The Will of the People: question for Republicans and Tea Partiers

[Some Guy]

This seems like a nice spot to step in and say that the Republicans and Tea Parties are completely powerless in this health care debate. The Democrats have basically said that they'll pass this without republican support.

So, who exactly were the ones to take the public option out?

 

[Titanic Sailor]

Brown wants healthcare reform, and was voted in because he challenged the disaster plan Democrats shoved at us. No one in favor of government run healthcare, and this entire mess will be debated anew. Who knows, we may actually see some reform now.

 

[Titanic Sailor]

Maybe some dumb Democrats who need to be removed from government said they'd move on without Republican support, but many Democrats bailing on that idea already. Some actually have a clue, and realize the people have spoken, and it's time to shift gears and listen. Same with Republicans.

And many will fight this change, especially Democrats who are so entrenched at every level of government from your town hall, to the State House, to Washington, DC.

It will be a war moving our nation forward, and now government will sacrifice just like the world has for a change.

There's actually hope now our kids will have a future, imagine that. You better find the Scott Browns in your area, that's your job now to fix our nation.

 

[oreo]

Lately, the rhetoric has been about "listening to the people" and how a majority of "the people" are being ignored. The self-appointed spokesmen for "the people" appear to be the Tea Party Movement and, as part of a new chapter in rightwing talking points - the GoP.

In poll after poll, a consistently high majority is in favor of some form of public option in health care. Yet , the Republicans (through legislative digging in of heels) and the Tea Partiers (through desruptive and misleading rhetoric) have consistently denied "the people" any chance of this option being realized.


Why is the will of "the people" being ignored? Is it only the will of a special interest minority you listen to?

I am a registered independent & a tea partier.

You will have to explain why MASS. elected a Republican yesterday with just 12% of the populace being registered Republicans. What happened was that democrats were defecting & running from "this" health care reform bill--along with independents who have been running from this administration & congress for months.

Americans do want health care INSURANCE reform--they just don't want the bills coming out of the congress & senate. We don't want back room special deals & political pay-off's--bribery & extortion involved in any bills. If it was that good politicians shouldn't need to have their vote bought.

To add--democrat political operatives & policians really need to stop insulting the tea party movement. There is one thing about Americans that is inherent. When they see a political party attacking hard working--tax paying citizens--Americans WILL ALWAYS take the citizens side, & will push back hard. But I think democrat politicians are too ignorant to understand that.

 

[MaggieMae]

Lately, the rhetoric has been about "listening to the people" and how a majority of "the people" are being ignored. The self-appointed spokesmen for "the people" appear to be the Tea Party Movement and, as part of a new chapter in rightwing talking points - the GoP.

In poll after poll, a consistently high majority is in favor of some form of public option in health care. Yet , the Republicans (through legislative digging in of heels) and the Tea Partiers (through desruptive and misleading rhetoric) have consistently denied "the people" any chance of this option being realized.


Why is the will of "the people" being ignored? Is it only the will of a special interest minority you listen to?

If someone can show me the part of the US Constitution that grants power to congress to legislate a public option for healthcare, fine. But it ain't in there.

That's always been the lamest of lame arguments. The US Code (law) is comprised of 50 titles (topics), each containing anywhere from one to several hundred volumes per title, amounting to thousands of pages. Is everything in those volumes specifically found in the Constitution?

 

[Darkwind]

I haven't expressed any belief on them. In fact, I specifically seperate them out from the Republicans. They are, however, a predominantly rightwing group and that is based on the stances they take, not "talking points".

Of course you have. And at the bottom of this post made by you, you claim they are in the GOP camp. But they are a hemogenous group of people from all parties and all walks of life. The reason you associate them with the GOP at all is because some people in the GOP and quite a few conservatives on this forum speak in the same terms they do. That government is intended to be limited. That government by Constitution is limited in power. That government is to be reigned in and given only that level of power needed to keep us safe.

Well duh....I'm trying to MAKE a point aren't I? So naturally I will choose evidence to prove my point. That's the whole point of a debate, yes?

For the record, my methedology (such as it was) consisted of a google search with the just the words "public option" and "poll" and the picked the first handful of polls that showed any sort of legitimacy (ie not a My Quiz facebook poll). Pew, I might add - is a pretty respected non-partisan polling source and I specifically searched for Pew data when precisely for that reason. If you are disatisfied with the polls I chose- feel free to add more data that counters them. Thus far the only polling source has been presented that contradicts the multiple sources I submitted is Rassmussen.

