"The wealthiest in this country do not pay their fair share." [Bernie Sanders]

[leftwinger]

They pay roughly 24% in tax and average Joe Public pays 30%, because the rich derive income from assets that are taxed lower, and Joe Public receive wages that are taxed higher.

Rich own business that pay federal income taxes + 1/2 of SS + 1/2 Health insurance for 160 million workers. No poor people own Catipillar or Monsanto.

 

[LeftofLeft]

This is a tried and true class warfare tactic from the Left. Specifically, the Left plays on economic class envy and demonizes the high annual income earners as a justification to take more money from the taxpayer. Any increase in taxes simply results in more spending - not debt paydown.

The Left does not realize when they punish wealth they reduce incentive for people to earn maximum potential. High earners will literally cap their annual earnings to avoid higher /more taxes.

 

[TroglocratsRdumb]

The Poor don't pay federal income taxes.
The Rich have tax shelters.
The Middle Class can't escape taxes because they are taken from their paychecks before they get it.

When the Democrats say "tax the rich" they mean the Middle Class.

 

[TroglocratsRdumb]

 

[TroglocratsRdumb]

 

[Captain Caveman]

Not sure about the American system, but get savvy with tax and accountancy and save yourself a small fortune. I do that in the UK.

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

Income tax was/is a pure power grab. The sooner we repeal it the better.

Whatever Is Never Talked About Is Something We Ought to Think About

You want to get rid of income taxes, even for the rich? Tax away all inheritances and trust funds, at least over a certain level that puts the spoiled brats above where they'd naturally belong.

Shying away from ever mentioning this solution means that Americans are afraid of ghosts.

 

[frigidweirdo]

Ok, I’m going to agree with you. So what is a “fair share”?

Well, I've spoken about this before.

It depends on how much of the government services you use. Clearly richer people use more government services than poorer people.

Rich people have a pool of workers who have been educated, usually at government expense, they use the infrastructure in place, they use the security of the country.

United States (US) Salary Tax Calculator - Good Calculators

Use our United States Salary Tax calculator to determine how much tax will be paid on your annual Salary. Federal tax, state tax, Medicare, as well as Social Security tax allowances, are all taken into account and are kept up to date with 2025/26 rates

goodcalculators.com

Okay, I chose Indiana, simple because it was the first one I clicked on. $40,000 because it's a default, single because it's the default.

The person is paying 16.43% in tax, so, taking home $33,400 a year.

Then there's sales tax which in Indiana is 7%.

Difficult to know how much sales tax they'd pay, but let's halve that to 3.5% and you've got $1,100. So they're paying about 20% in tax.

Most Of Billionaires’ $7.6 Trillion Has Never Been Taxed - Americans For Tax Fairness

Total Billionaire Wealth Is Up 160% Since First Trump Tax Law; Proposed New Levy Would Finally Tax Unrealized Gains of the Wealthiest American billionaires reached a record breaking $7.6 trillion of personal wealth as of Labor Day 2025, up $4.7 trillion (or 160%) in the less than eight years...

americansfortaxfairness.org

"Most of that wealth increase (an estimated 56%, or $4.2 trillion) has never been taxed and may never be under current law."

Whereas a billionaire president implemented a law that allowed most wealth the rich own to not be taxed.

That's clearly not fair. If a poor person is being taxed on ALL their income (legal income), why shouldn't rich people?

Rich people use more services, make the most of what the government is providing. So they pay more, and they should pay more.

It's obvious when the rich spend money to tell the poor how much income tax they're paying, they don't present this fairly.

They'll just say "hey, we pay 80% of all the tax" in a "wow, look how great we are, look at that big fat number" without actually spending time to figure out what is what.

 

[frigidweirdo]

View attachment 1245532

Maybe he'd owe the IRS less if the billionaires paid their fair share.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Well, I've spoken about this before.

It depends on how much of the government services you use. Clearly richer people use more government services than poorer people.

Rich people have a pool of workers who have been educated, usually at government expense, they use the infrastructure in place, they use the security of the country.

