The "Virtuous" New Nazis.

[Coyote]

,,,,

No, sadly.

Nor at the violence in the Ukraine.

Nor the upsurge in violence in the Congo.

Nor the human rights violations against the Rohinga.

Seems there are those who's only interest is in the IP conflict. And that includes opponents and proponents. Outrage against Israel's actions, outrage against Palestinian actions and a complete ignoring when the same thing happens elsewhere. Is that anti-semitism? Then what it is it when Team Israel criticizes the Palestinians and ignores the same things happening elsewhere?

I think the anti-semitism label can become a tactic to avoid difficult conversations - like the racist label. It absolutely exists, but it gets overused.

Do you think Jeremy Corbyn is an anti Semite?

I don't know - I need to read more about him, I'm not that familiar with British politicians and I've not paid attention to the postings about him.

The OP is about what is happening in England.

The title states anti-semitism in rising in Europe. You've also brought in Middle East elements. Talking about antisemitism in Europe doesn't require close knowledge of specific politicians. Antisemitism is cultural.

I didn't mean to bring them in, I was dragged into it. So it's not my fault.

You're not entirely blameless.

I'm not saying I 'm not, but you are being somewhat selective in trying to keep this thread on an extremely narrow focus - allowing yourself to respond, but not allowing others. If the thread begins to get derailed that would be a point of stepping in and redirecting it, but your thread title invites a wider discussion then the Labor Party and anti-semitism in England.

 

[Mindful]

,,,,

Do you think Jeremy Corbyn is an anti Semite?

I don't know - I need to read more about him, I'm not that familiar with British politicians and I've not paid attention to the postings about him.

The OP is about what is happening in England.

The title states anti-semitism in rising in Europe. You've also brought in Middle East elements. Talking about antisemitism in Europe doesn't require close knowledge of specific politicians. Antisemitism is cultural.

I didn't mean to bring them in, I was dragged into it. So it's not my fault.

You're not entirely blameless.

I'm not saying I 'm not, but you are being somewhat selective in trying to keep this thread on an extremely narrow focus - allowing yourself to respond, but not allowing others. If the thread begins to get derailed that would be a point of stepping in and redirecting it, but your thread title invites a wider discussion then the Labor Party and anti-semitism in England.

Whatever you say. You're the boss.

I'm not up to a tutorial in life improvement skills today.

 

[Coyote]

From The Independent.

More maybe: later.

How it is possible to guarantee the complexion of another’s soul when our own are such mysteries to us, I don't know. Speaking generally, it is easier these days, anyway, to hate Israel rather than Jews, since you get the same frisson with none of the guilt. Besides, anti-Semitism need not be the worst of crimes. Depends on the variety you espouse. Not every anti-Semite is Joseph Goebbels. You can not like Jews much and be no great harm to them.

I think that it is likely that some people feel that way, hating Israel provides them a way of "legitimizing" their anti-semitism. However, it's also all too easy for that label to spill over and silence legitimate criticism of Israel's policies. For example - labeling the BDS movement as across the board anti-semitism.

I DO find it unsettling to see areas declaring themselves "free" of Israeli products...that speaks to a larger undercurrent that demonizes rather than seeks actual resolution. I also find that, as in the article I posted, that the BDS campaign ignores the complexities of the situation and ignores the Palestinians own role in the conflict.

 

[Coyote]

,,,,

I don't know - I need to read more about him, I'm not that familiar with British politicians and I've not paid attention to the postings about him.

The OP is about what is happening in England.

The title states anti-semitism in rising in Europe. You've also brought in Middle East elements. Talking about antisemitism in Europe doesn't require close knowledge of specific politicians. Antisemitism is cultural.

I didn't mean to bring them in, I was dragged into it. So it's not my fault.

You're not entirely blameless.

I'm not saying I 'm not, but you are being somewhat selective in trying to keep this thread on an extremely narrow focus - allowing yourself to respond, but not allowing others. If the thread begins to get derailed that would be a point of stepping in and redirecting it, but your thread title invites a wider discussion then the Labor Party and anti-semitism in England.

Whatever you say. You're the boss.