Honest individuals who wish to make a point do so with ALL available information. Not just the information that they agree with. They also don't just shrug off another persons evidence as "I don't put much credence in GOP polls". Unless of course you are equally willing to be dismissed. After all, why should we put any credence in Democrat polls when it has been shown that polls favoring Democrats are worded so that they do.

For the record, that google search of "Public Option" + Poll returns 1,440,000 hits. Did you go though and read each one? Did you discard those which did not agree with what you want to believe? Did you only chose those what mirrored your own world belief? You see the problem I have with your polls or for that matter with any poll. As for PEW....well, they are notably slanted Democrat. I don't trust the alleged objective opinion of someone from the left. Those people seem to think that CNN, NBC, CBS UPI, AP and the New York Times are objective reporting agencies.

I don't place much credence in a GoP poll - I simply found it interesting that a recent poll of theirs came out opposite of their chosen stance. Don't you find that interesting? I don't place much credence in Demoratic Party polls either.

I just answered this.

Good point. However, it doesn't answer the question as to why the people proclaiming themselves to be the voice of the people are not advocating for something the majority of the people feel is important - a public option.

Maybe they don't really speak for the people but rather for their own special interest groups

Because it has not been proven that the majority of the people feel it is important.

And you can blame yourself and the Democrats for that. Back in the Presidential election, the Democrats were crying about how health care was a crisis. They said they wanted to pass legislation that would cover everyone.

The bill they have only covers everyone because if you don't purchase some form of insurance they are going to throw you in jail. Sounds unConstitutonal to Me.

Then they were claiming that it was the insurance industry's fault that people could not afford insurance. The bill they have increases the costs even more and now even more people cannot afford it.

But here is the real kicker.

That stupid Congresswoman from Florida comes on the talk shows on a weekly basis and talks about how health care is a crisis.

THE VERY NEXT ******* BREATH SHE TAKES SHE THEN UTTERS THAT THE DEMOCRATS HAVE BEEN TRYING TO GET HEALTH CARE SINCE T. Roosevelt!!!

So which is it? Do you want health care because it is a progressive plan, regardless of what the people want or is it a ******* crisis?

 

[oreo]

This seems like a nice spot to step in and say that the Republicans and Tea Parties are completely powerless in this health care debate. The Democrats have basically said that they'll pass this without republican support.

So, who exactly were the ones to take the public option out?

Woe be to the politicians ass--that refuses to acknowledge the blow-back that happened in Mass.

"If a democrat can't win in MASS.--they can't win anywhere"

 

[Darkwind]

Lately, the rhetoric has been about "listening to the people" and how a majority of "the people" are being ignored. The self-appointed spokesmen for "the people" appear to be the Tea Party Movement and, as part of a new chapter in rightwing talking points - the GoP.

In poll after poll, a consistently high majority is in favor of some form of public option in health care. Yet , the Republicans (through legislative digging in of heels) and the Tea Partiers (through desruptive and misleading rhetoric) have consistently denied "the people" any chance of this option being realized.


Why is the will of "the people" being ignored? Is it only the will of a special interest minority you listen to?

If someone can show me the part of the US Constitution that grants power to congress to legislate a public option for healthcare, fine. But it ain't in there.

That's always been the lamest of lame arguments. The US Code (law) is comprised of 50 titles (topics), each containing anywhere from one to several hundred volumes per title, amounting to thousands of pages. Is everything in those volumes specifically found in the Constitution?

And here is your answer.

Every single part of those 50 titles have to have a basis in the Constitution otherwise they are not legitimate laws.

Everything the government does comes back to the Constitution. And the Constitution exists for the sole purpose of limiting the power of government.

 

[theDoctorisIn]

Lately, the rhetoric has been about "listening to the people" and how a majority of "the people" are being ignored. The self-appointed spokesmen for "the people" appear to be the Tea Party Movement and, as part of a new chapter in rightwing talking points - the GoP.

In poll after poll, a consistently high majority is in favor of some form of public option in health care. Yet , the Republicans (through legislative digging in of heels) and the Tea Partiers (through desruptive and misleading rhetoric) have consistently denied "the people" any chance of this option being realized.


Why is the will of "the people" being ignored? Is it only the will of a special interest minority you listen to?

Please tell me how a minority without the option of the fillibuster was able to prevent a bill with a public option.
Please tell me how they were able to prevent any legislation?

Because some Democrats are in too deep to the Insurance companies.

 

[MaggieMae]

Here's one poll for you regarding the "public option"

Toplines - Health Care - July 14-15, 2009 - Rasmussen Reports

See Question #2

And if it was so damn popular why was it the first thing jettisoned by the Senate and the President? Most Americans realize that the last thing we need is another competition destroying, bottomless government money pit like Medicare has become.

