The WGN story on the Obama/Ayers connection liberals don't wan't you to hear

[Ninja]

Weatherman underground terrorist Bill Ayers and Obama are linked in ways that Obama and friends want to hide. So much so that it appears they are telephoning WGN Radio station trying kill the story. What's the left afraid of? I think it's very obvious.

Stanely Kurtz is interviewed on WGN Radio by Milt Rosenberg. Hear it at the website.

WGN Radio - Extension 720 Unabridged - 720 WGN - 8-27-08

 

[dilloduck]

Weatherman underground terrorist Bill Ayers and Obama are linked in ways that Obama and friends want to hide. So much so that it appears they are telephoning WGN Radio station trying kill the story. What's the left afraid of? I think it's very obvious.

Stanely Kurtz is interviewed on WGN Radio by Milt Rosenberg. Hear it at the website.

WGN Radio - Extension 720 Unabridged - 720 WGN - 8-27-08

I can't wait for someone to realize how Gore plans on using Obama to make himself rich. And then there is always Gore's daddy and the Russians.

 

[Chris]

"This is a big election."

"Let's not make it about little things."

 

[Inferno]

Weatherman underground terrorist Bill Ayers and Obama are linked in ways that Obama and friends want to hide. So much so that it appears they are telephoning WGN Radio station trying kill the story. What's the left afraid of? I think it's very obvious.

Stanely Kurtz is interviewed on WGN Radio by Milt Rosenberg. Hear it at the website.

WGN Radio - Extension 720 Unabridged - 720 WGN - 8-27-08

G Gordon Liddy & McCain. Liddy was convicted. Ayers was convicted ofa few misdmeaners. No convictions about the Weather Underground.

 

[Gem]

Inferno Wrote:

No convictions about the Weather Underground.

Oh, come on, now.

You can claim that Obama's relationship with Ayers doesn't matter - but Ayers himself admits his role in the bombings and admits (rather gleefully as I remember) that he should have been convicted but got off on a technicality.

To sit here and ignore Ayers own statements, hiding behind the fact that he got off because of a technicality, is silly. The man is a proud terrorist. Whether or not that should effect the Obama campaign is another debate, I can see both sides of that argument - but lets not be coy about who Ayers is and what he has done.

 

[Chris]

This is a bullshit issue that the Republicans bring up because they have nothing else on Obama.

The real problem is that I think John McCain is starting to lose it.

Read his interview in Time Magazine.

 

[Inferno]

Inferno Wrote:


Oh, come on, now.

You can claim that Obama's relationship with Ayers doesn't matter - but Ayers himself admits his role in the bombings and admits (rather gleefully as I remember) that he should have been convicted but got off on a technicality.

To sit here and ignore Ayers own statements, hiding behind the fact that he got off because of a technicality, is silly. The man is a proud terrorist. Whether or not that should effect the Obama campaign is another debate, I can see both sides of that argument - but lets not be coy about who Ayers is and what he has done.

Admission to guilt and conviction are two different things. A criminal can admit to a crime in a police station but as he or she walks into court the yahave the presumption of innocence. They are not guilty until proven so. If they are found not guilty or the case is thrown they are indeed innocent until proven guilty. That is what Bill Ayers is innocent until proven guilty. Unless that Patriot act has taken that away as well. If you have any respect for the laws of the land you must agree thats what the are.

 

[Gem]

Inferno Wrote:

Admission to guilt and conviction are two different things. A criminal can admit to a crime in a police station but as he or she walks into court the yahave the presumption of innocence. They are not guilty until proven so. If they are found not guilty or the case is thrown they are indeed innocent until proven guilty. That is what Bill Ayers is innocent until proven guilty. Unless that Patriot act has taken that away as well. If you have any respect for the laws of the land you must agree thats what the are.

I agree that Ayers is not convicted of his crimes. I agree that he should walk free - and he does.

But to sit here and claim that he did not do something that he proudly proclaims he did is just intellectually dishonest.

If a killer goes free because the prosecution blew the case it doesn't mean he isn't a killer. It means that he was not found guilty of the crime in our system. He is free to go about his life...but he is still a killer.

 

[Chris]

There are two seperate threats on this issue.

Please moderators combine them.

 

[Inferno]

Inferno Wrote:


I agree that Ayers is not convicted of his crimes. I agree that he should walk free - and he does.

But to sit here and claim that he did not do something that he proudly proclaims he did is just intellectually dishonest.

If a killer goes free because the prosecution blew the case it doesn't mean he isn't a killer. It means that he was not found guilty of the crime in our system. He is free to go about his life...but he is still a killer.

I did not say Ayers did not do what he said. I am not saying he did those things either. i just stated the law and what it means to Ayers in his case.

I don't think that Ayers acted the way he should have if in fact he did do the alleged crimes. I state that no one was injured in anything that the Weather Undergrounds actions except the three of them that died in NY city.