I'm not up to a tutorial in life improvement skills today.

I give up with you. I frankly can't figure out if you are a troll or genuinely interested in discussion

Have fun with your thread

 

[Dogmaphobe]

As I recall:

There's a new fashion sweeping Europe: to make one’s town or city what we might call ‘Zionistfrei’ — free of the products and culture of the Jewish state. Across the Continent, cities and towns are declaring themselves ‘Israel-freezones,’ insulating their citizens from Israeli produce and culture. It has ugly echoes of what happened 70 years ago.”

Yep. Leftist antisemitism is all ABOUT fashion. It is really little more than a conditioned response where people receive props from their fashionable little peeps if they hate Jews and condemnation if they don't. Of course, as odious creatures like Coyote and Tommy Taint have shown, in order to prop up their self-reinforcing sense of virtuousness, these sniveling things deny their antisemitism just as fiercely as they attack anything related to Jews. At least the right wing Nazis are fairly straight forward about it. The left wing variety that outnumbers them by a hundred to one plays this double-talking game where they justify all manner of atrocities against Jews up to and including their intentional murder, and immediately deny they are antisemitic.

 

[Mindful]

,,,,

The OP is about what is happening in England.

The title states anti-semitism in rising in Europe. You've also brought in Middle East elements. Talking about antisemitism in Europe doesn't require close knowledge of specific politicians. Antisemitism is cultural.

I didn't mean to bring them in, I was dragged into it. So it's not my fault.

You're not entirely blameless.

I'm not saying I 'm not, but you are being somewhat selective in trying to keep this thread on an extremely narrow focus - allowing yourself to respond, but not allowing others. If the thread begins to get derailed that would be a point of stepping in and redirecting it, but your thread title invites a wider discussion then the Labor Party and anti-semitism in England.

Whatever you say. You're the boss.

I'm not up to a tutorial in life improvement skills today.

I give up with you. I frankly can't figure out if you are a troll or genuinely interested in discussion

Have fun with your thread

I was wondering the same about you. You seem ....too....fixated.

And I can't get my head round your convoluted arguments. They don't make sense to me.

 

[Coyote]

Some posts have been moved to the Flame Zone - take the fight there. Enough disrupting threads upstairs.

 

[Dogmaphobe]

The True Believer - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This should be required reading for those who wish to understand some of the underpinnings to the phenomenon of leftist antisemitism brought forth in the opening thread. Without understanding this in terms of social psychology, people will never grasp why people see their hatred as a virtue and why they go to such extreme lengths towards trying to invert the dynamic between those who persecute and those resisting the persecution. Those who RESIST the hatred are the true haters in their Orwellian little world.

 

[Phoenall]

http://www.economist.com/blogs/democracyinamerica/2015/05/campus-politics

Are calls to boycott Israel anti-Semitic?

And student-government councils are increasingly embracing BDS resolutions at “dozens of college campuses across the country,” according to the New York Times. These students join peers on campuses in Canada and Europe, such as Britain, France. This has not resulted in any official changes in college policy, but the debates on campuses rage on, and they rage in circles. Critics of Israeli policy argue that the country denies basic human rights to millions of Palestinians on the West Bank and in Gaza, and sustains its occupation of Arab land with indiscriminate force. Israel’s defenders say that the Palestinians are at least partially to blame for the impasse in the peace process, and they add that the BDS campaign singles out the world’s lone Jewish state for criticism when plenty of other countries, including many of Israel’s Arab neighbours, mete out more flagrant injustices. This selectivity, say BDS critics, smacks of anti-Semitism.

Both sides are clinging to specious arguments. Claims that the BDS campaign is somehow misguided because its proponents are not troubled enough over the denial of the vote to 1.3 billion Chinese people or the sad state of women’s rights in Saudi Arabia are doubtful. There is no duty to fight all injustice in order to fight some. And it’s no defence of Israel to say that policies are just as bad or worse elsewhere. BDS supporters are right when they say that criticism of Israel can be delivered without anti-Semitic intent. If the two are really of a piece, then Ha’aretz, the Israeli daily preferred by Israel's leftist intelligentsia, is a hotbed of Jew hatred.