Yet, look at these polls:

This was a GoP poll (June 2009)

Well since the government already provides "coverage for those who can't afford it" (via Medicaid) that just leaves the 35% of lackwits that are oblivious to the governments track record.


From the article in that link
Earlier in the week, after pollsters for NBC dropped the word "choice" from their question on a public option, they found that only 43 percent of the public were in favor of "creating a public health care plan

SurveyUSA's poll, which was commissioned by the progressive group MoveOn.org, a proponent of the public plan, gives credence to those critiques. While arguments about what type of language best describe the public option persist --"choice" is considered a trigger word that everyone naturally supports -- it seems clear that the framing of the provision goes a long way toward determining its popularity.

Bing....


Doesn't even show what question(s) were asked to generate these numbers (the one I linked DOES).

Bang ....

Same as your first link, you linked it twice

Bop....


This one doesn't even say what poll it's sighting let alone the details of the questions asked to derive the data.

Bam ...


Really? Go back and take another look there's NO AMBIGUITY as to the question that was asked since it's right there in the link I gave you.

Who says it has to be set up like Medicare?

What makes you trust the government enough to think that it won't end up in the same boat because it certainly can't be the governments TRACK RECORD, in case it's escaped your notice it's government that has caused the majority of the problems that it's supposedly trying to address in the current health care system which is rather convenient for the political elites and the special interests don't you think?

Either way though - we're talking about what people want and who is or is not listening to them.

The people are shouting loud and clear what they want, they don't want the government is currently trying to force down there throats, whether you choose to listen to them or not is up to you but the politicians in Washington had better listen.

Bottom line on the people's voices on health care is this. If you look at all the polling here (scroll down to the bottom and click on "earlier reports"), you can clearly see that at the outset the American people overwhelming wanted some kind of health care reform resurrected, but once the right wing noise machine began its momentum, it met with the usual death.

Health Policy

 

[theDoctorisIn]

Lately, the rhetoric has been about "listening to the people" and how a majority of "the people" are being ignored. The self-appointed spokesmen for "the people" appear to be the Tea Party Movement and, as part of a new chapter in rightwing talking points - the GoP.

In poll after poll, a consistently high majority is in favor of some form of public option in health care. Yet , the Republicans (through legislative digging in of heels) and the Tea Partiers (through desruptive and misleading rhetoric) have consistently denied "the people" any chance of this option being realized.


Why is the will of "the people" being ignored? Is it only the will of a special interest minority you listen to?

No there isn't - I challenge you to prove your assertion. Most people do not want a "public option". There is a small lunatic fringe of far left wackjobs that want a government take over of heatlhcare via the "public option" or single payer program. The overwhelming majority of people prefer a sane and measured approach. Starting with tort reform, portability of benefits, competition across state lines, and insurance reform. We can do this, and we don't need to spend trillions of dollars and create a new entitlement program.

Numerous polls have been posted in this thread that prove you wrong. Every poll taken, with the exception of one Rassmussen poll from last June, shows that. So unless you can prove your assertion, you fail.

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

If this debacle called "healthcare reform" were truly the will of the people, we wouldn't be having this conversation right now. A guy just ran clearly AGAINST it and won Ted Kennedy's old seat who was clearly FOR it when he was alive.. in a fairly liberal state at that.

Didn't know if you got that memo yet.

 

[theDoctorisIn]

If this debacle called "healthcare reform" were truly the will of the people, we wouldn't be having this conversation right now. A guy just ran clearly AGAINST it and won Ted Kennedy's old seat who was clearly FOR it when he was alive.. in a fairly liberal state at that.

Didn't know if you got that memo yet.

No one is arguing that the public is against the current plan.

But they certainly are for health care reform.

 

[Darkwind]

Yet, look at these polls:

This was a GoP poll (June 2009)

Well since the government already provides "coverage for those who can't afford it" (via Medicaid) that just leaves the 35% of lackwits that are oblivious to the governments track record.


From the article in that link
Earlier in the week, after pollsters for NBC dropped the word "choice" from their question on a public option, they found that only 43 percent of the public were in favor of "creating a public health care plan

SurveyUSA's poll, which was commissioned by the progressive group MoveOn.org, a proponent of the public plan, gives credence to those critiques. While arguments about what type of language best describe the public option persist --"choice" is considered a trigger word that everyone naturally supports -- it seems clear that the framing of the provision goes a long way toward determining its popularity.

Bing....


Doesn't even show what question(s) were asked to generate these numbers (the one I linked DOES).

Bang ....

