"The wealthiest in this country do not pay their fair share." [Bernie Sanders]

[hadit]

If everyone has to pay taxes on thing, and these people are paying less than that, then they're not paying enough.

Even if they're paying 90% of the taxes in the country (according to their math), it doesn't matter. They need to be paying their FAIR SHARE. Not spending loads of money getting poor people to defend them because they present stats like "well, we pay 90% of all tax" when they're not paying enough.

And, as always, there's no definition of fair share. What they usually mean when they say fair share is, "MORE, MORE, MORE". Raise the highest rate to 50% and in 5 years it's not high enough and they're not paying their fair share. Raise it again to 60% and the same thing happens.

They don't want to be pinned down because if their target is ever reached, they won't be able to credibly demand more.

 

[ThisIsMe]

Well, it depends on what you think the problem is. If it's about fairness, then making the rich pay their fair share, then you'd solve that problem.

Again, fair would be everyone pays the same rate, that’s the only real fair way to do it. Taxing wealthy people at a higher rate because they are wealthy is unfair to them. Besides, your beef isn’t really with wealthy people, it’s with corporations.

Yeah, that's not Proportional Representation, it's First Past The Post.

It's like calling an apple an orange simply because you can't be bothered to figure out what an apple is.

If you have a field with 10,000 apple trees and you have 300 apple pickers and another field with 1000 apple trees and 30 apple pickers, the apple pickers are proportional to the number of apple trees.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

So I asked ChatGPT:

Are there any estimates of the average actual individual effective income tax rate that the wealthiest in America pay?


Standard IRS data usually shows the wealthy paying a higher percentage of their reported income (the money they "realize" through sales or wages), while independent research often looks at wealth growth (unrealized gains) to calculate a "true" tax rate.

1. The "True Tax Rate" (Based on Wealth Growth)​

This metric is favored by researchers who argue that the ultra-wealthy derive their economic power from the appreciation of assets (like stocks or real estate) rather than traditional paychecks. Because these gains aren't taxed until they are sold, the effective rate on their total economic gains is much lower.

• ProPublica (2021): Analyzed the 25 wealthiest Americans and found they paid a "true tax rate" of just 3.4% between 2014 and 2018. For specific individuals, like Warren Buffett, the rate was estimated as low as 0.1% because his reported income was a tiny fraction of his wealth growth.
  
  
  
• White House / CEA (2021): An analysis by the Council of Economic Advisers and OMB economists estimated that the wealthiest 400 families paid an average federal individual income tax rate of 8.2% when including unrealized capital gains in their income.

2. The Traditional Effective Rate (Based on Reported Income)​

If you only look at the income reported on tax returns—which excludes the billions in value added to portfolios that isn't "cashed out"—the rates appear much higher.

• The Top 1%: According to the Tax Foundation (using 2020 IRS data), the top 1% of earners paid an average effective federal income tax rate of 26%.
  
  
  
• The Top 400 Families: A Berkeley study (Yagan, 2023) estimated that the 400 wealthiest families pay a federal rate of approximately 9.6% to 12% when using a more comprehensive "Haig-Simons" definition of income (which includes change in wealth).

Why the Rates are Lower for the Ultra-Wealthy​

• Capital Gains vs. Ordinary Income: Investment income is generally taxed at a maximum of 20%, whereas the top marginal rate for wages (ordinary income) is 37%.
  
  
  
• Unrealized Gains: As mentioned, a stock's value can increase by billions, but no tax is owed until the shares are sold.
  
  
  
• Step-Up in Basis: If an individual holds an asset until death, the "cost basis" resets for their heirs. This effectively wipes out the capital gains tax on a lifetime of appreciation.
• "Buy, Borrow, Die" Strategy: Many ultra-wealthy individuals take out low-interest loans against their stock portfolios to fund their lifestyles. Since loans aren't "income," they aren't taxed, allowing the individual to avoid selling shares and triggering a tax event.

---

Summary Note: If you define income as "what you tell the IRS you made," the wealthy pay around 25%. If you define income as "how much richer you got this year," that rate drops to between 3% and 8%.

It's true, the rich don't pay any income tax on things that aren't income.

If you define income as "how much richer you got this year," that rate drops to between 3% and 8%.

If you're a moron, that's how you define income.

 

[Nostra]

Define "fair share".

How much of the total income tax bill should these groups pay:

Top 1%
Top 10%
Top 25%
Top 50%

Break down a "fair share". If you clowns can't tell us what it is, how do we know when it is fair?

Can one of you other Wealth Envy Cult idiots help frigidweirdo out?

He can't seem to articulate what a FAIR SHARE is........................

 

[leftwinger]

View attachment 1245530

The Deep State has enough funding. Stop the fraud like HHS finally found and stopped some.