That said, calls for boycotts on some campuses have been tainted by clear expressions of anti-Jewish sentiment. At the University of California, Davis earlier this year, a successful boycott vote was followed by Muslims taunting Jewish students with chants of "allahu-akbar" and painting swastikas on a Jewish fraternity. At UCLA a Jewish student almost lost a seat on the student judicial board over concerns among fellow students that she was perhaps too "active in the Jewish community" to "maintain an unbiased view."

The BDS campaign also seems to prefer straw men to realistic positions. Take the demand that Israel retreat to its 1967 borders, before it seized the Sinai, the West Bank and the Golan Heights in a defensive six-day war. BDS fails to address the complexities of such a move. Hundreds of thousands of Israelis now live beyond this border. Some of these settlers will have to go, but it would be unreasonable to shove everyone out of homes they have lived in for decades. Advocates of a two-state solution have taken account of this complication with proposals to swap out some land in pre-1967 Israel for equal portions of land on the West Bank. But reasoned compromise is not part of the BDS discourse.

The same goes for the campaign’s demand that Israel submit to an unconditional right of return for descendants of Palestinians who fled or were expelled from their homes in the wake of the war of independence in 1948. Supporters must know that an influx of 5m Palestinians into pre-1967 Israel would put an end to any possibility of Israel continuing to be a Jewish and democratic state. This is the so-called one-state solution, a resolution to the Israeli-Palestinian impasse that is born of fantasy, not of pragmatism.

This is not to say that the BDS campaign is necessarily anti-Semitic. Opponents of the boycott need to make a better case than that. But to sanction Israeli companies and universities until Israel agrees to implode is not quite kosher, either. The boycott movement springs from a noble motive of advocating for a long-suffering underdog. But the positions BDS pushes are non-starters for Middle East peace negotiations. They can only inspire resentment and retrenchment, not constructive dialogue, among students on college campuses.​

Not if they are justified by truth and reality, but while the Israeli's are under attack for just protecting themselves from arab muslim violence the Boycott is another form of that terrorism. Are the arab muslims justified in targeting children with illegal weapons branded war crimes, or are they guilty of what the Jew haters claim the Israeli's are. Lets say the Jew haters win and Israel collapses where will the Jews go that is safe for them in the future, because the Jew haters will take strength from that victory and hound them to extinction. Then what will the world rally round the Jews and see too late that the blame lay with the arab muslims all along and start a boycott of arab muslims goods that would amount to nothing. The heavily armed islamic nations would attack the west and hope that the west is too weak to fight to win. Not just to fight until they have had enough but to fight to utterly destroy their opponents.

 

[Phoenall]

,,,,

Terrorism against Jews was going on long before the State of Israel.

Some interesting history here.

The Myth of Moslem-Jewish coexistence in Palestine

PS. Do you see any similar outrage directed to the latest onslaught on Aleppo?

No, sadly.

Nor at the violence in the Ukraine.

Nor the upsurge in violence in the Congo.

Nor the human rights violations against the Rohinga.

Seems there are those who's only interest is in the IP conflict. And that includes opponents and proponents. Outrage against Israel's actions, outrage against Palestinian actions and a complete ignoring when the same thing happens elsewhere. Is that anti-semitism? Then what it is it when Team Israel criticizes the Palestinians and ignores the same things happening elsewhere?

I think the anti-semitism label can become a tactic to avoid difficult conversations - like the racist label. It absolutely exists, but it gets overused.

Do you think Jeremy Corbyn is an anti Semite?

I don't know - I need to read more about him, I'm not that familiar with British politicians and I've not paid attention to the postings about him.

The OP is about what is happening in England.

The title states anti-semitism in rising in Europe. You've also brought in Middle East elements. Talking about antisemitism in Europe doesn't require close knowledge of specific politicians. Antisemitism is cultural.

As well as being political, nationalistic and collective punishment of minorities. All things you decry when allegedly done by Jews to muslims.

 

[Phoenall]

From The Independent.

More maybe: later.