Same as your first link, you linked it twice

Bop....


This one doesn't even say what poll it's sighting let alone the details of the questions asked to derive the data.

Bam ...


Really? Go back and take another look there's NO AMBIGUITY as to the question that was asked since it's right there in the link I gave you.





What makes you trust the government enough to think that it won't end up in the same boat because it certainly can't be the governments TRACK RECORD, in case it's escaped your notice it's government that has caused the majority of the problems that it's supposedly trying to address in the current health care system which is rather convenient for the political elites and the special interests don't you think?

Either way though - we're talking about what people want and who is or is not listening to them.

The people are shouting loud and clear what they want, they don't want the government is currently trying to force down there throats, whether you choose to listen to them or not is up to you but the politicians in Washington had better listen.

Bottom line on the people's voices on health care is this. If you look at all the polling here (scroll down to the bottom and click on "earlier reports"), you can clearly see that at the outset the American people overwhelming wanted some kind of health care reform resurrected, but once the right wing noise machine began its momentum, it met with the usual death.

Health Policy

Ooo...Almost got a little honesty there....

The American people want health care, yes. They have bought into the load of crap that has been sold to them regarding a need to reform it.

Okay...that is the way it goes in America.

So, the American people want health care. What the Democrats have right now is anything BUT health care reform.

The GOP and most everyone on these forums are saying, scrap the POS that they have now and start talking about real reform. Reform that includes the ideas of the GOP (Yes, they had plenty of them) and reform that does NOT take over 1/6 of the U.S. Economy.

To say that the GOP is flat out against health reform is a lie.

 

[MaggieMae]

Well since the government already provides "coverage for those who can't afford it" (via Medicaid) that just leaves the 35% of lackwits that are oblivious to the governments track record.


From the article in that link
Earlier in the week, after pollsters for NBC dropped the word "choice" from their question on a public option, they found that only 43 percent of the public were in favor of "creating a public health care plan

SurveyUSA's poll, which was commissioned by the progressive group MoveOn.org, a proponent of the public plan, gives credence to those critiques. While arguments about what type of language best describe the public option persist --"choice" is considered a trigger word that everyone naturally supports -- it seems clear that the framing of the provision goes a long way toward determining its popularity.

Bing....


Doesn't even show what question(s) were asked to generate these numbers (the one I linked DOES).

Bang ....

Same as your first link, you linked it twice

Bop....


This one doesn't even say what poll it's sighting let alone the details of the questions asked to derive the data.

Bam ...


Really? Go back and take another look there's NO AMBIGUITY as to the question that was asked since it's right there in the link I gave you.





What makes you trust the government enough to think that it won't end up in the same boat because it certainly can't be the governments TRACK RECORD, in case it's escaped your notice it's government that has caused the majority of the problems that it's supposedly trying to address in the current health care system which is rather convenient for the political elites and the special interests don't you think?

The people are shouting loud and clear what they want, they don't want the government is currently trying to force down there throats, whether you choose to listen to them or not is up to you but the politicians in Washington had better listen.

Bottom line on the people's voices on health care is this. If you look at all the polling here (scroll down to the bottom and click on "earlier reports"), you can clearly see that at the outset the American people overwhelming wanted some kind of health care reform resurrected, but once the right wing noise machine began its momentum, it met with the usual death.

Health Policy

Ooo...Almost got a little honesty there....

The American people want health care, yes. They have bought into the load of crap that has been sold to them regarding a need to reform it.

Okay...that is the way it goes in America.

So, the American people want health care. What the Democrats have right now is anything BUT health care reform.

The GOP and most everyone on these forums are saying, scrap the POS that they have now and start talking about real reform. Reform that includes the ideas of the GOP (Yes, they had plenty of them) and reform that does NOT take over 1/6 of the U.S. Economy.

To say that the GOP is flat out against health reform is a lie.

Well, the issue started out as health care reform, then it evolved into health care insurance reform. So I think there are two separate issues here.

 

[Darkwind]

Bottom line on the people's voices on health care is this. If you look at all the polling here (scroll down to the bottom and click on "earlier reports"), you can clearly see that at the outset the American people overwhelming wanted some kind of health care reform resurrected, but once the right wing noise machine began its momentum, it met with the usual death.

Health Policy

Ooo...Almost got a little honesty there....

The American people want health care, yes. They have bought into the load of crap that has been sold to them regarding a need to reform it.

Okay...that is the way it goes in America.

So, the American people want health care. What the Democrats have right now is anything BUT health care reform.

The GOP and most everyone on these forums are saying, scrap the POS that they have now and start talking about real reform. Reform that includes the ideas of the GOP (Yes, they had plenty of them) and reform that does NOT take over 1/6 of the U.S. Economy.