At the time when Ayers was an activist the US was in a termoil. The wasr in Vietnam was tearing us apart. He may acted in these alleged acts out of a radical patriotism rather than hatred for the country.

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." Thomas Jefferson

May his actions be discribed by that statement by Jefferson. What in his mind was what was neede. They warned people and got tham to safty no one was harmed.

I suggest this as a possibe mindset to the alleged actions you speak of.

 

[Gem]

Inferno Wrote:

He may acted in these alleged acts out of a radical patriotism rather than hatred for the country.

I am quite sure that this is what he thinks he was doing. However, I'm not sure that Jefferson would have approved of some of his methods - including building bombs that he intended to kill US soldiers.

He claims now that they did not want to harm people - but that was not what he was stating at the time.

Anyone planning on engaging in heinous acts can look at Jefferson's quote and say, "That applies to me. That excuses/supports/justifies what I'm doing." That doesn't mean that it does.

The fascinating part, of course, is debating who it does excuse/justify/support, and why.

 

[Inferno]

Inferno Wrote:


I am quite sure that this is what he thinks he was doing. However, I'm not sure that Jefferson would have approved of some of his methods - including building bombs that he intended to kill US soldiers.

He claims now that they did not want to harm people - but that was not what he was stating at the time.

Anyone planning on engaging in heinous acts can look at Jefferson's quote and say, "That applies to me. That excuses/supports/justifies what I'm doing." That doesn't mean that it does.

The fascinating part, of course, is debating who it does excuse/justify/support, and why.

I agree that the debate on that point is excellent.

I see Ayers in his time as a radical. Having heard others from the Weather Underground as well as Ayers. I get the idea that they were very idealistic and looking for the fastest way to get the USA's attention on doing something about the war. Most of them were what i would classify as revolutionaries. They did not intend harm. They did at one point consider the bombing of a military target. I can say that as far as I know went down in flames with the explosion in NY. i am not certain that all involved with the Underground agreed that taking lives was the right thing to do.

There were other radical groups around at the time. The Black Panthers were as well. It was a time where people were tired of the status quo. Marching was just not enough. We marched in protest in many states. It didn't work.

Some stepped out and tried something else. I don't believe it was for the wrong reasons. i think the actions were wrong.

I think revolution is a good thing. I say this mean words and dialouge. i am anti violent. For many causes i would die but none for which i would kill. M.K.Ghandi. I hold that to be true. Revolution can come in many ways. the American revolution started with a letter and ended on fields of battle.

 

[Gem]

I suppose the question then becomes - how long after the actions do we wait before determining who was a revolutionary and who was a terrorist or traitor?

As we know, if we had lost the Revolutionary War than our Founding Fathers would have been hung as traitors. The winning of that war cemented their status as heroes, revolutionaries, patriots.

Some will argue that because the Vietnam War ended, because Nixon was impeached, because social change swept through the nation - that the Weather Underground members were heroes and/or patriots?

Some will argue that all of those things happened, but not because the Weather Underground and similar groups committed their crimes. That these people were traitors attacking their nation while they were young - and now they have "sold out," living middle-class/upper-class lives in the same society they damned and fought against decades ago.

How long do we wait before we decide? How do we decide? Who gets to say? And if it is an individual decision, than can one side be "wrong" and the other side "right?"

Can one person feel that they are traitors, and that Obama's involvement with them speaks to his character and be right, while another person can feel that they were the revolutionaries of their day and that Obama's involvement with them speaks only to the fact that they lived in the same town and served on the same committees, and be right as well?

 

[DiveCon]

I suppose the question then becomes - how long after the actions do we wait before determining who was a revolutionary and who was a terrorist or traitor?

As we know, if we had lost the Revolutionary War than our Founding Fathers would have been hung as traitors. The winning of that war cemented their status as heroes, revolutionaries, patriots.

Some will argue that because the Vietnam War ended, because Nixon was impeached, because social change swept through the nation - that the Weather Underground members were heroes and/or patriots?

Some will argue that all of those things happened, but not because the Weather Underground and similar groups committed their crimes. That these people were traitors attacking their nation while they were young - and now they have "sold out," living middle-class/upper-class lives in the same society they damned and fought against decades ago.

How long do we wait before we decide? How do we decide? Who gets to say? And if it is an individual decision, than can one side be "wrong" and the other side "right?"

Can one person feel that they are traitors, and that Obama's involvement with them speaks to his character and be right, while another person can feel that they were the revolutionaries of their day and that Obama's involvement with them speaks only to the fact that they lived in the same town and served on the same committees, and be right as well?

um, correction, Nixon was NOT impeached, he resigned

 

[Gem]

DiveCom Wrote:

um, correction, Nixon was NOT impeached, he resigned

Ugh, my bad. Its late here and I've been unpacking boxes all day.