United States (US) Salary Tax Calculator - Good Calculators

Use our United States Salary Tax calculator to determine how much tax will be paid on your annual Salary. Federal tax, state tax, Medicare, as well as Social Security tax allowances, are all taken into account and are kept up to date with 2025/26 rates

goodcalculators.com

Okay, I chose Indiana, simple because it was the first one I clicked on. $40,000 because it's a default, single because it's the default.

The person is paying 16.43% in tax, so, taking home $33,400 a year.

Then there's sales tax which in Indiana is 7%.

Difficult to know how much sales tax they'd pay, but let's halve that to 3.5% and you've got $1,100. So they're paying about 20% in tax.

Most Of Billionaires’ $7.6 Trillion Has Never Been Taxed - Americans For Tax Fairness

Total Billionaire Wealth Is Up 160% Since First Trump Tax Law; Proposed New Levy Would Finally Tax Unrealized Gains of the Wealthiest American billionaires reached a record breaking $7.6 trillion of personal wealth as of Labor Day 2025, up $4.7 trillion (or 160%) in the less than eight years...

americansfortaxfairness.org

"Most of that wealth increase (an estimated 56%, or $4.2 trillion) has never been taxed and may never be under current law."

Whereas a billionaire president implemented a law that allowed most wealth the rich own to not be taxed.

That's clearly not fair. If a poor person is being taxed on ALL their income (legal income), why shouldn't rich people?

Rich people use more services, make the most of what the government is providing. So they pay more, and they should pay more.

It's obvious when the rich spend money to tell the poor how much income tax they're paying, they don't present this fairly.

They'll just say "hey, we pay 80% of all the tax" in a "wow, look how great we are, look at that big fat number" without actually spending time to figure out what is what.

"Most of that wealth increase (an estimated 56%, or $4.2 trillion) has never been taxed and may never be under current law.

We don't tax wealth.

That's clearly not fair. If a poor person is being taxed on ALL their income (legal income), why shouldn't rich people?

Rich people are taxed on all their income.

Rich people use more services

Which ones?

 

[ThisIsMe]

Well, I've spoken about this before.

It depends on how much of the government services you use. Clearly richer people use more government services than poorer people.

Rich people have a pool of workers who have been educated, usually at government expense, they use the infrastructure in place, they use the security of the country.

United States (US) Salary Tax Calculator - Good Calculators

Use our United States Salary Tax calculator to determine how much tax will be paid on your annual Salary. Federal tax, state tax, Medicare, as well as Social Security tax allowances, are all taken into account and are kept up to date with 2025/26 rates

goodcalculators.com

Okay, I chose Indiana, simple because it was the first one I clicked on. $40,000 because it's a default, single because it's the default.

The person is paying 16.43% in tax, so, taking home $33,400 a year.

Then there's sales tax which in Indiana is 7%.

Difficult to know how much sales tax they'd pay, but let's halve that to 3.5% and you've got $1,100. So they're paying about 20% in tax.

Most Of Billionaires’ $7.6 Trillion Has Never Been Taxed - Americans For Tax Fairness

Total Billionaire Wealth Is Up 160% Since First Trump Tax Law; Proposed New Levy Would Finally Tax Unrealized Gains of the Wealthiest American billionaires reached a record breaking $7.6 trillion of personal wealth as of Labor Day 2025, up $4.7 trillion (or 160%) in the less than eight years...

americansfortaxfairness.org

"Most of that wealth increase (an estimated 56%, or $4.2 trillion) has never been taxed and may never be under current law."

Whereas a billionaire president implemented a law that allowed most wealth the rich own to not be taxed.

That's clearly not fair. If a poor person is being taxed on ALL their income (legal income), why shouldn't rich people?

Rich people use more services, make the most of what the government is providing. So they pay more, and they should pay more.

It's obvious when the rich spend money to tell the poor how much income tax they're paying, they don't present this fairly.