To say that the GOP is flat out against health reform is a lie.

Well, the issue started out as health care reform, then it evolved into health care insurance reform. So I think there are two separate issues here.

Aye. What was it that the left called it when we first went into Afghanistan? Mission creep?

We definitely have a boat load of that going on.

 

[WillowTree]

Lately, the rhetoric has been about "listening to the people" and how a majority of "the people" are being ignored. The self-appointed spokesmen for "the people" appear to be the Tea Party Movement and, as part of a new chapter in rightwing talking points - the GoP.

In poll after poll, a consistently high majority is in favor of some form of public option in health care. Yet , the Republicans (through legislative digging in of heels) and the Tea Partiers (through desruptive and misleading rhetoric) have consistently denied "the people" any chance of this option being realized.


Why is the will of "the people" being ignored? Is it only the will of a special interest minority you listen to?

post these famous polls and let's see the wording and the answers.

 

[MIPS]

Lately, the rhetoric has been about "listening to the people" and how a majority of "the people" are being ignored. The self-appointed spokesmen for "the people" appear to be the Tea Party Movement and, as part of a new chapter in rightwing talking points - the GoP.

In poll after poll, a consistently high majority is in favor of some form of public option in health care. Yet , the Republicans (through legislative digging in of heels) and the Tea Partiers (through desruptive and misleading rhetoric) have consistently denied "the people" any chance of this option being realized.


Why is the will of "the people" being ignored? Is it only the will of a special interest minority you listen to?

No there isn't - I challenge you to prove your assertion. Most people do not want a "public option". There is a small lunatic fringe of far left wackjobs that want a government take over of heatlhcare via the "public option" or single payer program. The overwhelming majority of people prefer a sane and measured approach. Starting with tort reform, portability of benefits, competition across state lines, and insurance reform. We can do this, and we don't need to spend trillions of dollars and create a new entitlement program.

Numerous polls have been posted in this thread that prove you wrong. Every poll taken, with the exception of one Rassmussen poll from last June, shows that. So unless you can prove your assertion, you fail.

LOL, no one has "proven" any such thing, I already cited a poll that showed a contradictory response and pointed out why the others cited were suspect in nature, that being said there hasn't been one really honest "poll" even cited in this thread, since none of them (including Rasmussen) asked the REAL question at hand to whit:

"Do you support a government run public health care option and WOULD YOU BE WILLING TO PAY FOR IT IN THE FORM OF HIGHER TAXES?"

My guess is that once the "You pay for it clause" is added, the support would drop to somewhere around 10% since at least half the American Population assumes that the government will just pay for it using magical, fairy dust "Obama Money" .

The bottom line in the whole idea is unconstitutional as hell anyways so it doesn't really matter if everyone in the country "wants it", without a constitutional amendment the Federal Government doesn't have the authority to grant it, so you might as well do a poll asking whether people "Support the Federal Government giving every citizen a mansion and a lamborghini" since the numbers are likely to be about the same when people think they are getting something for nothing and the Federal Government still doesn't have the constitutional authority to hand them out.

 

[WillowTree]

Bottom line on the people's voices on health care is this. If you look at all the polling here (scroll down to the bottom and click on "earlier reports"), you can clearly see that at the outset the American people overwhelming wanted some kind of health care reform resurrected, but once the right wing noise machine began its momentum, it met with the usual death.

Health Policy

Ooo...Almost got a little honesty there....

The American people want health care, yes. They have bought into the load of crap that has been sold to them regarding a need to reform it.

Okay...that is the way it goes in America.

So, the American people want health care. What the Democrats have right now is anything BUT health care reform.

The GOP and most everyone on these forums are saying, scrap the POS that they have now and start talking about real reform. Reform that includes the ideas of the GOP (Yes, they had plenty of them) and reform that does NOT take over 1/6 of the U.S. Economy.

To say that the GOP is flat out against health reform is a lie.

Well, the issue started out as health care reform, then it evolved into health care insurance reform. So I think there are two separate issues here.

No, It started out as taking 500 billion dollars in care away from seniors, refusing to vote for e verification, so in essence voting for illegals on the plan,, so seniors get cut illegals get care... and you guys don't think that will upset people???? those were, are and will continute to be the issues along with all the secret back room deals handed down.. by the corrupt democrats.

 

[JakeStarkey]

(laughter ringing in the hall way) Willow, you liar. The whackos on the far right refused to vote for it because was supposedly an intrusive invasion of personal rights, and now you complain. (laughter continues)