Zone1 The War In Heaven

[ding]

I’m sure they would say they fucked up… but after let’s say a trillion years with no good. Do you think they would say existence is mostly good for them?

I doubt time exists outside of our reality.

 

[ding]

If hell is a place we can go after we die then it is part of our existence. Ive been talking about both this life and the afterlife. I don’t see how you can talk about existence without considering where we spend an eternity after we die

I already told you I don’t believe hell is a place. Hell is being separated from God.

Look if you want to believe existence sucks, be my guest.

 

[ding]

The amount is good vs bad in the 0-100 years we spend in this life has no significance compare to where we spend the rest of eternity. You could have 100 great years with very little bad in this world and then die and go to hell for the rest of eternity. Don’t you think that soul in hell would have preferred to never have existed at all?

I think you are wasting my time now.

 

[Slade3200]

I doubt time exists outside of our reality.

Time has to exist. It may be perceived differently but it definitely exists

 

[Slade3200]

I already told you I don’t believe hell is a place. Hell is being separated from God.

Look if you want to believe existence sucks, be my guest.

It’s not about me believing existence is good or bad. I’m sure some think it’s great and others not.

But you said earlier that hell is to be without god. Do you think an existence without God as a mostly good or mostly bad one?

 

[Slade3200]

I think you are wasting my time now.

Wasting time? Why? I thought we were having a good talk. Getting down to the root of things things is tough. I’m happy to take a break if you’d like to think on it a bit. But understanding your position on this helps determine purpose and helps in addressing real life issues

 

[onefour1]

As a kind of side note: I got briefly interested yesterday in the notion of a war in heaven. So I did a little digging.

The Biblical references do not describe the use of weapons or any killing. It apparently did involve (according to the words in the Bible) the tossing down to Hell of those who transgressed the laws of God (amounting to doubting Him or casting aspersions about Him).

I suspect that the use of the word “war”is therefore inaccurate.

It also involved a dragon.

Revelation 12:7​

“And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,”

King James Version (KJV)

The term dragon is another name used for Satan but is not literal. He is called a dragon for rebelling against God and seeking to lead the rest of the children of God astray.

 

[BackAgain]

The term dragon is another name used for Satan but is not literal. He is called a dragon for rebelling against God and seeking to lead the rest of the children of God astray.

Lol. Even I figured that out.

 

[ding]

Time has to exist. It may be perceived differently but it definitely exists

Time is a convenient measure of the expansion of the universe. Time doesn’t really exist. It’s called the problem with time.

 

[ding]

It’s not about me believing existence is good or bad. I’m sure some think it’s great and others not.

But you said earlier that hell is to be without god. Do you think an existence without God as a mostly good or mostly bad one?

It kinda of is as you objected to Maimonides belief that all existence is good. You are making false comparisons. I humored you for a little while thinking that you would realize the vast majority of everyone’s lives was good and not bad and I could leave it at that. But the actual comparison is existence or no existence for everyone and everything. You may not recognize the incredible rare gift you have received but I do. I have the entire universe to contemplate and all of it’s wonders. Life being being its greatest. It’s a matter of perspective and I don’t believe you possess it. No amount of discussion will make you see it because you see what you want to see. So let’s just agree to disagree and not waste each other’s time.

 

[Slade3200]

Time is a convenient measure of the expansion of the universe. Time doesn’t really exist. It’s called the problem with time.

Time is a measure of existence. No time = no existence

 

[ding]

Wasting time? Why? I thought we were having a good talk. Getting down to the root of things things is tough. I’m happy to take a break if you’d like to think on it a bit. But understanding your position on this helps determine purpose and helps in addressing real life issues

Yes. I’m having to repeat myself and discuss the same thing. Go be happy.

 

[Slade3200]

It kinda of is as you objected to Maimonides belief that all existence is good. You are making false comparisons. I humored you for a little while thinking that you would realize the vast majority of everyone’s lives was good and not bad and I could leave it at that. But the actual comparison is existence or no existence for everyone and everything. You may not recognize the incredible rare gift you have received but I do. I have the entire universe to contemplate and all of it’s wonders. Life being being its greatest. It’s a matter of perspective and I don’t believe you possess it. No amount of discussion will make you see it because you see what you want to see. So let’s just agree to disagree and not waste each other’s time.

I’m very appreciative of life. But I’m not going to assume that everybody shares my experience.

Let me progress the conversation by asking a new but related question. Do you think there is an existence after our time in this world? Do we exists in a heaven or hell? If so what is that existence like?

 

[ding]

Time is a measure of existence. No time = no existence

No. The most anyone can say is that time is a convenient measure of the expansion of the universe aka space and time. Time doesn’t really exist. It’s called the problem with time. Look it up.

 

[BackAgain]

No. The most anyone can say is that time is a convenient measure of the expansion of the universe aka space and time. Time doesn’t really exist. It’s called the problem with time. Look it up.

There are some scientific claims that simply don’t make sense.

I had surgery on my knee when I was in junior high. It left a scar. Many many years later, the scar has faded. Pretty clear evidence that the surgery was in the past.

That’s time. I don’t have any scars from something that might happen in the future.

 

[ding]

I’m very appreciative of life. But I’m not going to assume that everybody shares my experience.

Let me progress the conversation by asking a new but related question. Do you think there is an existence after our time in this world? Do we exists in a heaven or hell? If so what is that existence like?

No idea. The closest I can come to perceiving God is consciousness without form.

I believe what George Wald wrote, “That Mind, rather than emerging as a late outgrowth in the evolution of life, has existed always as the matrix, the source and condition of physical reality - that the stuff of which physical reality is composed is mind-stuff. It is Mind that has composed a physical universe that breeds life, and so eventually evolves creatures that know and create.”

 

[ding]

There are some scientific claims that simply don’t make sense.

I had surgery on my knee when I was in junior high. It left a scar. Many many years later, the scar has faded. Pretty clear evidence that the surgery was in the past.

That’s time. I don’t have any scars from something that might happen in the future.

Time can be confusing. Try reading up on Einstein’s work.

 

[BackAgain]

Time can be confusing. Try reading up on Einstein’s work.

Oh brother. I’ve tried. Let’s just say that I’m not a swimmer AND I’m out of my depth.

Fascinating material. I love it. But, honestly, I grasp only some of it and even then on just a surface level.

 

[Slade3200]

No. The most anyone can say is that time is a convenient measure of the expansion of the universe aka space and time. Time doesn’t really exist. It’s called the problem with time. Look it up.

The problem with time isn’t about whether it exists or not it’s whether it is fixed or relative…. If there is existence then there is time as time is a measure of existence

 

[ding]

Oh brother. I’ve tried. Let’s just say that I’m not a swimmer AND I’m out of my depth.

Fascinating material. I love it. But, honestly, I grasp only some of it and even then on just a surface level.

Einstein proved, through his theory of general relativity that time by itself was not an absolute quantity. Time and space are united in a precise mathematical way to form space-time. This space-time is an absolute measure and can be used to with mathematical precision too determine how different physical processes in different locations interact with each other.

Thus, the most anyone can say is that time is a convenient measure of the expansion of space-time or the universe because time and space are united in a precise mathematical way. Time outside of our universe has no meaning to us inside our space-time.