They'll just say "hey, we pay 80% of all the tax" in a "wow, look how great we are, look at that big fat number" without actually spending time to figure out what is what.

Ok, but unrealized capital gains is not income, so how can you tax that.

Realized capital gains are taxed lower as an incentive for growth vestment. What happens if you invest 100 million and the stock market tanks, is the government going to cut you a big ole check for the capital loss?

How do rich people use more government services? Do you mean corporations? Because I don’t see how a wealthy individual uses more government services.

If you are talking about businesses, then you’d a have to tax the business at a higher rate, not the individual.

If you increase tax on business, it hurts us because business passes that tax on to the consumer, if you tax wealthy individuals, they just offshore their money to hide it from taxes, or, the convert it to high value assets like gold or art.

And I’ll say it again, raising taxes on wealth people will solve nothing. The government will new ways to spend the extra money, rather than using it where it needs to go.

ANY tax increase would have to be preceded by permanent spending cuts, or you’d just be pissing in the wind.

 

[frigidweirdo]

Ok, but unrealized capital gains is not income, so how can you tax that.

Realized capital gains are taxed lower as an incentive for growth vestment. What happens if you invest 100 million and the stock market tanks, is the government going to cut you a big ole check for the capital loss?

How do rich people use more government services? Do you mean corporations? Because I don’t see how a wealthy individual uses more government services.

If you are talking about businesses, then you’d a have to tax the business at a higher rate, not the individual.

If you increase tax on business, it hurts us because business passes that tax on to the consumer, if you tax wealthy individuals, they just offshore their money to hide it from taxes, or, the convert it to high value assets like gold or art.

And I’ll say it again, raising taxes on wealth people will solve nothing. The government will new ways to spend the extra money, rather than using it where it needs to go.

ANY tax increase would have to be preceded by permanent spending cuts, or you’d just be pissing in the wind.

Of course raising taxes on wealthy people will just make the wealthy people who control politics put someone like Trump in to lower the taxes.

The solution is to get rich people away from controlling the government. Having Proportional Representation.

How do you do this or that is neither here not there. First you need to figure out what should be taxed and what shouldn't first.

As for how the government spends money, perhaps a new constitution with new powers and limits needs to be written, so governments can't go spending money on pointless things.

 

[g5000]

Most of the taxes paid are paid by the top earners, and the bottom half of the citizenry pay nothing or less than nothing (EITC). Nobody disputes that and few people care.

This is a totally misleading narrative. Everyone pays payroll taxes, and payroll taxes are 35 percent of the federal government's revenues.

So when someone says the wealthy pay such-and-such percent of INCOME taxes, they are deliberately misdirecting you. It's a blatant lie of omission, and you obviously fell for it.


As for our progressive taxation system, this is exactly in accordance with what our Founder's intended.

But the consequences of this enormous inequality producing so much misery to the bulk of mankind, legislators cannot invent too many devices for subdividing property

[snip]


Another means of silently lessening the inequality of property is to exempt all from taxation below a certain point, and to tax the higher portions of property in geometrical progression as they rise.

Equality: Thomas Jefferson to James Madison

Hence that "Billionaire" is likely paying millions in taxes (Elon paid ELEVEN BILLION DOLLARS in FIT in 2021!), even as he pays at a rate significantly lower than the top marginal tax rate on the scale.

No, not all billionaires are paying millions in taxes. Many of them are paying NO taxes, and hiding behind high INCOME earners.

As for Musk, he paid $11 billion in taxes ONE TIME because he had sold a huge chunk of Tesla stock and he exercised stock options which were about to expire.

In 2018, Musk paid ZERO income taxes.

 

[g5000]

All we have to do to balance the federal budget is ban all tax expenditures. Simple as that.

And raise the Social Security eligibility age to 70, and index it to 9 percent of the population going forward.

Then we would have a huge surplus we can use to pay down the debt. Once the debt is paid, we can lower tax rates for EVERYONE.

All this noise about the rich paying too much and the poor paying too little is deliberately geared toward dividing the country and keeping the obvious solution obscured from the people.