 

[leftwinger]

Fair is everyone paying the same amount. Take the cost of running the Federal government, divide by the number of people between 20 and 60, and there is the amount everyone pays. Unfortunately, this is impractical. You can't get blood from a turnup, and many people are turnips.

So you end up with a graduated income tax system that is in place today. Half the people don't pay anything. In fact, some people get money from the Federal government because of their turnipishness. The more capable, talented, and hard working people bear the brunt of the tax cost. Which is unappreciated by the bottom turnips. A leech always wants more.

Can't wait for the wealth taxes to kick in.

Not fair. But here we are.

Preposterous. $2T in "welfare" and $1T fraudulent. You people are insane.

Deep State GOVT all get rich bamboozling the Board Swine.

 

[leftwinger]

All we have to do to balance the federal budget is ban all tax expenditures. Simple as that.

And raise the Social Security eligibility age to 70, and index it to 9 percent of the population going forward.

Then we would have a huge surplus we can use to pay down the debt. Once the debt is paid, we can lower tax rates for EVERYONE.

All this noise about the rich paying too much and the poor paying too little is deliberately geared toward dividing the country and keeping the obvious solution obscured from the people.

A lot of them you listed are giveaways to the poor. You know they won't stop those.

Medical insurance deduction. The powers that be figured if in good health you are worth more to them.

Savings plans (401K). They get taxed eventually.

You've e got very little but big talk.

 

[leftwinger]

This is a totally misleading narrative. Everyone pays payroll taxes, and payroll taxes are 35 percent of the federal government's revenues.

So when someone says the wealthy pay such-and-such percent of INCOME taxes, they are deliberately misdirecting you. It's a blatant lie of omission, and you obviously fell for it.


As for our progressive taxation system, this is exactly in accordance with what our Founder's intended.

But the consequences of this enormous inequality producing so much misery to the bulk of mankind, legislators cannot invent too many devices for subdividing property

[snip]


Another means of silently lessening the inequality of property is to exempt all from taxation below a certain point, and to tax the higher portions of property in geometrical progression as they rise.

Equality: Thomas Jefferson to James Madison



No, not all billionaires are paying millions in taxes. Many of them are paying NO taxes, and hiding behind high INCOME earners.

As for Musk, he paid $11 billion in taxes ONE TIME because he had sold a huge chunk of Tesla stock and he exercised stock options which were about to expire.

In 2018, Musk paid ZERO income taxes.

Hogwash. Paying taxes for millions of employees, property, business tax or they are investing.
Everyone follows tax law or IRS will come get them to pay up.

Your problem is with Congress and the 700 page tax booklet.

 

[leftwinger]

Of course raising taxes on wealthy people will just make the wealthy people who control politics put someone like Trump in to lower the taxes.

The solution is to get rich people away from controlling the government. Having Proportional Representation.

How do you do this or that is neither here not there. First you need to figure out what should be taxed and what shouldn't first.

As for how the government spends money, perhaps a new constitution with new powers and limits needs to be written, so governments can't go spending money on pointless things.

More BS from a broke crazy loser who at one time claimed to live in France? Get off the boards clown.

 

[LAUGHatLEFTISTS]

Well, I've spoken about this before.

It depends on how much of the government services you use. Clearly richer people use more government services than poorer people.

Rich people have a pool of workers who have been educated, usually at government expense, they use the infrastructure in place, they use the security of the country.

United States (US) Salary Tax Calculator - Good Calculators

Use our United States Salary Tax calculator to determine how much tax will be paid on your annual Salary. Federal tax, state tax, Medicare, as well as Social Security tax allowances, are all taken into account and are kept up to date with 2025/26 rates

goodcalculators.com

Okay, I chose Indiana, simple because it was the first one I clicked on. $40,000 because it's a default, single because it's the default.

The person is paying 16.43% in tax, so, taking home $33,400 a year.

Then there's sales tax which in Indiana is 7%.

Difficult to know how much sales tax they'd pay, but let's halve that to 3.5% and you've got $1,100. So they're paying about 20% in tax.

Most Of Billionaires’ $7.6 Trillion Has Never Been Taxed - Americans For Tax Fairness

Total Billionaire Wealth Is Up 160% Since First Trump Tax Law; Proposed New Levy Would Finally Tax Unrealized Gains of the Wealthiest American billionaires reached a record breaking $7.6 trillion of personal wealth as of Labor Day 2025, up $4.7 trillion (or 160%) in the less than eight years...

americansfortaxfairness.org

"Most of that wealth increase (an estimated 56%, or $4.2 trillion) has never been taxed and may never be under current law."

Whereas a billionaire president implemented a law that allowed most wealth the rich own to not be taxed.

