignored. The self-appointed spokesmen for "the people" appear to be the Tea Party Movement and, as part of a new chapter in rightwing talking points - the GoP.

In poll after poll, a consistently high majority is in favor of some form of public option in health care. Yet , the Republicans (through legislative digging in of heels) and the Tea Partiers (through desruptive and misleading rhetoric) have consistently denied "the people" any chance of this option being realized.


Why is the will of "the people" being ignored? Is it only the will of a special interest minority you listen to?

If someone can show me the part of the US Constitution that grants power to congress to legislate a public option for healthcare, fine. But it ain't in there.

No sand. Doesn't require the CG approval.

 

[Coyote]

Lately, the rhetoric has been about "listening to the people" and how a majority of "the people" are being ignored. The self-appointed spokesmen for "the people" appear to be the Tea Party Movement and, as part of a new chapter in rightwing talking points - the GoP.

In poll after poll, a consistently high majority is in favor of some form of public option in health care. Yet , the Republicans (through legislative digging in of heels) and the Tea Partiers (through desruptive and misleading rhetoric) have consistently denied "the people" any chance of this option being realized.


Why is the will of "the people" being ignored? Is it only the will of a special interest minority you listen to?

In the terms of the Tea Party people, they are basing their convictions upon known law and the Constitution. Contrarty to your belief that they are right wing talking points,

I haven't expressed any belief on them. In fact, I specifically seperate them out from the Republicans. They are, however, a predominantly rightwing group and that is based on the stances they take, not "talking points".

you can't even acknowledge to yourself that you have to cherry pick which polls you want to believe in order for you to prove your point.

Well duh....I'm trying to MAKE a point aren't I? So naturally I will choose evidence to prove my point. That's the whole point of a debate, yes?

For the record, my methedology (such as it was) consisted of a google search with the just the words "public option" and "poll" and the picked the first handful of polls that showed any sort of legitimacy (ie not a My Quiz facebook poll). Pew, I might add - is a pretty respected non-partisan polling source and I specifically searched for Pew data when precisely for that reason. If you are disatisfied with the polls I chose- feel free to add more data that counters them. Thus far the only polling source has been presented that contradicts the multiple sources I submitted is Rassmussen.

The GOP have shown you as many polls saying that the American people don't want a public option as do.

I don't place much credence in a GoP poll - I simply found it interesting that a recent poll of theirs came out opposite of their chosen stance. Don't you find that interesting? I don't place much credence in Demoratic Party polls either.

And the last note on this entire premise is this. We elect people to do things for us. This gives them power. The downside is that when they don't do as we want, we remove them.

That is the only poll that matters.

Good point. However, it doesn't answer the question as to why the people proclaiming themselves to be the voice of the people are not advocating for something the majority of the people feel is important - a public option.

Maybe they don't really speak for the people but rather for their own special interest groups

 

[Zander]

Lately, the rhetoric has been about "listening to the people" and how a majority of "the people" are being ignored. The self-appointed spokesmen for "the people" appear to be the Tea Party Movement and, as part of a new chapter in rightwing talking points - the GoP.

In poll after poll, a consistently high majority is in favor of some form of public option in health care. Yet , the Republicans (through legislative digging in of heels) and the Tea Partiers (through desruptive and misleading rhetoric) have consistently denied "the people" any chance of this option being realized.


Why is the will of "the people" being ignored? Is it only the will of a special interest minority you listen to?

No there isn't - I challenge you to prove your assertion. Most people do not want a "public option". There is a small lunatic fringe of far left wackjobs that want a government take over of heatlhcare via the "public option" or single payer program. The overwhelming majority of people prefer a sane and measured approach. Starting with tort reform, portability of benefits, competition across state lines, and insurance reform. We can do this, and we don't need to spend trillions of dollars and create a new entitlement program.

 

[slackjawed]

Lately, the rhetoric has been about "listening to the people" and how a majority of "the people" are being ignored. The self-appointed spokesmen for "the people" appear to be the Tea Party Movement and, as part of a new chapter in rightwing talking points - the GoP.

In poll after poll, a consistently high majority is in favor of some form of public option in health care. Yet , the Republicans (through legislative digging in of heels) and the Tea Partiers (through desruptive and misleading rhetoric) have consistently denied "the people" any chance of this option being realized.


Why is the will of "the people" being ignored? Is it only the will of a special interest minority you listen to?

No there isn't - I challenge you to prove your assertion. Most people do not want a "public option". There is a small lunatic fringe of far left wackjobs that want a government take over of heatlhcare via the "public option" or single payer program. The overwhelming majority of people prefer a sane and measured approach. Starting with tort reform, portability of benefits, competition across state lines, and insurance reform. We can do this, and we don't need to spend trillions of dollars and create a new entitlement program.

Granted I live in a very small town, but I do not know anyone who wants a public option plan.
The people I talk to in the bar I work at sometimes want tort reform, controls to stop insurance companies from their denying coverage while raising rates games and to stop insurance companies from raping us with preexisting conditions.
I am with Zander, I also challenge you to prove that 'most people' want a public option and that isn't just a far left/socialist(read progressive) desire.