How it is possible to guarantee the complexion of another’s soul when our own are such mysteries to us, I don't know. Speaking generally, it is easier these days, anyway, to hate Israel rather than Jews, since you get the same frisson with none of the guilt. Besides, anti-Semitism need not be the worst of crimes. Depends on the variety you espouse. Not every anti-Semite is Joseph Goebbels. You can not like Jews much and be no great harm to them.

I think that it is likely that some people feel that way, hating Israel provides them a way of "legitimizing" their anti-semitism. However, it's also all too easy for that label to spill over and silence legitimate criticism of Israel's policies. For example - labeling the BDS movement as across the board anti-semitism.

I DO find it unsettling to see areas declaring themselves "free" of Israeli products...that speaks to a larger undercurrent that demonizes rather than seeks actual resolution. I also find that, as in the article I posted, that the BDS campaign ignores the complexities of the situation and ignores the Palestinians own role in the conflict.

And in every instance of these areas free of Israel you find left wing governments rallying the neo marxists to band together and force the Jews out. As I asked where will the Jews go if the neo marxists/islamonazi's win. Where will they be safe from harm, violence, ethnic cleansing and genocide. Who will have the gonads to welcome them in and then face the hatred of the rest of the world. Are you willing to stand by and watch 12 million Jews be mass murdered because you supported one aspect of Jew hatred that appealed to your sensibilities. No doubt you would cry out that you did not mean for this to happen and that you wish you could turn the clock back. Then you would see that the blame lies with the arab muslims and their religion telling them they own the world.

 

[Tilly]

thanks for the new word---I had guessed that a TU QUO QUO--is a little fluffy dress worn by ballerinas

I would wear a little fluffy dress every single day if that was what it took to make the left liberal again.

This new Nazi left disturbs me to no end.

Ruth Smeeth: 'I've never seen anti-Semitism in Labour like this'

I have been watching it from afar, but I have been on discussion groups like this since the nineties, and my experience is that if a person defines themselves as British and left of center, pretty much all I have encountered were actively hostile to Jews.

I hope Phoenell reads that link.

I wanted to ask him what he thinks of Dianne Abbott.

She is the worst racist scum and most hated two faced person I have ever come across. She says she is a true socialist and then sends her child to public school because he would mix with white trash in the local secondary modern ones. This video shows her to be the real racist and she has never lived it down

She is such a freaking patronising, racist weirdo.

 

[Mindful]

I would wear a little fluffy dress every single day if that was what it took to make the left liberal again.

This new Nazi left disturbs me to no end.

Ruth Smeeth: 'I've never seen anti-Semitism in Labour like this'

I have been watching it from afar, but I have been on discussion groups like this since the nineties, and my experience is that if a person defines themselves as British and left of center, pretty much all I have encountered were actively hostile to Jews.

I hope Phoenell reads that link.

I wanted to ask him what he thinks of Dianne Abbott.

She is the worst racist scum and most hated two faced person I have ever come across. She says she is a true socialist and then sends her child to public school because he would mix with white trash in the local secondary modern ones. This video shows her to be the real racist and she has never lived it down

She is such freaking patronising, racist weirdo.

I haven't seen much of her lately.

Jeremy's always surrounded by flower power people.

 

[Tilly]

Ruth Smeeth: 'I've never seen anti-Semitism in Labour like this'

I have been watching it from afar, but I have been on discussion groups like this since the nineties, and my experience is that if a person defines themselves as British and left of center, pretty much all I have encountered were actively hostile to Jews.

I hope Phoenell reads that link.

I wanted to ask him what he thinks of Dianne Abbott.

She is the worst racist scum and most hated two faced person I have ever come across. She says she is a true socialist and then sends her child to public school because he would mix with white trash in the local secondary modern ones. This video shows her to be the real racist and she has never lived it down

She is such freaking patronising, racist weirdo.

I haven't seen much of her lately.

Jeremy's always surrounded by flower power people.

She has several jobs in what barely passes for a shadow cabinet, but haven't seen much of her lately. I wonder if Jeremy and Diane have rekindled their romance?