That's clearly not fair. If a poor person is being taxed on ALL their income (legal income), why shouldn't rich people?

Rich people use more services, make the most of what the government is providing. So they pay more, and they should pay more.

It's obvious when the rich spend money to tell the poor how much income tax they're paying, they don't present this fairly.

They'll just say "hey, we pay 80% of all the tax" in a "wow, look how great we are, look at that big fat number" without actually spending time to figure out what is what.

Cool story. Our politicians have a spending problem not a revenue problem.

 

[Hafar1014]

Owning stocks as anyone can do is the way to share in the profits of the wealthy. Thats who youre investing in. When they get rich investors get rich as stocks increase and pay dividends.

The government cant create wealth so they take it from us as taxes and inflation. When the government gets rich we get poor. How did we do under Biden he expanded government and we got 9% inflation high and gas prices. We paid for that. When I bought stock in Amazon they got rich and I did too. So tell me which is better. What does the government do with our money. Consider the massive fraud in CA and Minn. They pay off their cronies and supporters.

So what kind of fool advocates the rich pay more and the government gets more of their/our money? Thats called indoctrination, ignorance and some stupidity.

If you dont invest in the stock market thats your choice. Afraid because you dont understand it. Then buy Vanguard Market index ETF. Let them do all the work.

Remember Jesus saves but Moses invests.

 

[leftwinger]

Several times I've posted a quick solution if the goal is to add more Federal revenue from the rich.

One way is a national sales tax on every property over say...$4.99million. Maybe that wont kill GDP like all your other nonsense would kill the economy.

Im leaving this thread. A rehash ever few years with the same idiots trying to tax the Rich but dont know how.

Raise capital gains. OK do it.
Raise top income tax to 90%. OK try it. You wont get more revenue but an initial false bump. Then GDPvwill drop. GOVT tax always settles out at 20% of GDP. Bye bye.

 

[Nostra]

The Deep State has enough funding. Stop the fraud like HHS finally found and stopped some.

500 more than Gelboi's 4 year "investigations".

 

[Robert W]

That’s right. His employees pay taxes. Trump doesn’t.

Taxes are for poor people.

40% of we Americans pay no income taxes. Why are you hurting so much over what Trump does? Democrats, and check it out, have authored the majority of our tax laws. So, if Trump does not pay income taxes, thank the Democrats.

 

[Robert W]

That’s right. His employees pay taxes. Trump doesn’t.

Taxes are for poor people.

What? You pay taxes?

One thing John Kennedy did for America is he drastically slashed taxes. On that score he was a fine American president.

Explain Marener why Democrats are so in love with extreme taxation? It is truly taxation without representation.

Here is the plain truth, Americans never petition their Feds to jack up our taxes. Rather they call on congress to spend less and cut taxes. Democrats don't listen and want to keep raising taxes. Why will Americans vote for democrats who want to raise their taxes all day long?

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

It's not so much who pays what, it's what it's paying for....~S~

Proportional Individualism

That's why taxpayers should tell the government which Departments they want their taxes to go to.

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

So the laws make it so monumentally wealthy people don’t have to pay taxes.

Which means Bernie is right.

Bernout

Using a creepy extremist like Sanders discredits a thread that shouldn't refer to that kind of strawman.

 

[Robert W]

Proportional Individualism

That's why taxpayers should tell the government which Departments they want their taxes to go to.

Active beaver.

Taxpayers try to do that all the time. We do not have a true taxation with representation. Try next time to address the Feds and tell them where to spend cash. Bet you won't try.

 

[Robert W]

Several times I've posted a quick solution if the goal is to add more Federal revenue from the rich.

One way is a national sales tax on every property over say...$4.99million. Maybe that wont kill GDP like all your other nonsense would kill the economy.

Im leaving this thread. A rehash ever few years with the same idiots trying to tax the Rich but dont know how.

Raise capital gains. OK do it.
Raise top income tax to 90%. OK try it. You wont get more revenue but an initial false bump. Then GDPvwill drop. GOVT tax always settles out at 20% of GDP. Bye bye.

Taxes baffles Americans.

Consider points shaving. A crime per the Democrats laws.

Taxes need to have a new mindset among we Americans.

Why charge taxes?

Many will spool off a hundred ideas yet will bravely object to hundreds of others.

Taxing the rich reminds me of taking away points from the famous Stephen Curry and donating his points to the other team.

Because they are very rich is the excuse. But show me in our constitution where it claims that the very rich must pay extreme taxes?

We have a group of Americans who truly can say, they are taxed without representation.

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

Every worker does pay the same rate already

Reverse Graduated, Just Like in Their Eweniversities

That rate stops at earning of 176K. So the Plutes pay a much lower percentage.