 

[Tilly]

The True Believer - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This should be required reading for those who wish to understand some of the underpinnings to the phenomenon of leftist antisemitism brought forth in the opening thread. Without understanding this in terms of social psychology, people will never grasp why people see their hatred as a virtue and why they go to such extreme lengths towards trying to invert the dynamic between those who persecute and those resisting the persecution. Those who RESIST the hatred are the true haters in their Orwellian little world.

"...A variety of what Hoffer terms "misfits" are also found in mass movements. Examples include "chronically bored," the physically disabled or perpetually ill, the talentless, and criminals or "sinners." In all cases, Hoffer argues, these people feel as if their individual lives are meaningless and worthless.[7]..."

Hmmm. Interesting

 

[Tilly]

It's not going away:

Jeremy Corbyn hit with formal anti-Semitism complaint ahead of Labour leadership election result
"...
The CAA has written to deputy leader Tom Watson urging him to raise the issue with Labour’s ruling national executive committee.

The letter accuses Mr Corbyn of “committing acts that are grossly detrimental to the party, namely characterising Jewish people as dissembling and dishonest in their reporting of anti-Semitism, and by using the influence and prestige of his office to disseminate and normalise that lie”.

It goes on to list a series of incidents where it says Mr Corbyn and his supporters dismissed allegations of anti-Semitism..."

Jeremy Corbyn hit with formal anti-Semitism complaint ahead of Labour conference

 

[Tilly]

Seriously? Lol

Labour MP Naz Shah says did not recognise 'anti-Semitism as racism' in Facebook outburst
Bradford West MP was suspended after she said Jews should be removed from Israel and moved to the US.

• 
  
  By Lewis DeanJuly 18, 2016 14:43 BST

Embed Feed
In a related video: John McDonnell says he wants to restore the reputation of the Labour Party amid an anti-Semitism rowIBTimes UK
Recently reinstated Labour MP Naz Shah has said that she didn't understand anti-Semitism was a form of racism when she compared Israel with Nazi Germany, and said that Jews there should be removed and sent to the US.

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/labour-mp-...nti-semitism-racism-facebook-outburst-1571212

 

[Dogmaphobe]

Antisemitism is cultural.

Not necessarily. Since the traditional antisemitic canards rely on spinning Jews as rich and powerful, manipulative and sneaky, and with undue power over others, it appeals to worthless individuals of all stripes looking for a convenient scapegoat for all their own shortcomings. The disgruntled, the paranoid schizophrenics, those suffering from a Joan of Ark complex -- all concentrate their attention on Jews as there is already such a ready-made wealth of material out there for them to utilize.

As far as culture is concerned, it is often less a matter of culture than a mere PART of the culture. Leftists are increasingly hostile to Jews because it is fashionable and they are seeking approval from other leftists. The United states, as a whole, is not antisemitic, but levels of antisemitism run very high in the black community, fast increasing portions of the left, and a small vestige of the paleocon and white supremacist portion of the right. Since Europe is dominated by leftist politics, the levels of antisemitism run much higher.

 

[Ravi]

Arc.

 

[irosie91]

Antisemitism is cultural.

Not necessarily. Since the traditional antisemitic canards rely on spinning Jews as rich and powerful, manipulative and sneaky, and with undue power over others, it appeals to worthless individuals of all stripes looking for a convenient scapegoat for all their own shortcomings. The disgruntled, the paranoid schizophrenics, those suffering from a Joan of Ark complex -- all concentrate their attention on Jews as there is already such a ready-made wealth of material out there for them to utilize.

As far as culture is concerned, it is often less a matter of culture than a mere PART of the culture. Leftists are increasingly hostile to Jews because it is fashionable and they are seeking approval from other leftists. The United states, as a whole, is not antisemitic, but levels of antisemitism run very high in the black community, fast increasing portions of the left, and a small vestige of the paleocon and white supremacist portion of the right. Since Europe is dominated by leftist politics, the levels of antisemitism run much higher.

SO TRUE----FASHION-----when I was a kid-----the FASHION was--------"""western colonialism as the root of ALL EVIL----from acne to hemorrhoids........"